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Old 2011-05-13, 19:39   Link #641
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
[SPOILER="First Blizzard Post"]After reading all three posts, I'm still not seeing them calling single players a minority. He was telling those people on that forum complaining about not being able to use mercs on higher difficulties and essentially posting on a hidden forum that they aren't a majority of the people that will be buying the game. Let's be honest, people who use a forum for a game that's not even out yet, aren't a majority no matter how you slice it.
Blizzard wants me to play Multiplayer by stopping Companions from levelling up past 25, making them impossible to use in Nightmare or higher. This is a deliberate decision in order to discourage single player from being fun past that point. This also means Blizzard knows that I would enjoy having viable Companions in Nightmare and Hell, and they can't have me doing that.

There is no reason to give companions a 25 level cap except to punch me in the face for not playing multiplayer.
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Old 2011-05-13, 21:17   Link #642
NoLongerSane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vallen Chaos Valiant View Post
Bad news.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...=3000&pageNo=2

Mercs are designed to be entirely useless past normal difficulty. They stop levelling up past level 25. The intention was to "ease" Single-player gamers into playing Multiplayer by giving them someone to play with, then take it all away so they would have to play online with other people instead.

Frankly I am insulted by this. And DIII has been bumped off my buy-list until further notice.
I am a bit disheartn from reading that. I too have valued my Merc and made sure that they were near the same level I was when doing the harder difficulties. I am also very avid in playing multiplayer and the reason for that was the mercs that I would bring in along to help out the others during quest and level ups.

I am hoping that Blizzard changes their minds on this.
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Old 2011-05-13, 22:55   Link #643
LoweGear
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I dunno about you, but my experience with the Merc system in D2 was that once you hit the latter parts of the game like in Hell (the level, not the difficulty), or Harrogath they tend to die really fast. So much so in fact that I practically soloed the game in Nightmare and Hell difficulty due to how many times my Merc kept on dying. (And since I liked my mercs it was rather disheartening).

Also, I don't think we have all the information here. While we know Followers will only level up to 25, we don't know how that kind of level scales in relation to the game, or if the leveling system for the Followers will be similar to the player at all. And given that they said you don't even require followers to finish Normal difficulty due to how easy it's supposed to be, then it points to the possibility of a player wanting to use Followers in Nightmare and Hell difficulty to ease the pain. Hell (pun intended), we don't even know how the game will scale across Normal, Nightmare and Hell in relation to your character and your Follower.

Finally, the Follower's system is not the merc system for one reason: as stated, you don't have to return to camp to pick up a dead Follower, in fact they don't "die" at all, unlike mercs - they just become unuseable for a short period of time, then get back into the action immediately. So you're never truly alone if you choose to bring your Follower with you and thus you no longer have the frustration of having to go back to camp to get them back. Hence even in Hell difficulty they should still be viable enough on paper, just not as a secondary powerhouse. In the first place, the Followers system (and arguably the predecessor Mercenary system) was not designed to be your crutch in a game; if you're playing badly, no amount of superpowered Merc or Follower is going to save your ass. You're the one who's supposed to be playing the game, not your Follower. And if you're bringing along the Follower for the lore and interactions they bring, then how they fare in combat shouldn't matter as much, given that they won't technically "die" on you.
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Old 2011-05-13, 23:01   Link #644
Kyero Fox
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Who needs followers or mercs when you have 30 skeleton warriors at your disposal GOD i miss being a necro...
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Old 2011-05-13, 23:22   Link #645
NoLongerSane
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
Who needs followers or mercs when you have 30 skeleton warriors at your disposal GOD i miss being a necro...
Lol, I recall those days. I played WereBear along with a Merc that specialized in the defensive aura along with Heart of Wolv. Party up with a Necro that raised those numbers and had the screen glowing with blue and orange.
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Old 2011-05-13, 23:23   Link #646
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
I dunno about you, but my experience with the Merc system in D2 was that once you hit the latter parts of the game like in Hell (the level, not the difficulty), or Harrogath they tend to die really fast. So much so in fact that I practically soloed the game in Nightmare and Hell difficulty due to how many times my Merc kept on dying. (And since I liked my mercs it was rather disheartening).

