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Old 2012-06-15, 17:17   Link #2661
Kokukirin
Shadow of Effilisi
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzrat View Post
Diablo 3, where gamers make money off the game lol...
Finally got my barb into inferno, kinda liking it better than my monk but then again, my monk's gear is a bit out of whack right now.
Well, in other A(MMO)RPGs it's mostly the botters getting to make money off the game. D3 RMAH merely provides a more convenient platform for all gamers to sell their gears and for Blizzard to get a cut of the profit. In the end it is probably good for everyone.

Quote:
I hope they would fix some of the monster's attack especially those long animation power attacks the melts melee cause they will auto track you even when you try to dodge it.
Yeah it seems the damage is already determined when the attack animation begins, but the game only shows the damage when the animation is done. I have a hard time with that.
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Old 2012-06-15, 17:33   Link #2662
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Technically, it "tags" the hit when you get in range, and then the damage only comes once the animation finishes. Hence the illusion that you're getting hit at range even if you moved away.

The thing to remember is that this isn't a mechanic unique to Diablo 3. It's actually a very common mechanic in alot of RTS games, just that in this particular case the implementation of the hitscan timing makes it look "bugged".
I am aware Starcraft and Starcraft 2 do this. However, this is because the focus is on many units, and the logistics on many units dodging would be too hard to display and conceive it with proper balance. In this case, it was a strict balance decision. It also has the excuse of being a strategy game so things are more abstract (such as guys popping out of constructed buildings)

But even Sc/sc2 offer a high level of control, and in fact a lot of the microing is focused around animation cancelling.


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I've only encountered very few superfast Elite monsters with the ability to deal fatal damage in a single hit, and that's in Inferno difficulty. Most of the instant spawn monsters like Belial's serpents or those skeletons you're talking about are easily killed provided you're DPS is high enough, even for ranged heroes like Demon Hunters. And melee units being naturally tougher rather negates the fact that they can get hit, and this before taking into account active life-steal, healing and damage negation spells.
It's true but not everyone has the best gear. Also, life steal is worthless in inferno because it is heavily nerfed. You can go for the expensive LOH though.
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And pray tell, how is this any different from Diablo 2? Testing my Barbarian on D3, he plays very similarly to my Barbarian in D2: dodge incoming ranged fire, tank what you can't dodge, and then slaughter them in melee with Bash and/or Whirlwind. And my Wizard plays identically to my Hardcore Sorceress then: Kite, spam spells, don't get close to anyone, and if they did they'll taste Frost Nova (I miss the days when it was spammable, I sometimes kept it with my right click ). Never had I needed to split-second dodge regular attacks by simply walking out, and nor did I have the reflexes to do that anyway. If I got hit in melee by non-jumping or non-teleporting mobs, that was my own fault for not positioning myself better.
Well, for one the Barbarian in Diablo 2 could easily tank many of the toughest mobs in the game by having obscene health with battle orders. You didn't need particularly good gear for that. (Let's not remind of ourselfs of the stupidity that is Call to Arms though), and sorcs had insane instant spammable teleport. They were just more well equipped and D2's crowds tend to be thinner.

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The "Action" in this action RPG is to make sure that when the time does come that you find yourself overwhelmed or in a pickle, that your spells and abilities are capable of extricating yourself out and prevail. Gear plays a big part in how effective you are yes - this is Diablo, of course it does - but I don't feel that D3 is any less "actiony" than D2 was, especially not with the presence of a hit-damage mechanic that's always been there.
But that's the thing. You're just forced to press a button once every x seconds, and it seems that every class just needs some get of jail free card and that makes the game feel uniform across classes. Cooldowns and the kiting required cause the pace of the game to slow down a lot, and cause it to be boring. Until you overgear and roflstomp the place... for a new kind of boring.

I'm not saying this doesn't work. Act 4 is well conceived to this kind of playstyle. But Act 2 was horrifically boring in every difficulty to me compared to act 1 and 3. Long narrow stretches of nothing following by those asshole bugs that just kite you.

