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Old 2009-05-26, 03:17   Link #21
5cm.per.second
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Well it's probably easier to give a circumcision to an infant than waiting for him to grow up and getting it later. It's not like it's a crime just because the infant can't decide for himself. That's like being upset you couldn't pick your own name at birth like "No one asked me if I wanted this name! I just got stuck with it! Grrrr!"

Also, what does anyone really get out of a small piece of skin? Diabetics who lose everything from toes to fingers can be upset over their fate that they didn't choose. The guy who rages over losing a piece of foreskin needs to re-evaluate what's important.
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Old 2009-05-26, 03:20   Link #22
Thingle
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Originally Posted by 5cm.per.second View Post
The guy who rages over losing a piece of foreskin needs to re-evaluate what's important.
It is claimed that foreskins make way for better sex, because the glans loses sensitivity when not protected. That I don't personally know, since I only knew about the claim too late. It's not so important anyway.
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Old 2009-05-26, 04:25   Link #23
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Leaving aside the replies posted already, there had been studies on circumcision and its effects on sexually transmitted diseases reported in the media. OTOH, how rigorous they actually are might still be up for debate(?). The practice does seem to be changing from one where it is done automatically to a newborn to one more dependent on the parents' decision.
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Old 2009-05-26, 04:51   Link #24
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I saw the P&T video you're talking about. I'm surprised the number is as LOW as 60%! I figured it was much higher.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
It is claimed that foreskins make way for better sex, because the glans loses sensitivity when not protected. That I don't personally know, since I only knew about the claim too late. It's not so important anyway.
Yeah that's the big thing I consider. I'll be getting into some personal detail here so you might not want to click this I understand
Spoiler:
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Old 2009-05-26, 04:54   Link #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cheyannew View Post
My son was circumcised when he was born. Had I been more informed, and not have dealt with nearly 14 hours of hard labour and nearly a forced c-section I might've chosen differently, but as far as I knew, back then (1997) it was the normal proper way of things. I had never (and still to this day have never) seen an uncircumcised man. My husband, my male partner, and all my previous mates were all cut.

That being said, my partners decided to NOT circumcise their son. I'd have to ask them why exactly, I recall we had a discussion on it but that was a good 6+ years ago and I cannot recall it. Suffice to say it is becoming less "normal", I suspect, as time goes on. I daresay my grandson(s) may not be circumcised, and I'm OK with that; it's a case by case basis.

I cannot compare it with ear piercing, though, as it is an entirely different set of procedures, I do note we chose to NOT pierce our daughter's ears. 1, I had empowered and educated myself on what exactly I wanted out of things, 2, Don't know if she'd WANT her ears pierced. She'll get them pierced at her coming of age, as can my son.

Looking back, I kind of regret not knowing what I know now, I may not've circumcised him, as we're by NO means jewish or any other religious sect that'd require it. But it's too late now. As he gets older and our talks evolve from just the normal "prepare for sex talks" that we have now, to "what are your plans for your future family" type, then I'll bring up the subject, so he can educate himself BEFORE his mate is pregnant (if he has a female mate). Perhaps they will have the education needed to make the choice, that I did not.
Purely on the factor of 'taking away a child's free will' note, there's no other example I can give as a girl to having something done to me as a baby aside from that.
The diffrence being some parents will try to exercise as much 'free will' to their kids and do nothing until they're kids and can response and give their own opinions, some parents will take it as part of their responsibility and make the decidions for their kids based on what they believe is good for them without causing too much distress or harm.
As WK said, if he wants to do something to his dick, he'll make the damn choice himself.
(Well yes, you're thinking as an adult now..)
I countered that with, those who have had 'forced suffering' inflicted upon them as babies, typically come out fine generally cause we have no memories of said 'torture' in the first place and grow up with our bodies as they are. :\

