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Old 2010-09-11, 11:52   Link #2821
KLGChaos
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66 raws are out... From what I can glean from the pictures:

Spoiler:
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Old 2010-09-11, 13:21   Link #2822
Jze0
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Awwwww I really want translations now. Ch 66 looks to be a fun chapter...

Spoiler for ch 66:
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Old 2010-09-11, 13:40   Link #2823
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Awwwww I really want translations now. Ch 66 looks to be a fun chapter...

Spoiler for ch 66:
Spoiler for 66:
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Old 2010-09-11, 13:53   Link #2824
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Spoiler for 66:
Spoiler for ch 66:
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Old 2010-09-11, 14:36   Link #2825
Last Carpet
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I can't wait to see a fight between the two councils. If anything I want to see Zenkichi vs Kumagawa. So we can see just what Zenkichi is. To Normal to be considered Abnormal, and too Abnormal to be considered Normal. He could go either way.

His desire to help and protect Medaka could have him seen as a Plus.

But to have spent 13 years with someone who is good at everything without even trying can't be helping his self esteem. His self-doubt and constant reminders that he's not good enough could easily make him into a Minus

(Personally, I want to see a Minus Zenkichi)

BTW

Can some give me the RAW's for 66?
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Old 2010-09-11, 14:43   Link #2826
AQVXZ11
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I'm sensing another "I told you so" moment being created here.



The first weeks have typically been good but I need to see a rise in how much it sells in the second week like other series have done as of late. Or even a rise in the first week really.

Medaka should be covered until the end of this year. By that time the chapter number should just be hitting the 80s and ironically it will be an extremely crucial time period from then on.
Really? I would think that Medaka has earned total immunity by this point. I mean it has improved in the rankings significantly, it sells very well and it has already lasted a pretty long time. At the very least, there will always be something else to cancel before Medaka Box is ever considered. Plus in another few months (I would say around summer of 2011) an anime will probably be announced and then it's golden. The only reason I think that Jump has allowed MB to survive this long is because they think the anime will be a cash cow. Sorry for the rant.
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Old 2010-09-11, 15:07   Link #2827
Doc Astaroth
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66 raws are out... From what I can glean from the pictures:

Spoiler:
What the...
Spoiler:
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Old 2010-09-11, 15:19   Link #2828
KLGChaos
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Really? I would think that Medaka has earned total immunity by this point. I mean it has improved in the rankings significantly, it sells very well and it has already lasted a pretty long time. At the very least, there will always be something else to cancel before Medaka Box is ever considered. Plus in another few months (I would say around summer of 2011) an anime will probably be announced and then it's golden. The only reason I think that Jump has allowed MB to survive this long is because they think the anime will be a cash cow. Sorry for the rant.
It's also the name factor. If any other author besides Ishin spent that much time in the bottom five for the first 30-40 chapters of it's life would have been canceled by chapter 30. Heck, many were.

At least Nishio seems to have found his rhythm and has improved.
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Old 2010-09-11, 16:08   Link #2829
Rejuvenation
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Originally Posted by AQVXZ11 View Post
Really? I would think that Medaka has earned total immunity by this point. I mean it has improved in the rankings significantly, it sells very well and it has already lasted a pretty long time. At the very least, there will always be something else to cancel before Medaka Box is ever considered. Plus in another few months (I would say around summer of 2011) an anime will probably be announced and then it's golden. The only reason I think that Jump has allowed MB to survive this long is because they think the anime will be a cash cow. Sorry for the rant.
No it doesn't. If I thought it did, I'd be far more of an arrogant bastard about it to stick it to certain crowds. Let it go on a dead last streak for months on end without an anime and it will bite the dust.

It has survived this long for exactly what you mentioned. There were always two series doing worse. Jump series debut in twos and die in twos. Sometimes threes but there haven't been 3 series to debut in Jump at the same time for almost two years now. If it were one of those bottom two consistently earlier on in its life it would have died regardless of if they think an anime would have been a cash cow.

The way they were treating Double Arts I'm sure they originally thought it would be a money maker as well. And its first volume actually did sell well for a new series.

