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Old 2009-05-26, 13:11   Link #221
Rurik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
If that happens, Then thats bad story telling on Odas part, maybe I should remind him in an SBS about Somkers after he caught that 50,000,000 bounty head about gaining rank to get to go New World to defeat the Straw Hat Pirates.
It doesn’t have to be necessary bad writing, in fact, it could be good writing in some cases, To have a healthy story it is necessary to know when to not continue developing a character that have already played their part. Sometimes trying to use a character like this would only seem as the Series is dragging itself without a real necessity.

I have read a lot of Shonen in the past 6 Years, and watch a lot of Anime based on Shonen the past 15 Years to think that Smoker could mostly be introduced here and there (only for information purposes or gving us follow up on him, like we have already seen so far). this is more what we could expect from this character, and actually not falling into bad Writing.

Either way is 50/50, I just don’t see smoker having an important impact on any of the subsequent plots.
IMO, the main part for Smoker was to introduced us to Logia types and how powerful they can be.
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Old 2009-05-26, 14:39   Link #222
junte86
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No if smoker is forgoteen it will be a bad writing.

and since you talked about your experience with shonen manga let me just say this those things dont count and in sheer expereicne I doubt you can calim such thing with mere 6(15 considering anime) years of experience.
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Old 2009-05-26, 15:50   Link #223
Rurik
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Originally Posted by junte86 View Post
No if smoker is forgoteen it will be a bad writing.

and since you talked about your experience with shonen manga let me just say this those things dont count and in sheer expereicne I doubt you can calim such thing with mere 6(15 considering anime) years of experience.
Sorry, but if you read my post, I didn’t say that with my Shonen reading Experience I could claim if its going to be Bad writing or not, I just mentioned that based on what I read, I have seen similar events where Characters just like smoker get that treatment without falling into been Bad writing.

Quote:
I have read a lot of Shonen in the past 6 Years, and watch a lot of Anime based on Shonen the past 15 Years to think that Smoker could mostly be introduced here and there (only for information purposes or giving us follow up on him, like we have already seen so far). this is more what we could expect from this character, and actually not falling into bad Writing.
Hope this gets clear to you….

Once you read a good few Shonen and you understand certain work habits, once you read good pieces of literature, it help you discern good from bad writing, once you read different types of genres, it helps you see the reach a fantastical world can have, and the norms that they work under. I’m not claiming I’m a god about the subject or no one knows better than I do, I’m just talking about based on what I have seen so far. Heck, You can use even Seinen to uderstand something as simple as Haki, like Lone Wolf and Cub for example.

Going back to the Smoker thing, yes, it is not going to be Bad writing giving Im not speaking about Not presenting him anymore in the series (and even like that, he is not that important to be giving him a 30 chapter arc).

Read my post, and Read Master Mold post, We are talking about Character development, making Smoker go after the Strawhat, dedicate various chapter into doing that, Create a new back-story for smoker, making him go against a group of people that’s should be fighting stronger foes that what smoker could offer, converting Smoker into an likeable character into a villain, subsequently making Smoker failing his goal into capturing Strawhats (again, redundancy) and ultimately, having at hand an arc that lacked excitement and most importantly, lack of growth of the principal character, rather than go the way that I was mentioning, and that is been presented in a couple of pages like Oda has been doing so far.
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Old 2009-05-26, 17:19   Link #224
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But you simply can't have it all...

Currently with this war and upcoming battle(s) what will be greatest battle of current generation of One piece residents and pointing that almost every major player from all factions are partaking this war it will be very difficult to see every point of view and every fraction of battle that will roam.

Oda have enough potential material for this war that it can take to 2011 before we even GET to the New world with Strawhat crew and still every chapter could be rich and full of content and raging battles.

Smoker is great charecter, he is charismatic and intresting person, definatly not your average marine, not to mention about Tashigi who is intersting in her own way and her strange relation ship with Zoro is much anticipated events.

But even though you would want, or you seem to INSIST that Oda should give some focus on Smoker on this upcoming battle and what he will do against Luffy I personally think we have to leave Smoker/Luffy encounters to New World.

