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Old 2012-07-18, 20:20   Link #3241
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
The wealth is concentrated towards the top? Isn't that what economy always is?
To some degree yes, but it's worse in d3 due to the massive amounts of exploits that were put in the beginning and the increased repair costs hampering people that couldn't get into act 2 pre-patch.

The only reason why it was so easy to buy stuff to clear inferno so fast is that people used the exploit to get into act 3/4 and sell the stuff onto the AH. And let's not forget about the bots.
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Old 2012-07-18, 21:55   Link #3242
TheForsaken
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But your point is? If things get easier, why complain?
Why should I care if there are some dudes having billions of gold?
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Old 2012-07-18, 22:50   Link #3243
Archon_Wing
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
But your point is? If things get easier, why complain?
Why should I care if there are some dudes having billions of gold?
My point was that loads of people farming inferno, especially pre-patch wasn't supposed to be as fast as it did happen. Even Blizzard said that it was faster than anticipated, and rightfully so.

I'm not sure how things being easier has anything to do with anything, so obviously that has nothing to do with my point.

On another level, they can flood the market with items, causing gold to become increasingly more and more worthless causing a greater seperation between people that have things and people that don't. The biggest example is people who weren't set up for farming inferno adequately before the repair patch. Which is already happening at an accelerated rate due to the failures of gold sinks that have been put in.

And you should care, because cheating is bad and devalues any gains made by people that didn't cheat. The final result can be seen in its predecessor Diablo 2, where the entire economy is based on counterfeit goods, and there are more duped/botted items than legit ones, and naturally practically everything is worthless except the godliest of godliest items. However, in D2, you could beat the game with any gear almost, and thus you didn't have to care about buying items. In D3, even people that play by themselves need to care because the entire game is online, and they will most likely need to use at least the GAH to finish the game.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-07-18 at 23:03.
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Old 2012-07-24, 03:29   Link #3244
Archon_Wing
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And another exploit with wizards runs unchecked for a month.

Quitting softcore, if anyone wants anything (not that I have anything left of value once I sell my main gear) just ask. Once my hardcore characters die, it's gg. I'm never buying a Blizzard product again.

It's been fun, but this isn't the same company I knew.
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Old 2012-07-24, 04:14   Link #3245
Myssa Rei
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Hmm, first time I've heard of it, then again I don't loiter around the forums connected to the game. ^^;
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Old 2012-07-24, 06:51   Link #3246
Wigwams
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the F. just got 3 set items today... 0 since launch till now.
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Old 2012-07-24, 07:19   Link #3247
Kyero Fox
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^ Someone got freakin lucky, be careful today might be your last day on earth with THAT kind of luck XD
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Old 2012-07-24, 08:36   Link #3248
TheForsaken
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Let me see, since launch I've found two set items, sold both.
Five legendaries, two are high level enough to produce Brimstones, other three are kept as souvenirs
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Old 2012-07-24, 13:00   Link #3249
triskelion
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archon_Wing View Post
My point was that loads of people farming inferno, especially pre-patch wasn't supposed to be as fast as it did happen. Even Blizzard said that it was faster than anticipated, and rightfully so.

I'm not sure how things being easier has anything to do with anything, so obviously that has nothing to do with my point.
I played a Barb pre-1.03 and was farming Inferno Act 3/4. People just didn't know what to do, and didn't experiment with their skills enough before they all cried and made Blizzard nerf everything. I wasn't even doing any of the Tyrael glitches, Goblin farming, etc, so you can count those out.

This was the time when Justice Lanterns went for 500k (all the Barbs wanted to dual wield) and no one used revenge. I think the nerf ruined the game, making everything easier. I stormed through all my usual farming spots once 1.03 came out, and made even more gold than usual.

So yes, when they made it easier - for those that could actually farm those places pre-patch, it ruins the economy regardless.
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Old 2012-07-24, 17:05   Link #3250
Archon_Wing
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A great majority of the items even possible to buy are thanks to exploits though. There are of course people that farmed legitly, but the scale wasn't to that degree. Of all the things Blizzard did wrong, their estimations weren't that off.

