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Old 2012-06-08, 17:38   Link #2501
problemedchild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Demi. View Post
It's okay man, I came across a pack of invul minions, and they made me so furious I spent well over an hr hacking away at their hp, only to become aquainted with the rage timer, after I finally had them down to attempt to kill range. The fuck is up with that, anyways?

Also, I fear it's time for a new build. This hydra/blizzard combo just isn't working well in Inferno. Elite mobs get slowed like 10% from Blizzard and they're already twice as fast as me anyways.
I've cleared Inferno with the Blizzard/Hydra build. In fact, I carried my Barb friend when we went into Act 2 and 3 two weeks after the game launched and he got one shot by everything in those acts. He even made a kiting build to accommodate my build There's nothing wrong with the build unless you encounter some extremely fast enemies, even then you can still kill them by kiting around in a giant circle around a large object.

It's kinda sad how mobs scale though. My friend can tank most elites in Act 3 Inferno, stand in Azmodan's pools and tank Diablo with absolutely no issues, but Act 4 elites will still destroy him half the time.

Last edited by problemedchild; 2012-06-08 at 18:38.
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Old 2012-06-09, 00:30   Link #2502
aohige
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Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
You know what, fuck this game. I just died in act 1 with 40k health and 600 resists...

I came across an arcane, invulnerable minion hulk group that was already annoying enough to fight but they went down after a bit.

Then I run into this band of circlejerk idiots.

Spoiler:


So I get my serenity up punch a few times, and run, but they suck me back in and it's pretty much an infinite. Jailed, frozen, while they run around jerking themselves off and jizzing on you with their fire. (sounds like Blizzard, really) You can't kite them because they suck you in or freeze you if you come within anything close by, and well, honestly, defeating them is such a better I figured just quitting the game was a better idea. If I was a DH/Wizard playing hc, I'd probably uninstall the game right now.
Save serenity for boxed and frozen.
Use doorways to stand in the middle, and kicks to kick them away when they try to get around you for beams.
Although vortex is annoying, they do not have molten, it's dealable.

I play a monk too, and farm Inferno elites in Act 1 for valor runs.
It's doable dude.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Skane View Post
The main thing that stood out to me was that your Life on Hit is pretty low. No matter how good your Armor and Resists are, you are going to be taking damage, and you need a way to gain back your lost health.

Cheers.
He's just starting inferno. LoH isn't crucial till end of Act 2 and start of Act 3, his priorities MUST be raising resist with OwA, Skane.
No amount of LoH is going to save you from one-shots.
As a monk, you must, must must must must must must must MUST put mitigation as top priority. MUST. I repeat, MUST.
Resist of under 200 will get him one-shotted by a random beam or molten elite in Act 1.
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Old 2012-06-09, 01:15   Link #2503
Tokkan
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http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5594218404

RMAH requires that your account have an authenticator attached.
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Old 2012-06-09, 02:35   Link #2504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tokkan View Post
http://us.battle.net/d3/en/forum/topic/5594218404

RMAH requires that your account have an authenticator attached.
Oh Blizzard, you silly fools.

"Oh, I know, let's give people a false sense of security while ripping them off at the same time!"

As far as I know, most of the D3 hacks bypass the authenticator completely. But hey, why not. Once a significant % of RMAH users gets hacked to high heavens, ...Blizz really wants their customers to hate them, don't they?
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Old 2012-06-09, 02:42   Link #2505
Duo Maxwell
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Originally Posted by Larthak View Post
Oh Blizzard, you silly fools.

"Oh, I know, let's give people a false sense of security while ripping them off at the same time!"

As far as I know, most of the D3 hacks bypass the authenticator completely. But hey, why not. Once a significant % of RMAH users gets hacked to high heavens, ...Blizz really wants their customers to hate them, don't they?
It makes more sense than allow people to use the RMAH without any authenticator. At least with this, they know the problem is actually coming from them if it happens, instead of people's stupidity.
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Old 2012-06-09, 03:30   Link #2506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aohige View Post
Save serenity for boxed and frozen.
Use doorways to stand in the middle, and kicks to kick them away when they try to get around you for beams.
Although vortex is annoying, they do not have molten, it's dealable.

I play a monk too, and farm Inferno elites in Act 1 for valor runs.
It's doable dude.
Yea I've been doing Act 1 mostly without issue until this crap happens. But the thing is most of the time it seems that I waste less time by not bothering to fight them at all. But I guess I'll try the kick again.

