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Old 2009-05-24, 20:01   Link #181
Phenomenal
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
It seem you have not heard no one fights luffy serious . Even after croc said so in manga , even after moria was piss of that OZ got beat nope they hold back all the time. Damn luffy is not even my Fav OP char but i dont like people making out everything he done so far has been luck . Plus luck it part of you are any way .
So you say that Luffy's opponents [Moria and Crocodile] don't fight him seriously and then go on to say you don't like it when people claim everything he has done was by luck?

That's a contradiction.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:05   Link #182
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Not like it matters he has nothing left no showdows , 2 crew mates and one them can't even fight . Moria cool and all but he need times for his fights in a one fight out in open he not that great right now.
Look at my post above where you just posted Moria was holding back against Luffy and then claim he has nothing left.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:06   Link #183
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I would say Rob Lucci fought Luffy seriously o_O

Anyways...concerning the VAs, although i believe that not all VAs r stronger than Luffy, we don't exactly know how strong VAs actually are, and whos to say that the rest of them are not as strong/if not stronger than Garp? (Who is imo stronger than luffy at this stage)
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:07   Link #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
So you say that Luffy's opponents [Moria and Crocodile] don't fight him seriously and then go on to say you don't like it when people claim everything he has done was by luck?

That's a contradiction.
NOT really first part of post was a joke. luffy got his ass kick by croc 2 times . the 3rd time luck was no longer a factor.

Kind hard get joke across online.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:11   Link #185
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Nico Robin saving Luffy was luck.^^
I missed your jokes btw.....
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:14   Link #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andy View Post
There are shonen laws and that one of them . Until Oda comes out and say all VA are stronger than luffy i am going stick with what i know has happen in every manga i read so far . For eg if there 50 VA 30 stronger than luffy and 20 weaker . In fact another shonen law luffy main char he gets random power up to beat VA.
What Shonen Law are you talking about? You haven't disproved anything I have said so far. Really now, all I'm saying is that we don't know exactly how strong the VA's are, so we can't properly compare them to Luffy. You're trying to use trends from other Shonens and apply it to One Piece, but it doesn't always work that way here, especially since Oda does deviate from the typical Shonen norms in many aspects.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2009-05-24 at 22:11.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:26   Link #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kafriel View Post
Forum seems to have turned into a quote-fest,so guess I'll pitch in^^
Thats what it spouse to be.

Quote:
Because BB is a pirate, and pirates act on whims.
Again, Blackbeard didn't even know Luffy was at Impel Down starting trouble IIRC, that leads me to think Blackbeard went to Impel Down for another reason (that does not include Luffy, OH NO! BUT EVERYTHING IS ABOUT THE MAIN CHARACTER! WHAT A SHOCKER GASP GASP!?!) I don't see Blackbeard dropping his plans, to help Luffy out, saving a guy he beat up in the 1st place.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-05-24 at 20:40.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:30   Link #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
You're one to talk, being that you have atrocious grammar and spelling.



What Shonen Law are you talking about? You haven't disproved anything I have said so far. Really now, all I'm saying is that we don't know exactly how strong the VA's are, so we can't properly compare them to Luffy. You're trying to use trends from other Shonens and apply it to One Piece, but it doesn't always work that way here, especially since Oda does deviate from the typical Shonen norms in many aspects.
Where has Oda gone from normal shonen, when it comes to how fights are set up. Or put it another way, you have not disproved anything i have said either . I am not going to put IMHO at the end of every post i make. We don't how strong VA are and you need facts to say Luffy can compare to them. I am saying in every shonen there is a tier list if the are 50 VA on the list luffy will be stronger than some . If you think i need facts to say that ,well just leave it at that

Last edited by andy; 2009-05-24 at 20:41.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:32   Link #189
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Where has Oda gone from normal shonen, when it comes to how fights are set up.
What exactly are you trying to ask/tell me here? You're going to have to elaborate a little for me please.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:36   Link #190
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I think he's asking where has Oda gone from the standard Shonen ways
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:42   Link #191
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Where has Oda gone from normal shonen, when it comes to how fights are set up. Or put it another way, you have not disproved anything i have said either . I am not going to put IMHO at end of every post i do .
If you haven't noticed, I'm not trying to disprove anything here. I'm just stating that it's a fact as of now that nothing is known about the combat abilities of the VA's, so therefore we can't say if they're stronger or weaker in comparison to Luffy. This cannot be argued with until Oda unveils what they can do in battle.
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Last edited by Blackbeard D. Kuma; 2009-05-24 at 20:57.
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Old 2009-05-24, 20:58   Link #192
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@Andy - To continue from my previous post,

