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Old 2009-05-24, 14:49   Link #161
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
Those guys (Croc and Luffy and the cross dressers) are weak sauce. A guy who would end most of there lives has just showed up.......The War will be swarming with strong guys like that.
I couldn't help but laugh a little when I read this . Excuse me, but how exactly are guys like Crocodile and Ivankov weak? Crocodile will always be a formidable opponent considering he is a logia user and has an instant-kill move that can take out anyone (moisture draining technique). The World Government chose him to be a warlord for a reason you know. As for Ivankov, this guy has nonchalantly been taking out guys with variations of "winks". He hasn't broken a sweat at all and he is just playing around with his opponents right now. He has definitely shown that the revolutionaries are no jokes.

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Originally Posted by Master Mold View Post
There is going to be nothing but major players that are going to be at the MHQ protecting/guarding Ace, excluding Moria he's weak.
Again, why do you call Moria weak? Because he lost to Luffy? You know that I've been through this so many times, so I don't think I need to explain anything more. We have yet to see Moria take an opponent seriously in a fight, and we know that he would stop fooling around when confronted by a high-level opponent. For example, recall how Moria (who had a very serious demeanor in this particular instance) wasn't intimidated by Kuma in the least and was completely on guard should Kuma have tried to attack him. That tells us something about how potentially dangerous he can be, and I think that was Oda's intention in showing us that scene. Just like Crocodile, Moria is a warlord for a reason.

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
hell some VA going war are not as strong as luffy and company.
How do you know exactly how strong the VA's are? We haven't seen any of them fight at all, so isn't it premature to assess their strength in comparison to Luffy and company?
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Old 2009-05-24, 16:31   Link #162
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
I didn't mean leave the SH crew out of the storyline permanetly, just for the war.
As clear as that is, there's a chance they could be part of the war filled with vengeful hatred against Marineford for their involvement with the corrupted ways of the World Government. Marineford and Mariejois deserve to be destroyed Hulk-style for being so corrupt.
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Old 2009-05-24, 16:57   Link #163
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post

How do you know exactly how strong the VA's are? We haven't seen any of them fight at all, so isn't it premature to assess their strength in comparison to Luffy and company?
That just how the anime and manga is. Also if VA were as strong as warlords why would even need warlords . I am not saying they can't be a VA as strong as them or a few(like smoker he is really strong for his rank) but don't expects all of them be as strong as croc , luffy , jimbei etc etc.

Also was guy who just had stab him just because of Handcock a VA?
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Old 2009-05-24, 17:09   Link #164
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
That just how the anime and manga is. Also if VA were as strong as warlords why would even need warlords . I am not saying they can't be a VA as strong as them or a few(like smoker he is really strong for his rank) but don't expects all of them be as strong as croc , luffy , jimbei etc etc.
I'm saying that you have no proof how strong the VA's are in comparison to Luffy and his gang. It's that simple. I'm pretty confident most of the VA's are weaker than the warlords (for reasons I've already explained in the past), but this is just my opinion, and until we see what the vice admirals can do in serious fights, you can't go around saying that Luffy is stronger than them as if it is a fact.

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Also was guy who just had stab him just because of Handcock a VA?
Yes. That was VA Momonga. He stabbed his hand to purge himself of any dirty thoughts to avoid being petrified, but he didn't even fight so it's not like he lost to her.
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Old 2009-05-24, 17:33   Link #165
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I'm saying that you have no proof how strong the VA's are in comparison to Luffy and his gang. It's that simple. I'm pretty confident most of the VA's are weaker than the warlords (for reasons I've already explained in the past), but this is just my opinion, and until we see what the vice admirals can do in serious fights, you can't go around saying that Luffy is stronger than them as if it is a fact.



Yes. That was VA Momonga. He stabbed his hand to purge himself of any dirty thoughts to avoid being petrified, but he didn't even fight so it's not like he lost to her.
Do i really need to write IMHO for something that is almost shonen law. Okay IMHO VA are not as strong as luffy and company .

While it was not a fight its not like he could have win anyway .
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Old 2009-05-24, 17:38   Link #166
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It seems to me that the posters dumping on Luffy here are presuming that Luffy will not have any kind of useful "power up" during this story arc.