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It's also the name factor. If any other author besides Ishin spent that much time in the bottom five for the first 30-40 chapters of it's life would have been canceled by chapter 30. Heck, many were.

At least Nishio seems to have found his rhythm and has improved.
Name has nothing to do with it. Plenty of big name mangaka have had their manga canceled before even though they have past hits on the all-time best sellers of Jump. Nobuhiro Watsuki(Rurouni Kenshin) and Hiroyuki Takei(Shaman King) off the top of my head.

The author of Hokenshitsu no Shinigami further proves my point. It was serialized the same year and spent the majority of its life in the bottom 5. He is by no means a big name either but his manga has survived too. Both series largely benefited from the same factors though Hokenshitsu didn't start selling anything noteworthy until volume 4.

What it boils down to is that they ranked poorly but not so poor that it was first on the chopping block.

Its my belief he has improved since Unzen appeared but I'm sure I'm in the minority there.
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Old 2010-09-11, 16:16   Link #2830
KLGChaos
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No it doesn't. If I thought it did, I'd be far more of an arrogant bastard about it to stick it to certain crowds. Let it go on a dead last streak for months on end without an anime and it will bite the dust.

It has survived this long for exactly what you mentioned. There were always two series doing worse. Jump series debut in twos and die in twos. Sometimes threes but there haven't been 3 series to debut in Jump at the same time for almost two years now. If it were one of those bottom two consistently earlier on in its life it would have died regardless of if they think an anime would have been a cash cow.

The way they were treating Double Arts I'm sure they originally thought it would be a money maker as well. And its first volume actually did sell well for a new series.



Name has nothing to do with it. Plenty of big name mangaka have had their manga canceled before even though they have past hits on the all-time best sellers of Jump. Nobuhiro Watsuki(Rurouni Kenshin) and Hiroyuki Takei(Shaman King) off the top of my head.

The author of Hokenshitsu no Shinigami further proves my point. It was serialized the same year and spent the majority of its life in the bottom 5. He is by no means a big name either but his manga has survived too. Both series largely benefited from the same factors though Hokenshitsu didn't start selling anything noteworthy until volume 4.

What it boils down to is that they ranked poorly but not so poor that it was first on the chopping block.

Its my belief he has improved since Unzen appeared but I'm sure I'm in the minority there.
Maybe. I'm sure both his name and luck have at least something to do with it. I mean, honestly. If an owner gets two baseball players for your team, one who's a big name and one who's new to the game, and they both perform really poorly at the start, you know the guy who's proven himself in the past will get a lot more leeway than the new guy who's still untested. It's just the way things work. I don't fault Nishio for it, as I'm a huge fan of Bakemonogatari.

I personally wasn't a huge fan of the Flask Plan arc for a couple of reasons. One, I felt it went on too long for what it was and two, Nishio's bad habit of introducing characters only to basically throw them away really reared it's ugly head here. All those Plus 13's introduced are now mostly gone, 6 of which we barely even saw. I feel Nishio does better when he focuses on developing a smaller cast of characters. Of course, that's just my preference in general and why I can't get into mangas like Baccano and Durarara, because there's too many people to follow.
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Old 2010-09-11, 17:08   Link #2831
Rejuvenation
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Maybe. I'm sure both his name and luck have at least something to do with it. I mean, honestly. If an owner gets two baseball players for your team, one who's a big name and one who's new to the game, and they both perform really poorly at the start, you know the guy who's proven himself in the past will get a lot more leeway than the new guy who's still untested. It's just the way things work. I don't fault Nishio for it, as I'm a huge fan of Bakemonogatari.

I personally wasn't a huge fan of the Flask Plan arc for a couple of reasons. One, I felt it went on too long for what it was and two, Nishio's bad habit of introducing characters only to basically throw them away really reared it's ugly head here. All those Plus 13's introduced are now mostly gone, 6 of which we barely even saw. I feel Nishio does better when he focuses on developing a smaller cast of characters. Of course, that's just my preference in general and why I can't get into mangas like Baccano and Durarara, because there's too many people to follow.
I'd believe your analogy if this were Magazine or Sunday we were dealing with. However, this is Jump we are talking about and they are the notorious "What have you done for me lately?" weekly manga anthology. They don't care about past big names that much. The fact that names like Watsuki, Takei, Sawai, and Kawashita have been casualties despite giving them a hit reinforces it for me. However, I do believe luck plays a part and I've said in the past the luck was largely the year it was serialized in. If Medaka Box debuted in 2010 it would be dead. Seeing the difference between how they treated Toriko in its first year and Double Arts when it debuted, they showed me quite clearly they don't give a shit about the name Nishio Ishin as much as people think they do.