You as an adult may feel twinges of regret, but if your son doesn't think much about it cause it's what he knows and is comfy with it, then case closed. I don't see the need for parents to justify all reasons to a child cause of their own frettings thus beginning to seed doubts and insecurites into the child.
If they ask 'mum, why did you decide on such for me', then explain as you will otherwise, like I said, I've no desire to go sue them for having my ears pierced, I doubt many kids are gonna turn against their parents all of a sudden on this case either. :\
(PS cheyannew, i've added ya to aim, dunno what time you typically are online, but that or skype is easier to continue of your pm. However many thanks for sending it to me) ^^
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
It is claimed that foreskins make way for better sex, because the glans loses sensitivity when not protected. That I don't personally know, since I only knew about the claim too late. It's not so important anyway.
:x
><;;;;;;
It's a shame we don't have a 'over 18+' section on this website to discuss adult topics, in this case:
"Circumcision and sexuality", that's a can of worms I'd love to open. *grins*

@Alchemist:
To compare a guy who is circumcised and a guy who isn't in terms of sensitivity, yes generally those with their glands covered are gonna be somewhat more sensitive than those without but by no means does it mean a circumcised man isn't gonna have a good time as he would if he had his foreskin intact.
That also depends on his sexual practices and working on whatever gets him off, to then say 'much more sensitivity = better sex, better orgasm, longer staying power', etc.
Let's just say on general basis of asthetics and hygiene, you may find women more.... accomdating to pleasing a guy to the hilt when circumcised.
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Last edited by Mystique; 2009-05-26 at 05:06.
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Old 2009-05-26, 05:06   Link #26
KimmyChan
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My boyfriend isn't circumcised And I wouldn't mind it if he was either
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Old 2009-05-26, 05:10   Link #27
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That's probably the best attitude. I mean if this is really the deciding factor in a relationship, very sad LOLz. Different matter for 'fitting in' and 'social norms.' Then of course there's the guy who sued the hospital cuz he didn't want to be circ'd ._.
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Old 2009-05-26, 06:37   Link #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
It's something done here when you're 11 or 12. That being said, you can consider it a rite of passage. Peer pressure to undergo it is extreme, especially among kids that age and you're not considered a real man if you don't undergo. Then again, I only found out about the benefits of an intact foreskin when I had mine removed, so it's moot.
My Filipino friend talked about what he remembered from his circumcision - and how much of a pain it had been for him. Particularly the sensitivity the head of the penis has after being circumcised due to a lack of contact with outside materials (largely cloth). It sounded so terrible that I shuddered at the thought. XD

From the perspective of a male who isn't circumsized, I'd like to point out that it is very possible to keep the foreskin and penis clean in general. My father passed down something he had learned from his father, which was that an uncircumcised guy should often forcibly retract his foreskin in order to help maintain hygiene, as well as reduce the pain of sudden retraction during the first sexual encounter. This provides a lot of benefits later on, so in the end I think the issue regarding hygiene isn't as powerful of a point as people have pointed out (assuming that other cultures have a similar sort of hidden rule amongst men).

That being said, for one who lives in the United States such as myself, I do feel an odd sense of isolation and worry since I have yet to meet another male who is uncircumcised, which is also why I'm surprised that only 60% of males in the United States are reported to be circumcised.
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Old 2009-05-26, 06:49   Link #29
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Interesting to note, circumcision is a fashion in japan now with most men undertaking the operation at late teens and early 20s purely
for cosmetic purpose. The cut look is considered masculine among the guys there.
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Old 2009-05-26, 07:18   Link #30
cheyannew
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Originally Posted by 5cm.per.second View Post
That's like being upset you couldn't pick your own name at birth like "No one asked me if I wanted this name! I just got stuck with it! Grrrr!" .
Except that, unlike a name, you can't sign a few papers and pay a small fee to change it
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Old 2009-05-26, 08:10   Link #31
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People, the problem *I* have with circumcision is the fact that it's done on someone who can't have a part in the decision. I like my foreskin well enough, thanks. Just let the damn kid decide when he gets old enough to understand the benefits and drawbacks of getting circumcised.

Quote:
Unlike the female mutilation in Africa, it doesn't negatively affect sexual function at all so that's a terrible comparison.
The foreskin's got a lot of nerve terminations that provide extra sensitiveness and more sexual pleasure. It's not just a piece of skin. Yes, it can get dirty, but so does your armpit. Just fucking take a bath and wash your damn penis.