As for the authenticator for real money, it's fairly reasonable.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:10   Link #2507
Waven
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If you're going to use the RMAH then an authenticator is indeed reasonable. About accounts with authenticators being compromised on a big scale rather than few exceptions: I've yet to see definite proof of a hack that bypasses the authenticator. It's not like I don't want to believe in it but all I see is people on the inet just guessing, estimating and even making up silly conspiracy theories.
It's kinda hard to take anything on the internet seriously when it is the breeding ground for superficial knowledge and hearsay.

Back to the fun topic:

@all the other DHs already in inferno: Do you guys plan to go for more def stats with the upcoming changes, especially the excessive increase in repair costs? Personally I didn't death-zerg most champ/elite packs but this still got me thinking. Before we would usually drop all def stats and go all out on dps but now I'm seriously thinking about a hardcore-oriented build, with more all res, vit and even 1hxb/shield.
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Old 2012-06-09, 04:31   Link #2508
problemedchild
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Originally Posted by Waven View Post
@all the other DHs already in inferno: Do you guys plan to go for more def stats with the upcoming changes, especially the excessive increase in repair costs? Personally I didn't death-zerg most champ/elite packs but this still got me thinking. Before we would usually drop all def stats and go all out on dps but now I'm seriously thinking about a hardcore-oriented build, with more all res, vit and even 1hxb/shield.
What exactly would you prevent though? As a Wizard with over 500 resist all and over 800 in a party everything that hits me will nearly always proc Force Armor. So each hit is hitting me at least for 13k+. You'd be dead in two hits even with resist all gear.
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Old 2012-06-09, 08:44   Link #2509
iceyfw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
@all the other DHs already in inferno: Do you guys plan to go for more def stats with the upcoming changes, especially the excessive increase in repair costs? Personally I didn't death-zerg most champ/elite packs but this still got me thinking. Before we would usually drop all def stats and go all out on dps but now I'm seriously thinking about a hardcore-oriented build, with more all res, vit and even 1hxb/shield.
doesn't matter for the most part. dh will still get one shot with no cds to avoid mob hits in inferno. keep stacking that dps as high as you can and zerg while kiting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by problemedchild View Post
What exactly would you prevent though? As a Wizard with over 500 resist all and over 800 in a party everything that hits me will nearly always proc Force Armor. So each hit is hitting me at least for 13k+. You'd be dead in two hits even with resist all gear.
what is your dps and hp at when playing solo? curiosity on my part.
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Old 2012-06-09, 10:46   Link #2510
felix
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
@all the other DHs already in inferno: Do you guys plan to go for more def stats with the upcoming changes, especially the excessive increase in repair costs? Personally I didn't death-zerg most champ/elite packs but this still got me thinking. Before we would usually drop all def stats and go all out on dps but now I'm seriously thinking about a hardcore-oriented build, with more all res, vit and even 1hxb/shield.
No. I'm going to go DPS-party build. It's only a nerf to act 2 difficulty I believe (though the party change affects all acts).

Also US should already have the changes to party mechanics. They are server side. Playing hardcore monk until they reach us in the EU. All the other changes are nice too but the party mechanic one is the biggest IMHO.

Well maybe the death cost for inferno, but I think their proposed fix is wrong. From my perspective currently a lot of rage is due to the death mechanic. Basically because death is essentially free, people don't see their DPS based specs (build and items) as bad (outside of hardcore) so when you play softcore it's very very easy to just turn into a glass canon. This sense of "doing the right thing" (because you're not affected by death) just gets engrained into you as you progress. This is even more true if you progressed in a party since death is just that minor 1s inconvenience (particularly in a party of 3 or more). When you reach Hell / Inferno you then start to see rage as people start dieing over and over and don't realize its bad, because the game has pushed you into being a DPS hore. Then you reach inferno (as a DPS hore) and (because solo-ing at the moment is the best way) you find out what it means to die and walk back to where you died; and how if you die multiple times that timer goes up. But it doesn't occur to you what you're doing wrong, since it "seemed" right up to that point.
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Old 2012-06-09, 11:18   Link #2511
Flying Dagger
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The Tyrael nerf finally came. It actually hurts me quite a bit. While I do not afk Tyrael farm, he contributes to the majority of my dps (mine is still sitting @ 7.5k - I can swap to a 850dps weapon for higher but I lose all my LoH).