It was like 30 something chapters. Not even a full year in real-time because there are 48 chapters in all each year if a mangaka doesn't take a personal break. That is standard length for any serious arc for a manga with action in it. What you complained about supports my viewpoint. Nishio quite clearly rushed that arc despite everything it was suppose to encompass. That resulted in characters who should have been expanded on being shafted, fights being skipped, and condensed.

The last point I definitely won't dispute though because I do see that going down to preference more. I felt that if he had as much influence as people think he has, he would actually have been able to ease up in certain areas. Of course not as void of content as Bleach, since we joked that one chapter of this manga is like 10 of that one but you get my point.
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Old 2010-09-11, 17:19   Link #2832
KLGChaos
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I'd believe your analogy if this were Magazine or Sunday we were dealing with. However, this is Jump we are talking about and they are the notorious "What have you done for me lately?" weekly manga anthology. They don't care about past big names that much. The fact that names like Watsuki, Takei, Sawai, and Kawashita have been casualties despite giving them a hit reinforces it for me. However, I do believe luck plays a part and I've said in the past the luck was largely the year it was serialized in. If Medaka Box debuted in 2010 it would be dead. Seeing the difference between how they treated Toriko in its first year and Double Arts when it debuted, they showed me quite clearly they don't give a shit about the name Nishio Ishin as much as people think they do.

It was like 30 something chapters. Not even a full year in real-time because there are 48 chapters in all each year if a mangaka doesn't take a personal break. That is standard length for any serious arc for a manga with action in it. What you complained about supports my viewpoint. Nishio quite clearly rushed that arc despite everything it was suppose to encompass. That resulted in characters who should have been expanded on being shafted, fights being skipped, and condensed.

The last point I definitely won't dispute though because I do see that going down to preference more. I felt that if he had as much influence as people think he has, he would actually have been able to ease up in certain areas. Of course not as void of content as Bleach, since we joked that one chapter of this manga is like 10 of that one but you get my point.
True, Jump is a lot harsher than the other magazines, I'll give you that. We'll never actually know the whole story, though.

I think Nishio rushed the action parts of the arc because he just doesn't handle action well. He's shown in past works that it's not really his thing (one shots and such). His biggest strength is his character development, interaction and his dialogue. I wouldn't really call any of the fights actual fights... more like set pieces to show off a particular power for an abnormal and then move onto the next. There was actually more talking than actual action during the action scenes.

Personally, I hate overly long action only scenes. As I get older, I find myself preferring story over fights (though WSJ isn't targeted towards my age group, so I'm more picky than the young kids who just want to see flashy moves). I like when the characters talk and interact (I made sure I read EVERY WORD of Emukae's giant speech in chapter 60... thought it was the greatest thing so far in the manga).

Of course, I think a lot of this comes down to me just being sick to death of action mangas. I read some, like Naruto and Beelzebub, of course. But there's just too many of the in WSJ. So any longer arcs that focus too much on action and fighting become a turn off after awhile. I don't have the patience to wait a year to see a fight finally end (and yes, I HATED Dragonball).
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Old 2010-09-11, 18:13   Link #2833
Westlo
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Medaka Box survived for similar reasons that Hokenshitsu no Shinigami survived, during the time series were going to get axed either 2 manga series were doing worse and/or something was coming to an end. The difference between Medaka Box and Hokenshitsu no Shinigami though is that Medaka Box sells far better when it comes to tanks so if it ever came down to cutting one of these two I believe Hokenshitsu no Shinigami is a goner. I also think manga sales gives Medaka the advantage over Psyren so that is two series Medaka has as a cushion and thats not even counting new stuff.