Quote:
My Filipino friend talked about what he remembered from his circumcision - and how much of a pain it had been for him. Particularly the sensitivity the head of the penis has after being circumcised due to a lack of contact with outside materials (largely cloth). It sounded so terrible that I shuddered at the thought. XD
That's a huge part of the loss of the foreskin. The glans remains very sensitive when being covered by a piece of skin--I would imagine that if it were to disappear, the glans would eventually turn insensitive to the outside touch.
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Old 2009-05-26, 08:23   Link #32
Thingle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kylaran View Post
My Filipino friend talked about what he remembered from his circumcision - and how much of a pain it had been for him. Particularly the sensitivity the head of the penis has after being circumcised due to a lack of contact with outside materials (largely cloth). It sounded so terrible that I shuddered at the thought. XD
Yeah, it is but only for 5 days to one week, then you're a man. The glans adapts quite well and it's not the process itself that you'd try to not undergo, but the stitching afterwards (this hurts bad).

and the last thing you want to have is a hard-on... Wait until the sutures heal.
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Old 2009-05-26, 08:45   Link #33
Jazzrat
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
People, the problem *I* have with circumcision is the fact that it's done on someone who can't have a part in the decision. I like my foreskin well enough, thanks. Just let the damn kid decide when he gets old enough to understand the benefits and drawbacks of getting circumcised.

The foreskin's got a lot of nerve terminations that provide extra sensitiveness and more sexual pleasure. It's not just a piece of skin. Yes, it can get dirty, but so does your armpit. Just fucking take a bath and wash your damn penis.

That's a huge part of the loss of the foreskin. The glans remains very sensitive when being covered by a piece of skin--I would imagine that if it were to disappear, the glans would eventually turn insensitive to the outside touch.
Actually there's a lot of things that we do not have control of when we are young. Though i agree that circumcision should be something that kids decide on when they are aware of the consequence.

Most hygiene concerns can be alleviated by taking proper care and sexually related disease,well, i hope dont come in till they actually old enough.
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Old 2009-05-26, 09:43   Link #34
cheyannew
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Originally Posted by Thingle View Post
Yeah, it is but only for 5 days to one week, then you're a man.
Ack, this statement made me cringe.. what? That makes it sound like you're not a man if you're not circumcised, ffs.

Unless you're referring to how a certain culture views it, in which case it's still kind of messed up IMO but at least explainable... Mildly...
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Old 2009-05-26, 09:45   Link #35
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I honestly couldn't care less if my boyfriend's thingy was circumcised or not, it's still a part of him
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Old 2009-05-26, 11:11   Link #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
People, the problem *I* have with circumcision is the fact that it's done on someone who can't have a part in the decision. I like my foreskin well enough, thanks. Just let the damn kid decide when he gets old enough to understand the benefits and drawbacks of getting circumcised.
So? There are a lot of things that happen to infants that the parent greenlight without taking the child's future opinion into consideration. Like Measle vaccinations, for instance. There is a small risk for some severe side effects that come with the vaccination.



Quote:
The foreskin's got a lot of nerve terminations that provide extra sensitiveness and more sexual pleasure. It's not just a piece of skin. Yes, it can get dirty, but so does your armpit. Just fucking take a bath and wash your damn penis.

That's a huge part of the loss of the foreskin. The glans remains very sensitive when being covered by a piece of skin--I would imagine that if it were to disappear, the glans would eventually turn insensitive to the outside touch.
No.

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I really think your overplaying this.
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Old 2009-05-26, 11:22   Link #37
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Quote:
So? There are a lot of things that happen to infants that the parent greenlight without taking the child's future opinion into consideration. Like Measle vaccinations, for instance. There is a small risk for some severe side effects that come with the vaccination.
You're really really comparing a vaccine to a circumcision? Honestly?

A baby can die if he doesn't get vaccinated within six months of being born. I don't think you can argue something so drastic can happen if you don't get circumcised.

Quote:
No.

I'm not going to go into specifics of how much I interact with my penis, but I'm plenty sensitive sexually without most of my foreskin.
The foreskin does have a lot of nerve endings that provide extra sensibility. The frenulum, in particular, is one of the most sensitive parts of a non-circumcised penis.

Whether you realize or not is kinda pointless since apparently you haven't experienced non-circumcised sex (by the way, with some constant and determined effort the foreskin can actually be regrown with no surgical intervention required). I'm not saying you don't get any sensibility--I'm just saying it's not the same.