Not sure how I will go farm now by myself until weapon upgrade on my barb. I might just use my DH again and zerg things down. Any modestly geared DPS want to try some siegebreaker runs?
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Old 2012-06-09, 16:29   Link #2512
problemedchild
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceyfw View Post
what is your dps and hp at when playing solo? curiosity on my part.
56k with just Glass Cannon. I've been lazy about upgrading my gear, have a lot of money, just haven't been bothered to buy anything

Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
No. I'm going to go DPS-party build. It's only a nerf to act 2 difficulty I believe (though the party change affects all acts).

Also US should already have the changes to party mechanics. They are server side. Playing hardcore monk until they reach us in the EU. All the other changes are nice too but the party mechanic one is the biggest IMHO.

Well maybe the death cost for inferno, but I think their proposed fix is wrong. From my perspective currently a lot of rage is due to the death mechanic. Basically because death is essentially free, people don't see their DPS based specs (build and items) as bad (outside of hardcore) so when you play softcore it's very very easy to just turn into a glass canon. This sense of "doing the right thing" (because you're not affected by death) just gets engrained into you as you progress. This is even more true if you progressed in a party since death is just that minor 1s inconvenience (particularly in a party of 3 or more). When you reach Hell / Inferno you then start to see rage as people start dieing over and over and don't realize its bad, because the game has pushed you into being a DPS hore. Then you reach inferno (as a DPS hore) and (because solo-ing at the moment is the best way) you find out what it means to die and walk back to where you died; and how if you die multiple times that timer goes up. But it doesn't occur to you what you're doing wrong, since it "seemed" right up to that point.
It's just crappy design on the part of Diablo. Making all Inferno mobs hit so hard to the point that a reasonable amount of damage mitigation is worth jack forces people to go the glass cannon route. It's just another one of Diablo 3's short coming.


Is anyone else not excited when you see a Set or Unique item drop? I realized yesterday that nothing that drops from Diablo 3 excites me anymore. Rares? Likely gold pickup, Thorns, or 300 DPS. Blues? I get so many of them that I have over 1.5k Inferno powders. Uniques? The last 5 I got weren't even worth 100k
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Old 2012-06-09, 17:55   Link #2513
felix
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Is anyone else not excited when you see a Set or Unique item drop?
There are a ton (a TON!) of crappy uniques. Also, it's possible to get absolute garbage stats on them, which is the main problem.

That being said there are some south after uniques, or more precisely "unique" stats.
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Old 2012-06-09, 18:14   Link #2514
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
No. I'm going to go DPS-party build. It's only a nerf to act 2 difficulty I believe (though the party change affects all acts).

Also US should already have the changes to party mechanics. They are server side. Playing hardcore monk until they reach us in the EU. All the other changes are nice too but the party mechanic one is the biggest IMHO.

Well maybe the death cost for inferno, but I think their proposed fix is wrong. From my perspective currently a lot of rage is due to the death mechanic. Basically because death is essentially free, people don't see their DPS based specs (build and items) as bad (outside of hardcore) so when you play softcore it's very very easy to just turn into a glass canon. This sense of "doing the right thing" (because you're not affected by death) just gets engrained into you as you progress. This is even more true if you progressed in a party since death is just that minor 1s inconvenience (particularly in a party of 3 or more). When you reach Hell / Inferno you then start to see rage as people start dieing over and over and don't realize its bad, because the game has pushed you into being a DPS hore. Then you reach inferno (as a DPS hore) and (because solo-ing at the moment is the best way) you find out what it means to die and walk back to where you died; and how if you die multiple times that timer goes up. But it doesn't occur to you what you're doing wrong, since it "seemed" right up to that point.
But the thing is that if you don't spec DPS, you can't do much in inferno, and then the enrage timer will bend you over anyways. If you can't thin mobs fast enough to reduce their damage, it will overwhelm you regardless of defense. Damned if you do, damned if you don't. And stacking tons of survival gear costs millions upon millions of gold. People are only doing glass cannons because at least that can kill something with a semblance of pace. Why not just go back to hell act 4 then? But then farming that will take forever to get anything that's Inferno viable thanks to the shitty drop rates. Hell mode will have a time dropping you inferno gear, when fucking inferno doesn't even drop inferno gear most of the time. And you can't just kill slowly because if a monster drops nothing or something shitty on inferno, it means jack shit because you can no longer gain exp. I've pretty much spent all my gold so that I can tank 90% of mobs in Act 1. Still, there's some retarded combo that stomps me anyways. Let's not even talk about what happens later.