The problem is when they went in the other direction. The nerf hit too hard, and then the repair costs made everything less fun. Hell, what's wrong with trying to kill the same pack for more than a few times.

Also, no it didn't ruin the economy just because noobs can farm act 1 inferno. It was ruined because Act 1 Inferno was endgame and there's no incentive to move beyond it. What they should have done is make good ilvl 61 and 62 items drop, while the later acts should have lots of 63s. Due to the difficulty spikes still, all people want now is just enough gear for the weaker act 1/act 2. Why would you get better items? Farming for the sake of farming is pointless.

Let's take an extreme example. What's the point of Act 4 inferno? Nothing. The act is too short to farm, and it's in the same class as act 3. The only reasons are bragging rights and achievements.

I've said it elsewhere, but balance changes should not to be the degree of 40-50% without proper testing. It needs to be gradual. Nerfing monster damage by 40%, nerfing ias by 50%, increasing repair costs by 6x aren't smart changes regardless of intent.

I'm currently selling all of my gear on the RMAH for whatever piddling they can get. My current weapon is a 850 dps socketed monk weapon with dex. What can I get on the AH for that now? Nope, not even 2 million. I see 950 dps socketed weapons in that price range all of a sudden and there's tons. I didn't even see that 1-2 weeks ago. But mine just sold for $10 on the RMAH so I guess who cares.

I also experimented one more time with all the reject gear in my stash and spend 100k more gold to test something. With the reject gear, it's a mere 9.5k dps, though resists are 750ish with 4500 armor and 700~ loh/25k hp. Still enough to smash act 1, though I still get those 10k repair bills for not dying. >.> Must have been really boring had you reached inferno post-patch and they wouldn't be sporting a 3.8k enchantress either-- might as well just gathered gf gear and run nightmare til you fall asleep.

I stopped when I came across a elite ghostly miner pack that kept fucking spamming nightmare/arcane on me. I ragequit immediately after,5 stacks be damned. Did I die? No, my life never went below 50%. But I don't consider being unable to control your character for most of the fight while your enchantress shoots them down to be fun.

The game doesn't reward for advancing, and thus nobody cares anyways.

There are also no viable gold sinks besides repair costs. Everyone has 3 tabs by now, crafting can only craft ivl 62, and gems are just vanity items for the rich, for the most part.

But you're right about one thing-- I actually liked the game more pre-patch, even with the retarded and unfair difficulty. Had they only nerfed the stupid elite affixes (which they haven't, and in fact buffed), made boss drops not suck, I wouldn't be complaining as much.
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Last edited by Archon_Wing; 2012-07-24 at 17:30.
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Old 2012-07-24, 17:47   Link #3251
Fran
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was farming ACT 2 inferno awhile back, now i remember why i hated farming that act.
those invisible snakes + drops were just as bad as act 1...

i'm going back to ACT 1 again, thank you. and i'm not dreaming of farming act III yet,
i'll need at least 70K DPS or something before i can farm it effectively. right now,
i'm standing still at 43k DPS with my DH, things in act 3 just doesnt fall fast enough...the elites that is.

so once again, i'm looking at ACT 1. yay! damn it, i think i need to quit this game
for now until blizzard fix those legendaries stat and other KRAPS. other than that,
this game is just not fun. i wish i can at least play with my little bro., but those
monsters have WAY too much HP and there isn't really any advantage playing
with others, other than making the game more harder and STUPID...lol.
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Old 2012-07-24, 18:20   Link #3252
Archon_Wing
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The good thing about act 1 is that you can go all out with GF/MF stuff and just stack DPS with just a little bit of survival. The blazing speed of which you can mow down the elites is probably the most fun way of farming atm.

If you can get your bro to wear mf/gf too, and share drops, then it can work well. Move fast and collect mobs in a bunch before bothering to open fire.
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Old 2012-07-24, 18:41   Link #3253
triskelion
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I'll agree with most of that, to an extent. Because I could kill the elites quickly in Act 3 and 4 easily, it didn't make sense for me to farm in the lower levels where the percentages were lower.