And let's talk about the original Diablo. It didn't have to use overcrowding and the game was slow, but the pace of the game was consistent enough to keep you on your toes since every a few monsters could overwhelm you if you didn't know when to backout and conserve resources. In d3, you have to conserve resources, but the skills require such a long wait and potions suck so much that you just have to conserve time. Which involves a lot of sitting around. But I feel that's another problem-- they wanted health orbs to replace potions, but health orbs are so inconsistent that you are constantly at the mercy of the RNG, and it's easier to get them from trash mobs, meaning that they aren't reliable enough to help when it really matters.
Quote:
Note that my positive experience for D3 lasts as long as Hell difficulty. I still think Inferno relies far too much on artificial difficulty to be worth it. I'm waiting on their damage value adjustments in Patch 1.03 in order to continue through it.
I think the monster stats could stay ridiculous but with one change. Currently monsters themselves are glass cannons. One person told me to try the enchantress charm. You can see charmed zombies one-shotting their friends, so I bet they're complaining too.
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Old 2012-06-15, 17:45   Link #2663
Ryuudou
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
But even Sc/sc2 offer a high level of control, and in fact a lot of the microing is focused around animation cancelling.
Unfortunately they took a lot of animation canceling out in SC2. At least there's marine stutter step.
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Old 2012-06-15, 19:35   Link #2664
Archon_Wing
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Blah, how annoying. After being almost killed with an enrage timer since an illusionist asshole kept spamming it @ 1/4 life I decided to start a Demon Hunter to see issues from the other side. Spent 23k on leveling weapons til 60. I think I'm set.

Spoiler:
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Old 2012-06-15, 19:44   Link #2665
Flying Dagger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Blah, how annoying. After being almost killed with an enrage timer since an illusionist asshole kept spamming it @ 1/4 life I decided to start a Demon Hunter to see issues from the other side. Spent 23k on leveling weapons til 60. I think I'm set.

Spoiler:
Another melee has fallen to the dark side!

Buy yourself a socketed helm as well for +%xp.
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Old 2012-06-15, 20:05   Link #2666
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Dagger View Post
Another melee has fallen to the dark side!

Buy yourself a socketed helm as well for +%xp.
Well, I need to find out for myself.

Thanks for the suggestion. Should I bother attempting to buy any IAS stuff while leveling?
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Old 2012-06-15, 20:19   Link #2667
Waven
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Currently doing siegebreaker runs, finally feeling more comfortable in A3 but it demanded alot of getting used to as well as upping my reaction time.

I know DH is one of the easier classes to advance through inferno but don't think it's faceroll heaven.
"Glass cannon" doesn't even come close to common DH playstyle, more like butterfly cannon - In A3 every attack that is not mitigated by smokescreen or dodged means certain death, it's sometimes like playing a bullet hell shooter.
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Old 2012-06-15, 20:20   Link #2668
iceyfw
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
Well, I need to find out for myself.

Thanks for the suggestion. Should I bother attempting to buy any IAS stuff while leveling?
nah don't bother with IAS gear while lvling. i advise you to also not buy any IAS gear once you hit 60 until patch 1.03 hits live.
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Old 2012-06-15, 20:20   Link #2669
Flying Dagger
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No - not worth the $. Your bows with red gems will already allow you to do a lot more dps than the level is tuned for. 1-60 goes by in 2 days if you are efficient about it.

I would recommend to not just go pure dex stacking but instead get a few vitality gems when you hit nightmare and hell. While you do less dps: having to run back on death is worse.

I like hungering arrow+twin chakrams while leveling (elemental arrow is a bit slow). Caltrops+vault (with tactical advantage) will be sufficient for kiting. Get the bat companion as well. Smoke screen not too useful while leveling as well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Waven View Post
Currently doing siegebreaker runs, finally feeling more comfortable in A3 but it demanded alot of getting used to as well as upping my reaction time.

I know DH is one of the easier classes to advance through inferno but don't think it's faceroll heaven.
"Glass cannon" doesn't even come close to common DH playstyle, more like butterfly cannon - In A3 every attack that is not mitigated by smokescreen or dodged means certain death, it's sometimes like playing a bullet hell shooter.

its not like we got traps that immobilize elites, we got a primary attack that seeks target off screen, or bombs that we can plant on the ground that does a ton of damage...
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Old 2012-06-15, 22:06   Link #2670
aohige
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And rememer kids, once you hit 40s, grab a reduced req lvl60 weapon!

Facerolling NM and Hell like it was below Normal is fun, fun, fun!
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Old 2012-06-16, 05:45   Link #2671
Myssa Rei
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My alternative character is a male Wizard by the way... Whom I named Kyon. Heh.

Anyway, is it more economical to just buy a melee weapon to boost DPS, or should I just stick with a wand? Still not high-enough a level to figure out what mix of skills work for me at this point (level 12).
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Old 2012-06-16, 06:19   Link #2672
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myssa Rei View Post
Anyway, is it more economical to just buy a melee weapon to boost DPS, or should I just stick with a wand? Still not high-enough a level to figure out what mix of skills work for me at this point (level 12).
Swords or any one-handed weapon should work for a Wizard at normal. I got to Nightmare using a socketed axe on my Wizard

You'd only really want to buy a wand for the Wizard-only bonuses like Max Arcane Power (otherwise, what's the point?), but if you feel you can live without it then any weapon with high DPS will do.
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Old 2012-06-16, 09:00   Link #2673
SagaraSouske
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Just having a decent crossbow with crit dmg and over 1.1k dps would cost you more then 100k for a DH. Even in blues you prob need a bit more then 100k to have an effective farming DH. Any IAS ring, amulet, glove are gonna be at least 100k, especially if you want crit or dex. Boots with movement 12% and dex will cost more then 100k. If you say 1.5 - 2 M worth of gear, that's more reasonable.

