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Old 2009-05-28, 09:03   Link #121
4Tran
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
OT : How OLD are you?
I'm old enough to remember the events of the Tiananmen Square incident as they happened. It's a shame (in more ways than one) that the subsequent massacre overshadowed the earlier buildup so much in the West because I think that those earlier portions are probably more important in the long run.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Not just you Poles who rammed sticks up your government's asses. Heard of the Velvet Revolution in Prague, Czechoslovakia? I would say that the year proved to be the biggest damage that caused the downfall of communism (Soviets moved out of Afghanistan after getting beaten by the mujahideen.)
1989 was certainly a year for huge changes in the Communist world. Nobody at the time expected there to be such huge changes - and in my naivety at the time, I thought that China was more likely to adopt democratic principles than Eastern Europe was.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I wouldn't want an uprising at this time. Right now China is the base of the world economy with the Western economic pillars collapsing, any "social reform" could probably shallow our pockets for a few years more than it already should.
At this point in time, any great upheaval in China is going to be very unpleasant for the rest of the world as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Although for CCP, their method of cover up and operation are still outdated. Government propaganda nowdays is more about information manipulation than information control. The more they tried to censor information, the more suspicious people become.
Very much so, but the level of censorship and repression is far lighter than it used to be. If this trend continues, there's even a possibility that the country might see something akin to free speech one of these days. Obviously this might well take decades to achieve, but that's the nature of evolutionary change.
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Old 2009-05-28, 09:07   Link #122
yezhanquan
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4Tran is at least 30 years old. I'm guessing 35 and above.
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Old 2009-05-28, 17:58   Link #123
Shadow Kira01
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Twitter Blocked By Great Firewall of China‎

The same tactic don't work twice or so, it seems..

Perhaps, China was paying attention to the Moldova's Twitter Revolution and decided to take a step to prevent any slightest possibility of a similar occurrence. However, Twitter isn't the only place to start a revolution. In fact, people who seeks to start mass movements actually have an indefinite number of resources and tools in this day and age. Twitter is just one of the million cards available.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeoXiao View Post
The principles are everything. The reason why I support FLG so much is because I believe it is amazing that, considering who they are (a group of people, lol) and what situation they are under, have not betrayed their principles. You say principles are useless. I say they are most powerful.
Are you sure?

Since you are a supporter of FLG which also implies that you are a member of FLG, then you do know or most likely know that the FLG is perceived differently outside of your circle, right? Although you FLG members are spreading your religious beliefs and philosophy to the world, mostly to the Chinese but there are non-Chinese members, I assume. Well..

Regardless of what the FLG claims or does, it is also well known that FLG members tend to be suicidal as that they would set themselves ablaze and many of which are mentally ill to the point that they need to be helped which explains why China has so many places to keep and detain FLG members. Is this true? FLG members also give the image that they are a crazy bunch who do non-sensical things, as well as believing unreasonable things that it is possible to recover from colds just by practicing their techniques which greatly resemble typical meditation.

By the way, I do know what actually happened to the ones who ended up as coal in garbage bags. Its just that these claims of yours are quite unrealistic and it also appears that you are ignorant of what is actually going on involving China and the world.
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Last edited by Shadow Kira01; 2009-06-02 at 18:36. Reason: updated post with new info.
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Old 2009-06-03, 23:32   Link #124
Claies
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Looks like a somber day today.
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Old 2009-06-04, 08:46   Link #125
justavisitor
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Well, can't believe 20 years have past since that tragedy/slaughter....

I don't really know how to describe my sadness. Just want to express my sincere condolences to victims' families..

Well, just searched the news and realized that right now, 100000 citizens in HK are gathering to have a peaceful protest...they want to give justice back to those victims who lost their lives on Tiananmen, 1989

Those victims will never be forgotten and I hope one day the china government will give justice back to those victims and admit the government's wrongdoing. The sooner that day comes, the better.
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Old 2009-06-04, 11:45   Link #126
Kinny Riddle
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Candlelight vigil for the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre in Hong Kong - a record number of 150,000 attended, packing the whole Victoria Park (a smaller equivalent of New York's Central Park or London's Hyde Park).

Usually it's 20,000 to 50,000 a year, but thanks to the efforts of all the Communist Apologists in trying to whitewash history in the weeks leading up to the anniversary, a lot of people felt compelled to come out to tell them they will not buy their lies and misinformation, and that this fight is not over until justice is served.