Smoker could achieve some fame and get promoted to new ranks, perhaps even as Vice admiral if he plays his cards right on this battle, then he would have both authority and freedom to pursue Luffy with full force on New World.

I too want to see massive battles of this war but I wont really cry if Oda focuses only Luffy and other players with him on this war either because I have learned to trust Oda and I believe that he will deliver, I read about 20 mangas and many more finished but One piece is definatly most anticipated series for me.
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Old 2009-05-26, 17:23   Link #225
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Originally Posted by Prestige View Post
But you simply can't have it all....
I supposse you are quoting Master Mold, right?
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Old 2009-05-26, 18:17   Link #226
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Originally Posted by Wolcik View Post
Yay XD
and I keep on enjoying my weekly (sometimes held) dose of OP
True...true...

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Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
Are you all forgetting Luffy already lost in Impel Down? I'm not surprised, since the loss to Magellan turned out to be utterly meaningless.

In truth, Luffy's strength wasn't even necessary for what is happening. Ivankov could have raided the lower levels and started releasing the most powerful prisoners without him.

What bothers me is that lately Luffy has been struggling and losing fight after fight, and yet by pure luck his role is greatly improving in that time and he continues to move up into higher weight classes.

It feels like he is being "forced" into his current role because he is the main character, rather than earning it.

Losing, name-dropping your dad, and getting help from people who really didn't need you... is not earning it.

By the way I'm a big fan of Luffy myself, which is part of why I'm bothered by this. A loss should not be played off like it was nothing. Luffy should earn his role by improving, rather than moving up by luck/name.
I believe I wouldn't really care whether or not Luffy actually becomes stronger with regards to raw potential to beat down an opponent. Even if Luffy were to learn no new moves whatsoever from here on, I believe that he could still defeat more than 70% of the characters in Naruto, about 90% of Bleach, and still remain conscious...just before Minato, Itachi, Yoruichi, Byakuya, and Geta-Boshi arrive, and murderify him into beyond-hell-ville, lol

As things stand, Luffy, if you don't compare him to the most absolutely powerful characters in One Piece, is extremely potent in his own right, and with his current combat proficiency, I believe he really IS worth every cent of his B$ 300m bounty.

What I don't really like is how even though he keeps on being shown that he isn't yet ready for the upper tier, he never shows a constant, believable serious side. I would like to see a change...some visible effects on his composure. I love seeing Zoro's experiences smooth him out, and define his character, through drive, and constant determination, and serious, thoughtful meditation on his experiences (maybe not so explicitly shown every time, but they are there), he realizes his limits, and pushes to free himself by realizing that he is still weak, compared to the topmost rungs, and he needs to climb higher.

I see NOTHING like that from Luffy. Period. At every stage, if he gets knocked down, he shows a reflective side for about two pages, and then throws it off, and returns to his careless norm. I think it's WAY too unrealistic.

Luffy is STRONG. But his current challenges do require some more 'Oomph', I know, but I love seeing him anyway. Just that his lack of real soul deep learning-from-his-experiences really turn me off. I like to see character development and emotional growth. I like seeing it done well. Done Beautifully.

Get it right, please.
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Old 2009-05-26, 18:17   Link #227
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestige View Post
But you simply can't have it all....
Even I am confident in Oda that he can do this.^^
Lets not limit his skills just yet.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-05-26 at 19:29.
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Old 2009-05-26, 19:10   Link #228
andy
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Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
True...true...



I believe I wouldn't really care whether or not Luffy actually becomes stronger with regards to raw potential to beat down an opponent. Even if Luffy were to learn no new moves whatsoever from here on, I believe that he could still defeat more than 70% of the characters in Naruto, about 90% of Bleach, and still remain conscious...just before Minato, Itachi, Yoruichi, Byakuya, and Geta-Boshi arrive, and murderify him into beyond-hell-ville, lol

As things stand, Luffy, if you don't compare him to the most absolutely powerful characters in One Piece, is extremely potent in his own right, and with his current combat proficiency, I believe he really IS worth every cent of his B$ 300m bounty.