Regular monsters in act 2 hit harder than the Butcher. This is stupid. The disparity between elite mobs and boss monsters is ridiculous. I understand that elites are the cream of the crop and could understand why they are so strong. But to have regular bosses be a joke compared to them, resulting in inconsistent difficulty in which the game quickly flip flops from being anticlimactically easy to near impossible disrupts the game flow horrendously.

I don't really disagree that the penalty for death is too low (due to cost of potions, it's actually more cost effective to die than to use too many!), but on the other hand the effort to not die is very excessive. The margin of error inferno is so low, that I would find playing hardcore too tedious to even bother with it.

There is no tanking in Diablo 3 Inferno unless you are filthy rich. There is only "Not die in one hit and run around like a headless chicken til your cooldowns come back" or "kill everything before it touches you". Can I blame anyone for taking the later? I feel the later gives a faster return for sure. I can buy a good bow for 200k. Survival gear? Not as easily.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-06-09 at 18:30.
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Old 2012-06-09, 19:01   Link #2515
felix
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The margin of error inferno is so low, that I would find playing hardcore too tedious to even bother with it.
Hardcore is not that tedious. You just think slightly differently, respect the game mechanics from lv1, etc. The death penalty is over estimated too. It's not that easy to die if you don't act stupid. Essentially there are only a few mobs and a few key bosses that can literally rape you on any gear: tanking wasps in Act 2, explosive suicide mobs in Act 2 (Kulle), Belial (kind of, not really an issue on normal), explosive mobs on Act 3 (when you're on the inside), elite Soul Repears in Act 3. That's about it. Most other mobs will only kill you if you get crap champion/elite affixes, act stupid, are undergeared or are under leveled... mostly the act stupid part. If you trust yourself you can just charge forward just like in softcore... just respect your defenses (unlike in softcore). Slower then a snail is not the only way to play hardcore...

You can just save all your good items every 10 levels (at least I like to think that's what most people do) so in the unfortunate event you die a stupid death (which you will, inevitably -- everyone has a stupid death ) you can just breeze though the content. The more you go though the game the better your items for the specific levels become. and if you just play the objective you can just burn though the game extremely fast, especially with the low HP mobs have when you solo. Think of it this way, you spend most of your time fighting, if though iteration you get to the point you have perfect gear so you can go in with dual wield / two handers etc, you then kill 3 times faster and as a result go though the game 3 times faster. You're going to die eventually, so what's faster slow crawl or perfect re-iteration?

The issue with inferno and why people are having trouble is that to progress you have to farm items, and the minimum is the same with the maximum (on inferno), so near perfect stats on items (we're specifically talking about iLv = mob Lv; which is the current case). Because the margin of error on items is just so close to zero it's like hitting a brick wall, otherwise there's not much of an issue. At least on hardcore you won't be playing stupid even with perfect gear; it's just not worth it. This shouldn't come as a surprise since the entire difficulty is meant to be "an unbalanced / unfair version of the game". The 1.03 patch should work to solve this issue by giving (reasonable) access to higher iLv items so it's not such a kick in the teeth and gimmicky.

Quote:
Regular monsters in act 2 hit harder than the Butcher. This is stupid.
Because you can skip the regular mobs if you find them unfavorable; can't skip the butcher. If you can't beat it, you can't progress.
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Old 2012-06-09, 19:06   Link #2516
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Originally Posted by felix View Post
There are a ton (a TON!) of crappy uniques. Also, it's possible to get absolute garbage stats on them, which is the main problem.

That being said there are some south after uniques, or more precisely "unique" stats.
I've picked up five legendaries now, all garbage of course.
The legendaries have pretty much became assigned to my followers.

I'd kill for a good Ouroboros...
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Old 2012-06-09, 19:40   Link #2517
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Hardcore is not that tedious. You just think slightly differently, respect the game mechanics from lv1, etc. The death penalty is over estimated too. It's not that easy to die if you don't act stupid. Essentially there are only a few mobs and a few key bosses that can literally rape you on any gear: tanking wasps in Act 2, explosive suicide mobs in Act 2 (Kulle), Belial (kind of, not really an issue on normal), explosive mobs on Act 3 (when you're on the inside), elite Soul Repears in Act 3. That's about it. Most other mobs will only kill you if you get crap champion/elite affixes, act stupid, are undergeared or are under leveled... mostly the act stupid part. If you trust yourself you can just charge forward just like in softcore... just respect your defenses (unlike in softcore). Slower then a snail is not the only way to play hardcore...
Wait, are you actually in inferno? A few mobs? More like every mob can spell your death if you're not careful. Have you come across a tough mob if you are in inferno and met the enrage timer?