No, that's not my hand, but I was standing behind the guy who was holding the candle.

To all you apologists and denialists, I will say only this:

Economic prosperity does not justify mass murder.

And you are deluded if you thought the economic prowess of China is because of the oppression, on the contrary, the economic growth happened in spite of Tiananmen.

However, if you look carefully under all this surface of "prosperity", you'll soon realize that the corruption that those students wanted to eradicate 20 years ago remain, and is worse than ever. Tainted milk scandal, dodgy school buildings collapsing in the Sichuan earthquake, and the subsequent cover ups.

As the proverb goes, "a rotten interior beneath a fine exterior" (金玉其外,敗絮其中). To the Party, this is your last chance, or you WILL fall very painfully, whether by force or by civil movement.
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哀莫大於心死。
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Old 2009-06-04, 13:12   Link #127
Sinestra
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This is around the time i would say let us not forget those who died for what they believed (they have not been forgotten thats evident as the huge memorial service that is taking place in Hong Kong)

Then i would say let us hope for a better tomorrow. Well technically its been 20 years and tomorrow is here and its not that much better if you ask me and that comment is not just in reference to China.
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Old 2009-06-04, 13:24   Link #128
justavisitor
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Might as well to add a bit of info of the great "speech" from Hong Kong mayor...sometimes I have to think he is secretly trying to promote democracy ...he had to say the following in the weeks before the anniversary so he wants more ppl to join the protest...

A parliament member asks the HK mayor: Do you think Economic prosperity does justify mass murder?
HK mayor: hmm..you know, because after the 6.4 incident, the economy has been booming...and because of the economic prosperity, I believe that it's time to use an objective view to judge the whole "6.4 incident" again...and it's also my belief that what I said represents every hong konger...(but he is selected by 800 ppl...hk ppl can't even vote their own mayor)

Afterward, many ppl raised the banner saying "HK mayor doesn't represent me" and urged ppl to show up and participate in Candlelight vigil for the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre in Hong Kong's victoria park

Thanks HK mayor, you try really hard to urge ppl to come out and send a message that ppl will not forget the massacre.
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To all old and new Sheryl fans:
I am a Ranka fan and I have significant experience in defending various "crimes" committed by Ranka, from her evil plan to terminate human races, to feeding inapporiate food to unknown lifeforms. If you think you find "new" charges aginst Ranka and you are interested, or you care to see how a particular Ranka fan would respond, please feel free to check my previous comment. There is a good chance that I have answered a similiar issue. And of course, my viewpoints do not necessarily represent other perspectivs from numerous Ranka fans in this planet
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Old 2009-06-04, 20:39   Link #129
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Candlelight vigil for the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre in Hong Kong - a record number of 150,000 attended, packing the whole Victoria Park (a smaller equivalent of New York's Central Park or London's Hyde Park).

Usually it's 20,000 to 50,000 a year, but thanks to the efforts of all the Communist Apologists in trying to whitewash history in the weeks leading up to the anniversary, a lot of people felt compelled to come out to tell them they will not buy their lies and misinformation, and that this fight is not over until justice is served.

I'll act like I was there then. Kinda hard when I'm 15000 km away. Really wish I was there.
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Old 2009-06-04, 20:49   Link #130
yezhanquan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
Candlelight vigil for the 20th anniversary of the Tiananmen Massacre in Hong Kong - a record number of 150,000 attended, packing the whole Victoria Park (a smaller equivalent of New York's Central Park or London's Hyde Park).

Usually it's 20,000 to 50,000 a year, but thanks to the efforts of all the Communist Apologists in trying to whitewash history in the weeks leading up to the anniversary, a lot of people felt compelled to come out to tell them they will not buy their lies and misinformation, and that this fight is not over until justice is served.



No, that's not my hand, but I was standing behind the guy who was holding the candle.

To all you apologists and denialists, I will say only this:

Economic prosperity does not justify mass murder.

And you are deluded if you thought the economic prowess of China is because of the oppression, on the contrary, the economic growth happened in spite of Tiananmen.

However, if you look carefully under all this surface of "prosperity", you'll soon realize that the corruption that those students wanted to eradicate 20 years ago remain, and is worse than ever. Tainted milk scandal, dodgy school buildings collapsing in the Sichuan earthquake, and the subsequent cover ups.