Certainly he doesn't get obviously stronger in every story arc, but given how many obvious glimpses of "Haki" Luffy has already showing during this arc, it would be strange for him not to harness it somewhat by the end - it would be a lot of build-up for nothing and I doubt Oda would make a mistake like that.

In other words, the safest working assumption should be that Luffy will harness it at some point. I'd say he's currently somewhere in the Top 100 world-wide (in terms of strength) and being able to reliably use Haki will push him to the top 10-20 or so - and over the course of the rest of the series he will master it and properly incorporate it into his skills enough to push him to number 1.


Blackbeard is far from invulnerable - if Luffy punches Blackbeard, he will definitely feel it. Whether he feels it as a soft tap or a massive blow will depend on Luffy's attacking strength. Blackbeard's Devil Fruit power is very much a "attack is the best form of defence" type - it gives him the guaranteed ability to attack/hurt any Devil Fruit user. Blackbeard certainly knows about Haki, and is probably more than aware of his "limits" (however high they might be) in that regard - he probably figured his worst possible type of opponent long-term would be someone who had mastered Haki and was also a Devil Fruit user.

So anyway - at the end of chapter 543, Luffy has just snapped. That's quite likely (though certainly not guaranteed) to activate his Haki. We could see a scenario where Luffy hits Blackbeard with a Haki fuelled punch and sends him flying away. Luffy might want to continue against Blackbeard but would turn back to his objective to save Ace (and possibly carry his current anger into his fight with Magellan). As for Blackbeard, I certainly don't expect him to be "hurt" by that (amused more like and maybe vowing a little payback) and turn back to whatever it was he was aiming for.
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Old 2009-05-24, 17:39   Link #167
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^Some VA are undoubtedly weaker than Luffy and his new gang, but, then again, there are people like Garp that can easily match any of Luffy's gang. Additionally, someone like Aokiji, back when he was only Kuzan, was still a Vice Admiral back when he had the power to destroy other Vice-Admirals easily. So, realistically, there could be Admiral or almost Admiral level characters who only posses the rank of Vice-Admiral because there are only 3 Admiral positions.
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Old 2009-05-24, 17:46   Link #168
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Okay IMHO VA are not as strong as luffy and company .
Hmm....what about Garp? Garp's punches hurt Luffy really bad and Luffy wouldn't even dare to try and fight him. Mind you that Garp must be one of, if not, the strongest VA, but I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest the others are not far behind him. They are the next best candidates to become admirals, after all.

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While it was not a fight its not like he could have win anyway .
We don't even know what he's capable of, so it's not possible to reach that conclusion right now.
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Old 2009-05-24, 18:08   Link #169
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Wow, Luffy fanboys/fangirls are already harping on what Luffy can and will do concerning the up-coming war.....

How many of you wearing Luffy sunglasses forgot that Magellan just touchdown on Level Four?!!
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Old 2009-05-24, 18:55   Link #170
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
Hmm....what about Garp? Garp's punches hurt Luffy really bad and Luffy wouldn't even dare to try and fight him. Mind you that Garp must be one of, if not, the strongest VA, but I don't think it's too far fetched to suggest the others are not far behind him. They are the next best candidates to become admirals, after all.



We don't even know what he's capable of, so it's not possible to reach that conclusion right now.
Did you read what i said a few of them could be stronger than him i even use smoker so show that maybe even some one under VA could be stronger than him. But that does not mean all of them are stronger than luffy. Which was my point .

It does not mater what he capable of he had his hands full just trying to kept him self from turning into to stone.

I really don't want to go over this how strong Handcock is . you might say that after that he could get up and fight but let end this here .
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:21   Link #171
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by andy View Post
Did you read what i said a few of them could be stronger than him i even use smoker so show that maybe even some one under VA could be stronger than him. But that does not mean all of them are stronger than luffy. Which was my point.
The bottom line is that there is no way to assess how strong they are since we haven't seen them in action yet. We have no idea what they can do in a fight. It's all conjecture at this point and no facts. Do you understand?