And as a melee trying to farm stuff, you don't go pure defense, you balance defense and offense such that you don't get one shot but are able to pump out more dps with dw/2h. Dying is ok as long as you can clear stuff fast and kill elites in reasonable amount of time, even if using the zoning trick for CDs.

As a monk, once you start hitting 650+ all resist, 5k armor unbuffed (achievable with less then 5 M), have 20k unbuffed dps with 800ish LOH you can farm siegebreaker fairly easily. It gets easier and easier as you up your dps while maintaining your defensive stats. Once you hit 40k unbuffed dps, you can pretty much do a run in 15-20 min. A similarly geared DH while able to put out 100k dps, still get one shot by spear thrower and other ranged trash mob if not careful. It will take significantly more investment to have high dps and high defense for a DH.
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Old 2012-06-16, 09:05   Link #2674
aohige
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^DH has it easy.

1k damage fist weapons costs like 20-100m for Monks.
DH is possibly the cheapest character to gear up.
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Old 2012-06-16, 12:02   Link #2675
felix
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Originally Posted by aohige View Post
^DH has it easy.

1k damage fist weapons costs like 20-100m for Monks.
DH is possibly the cheapest character to gear up.
HC pretty much has proven DH is a lot of damage and little else... nobody has played it and not died. Many who've played it (and keep trying) have had countless deaths. So it evens out. After the patch goes live, if the repair costs are in, DH should become indirectly expensive.

Also I keep switching to my HC monk, over my SC DH, just because playing DH is actually god damn hard. It's so much easier to play Monk, then running and dodging every single stupid thing on the screen as DH. On DH even with stupid gear on you can at most take one blow if you don't skill-dodge... yeah great, the whole concept of HP bar is practically useless...
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Old 2012-06-16, 12:23   Link #2676
Myssa Rei
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So, finally managed to kill the Butcher (and incidentally, not even a single death on the way there from my start at Leoric's Manor), and the start of Act 2 is staring me at the face. Hmm. Judging from the previous posts here, I guess I'll just stay and farm Act I for a while...
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Old 2012-06-16, 13:10   Link #2677
zarqu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SagaraSouske View Post
Just having a decent crossbow with crit dmg and over 1.1k dps would cost you more then 100k for a DH.
These things go for tens of millions on the European auction house. But I agree DHs have it easy when compated to melee; I did Act I - II with a 800 dps crossbow (Belial was a pain) and mostly self-found gear. I upgraded my crossbow to one with 930 dps/100 dex/one socket. Think it cost me like 800k (it was a true bargain). After that, any +IAS/+crit dmg/+dex gloves/amulet/ring will cost me millions. Currently, my +190 dex/15% ias/100 vita amulet would go for 2,5m at least.

I urge every melee to try out the DH. It's very rewarding when you can kite around an elite pack, kill some trash in between and survive without a single death (if you get lucky on certain procs). On the other hand, gameplay can be very frustrating and demoralizing, especially from Act III onwards. Everything one-shots you if you don't spend 10m on Monk gear (on Europe) and even then you can tank 1-2 hits from trash mobs. Naturally fast "Fast" elites (Burrowers) will kill you. My tactic is to just GY zerg them etc. In that sense, the DH is the worst class for me; I very much prefer the D2 (LoD) way of not dying often, but getting severely punished if you do.

Anyways, started leveling my Barb a while back. Lvl 39 now, Act II NM. I'm terrible when it comes to twinking; I can't help but buy upgrades every couple of levels (mainly shields/weapons). I can say it's pretty damn fun at the moment. My last leveled character in D2 SP was a BotD wielding pseudo-Titan Barb (enough in Vita to get 2k life with BO).

Thankg God for dyes.
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Old 2012-06-16, 13:51   Link #2678
Flying Dagger
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http://d3db.com/news/id/268-datamine...es-unofficial/

IAS to be nerfed severely.
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Old 2012-06-16, 13:55   Link #2679
Archon_Wing
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Adding an enrage timer to Belial.

Just fucking brilliant. Though I guess it never reaches that part.
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Old 2012-06-16, 13:57   Link #2680
LoweGear
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The attack speed nerf is certainly severe, though I myself won't be feeling the effects on my characters due to their low level yet. I can see all the online rage this'll generate though.

Although only 100 gold to craft a Flawless Square now? Guess it'll be time to merge all those gems I have around
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