What I don't really like is how even though he keeps on being shown that he isn't yet ready for the upper tier, he never shows a constant, believable serious side. I would like to see a change...some visible effects on his composure. I love seeing Zoro's experiences smooth him out, and define his character, through drive, and constant determination, and serious, thoughtful meditation on his experiences (maybe not so explicitly shown every time, but they are there), he realizes his limits, and pushes to free himself by realizing that he is still weak, compared to the topmost rungs, and he needs to climb higher.

I see NOTHING like that from Luffy. Period. At every stage, if he gets knocked down, he shows a reflective side for about two pages, and then throws it off, and returns to his careless norm. I think it's WAY too unrealistic.

Luffy is STRONG. But his current challenges do require some more 'Oomph', I know, but I love seeing him anyway. Just that his lack of real soul deep learning-from-his-experiences really turn me off. I like to see character development and emotional growth. I like seeing it done well. Done Beautifully.

Get it right, please.
This is never going to happen , Luffy being careless is part of him .When luffy gets beat down, he gets right back up and tries again that just who he. Luffy know he is weak compare to top dogs just do not expect him to get all emo after he lost a fight .

As for smoker i expect we are going to see him again but it going to take a while maybe when luffy is about half way threw the new world . When we see him again luffy will be able to fight him , i think smoker is going to be like how Grap was for roger.
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Old 2009-05-26, 22:15   Link #229
Azncoke123
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Is chapter 544 coming out this week?
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Old 2009-05-27, 00:39   Link #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rurik View Post
It doesn’t have to be necessary bad writing, in fact, it could be good writing in some cases, To have a healthy story it is necessary to know when to not continue developing a character that have already played their part. Sometimes trying to use a character like this would only seem as the Series is dragging itself without a real necessity.

I have read a lot of Shonen in the past 6 Years, and watch a lot of Anime based on Shonen the past 15 Years to think that Smoker could mostly be introduced here and there (only for information purposes or gving us follow up on him, like we have already seen so far). this is more what we could expect from this character, and actually not falling into bad Writing.
Then Oda having Smoker make those statements, where meaningless thus bad writing. Not to mention Smoker and his underling have not played there part in the story yet.

Quote:
Either way is 50/50, I just don’t see smoker having an important impact on any of the subsequent plots.
Smoker is a good guy in the One Piece would where there are many corrupt MHQ and World Government officials. Not to mention he corners the future Pirate King here and there. There are many ways for Smoker to have important impact in this long story.

Quote:
IMO, the main part for Smoker was to introduced us to Logia types and how powerful they can be.
If that was the case, Then Smoker would have stayed in Rough Town.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Prestige
But you simply can't have it all...
Whats the matter, not confident in your favorite story teller?
If other story tellers can do it, why NOT Oda?

Not to mention, I would start a [MANGA] what went wrong in One Piece thread?
if this war is fail.
Quote:
Currently with this war and upcoming battle(s) what will be greatest battle of current generation of One piece residents and pointing that almost every major player from all factions are partaking this war it will be very difficult to see every point of view and every fraction of battle that will roam.
Not impossible.

Quote:
Oda have enough potential material for this war that it can take to 2011 before we even GET to the New world with Strawhat crew and still every chapter could be rich and full of content and raging battles.
That does not sound like a bad thing.

Quote:
Smoker is great charecter, he is charismatic and intresting person, definatly not your average marine, not to mention about Tashigi who is intersting in her own way and her strange relation ship with Zoro is much anticipated events.

But even though you would want, or you seem to INSIST that Oda should give some focus on Smoker on this upcoming battle and what he will do against Luffy I personally think we have to leave Smoker/Luffy encounters to New World.
Yes, Smoker should get his face time in this upcoming battle (doing something special and gaining rank) and later down the line when he gains the rank he needs to gain passage to the New World etc. I don't think Ive said Smoker should do X against Luffy in this War for at this point in time, we don't even know If Luffy will be in this event.

Quote:
Smoker could achieve some fame and get promoted to new ranks, perhaps even as Vice admiral if he plays his cards right on this battle, then he would have both authority and freedom to pursue Luffy with full force on New World.
That's what I'm hoping for.