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Originally Posted by andy View Post
It does not mater what he capable of he had his hands full just trying to kept him self from turning into to stone.
Of course it matters what he is capable of. If we don't know the full capabilities of a character, we can't properly evaluate how strong they are. Once Momonga stabbed himself, he didn't have to worry about Hancock's charms and petrification anymore since his pain was preventing him from getting feelings of arousal for her. He could've fought after that if he wanted to, but that wasn't his purpose for being there. He was waiting for her reply on whether or not she would comply with the shichibukai summoning. With that being said, of course he wasn't going to fight her right there and then.
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:27   Link #172
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
I couldn't help but laugh a little when I read this . Excuse me, but how exactly are guys like Crocodile and Ivankov weak? Crocodile will always be a formidable opponent considering he is a logia user and has an instant-kill move that can take out anyone (moisture draining technique). The World Government chose him to be a warlord for a reason you know. As for Ivankov, this guy has nonchalantly been taking out guys with variations of "winks". He hasn't broken a sweat at all and he is just playing around with his opponents right now. He has definitely shown that the revolutionaries are no jokes.
Ivankov hasn't fought anybody worth their salt but Sadi chan DODGED a kick from the *Yawns* cross-dressing candy and it seems like that might be a little battle for Ivankov. Master Molds statement concerning the rest of Luffy and company being weak was compared to guys like Blackbeard not in general. Blackbeard would send each one of team save Ace to Hell.

Quote:
Again, why do you call Moria weak? Because he lost to Luffy? You know that I've been through this so many times, so I don't think I need to explain anything more. We have yet to see Moria take an opponent seriously in a fight, and we know that he would stop fooling around when confronted by a high-level opponent. For example, recall how Moria (who had a very serious demeanor in this particular instance) wasn't intimidated by Kuma in the least and was completely on guard should Kuma have tried to attack him. That tells us something about how potentially dangerous he can be, and I think that was Oda's intention in showing us that scene. Just like Crocodile, Moria is a warlord for a reason.
Yes, Moria was a Warlord for a reason but you can't believe he wasn't serious against Luffy? The guy went so far as to even over-stuff himself with power he couldn't control in an attempt to murder Luffy. Moria not being serious against Luffy would be terrible writing and Moria displaying more techniques in this war he could have used against Luffy is even worse writing. And I know you guys think Oda is God so you must believe that Moria was serious and lost to Luffy fair and aquare.

Last edited by Phenomenal; 2009-05-24 at 19:43.
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:31   Link #173
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Originally Posted by Rainbowman View Post
As clear as that is, there's a chance they could be part of the war filled with vengeful hatred against Marineford for their involvement with the corrupted ways of the World Government. Marineford and Mariejois deserve to be destroyed Hulk-style for being so corrupt.
The Government feels the same about your pirates.
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:34   Link #174
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^And therein lies the tension that drives the drama of the current arc...
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:43   Link #175
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You fought the law and the law won.^^^
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:45   Link #176
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
The bottom line is that there is no way to assess how strong they are since we haven't seen them in action yet. We have no idea what they can do in a fight. It's all conjecture at this point and no facts. Do you understand?



Of course it matters what he is capable of. If we don't know the full capabilities of a character, we can't properly evaluate how strong they are. Once Momonga stabbed himself, he didn't have to worry about Hancock's charms and petrification anymore since his pain was preventing him from getting feelings of arousal for her. He could've fought after that if he wanted to, but that wasn't his purpose for being there. He was waiting for her reply on whether or not she would comply with the shichibukai summoning. With that being said, of course he wasn't going to fight her right there and then.
It makes no sense talking to you. There are shonen laws and that one of them . Until Oda comes out and say all VA are stronger than luffy i am going stick with what i know has happen in every manga i read so far . For eg if there 50 VA 30 stronger than luffy and 20 weaker . In fact another shonen law luffy main char he gets random power up to beat VA.
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:53   Link #177
Blackbeard D. Kuma
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Master Molds statement concerning the rest of Luffy and company being weak was compared to guys like Blackbeard not in general. Blackbeard would send each one of team save Ace to Hell.
In comparison to Blackbeard, yes I agree with that. Although, I have a feeling that if Jimbei is fighting in the ocean, he'll give Blackbeard big problems. Something tells me that Jimbei is going to be top-tier in an aquatic environment. I don't think there's many people that can stand up to him when he's fighting underwater. He must be godlike under the sea.

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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Yes, Moria was a Warlord for a reason but you can't believe he wasn't serious against Luffy? The guy went so far as to even over-stuff himself with power he couldn't control in an attempt to murder Luffy. Moria not being serious against Luffy would be terrible writing and Moria displaying more techniques in this war he could have used against Luffy is even worse writing.
It's too bad that he performed Shadows Asgard in such a damaged state. He already lost the fight by that point, which was a result of Luffy getting a 100 shadow power-up from external interference (Rolling Pirates). Zoro even said it himself that Moria had already lost and that it was now just a race against time. It was an act of desperation on Moria's part.