As the proverb goes, "a rotten interior beneath a fine exterior" (金玉其外,敗絮其中). To the Party, this is your last chance, or you WILL fall very painfully, whether by force or by civil movement.
And the wheel of history turns on. I'll continue to ....observe. At least they lasted longer than the Qin.

In spite, despite... we can debate this for ages. I'll say this: the Party is wily.
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Last edited by yezhanquan; 2009-06-04 at 21:07.
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Old 2009-06-05, 01:16   Link #131
sa547
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Watching how reporters try to get a shot of Tiananmen, only to be harassed considerably with cameras, those Beijing cops seemed to have created a game called "Block the Cam".

I'll never and probably will never know who's that unknown guy with steel balls to stand up against a column of tanks.

As for the Chinese government, it'll be futile trying to cover everything up and sugarcoat the truth.
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Old 2009-06-05, 01:24   Link #132
yezhanquan
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Which reminds me: We ought to also salute the tank commander who stopped in front of the guy. At least, he did wait and not just run over.
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Old 2009-06-05, 09:24   Link #133
4Tran
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To commemorate, here's the link to the PBS Frontline program delving into the Tankman story: http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/tankman/ If you have an interest in this historical event and an hour or two of spare time, I recommend checking it out.

While I wish that there was more material covering events around the world at the time, I think that it does a good job of setting the events in Beijing, and the fallout afterwards. The sights and stories of a military force attacking its citizens is a chilling one to behold.
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Old 2009-06-05, 10:15   Link #134
Kinny Riddle
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All I can say to this is: Massive facepalm.



If "nothing ever happened" 20 years ago, what are trying to hide?

If it were a few years ago, their cameras would be brutally smashed on the spot, so you could argue that it's some sort of "improvement". But surely they can do better than hiding pathetically behind umbrellas?


Here's something a bit off-topic, but not quite.

Long ago, the term Fenqing was introduced in discussions here to describe the netizens of China who had unknowingly toed the Party's line.

Allow me to introduce something else sinister: The 50 Cent Party. (五毛黨).

Officially, their title is "Web Commentator" (網絡評論員). I'm not making this up, it's actually a real profession where they are paid to "guide netizens towards "correct" thinking". I have seen photos of people attending seminars on how to "commentate on the web", I'll try digging it up afterwards.

How much they're paid is not known. But observers noted that from the rate that they spam dissident forums, they probably aren't paid a lot, so they speculate it's probably only a measly 0.50 Yuan (US$0.05) per post. The more you reply to these professional trolls, the more money they make.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7783640.stm
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008...marketingandpr
http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/col...ck+Web+2.0.htm
__________________
哀莫大於心死。
我對這裡的管理員的霸道與毫無準則的執法行為感到徹底失望﹗

It was fun while it lasted.

Last edited by Kinny Riddle; 2009-06-05 at 10:32.
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Old 2009-06-05, 13:08   Link #135
Vexx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
All I can say to this is: Massive facepalm.



If "nothing ever happened" 20 years ago, what are trying to hide?
(after picking self off of floor laughing)
O.. my.. god.. Monty Python could not have staged a more buffoon infested moment. These PRC goons are so dangerous yet they look so ridiculous.
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Old 2009-06-05, 15:33   Link #136
Daniel E.
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Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
These PRC goons are so dangerous yet they look so ridiculous.
Not to mention that their attempts at trying to hide this are probably drawing even more attention from the media.
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Old 2009-06-05, 18:21   Link #137
Claies
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinny Riddle View Post
If "nothing ever happened" 20 years ago, what are trying to hide?
It's important to note that they didn't say "nothing ever happened". They do offer an "official account" of the events, portraying those involved as thugs and murderers that seek to bring down the government.

If I were ruling in the Politburo I would have simply ordered a "renovation and rejuvenation project" over the entire square in the weeks around June 4 as both an excuse and to mollify/excite the unknowing youth to my favor. Like...what they're doing made absolutely no sense.
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Old 2009-06-05, 19:46   Link #138
Vexx
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The comic clowning of the security doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?
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Old 2009-06-05, 21:15   Link #139
LeoXiao
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
The comic clowning of the security doesn't exactly inspire confidence, does it?
Confidence? The CCP doesn't need people to be confident of it; it just needs people to know that it can do whatever the heck it wants.
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Old 2009-06-05, 21:28   Link #140
Vexx
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Well.. what I meant was buffoonery invites disrespect.
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