Also, I don't think we have all the information here. While we know Followers will only level up to 25, we don't know how that kind of level scales in relation to the game, or if the leveling system for the Followers will be similar to the player at all. And given that they said you don't even require followers to finish Normal difficulty due to how easy it's supposed to be, then it points to the possibility of a player wanting to use Followers in Nightmare and Hell difficulty to ease the pain. Hell (pun intended), we don't even know how the game will scale across Normal, Nightmare and Hell in relation to your character and your Follower.

Finally, the Follower's system is not the merc system for one reason: as stated, you don't have to return to camp to pick up a dead Follower, in fact they don't "die" at all, unlike mercs - they just become unuseable for a short period of time, then get back into the action immediately. So you're never truly alone if you choose to bring your Follower with you and thus you no longer have the frustration of having to go back to camp to get them back. Hence even in Hell difficulty they should still be viable enough on paper, just not as a secondary powerhouse. In the first place, the Followers system (and arguably the predecessor Mercenary system) was not designed to be your crutch in a game; if you're playing badly, no amount of superpowered Merc or Follower is going to save your ass. You're the one who's supposed to be playing the game, not your Follower. And if you're bringing along the Follower for the lore and interactions they bring, then how they fare in combat shouldn't matter as much, given that they won't technically "die" on you.
Blizzard has stated as a fact that followers are useless in anywhere but Normal difficulty. This isn't something I made up, but something Blizzard had spell out. And part of that is the level 25 limit. No hell, no nightmare.

And why is that? Not for preventing multiplayer imbalance, surely, as they don't even show up in multiplayer at all. Blizzard told us out right that they made the followers useless from nightmare onwards to FORCE me to play with other people.

I will not be bullied into playing multiplayer. I have been punched in the face by Blizzard one too many times, it is time for me to move on. I can't become the "oh so precious" multiplayer gamer Blizzard is insistent that I should be.

I didn't want a follower to make the game easier; I want to play a game that is FUN, which the followers offered as additional game depth. But it seems playing Single Player for FUN is no longer welcomed in the house Blizzard built.
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Old 2011-05-13, 23:52   Link #647
LoweGear
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Before I attempt a reply... where is the original developer post stating the level limit and the "uselessness" of the Followers beyond Normal? And no, I'm not asking about Bashiok's follow up reply. All I'm seeing are speculations and impressions by players from a Blizzard post I can't find, and hence may or may not be subject to the same interpretation. Even in Bashiok's followup post, I don't see anything about Followers being "useless" in higher difficulties, just an explanation of the function of Followers at lower levels.
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Old 2011-05-14, 00:00   Link #648
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Before I attempt a reply... where is the original developer post stating the level limit and the "uselessness" of the Followers beyond Normal? And no, I'm not asking about Bashiok's follow up reply. All I'm seeing are speculations and impressions by players from a Blizzard post I can't find, and hence may or may not be subject to the same interpretation. Even in Bashiok's followup post, I don't see anything about Followers being "useless" in higher difficulties, just an explanation of the function of Followers at lower levels.
I think they are implying that followers don't have any useful function at higher levels other than "meatshield".
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Old 2011-05-14, 00:03   Link #649
LoweGear
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Well, a meatshield that revives on the spot and is likely to be in battle far longer than you as a result. I couldn't even do that with mercs
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Old 2011-05-14, 00:22   Link #650
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Well, a meatshield that revives on the spot and is likely to be in battle far longer than you as a result. I couldn't even do that with mercs
Ok. Maybe "horde collector for AOE" too.

I never bought any merc or follower in D2 anyway.
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Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-14, 01:26   Link #651
Duo Maxwell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
Ok. Maybe "horde collector for AOE" too.