There are other reasons why I don't play hardcore very much, namely fear of server hiccups, the broken checkpoint thing, and the kiting monsters to town exploits that can happen in public games. Yes, I can get around all of these, but these little annoying things add up.
Quote:
You can just save all your good items every 10 levels (at least I like to think that's what most people do) so in the unfortunate event you die a stupid death (which you will, inevitably -- everyone has a stupid death ) you can just breeze though the content. The more you go though the game the better your items for the specific levels become. and if you just play the objective you can just burn though the game extremely fast, especially with the low HP mobs have when you solo. Think of it this way, you spend most of your time fighting, if though iteration you get to the point you have perfect gear so you can go in with dual wield / two handers etc, you then kill 3 times faster and as a result go though the game 3 times faster. You're going to die eventually, so what's faster slow crawl or perfect re-iteration?
Well, there's no need for that, mostly. Your gold stays with you and buying leveling gear shouldn't be too hard. So it was less annoying then it was in d2 when one would create entire mule accounts. One thing I will say is that death in hardcore will make the economy for that a lot more fluid than the softcore one will be.
Quote:
The issue with inferno and why people are having trouble is that to progress you have to farm items, and the minimum is the same with the maximum (on inferno), so near perfect stats on items (we're specifically talking about iLv = mob Lv; which is the current case). Because the margin of error on items is just so close to zero it's like hitting a brick wall, otherwise there's not much of an issue. At least on hardcore you won't be playing stupid even with perfect gear; it's just not worth it. This shouldn't come as a surprise since the entire difficulty is meant to be "an unbalanced / unfair version of the game". The 1.03 patch should work to solve this issue by giving (reasonable) access to higher iLv items so it's not such a kick in the teeth and gimmicky.
That's a huge issue, and I('m glad it's going to be resolved. And Blizzard meaning it to be stupid, doesn't make it any less stupid. In Diablo 2, Uber Tristram was meant to be intentionally very insane, but you didn't need to enter it for the best items-- just one. If you don't stick to inferno, then nothing you find will be worth a damn, and well, the auction house isn't fun then.

And that's the other thing. When you beat hell mode @ level 60, you can't level anymore and any hell items you find are going to be marginal improvements at best. With a limit on character slots there's just very little to do and the fact that there's no character customization leading to the only thing able to distinguish your character being gear. On the other hand, In D2, playing on the last official level granted you a chance to find godly items virtually anywhere meaning there was always a incentive to play. In D3 this incentive lies in Inferno. Unless one wants to try that upcoming pvp with hell gear. Just no...

In any case, they admit there's something wrong with it, and thus the fixes will be a good thing.


Quote:
Because you can skip the regular mobs if you find them unfavorable; can't skip the butcher. If you can't beat it, you can't progress.
Lol, if you can't beat regular mobs, what makes you think you stand a chance against the bosses? If you try to run through then you'll just get flanked in act 2.
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Old 2012-06-09, 20:28   Link #2518
Flying Dagger
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For ranged:
Glass cannons are very cheap to build. You can probably get 1/2 of what you want while lvling.

I have a 890 dps 1 hander on my barb with some str on it but it has no socket/life on hit (my reg weapon is a 900 Loh 650dps weapon with vit). Using the higher dps weapon allows me to mow down trash packs in Act 3 but elites are ever so dangerous without LoH (my weapons holds ALL my LoH).
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Old 2012-06-09, 20:47   Link #2519
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Oh great, now I'm getting friends request from spambots, and getting spammed with a shitload of spam every I got logged on which sometimes covers messages from other friends. I guess I should thank them for the forced channel join. And they didn't know this would happen? Did 13 years of this shit in Diablo 2 not teach them anything? Why can't I make my own channels? Why are there features missing that were there 10 years ago?

I would call whoever designed this retarded, but that would be giving them too much credit.
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Old 2012-06-09, 20:50   Link #2520
Myssa Rei
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Ugh, is it just me, or is there no noticeable increase in cash drops between Hell and Inferno? I'm not seeing how any of you were able to get more than 200k in gold, nevermind the millions some people appear to have...
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