Pre 1.03, farming Act 3/4 was mandatory if you wanted new gear. I was doing the Pony level with friends, which is technically Act 3/4 drops, and I noticed I got a lot of ilvl63 items there. Once the patch came out, the illusion of "more drops for everything" was brought out with the charts they showed. I actually got even less ilvl63 items, and got more ilvl61s and 62s. The patches were designed for those stuck in Act 1, and never thought about those already in the higher acts.

I've already sold all my gears, items, etc on the RMAH when it first came out. Too bad the RMAH has died down after the first week. Some people would just buy anything..
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Old 2012-07-26, 02:45   Link #3254
Myssa Rei
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In some ways, I'm having a lot more fun with my Daemonhunter (just made level 60 today) than my monk, but in some ways it's a lot more frustrating. I can kill stuff a lot faster in Inferno I've found, but the class just folds like wet tissue paper if a blue mob as much looks in its direction it's not funny, especially given the lack of any defensive skills aside from Smokescreen. Which is why it's mind-boggling to see people make MELEE builds of the class. o_O

Edit: Incidentally we noticed something while going through Act IV Hell. Is it just me, or did the damage of Subjugators just go up to unreasonable levels? I think I was even over-geared by the time I started ascending Crystal Spire (with resists hovering around 400+, and 32k Health, 4k-ish armor) and I STILL was going down in two to three hits from their grenades.
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Old 2012-07-26, 03:20   Link #3255
Duo Maxwell
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The melee build depends heavy on life steal/on hit, as far as I know. It does work, like how melee Wizard works, but it also requires some gears until you see the positive result.
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Old 2012-07-26, 07:28   Link #3256
TheForsaken
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Trust me, tank DH is cheap and ridiculously effective.
Unless your monk or barb have godly high end gear (or the barb using Double Tornado), DH is the better tank.

Just imagine you're standing on the Desecration pool, surrounded by several dozens mob, hit by the Arcane beams several times, and laughing until all the enemies are dead
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Old 2012-07-26, 08:51   Link #3257
Kyero Fox
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheForsaken View Post
Trust me, tank DH is cheap and ridiculously effective.
Unless your monk or barb have godly high end gear (or the barb using Double Tornado), DH is the better tank.

Just imagine you're standing on the Desecration pool, surrounded by several dozens mob, hit by the Arcane beams several times, and laughing until all the enemies are dead
What mythical build is this? O_
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Old 2012-07-26, 10:30   Link #3258
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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What mythical build is this? O_
Probably a Crit build that resets the smoke screen timer. Crit builds + proc on Crit does very powerful things.
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Old 2012-07-26, 10:51   Link #3259
TheForsaken
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No, tank DHs don't use Smoke screen. They use Caltrop, which has ridiculously high LOH coefficient.

Let's say that you have 1000 LOH (easily obtainable for a DH). If one enemy stands on your Caltrop, you get 1334 life per second. Caltrops can stack up to 10, so it is 13340 life per second. FOR ONE ENEMY. If ten enemies surround you, then it is 133400 life per second.

So tank DHs only need effective health high enough to take burst damage. As long as they don't get oneshot, they are immortal.

Of course the problem is to keep mobs on your Caltrops. So this build is weak against ranged enemies that keep moving. And Invulnerable & Shielding could be a nuisance too as LOH won't proc.
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Old 2012-07-27, 12:09   Link #3260
Myssa Rei
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Weeeeell, after some false starts, I was able to get to Inferno Siegebreaker at last. Siegebreaker beast itself isn't as hard as I'd imagined -- heck I just tanked the guy while my wizard friend spammed Ice Storm on it until it died. Getting there was something altogether, as we kept on getting retarded affixes on the elites on the way. I think out of the ones we ran into, we killed only two blue mobs, while we ran away from everything else.

Heh, heroic? None of that here!

As for my Daemonhunter, ah, currently at the Lord of Lies. Interestingly enough, the roadblock isn't Belial himself, but the LAG that suddenly occurs when he changes to his second form. Really, I've been killed more by lag than by the monsters tonight!
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