The VA's are not like the admirals or emperors, where we know for certain that Luffy is not as strong as them even without seeing them fight. Oda has set up the admirals and emperors to be in the top-tier of the One Piece universe, so it is obvious that Luffy is currently weaker than them at this point (the story is only a little past half way). We can say that with a certainty. The VA's however (with the exception of Garp possibly), are not in the same tier as the aforementioned monsters, so it is kind of difficult to say for certain that they are stronger or weaker than Luffy. We don't know how big of a gap there is between them and the top-tiers.
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Old 2009-05-24, 23:19   Link #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Oda does deviate from the typical Shonen norms in many aspects.
I think not.
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Old 2009-05-25, 03:11   Link #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
What ever happens happens, I hope for the results to be good. Heck Luffy is still on level 4 of Impel Down, has yet to beat Magellan.
I'd say a battle against Magellan would turn out the same way as it did last time. Personally, I think that Magellan will be fighting Blackbeard as he'll be seeing him as the greatest threat (Shichibukai gone rogue or Luffy? My priority would be the Shichibukai.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
For Luffy to always get the spot light and up stage characters who really don't get there long over due shine, is the crime.
Ironically you contradict yourself by replying to another quote with this:

"I don't think you where disappoint when Whitebeard met up with shanks or when the Blackbeard vs Ace happened where Luffy was no where to be found. Or when Zoro saved Luffy's ass at Thiller Bark. "


So Luffy steals the spotlight 'every time' huh?

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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Ravaged Impel Down =/= War.
And war =/= the only way to obtain the 'right' to save Ace.

Luffy went to save Ace, going to the ultimate point of no return for pirates without any help, faced capture and torment and yet still did not give up on saving his brother. I'd say that he damn well earned to save Ace.

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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
I don't think you where disappoint when Whitebeard met up with shanks or when the Blackbeard vs Ace happened where Luffy was no where to be found. Or when Zoro saved Luffy's ass at Thiller Bark. Point is, Luffy don't have to do everything, and be involved in everything to make it good.
Nope. That was good stuff indeed. And I agree Luffy does not have to do everything, however in this case Whitebeard saving Ace and Luffy nowhere to be found would render all his efforts in Impel Down invalid, basically making the entire Impel Down arc irrelevant. I'd like to see his efforts to invade the one place Pirates avoid at all costs rewarded.

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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Infact, Lets discuss Luffy making his way out of Impel Down Fun house, before we discuss him being able to pull a Solid Snake on us and save Ace.
I say Blackbeard is going to be fighting Magellan, making an opening for Luffy & Co. to get past. They may or may not end up fighting Shiryuu after that.
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Last edited by Keroko; 2009-05-25 at 04:32.
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Old 2009-05-25, 11:22   Link #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
If you haven't noticed, I'm not trying to disprove anything here. I'm just stating that it's a fact as of now that nothing is known about the combat abilities of the VA's, so therefore we can't say if they're stronger or weaker in comparison to Luffy. This cannot be argued with until Oda unveils what they can do in battle.
One question, What exactly is the so call Shonen Law andy is mentioning? I'm to lazy to go look at it, but, for the record, there is no such thing as "Shonen Laws" there is however the writing style and plot set-up which is what constitute a Shonen, but this doesn’t mean that the author can't deviate from those norms (just like Pirate of the Caribbean, "the code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules").

There are a lot of those so called Shonen Laws that are broken depending on the work, Heck We have Shonen were the principal character dies, or cases were they fail to achieve his goal. and in some cases, The Principal character is the villain.
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Old 2009-05-25, 15:04   Link #196
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
I think not.
Phenomenal, for future reference, it is proper and courteous to give some reasoning as to why you disagree with someone .

Here a few examples of what I meant by Oda deviating from Shonen norms:

1) There are never any training arcs to show how the protagonists get stronger.

2) Future enemies are not always stronger than the ones that preceded them (i.e. Foxy would lose badly to Crocodile or Enel). There are also quite a few Rock/Paper/Scissors match ups in this series.