Quote:
I really think your overplaying this.
I'm not. Parents are deciding over their children in ways that go beyond vaccination and an ear piercing. Hygiene is a stupid reason, because the only way to get smegma is by being a dirty bastard who doesn't wash his penis. So what's the point? What's the reason to do get the baby through that and completely downplay whatever control he might have over his private parts?

---------------------------------------------

Either way, I'm straying a bit from my original intentions. I know already what I think about circumcision--what I wanted to ask is, what is the reason for it to be so common in the US? What sort of justification do doctors give to the parents?
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Last edited by WanderingKnight; 2009-05-26 at 11:33.
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Old 2009-05-26, 11:39   Link #38
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Originally Posted by WanderingKnight View Post
You're really really comparing a vaccine to a circumcision? Honestly?

A baby can die if he doesn't get vaccinated within six months of being born. I don't think you can argue something so drastic can happen if you don't get circumcised.
The first recommended measle vaccination are given 12-15 months after being born, not in the first six months due to the mother's natural antibodies. And yes, some parents pass on usually recommended Measles vaccinations becuase of possible, but only small amount of temporary risk. And Measles aren't even considered a big threat nowadays, kinda like tract infection, but more common.



Quote:
The foreskin does have a lot of nerve endings that provide extra sensibility. The frenulum, in particular, is one of the most sensitive parts of a non-circumcised penis.

Whether you realize or not is kinda pointless since apparently you haven't experienced non-circumcised sex (by the way, with some constant and determined effort the foreskin can actually be regrown with no surgical intervention required). I'm not saying you don't get any sensibility--I'm just saying it's not the same.
And you haven't experience circumcised sex before, so you can't prove that circumcized sex demonstrates less pleasure than un-circumcized sex.



Quote:
I'm not. Parents are deciding over their children in ways that go beyond vaccination and an ear piercing. Hygiene is a stupid reason, because the only way to get smegma is by being a dirty bastard who doesn't wash his penis. So what's the point? What's the reason to do get the baby through that and completely downplay whatever control he might have over his private parts?
*shrug*

The point is to prevent, however small, complications in infants, like UTI and penile infection. I don't like being compared to mutilated African women.

I'm just going to agree to disagree at this point and stop arguing. I'm circumcisized, and I haven't found a reason to go on a rampage about how my rights were violated and my manhood was taken away.

Last edited by Dilla; 2009-05-26 at 11:51.
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Old 2009-05-26, 11:51   Link #39
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Quote:
The first recommended measle vaccination are given 12-15 months after being born, not in the first six months due to the mother's natural antibodies. And yes, some parents pass on usually recommended Measles vaccinations becuase of possible, but only trace amount of risk. And Measles aren't even considered a big threat nowadays, kinda like tract infection, but more common.
Yes, sorry, my English got mixed up--I meant after six months have passed. But seriously, what the hell does it have to do with circumcision?

Quote:
And you haven't experience circumcised sex before, so you can't prove that circumcized sex demonstrates less pleasure than un-circumcized sex.
Nope, but as I (and the article I linked) said before, there's plenty of evidence of nerve endings present in the foreskin that provide more sensibility.

Quote:
The point is to prevent, however small, complications in infants, like UTI and penile infection.
The risk of those complications is so low it really doesn't warrant scarring the kid for life. Same deal with the possible complications after a vaccination (which probably just amount to some fever for a day in 95% of the cases).

Quote:
I don't like being compared to mutilated African women.
Sorry, but that's the way I see it. It's the same deal in the end--whatever your appreciation for what your parents decided is, it's still mutilating a child for no good reason at all. If you really want to get circumcised so much, why don't you decide to do it when you're older?
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Old 2009-05-26, 12:18   Link #40
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Well, I don't see a necessary point of the operation if the child can't decide and completely unnecessary unless your religion requires to. If it's not crucial to life, then if it's not broke, then don't fix it... and hygiene isn't a valid reason as along you take bath/showers and the most part, most people practice good hygiene practices in well developed nation, it's completely unnecessary psychological damage to the baby .

Also, it does not make you less of a man for not having it circumcised... it's a completely ridiculous claim.
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