Quote:
I too want to see massive battles of this war but I wont really cry if Oda focuses only Luffy and other players with him on this war either because I have learned to trust Oda and I believe that he will deliver, I read about 20 mangas and many more finished but One piece is definatly most anticipated series for me.
I would be pissed off if Oda chooses to only focus on Luffy and the guys with him and not the long awaited meat and potatoes in this war.

Quote:
Originally Posted by andy
This is never going to happen , Luffy being careless is part of him.When luffy gets beat down, he gets right back up and tries again that just who he. Luffy know he is weak compare to top dogs just do not expect him to get all emo after he lost a fight .
I don't expect Luffy to get Emo, I expect Luffy to get stronger, and for this Lucky streak that gets Luffy higher and tougher places to end.

Quote:
As for smoker i expect we are going to see him again but it going to take a while maybe when luffy is about half way threw the new world . When we see him again luffy will be able to fight him , i think smoker is going to be like how Grap was for roger.
I agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Azncoke123
Is chapter 544 coming out this week?
It should, and once it does, I will abandon this thread.

Last edited by Master Mold; 2009-05-27 at 01:16. Reason: Tick tock Tick tock Tick tock just a few more hours and I woun't have any more time to play with you guys.
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Old 2009-05-27, 02:25   Link #231
james0246
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Wow, full spoilers out for Chapter 544 (Aohige even has some page translations up). Lots of fun with many of our predictions highlighted...
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Old 2009-05-27, 02:29   Link #232
andy
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yeah seem like magellan is fighting BB. can't wait until the full chapter is out .
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Old 2009-05-27, 07:17   Link #233
holypanl
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
This is never going to happen , Luffy being careless is part of him .When luffy gets beat down, he gets right back up and tries again that just who he. Luffy know he is weak compare to top dogs just do not expect him to get all emo after he lost a fight .

As for smoker i expect we are going to see him again but it going to take a while maybe when luffy is about half way threw the new world . When we see him again luffy will be able to fight him , i think smoker is going to be like how Grap was for roger.
This is an inside (or outside, depending on where you live) joke:

Son, I heard you speaking just now, and...based on what you said, I believe there is only one reasonable conclusion I can draw: You must be American.

Listen: I don't think I ever even implied that he should get 'emo' even once in my post. I quoted Zoro as an example of a character whose development I like to see. Is Zoro 'emo'?

And I really don't like how Blackbeard just suddenly appeared inside of the prison. Not only that, but I believe that Shiryuu's character design is disappointing.

I would have preferred if it were the other way around, and Magellan were the one who was locked up, and Shiryuu were managing the prison. I think that Magellan's current design, with the SS-Militaristic motif is more appealing in context. Now THAT is a character who I would expect to be locked up at the bottom of the sea for mercilessly killing his own staff.

Shiryuu looks like an imbecile, for lack of a better word.

I, of course, am at the edge of my seat, waiting for the inevitable fight between the three sides to start next week, but I also keep in mind that Oda had better have a good enough explanation for Blackbeard having been shown at Marine Headquarters dining only a short while ago, and then suddenly upping and popping up at Impel Down for no reason whatsoever.

1. He didn't even know Luffy was Ace's brother, so it's not like he came on an extermination mission.

2. Ace was scheduled to leave the prison, so it's not like he was coming to finish Ace off, for whatever reason.

3. He is supposed to be at Marine HQ right now, or he is liable to lose his Shichibukai title and autonomy. So he shouldn't have left for no reason just to come storm a prison of his (formal) allies, the World Government.

I mean: it's not like One Piece was always this illogical. Up to the end of Thriller Bark, there were confines for how far the unrealism would extend. You knew, for example, during the CP9 arc, that a gun could actually kill people in One Piece if they were shot.

So when Iceberg and Nico Robin were in the mansion and Nico pulled out the six guns, it had dramatic effect, since you knew that she could actually effect a change in the plot with them.

But take the bounty hunters on Shabondy Archipelago: they had pretty large rifles, I assume that bounty hunters, living at the border of the New World, where experienced rookies land everyday, they would have some know-how under their belts.