3) In a lot of other shonens, the beasts are never in the top-tier. It is pretty much the small, sleek looking, serious, intelligent guys that always take the top spots. In One Piece, we have giants like Kuma, Blackbeard, and Whitebeard, that would be able to take out pretty much anyone that stands in their way. Moreover, Kuma and Blackbeard are actually very intelligent, which is absolutely great since a lot of the beasts in other shonens are portrayed as being dumb, incompetent, mindless brutes.

4) Oda also blends in humorous characteristics into his top-tier fighters, like Kizaru being goofy, Garp acting like a Kid, Shanks and Whitebeard drinking too much, the list goes on and on. It's nice to see that his cast of characters is diverse, in terms of design and personality.

This is why I greatly enjoy One Piece, because it is eccentric .
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Old 2009-05-25, 15:46   Link #197
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[QUOTE=Blackbeard D. Kuma;2416602][B]Phenomenal[/B\
4) Oda also blends in humorous characteristics into his top-tier fighters, like Kizaru being goofy, Garp acting like a Kid, Shanks and Whitebeard drinking too much, the list goes on and on. It's nice to see that his cast of characters is diverse, QUOTE]


kizaru i think its one of the best charcters in one piece,so funny and apathetic and when he wants he is really strong,he took out the 4 supernovas together in like 10 seconds...
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Old 2009-05-25, 16:04   Link #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
1) There are never any training arcs to show how the protagonists get stronger.
Random power-ups sounds like Shonen to me.

Quote:
2) Future enemies are not always stronger than the ones that preceded them (i.e. Foxy would lose badly to Crocodile or Enel). There are also quite a few Rock/Paper/Scissors match ups in this series.
You ever seen Yugioh? Pegasus could practically waste any duelist [other than Yugi] after him.

Quote:
3) In a lot of other shonens, the beasts are never in the top-tier. It is pretty much the small, sleek looking, serious, intelligent guys that always take the top spots. In One Piece, we have giants like Kuma, Blackbeard, and Whitebeard, that would be able to take out pretty much anyone that stands in their way. Moreover, Kuma and Blackbeard are actually very intelligent, which is absolutely great since a lot of the beasts in other shonens are portrayed as being dumb, incompetent, mindless brutes.
Tugoro from Yu Yu Hakushou's true form was a huge beast and he was intelligent.

Quote:
4) Oda also blends in humorous characteristics into his top-tier fighters, like Kizaru being goofy, Garp acting like a Kid, Shanks and Whitebeard drinking too much, the list goes on and on. It's nice to see that his cast of characters is diverse, in terms of design and personality.
Bleach does this better than anyone.^^
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Old 2009-05-25, 16:16   Link #199
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Random power-ups sounds like Shonen to me.
Of course there have to be power-ups. That's a given considering that this is a Shonen. But I wasn't talking about power-ups, I was talking about training arcs, which One Piece doesn't have, and quite frankly I think that's a good thing since training arcs can be very boring and cliche.

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
You ever seen Yugioh? Pegasus could practically waste any duelist [other than Yugi] after him.
I've seen a bit of it. Mind you that I never said that Oda is the only one who deviates from Shonen norms.

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Tugoro from Yu Yu Hakushou's true form was a huge beast and he was intelligent.
I've seen the whole series, and he is far from top-tier. He was considered to be a B+ class demon by the elites. Guys like Sensui and Yomi would crush him effortlessly, and guess what, they fit into the typical small, sleek, serious, intelligent archetype found in many other shonens.
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Old 2009-05-25, 16:32   Link #200
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Of course there have to be power-ups. That's a given considering that this is a Shonen. But I wasn't talking about power-ups, I was talking about training arcs, which One Piece doesn't have, and quite frankly I think that's a good thing since training arcs can be very boring and cliche.
Yeah but so are random power-ups, it still is a cliche.

Quote:
I've seen a bit of it. Mind you that I never said that Oda is the only one who deviates from Shonen norms.
I know, just letting you know nothing is new under the sun concerning this topic..

Quote:
I've seen the whole series, and he is far from top-tier. He was considered to be a B+ class demon by the elites. Guys like Sensui and Yomi would crush him effortlessly, and guess what, they fit into the typical small, sleek, serious, intelligent archetype found in many other shonens.
That's right, I hated the arcs passed the dark tournament, so I mentioned Toguro because I liked the Dark Tournament the best and felt he was the only final villain of the series. YYH became a weak series after that saga I believe.

Rurouni Kenshin's Onji the destroyer was a beast and so was the guy that Kenshin's Master had to fight. These were Shishio's top tier people.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-05-25 at 16:58.
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