I never bought any merc or follower in D2 anyway.
I didn't see the merc is useful in D2 anyway. It's always been either I'm playing with my friends, or I'm playing "alone". On higher difficulty, it's really hard to keep them alive, and I can do everything by myself, so I don't really see the point of the mercenary, aside from "faking multiplay" that make me feel less lonely when playing.
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Old 2011-05-14, 03:36   Link #652
Demongod86
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Mercs in D2 were amazing. As a sorc, you had one hold an insight runeword for you, equip him with the defense gear he needs to stay alive and preferably tal rasha's helmet or vampiric gaze and wham infinite mana.

Or if you were a lightning sorcy, better yet, infinity=breaks all light immunes = RAAAAAAAAAAAAPE.

AUra mercs were amazing tanks and provided VERY useful auras.
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Old 2011-05-14, 05:04   Link #653
Vallen Chaos Valiant
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
Before I attempt a reply... where is the original developer post stating the level limit and the "uselessness" of the Followers beyond Normal? And no, I'm not asking about Bashiok's follow up reply. All I'm seeing are speculations and impressions by players from a Blizzard post I can't find, and hence may or may not be subject to the same interpretation. Even in Bashiok's followup post, I don't see anything about Followers being "useless" in higher difficulties, just an explanation of the function of Followers at lower levels.
http://forums.battle.net/thread.html...78054182631#11
Quote:
They're also tuned so that they become very weak starting in Nightmare, and then are completely unusable in Hell. Even if you're playing alone, you will probably not be using Followers past Normal - - you can try but they're going to just be one-shot back to back. They're there as a bit of flavor, to help get people into the mindset of co-op if they're a bit reluctant, and... that's about it. They won't be usable at end-game, and they'll never replace the abilities and power that another player can bring.
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Old 2011-05-14, 05:34   Link #654
LoweGear
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So that's where it was.

In any case, with the beta release slated for the following months, we'll see whether to go ahead with such their intent, or change it based off player feedback. Even if they don't change it though, the execution might be much different than their initial intention, as is what usually happens from Alpha > Beta > Full versions. I don't put judgement on a game until I actually get my hands on it.
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Old 2011-05-14, 09:41   Link #655
felix
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Does the game scale in difficulty based on how many players you have in a party?
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Old 2011-05-14, 09:45   Link #656
Xacual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Does the game scale in difficulty based on how many players you have in a party?
Of course it will. Pretty much all games in this genre do after all.
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Old 2011-05-14, 10:09   Link #657
felix
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Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
Of course it will. Pretty much all games in this genre do after all.
Well, in the game footage the way I understood it was you can just bring someone in at any time; and I expect anyone can leave at any time too.
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Old 2011-05-14, 10:12   Link #658
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoweGear View Post
So that's where it was.

In any case, with the beta release slated for the following months, we'll see whether to go ahead with such their intent, or change it based off player feedback. Even if they don't change it though, the execution might be much different than their initial intention, as is what usually happens from Alpha > Beta > Full versions. I don't put judgement on a game until I actually get my hands on it.
I bet you won't put any judgement on the game until you put your hands on the female barbarian's ches- *is chopped into bits by a battleaxe*

Anyhow, if you want to give a verdict it will be a long wait. I don't think it will be out anytime this year.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2011-05-14, 10:54   Link #659
Xacual
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Quote:
Originally Posted by felix View Post
Well, in the game footage the way I understood it was you can just bring someone in at any time; and I expect anyone can leave at any time too.
Usually the game has a way of checking to see how many players are in the game and can adjust on the fly.
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Old 2011-05-14, 11:05   Link #660
LoweGear
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
I bet you won't put any judgement on the game until you put your hands on the female barbarian's ches- *is chopped into bits by a battleaxe*
You offend me by thinking I'm interested in anything but the fem!Barbarian's chest.

The fem!wizard's on the other hand...*vaporized*
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