In other words, Moria didn't get a chance to fight seriously, and when he did, he was already in really poor condition to do so. Both the sunrise and Shadows Asgard technique were convenient plot devices to have the shadows expelled from Moria so that the victims whose shadows had been robbed wouldn't die. If Moria never did that technique, Luffy would have died right there and that simply couldn't happen.
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:55   Link #178
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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Ivankov hasn't fought anybody worth their salt but Sadi chan DODGED a kick from the *Yawns* cross-dressing candy and it seems like that might be a little battle for Ivankov. Master Molds statement concerning the rest of Luffy and company being weak was compared to guys like Blackbeard not in general. Blackbeard would send each one of team save Ace to Hell.



Yes, Moria was a Warlord for a reason but you can't believe he wasn't serious against Luffy? The guy went so far as to even over-stuff himself with power he couldn't control in an attempt to murder Luffy. Moria not being serious against Luffy would be terrible writing and Moria displaying more techniques in this war he could have used against Luffy is even worse writing. And I know you guys think Oda is God so you must believe that Moria was serious and lost to Luffy fair and aquare.
It seem you have not heard no one fights luffy serious . Even after croc said so in manga , even after moria was piss of that OZ got beat nope they hold back all the time. Damn luffy is not even my Fav OP char but i dont like people making out everything he done so far has been luck . Plus luck it part of you are any way .
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:58   Link #179
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
In comparison to Blackbeard, yes I agree with that. Although, I have a feeling that if Jimbei is fighting in the ocean, he'll give Blackbeard big problems. Something tells me that Jimbei is going to be top-tier in an aquatic environment. I don't think there's many people that can stand up to him when he's fighting underwater. He must be godlike under the sea.
Yeah, Jinbei is most likely a beast underwater, then again any devil fruit user would be in trouble against him in the ocean.

Quote:
It's too bad that he performed Shadows Asgard in such a damaged state. He already lost the fight by that point, which was a result of Luffy getting a 100 shadow power-up from external interference (Rolling Pirates). Zoro even said it himself that Moria had already lost and that it was now just a race against time. It was an act of desperation on Moria's part.

In other words, Moria didn't get a chance to fight seriously, and when he did, he was already in really poor condition to do so. Both the sunrise and Shadows Asgard technique were convenient plot devices to have the shadows expelled from Moria so that the victims whose shadows had been robbed wouldn't die. If Moria never did that technique, Luffy would have died right there and that simply couldn't happen.
Well, we'll just leave Moria in the mystery box then and see what he is really made up of in his next battle.
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Old 2009-05-24, 19:59   Link #180
andy
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Originally Posted by Blackbeard D. Kuma View Post
In comparison to Blackbeard, yes I agree with that. Although, I have a feeling that if Jimbei is fighting in the ocean, he'll give Blackbeard big problems. Something tells me that Jimbei is going to be top-tier in an aquatic environment. I don't think there's many people that can stand up to him when he's fighting underwater. He must be godlike under the sea.



It's too bad that he performed Shadows Asgard in such a damaged state. He already lost the fight by that point, which was a result of Luffy getting a 100 shadow power-up from external interference (Rolling Pirates). Zoro even said it himself that Moria had already lost and that it was now just a race against time. It was an act of desperation on Moria's part.

In other words, Moria didn't get a chance to fight seriously, and when he did, he was already in really poor condition to do so. Both the sunrise and Shadows Asgard technique were convenient plot devices to have the shadows expelled from Moria so that the victims whose shadows had been robbed wouldn't die. If Moria never did that technique, Luffy would have died right there and that simply couldn't happen.
You really need to stop with the IF.



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Originally Posted by Phenomenal View Post
Yeah, Jinbei is most likely a beast underwater, then again any devil fruit user would be in trouble against him in the ocean.



Well, we'll just leave Moria in the mystery box then and see what he is really made up of in his next battle.
Not like it matters he has nothing left no showdows , 2 crew mates and one them can't even fight . Moria cool and all but he need times for his fights in a one fight out in open he not that great right now.
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