I didn't expect to see them holding out rifles in broad daylight and charging their targets (who, by the way, are mainly wanted criminals with bounty money on their heads) in plain view. I thought they would be wearing black, and would set traps, and ambush the pirates with seastone, and show some serious mindsets about knowing that they were dealing with dangerous people and that in a single breath they could be snuffed out, and their lives would be finished.

What about bounty hunters hiding out in the huge mangroves on the Archipelago, and using sniper rifles? Actually shooting pirates with well aimed, cold, calculated head shots, and taking them out with skill, and silence?

Now THAT would have been cool. That way pirates would have been hiding in corners of the isle, fearing that at any time they could just pass out, and not even know that a fearsome bounty hunter was after them, and had released a knockout-gas grenade into their camp, until they wake up in a Marine Prison cell, with seastone handcuffs on their wrists, and are being told that they are to be transported to Enies Lobby the next morning at O-eight-hundred by special forces form the Cyppher Pol Eight.

But nope. Bounty hunters were made out to be decrepit, backward cretins, who chose a career that would obvious endanger their lives, yet didn't prepare themselves to tackle the mean, vicious criminals they'd be hunting.

Yea. That makes sense. Seriously. I mean: I'm gonna be a Bounty Hunter! I gots me my trusty rifle, and I can just blast these Devil Fruit powered criminals sky high, since they really aren't super-powered human beings who can probably rip me to shreds without even touching me. In fact, even for those who don't have Devil fruit powers, I can still blast me some head in broad daylight, because it's not like there's a possibility that, I dunno...maybe a lot of them are better at shooting than me...and that some of them are so incredibly skillful, and their reflexes are so well honed that they could probably even snipe me out before I see them.

Hmmm...well, let's go! Watch out pirates! Here I come!

...how DUMB.
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First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Last edited by holypanl; 2009-05-27 at 18:14.
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Old 2009-05-27, 08:25   Link #234
Rurik
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Then Oda having Smoker make those statements, where meaningless thus bad writing. Not to mention Smoker and his underling have not played there part in the story yet.
My point is that when you introduce constantly so many character is not really good to be going back with character that already played their part in the story, You can consider it bad writing because you want the author to follow up an develop a Character that already played his part, and if we go by what you want, then EVERY single manga out there has bad writing, here and there we have character that are introduce to be later disposed and never heard of after they are used. That’s not bad writing, that just how a series that goes on for years need to do.

Of course, note that my opinion here is simply that I dont expect for further character development on Smoker, and I don't think that doing so is Bad writing (neither giving him more character development).

Quote:
If that was the case, Then Smoker would have stayed in Rough Town.
That’s why I said Introduced us and show us how powerful they can be, Introduce us as in Rough town (I tought the name was Logue town)... how powerful they can be when he squared off against ACE, to follow up on ACE when he took down the fleet.
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Old 2009-05-27, 09:15   Link #235
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I'm not sure what's the fuss with Smoker, but Oda knows when to bring back characters with an impact. Toby was a nice surprise, Croc is cool now.

Do you want Smoker to become Team Rocket or for him to be waiting for Luffy somewhere in the New World?
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Old 2009-05-27, 09:36   Link #236
Rurik
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I'm not sure what's the fuss with Smoker, but Oda knows when to bring back characters with an impact. Toby was a nice surprise, Croc is cool now.
You meant Coby right?
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Old 2009-05-27, 09:43   Link #237
C.A.
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Yep, I think its because I'm on another replay of SRWZ that I remembered Toby's name instead

Toby of Setsuko route.
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No longer a NEET so I'll not be online as often.
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I'm a big mecha fan, who keeps playing the SRW series.
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My art album updated 11th May 2013, Science.
Deviant Art: http://ca0001.deviantart.com/
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Old 2009-05-28, 04:23   Link #238
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Croc is cool now.....or for him to be waiting for Luffy somewhere in the New World?
I think that the only real reason that Crocodile was brought up again in the manga was because it just makes sense? Where else are you going to incarcerate one of the Shichibukai? In a level that doesn't exist in the biggest baddest jail you have, that's where. I wouldn't mind seeing a round 2 between Smoker and Luffy and I think that they will meet up again in the new world because Zoro also has has unfinished business with Tashigi~
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