*7, *68,445 *,*68,445 Sket Dance vol.15
*8, *65,220 *,*65,220 Medaka Box vol.6
*9, *47,886 *,*47,886 Psyren vol.13

Mago was a regular bottom 5 dweller and now is one of the most pushed manga titles in Jump as well as getting an anime. Sket Dance was another and has survived to 15 volumes, should also get an anime one day.

But atm new series in Jump are doing horribly, 2010 is shaping up to be one of the worse year for new series in Jump ever. It's a good time to be an estalished manga series in Jump and Medaka pretty much is.

This being a Nisio work is more a factor in this getting a tv series than this staying in Jump imo. Look at Hatsukoi Limited getting an anime whereas Sket Dance hasn't got one. Dance is obviously the more successful manga series but Hatsukoi has the Kawashita factor. This being Nisio's work is good reason to predict this will get an anime down the line. Depending on how long the current arc goes for a two cour series with the conclusion of Kumagawa's arc would be nice.

Quote:
I feel Nishio does better when he focuses on developing a smaller cast of characters.
Hahaha when has he ever done this. It's like the guy on mangahelpers who was saying I liked the early chapters because this was Nisio but than it got ridiculous. Nisio's stuff is ridiculous period, Nisio making a generic rom com would be disappointing, he always includes fighting in all of his works, he always is ridiculous, he always has a large cast of characters.
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Old 2010-09-11, 18:38   Link #2834
KLGChaos
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Hahaha when has he ever done this. It's like the guy on mangahelpers who was saying I liked the early chapters because this was Nisio but than it got ridiculous. Nisio's stuff is ridiculous period, Nisio making a generic rom com would be disappointing, he always includes fighting in all of his works, he always is ridiculous, he always has a large cast of characters.
I didn't feel the cast in Bakemonogatari was too big. He had a couple of mains (Araragi and Hitagi) and a handful of support characters, each of whim got their own arc of development. Medaka Box has way more and most of them have ended up MIA. I remember the Kendo guy in the beginning who showed up in 2 or 3 chapters and was never heard from again. Then, as I mentioned, several abnormals who were given quick backstories and then discarded. Hard to care about them when their whole manga life consists of an a appearance, a one chapter flashback, getting beat and then gone for who knows how long.
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Old 2010-09-11, 18:57   Link #2835
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Westlo, I swear we have some hive mind thing going on. Everything you wrote I agree with 100%.

Although I actually will have to say I can't speak for anything else regarding Nishio's past works. Unlike the majority of people here, I haven't followed or finished any of them. I didn't jump on this series because Nishio was the name behind it like some others quite clearly have. That wasn't a shot at anyone in particular but that is the general feeling I get when people rave about this man for the past series he has done.

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True, Jump is a lot harsher than the other magazines, I'll give you that. We'll never actually know the whole story, though.

I think Nishio rushed the action parts of the arc because he just doesn't handle action well. He's shown in past works that it's not really his thing (one shots and such). His biggest strength is his character development, interaction and his dialogue. I wouldn't really call any of the fights actual fights... more like set pieces to show off a particular power for an abnormal and then move onto the next. There was actually more talking than actual action during the action scenes.

Personally, I hate overly long action only scenes. As I get older, I find myself preferring story over fights (though WSJ isn't targeted towards my age group, so I'm more picky than the young kids who just want to see flashy moves). I like when the characters talk and interact (I made sure I read EVERY WORD of Emukae's giant speech in chapter 60... thought it was the greatest thing so far in the manga).

Of course, I think a lot of this comes down to me just being sick to death of action mangas. I read some, like Naruto and Beelzebub, of course. But there's just too many of the in WSJ. So any longer arcs that focus too much on action and fighting become a turn off after awhile. I don't have the patience to wait a year to see a fight finally end (and yes, I HATED Dragonball).
See, though I can be very ruthless at times while discussing a series(Most definitely this one), everything you wrote I can respect and understand.

Dragonball's pacing actually wasn't that bad in manga form, it was the anime that made it come off as horribly sluggish. But even then, no one should be trying to hold dragonball up as some deep series. A lot of it very much was mindless action especially in Part 2.

I find Beelzebub to be hit or miss and somewhat overrated but again, I know I'm in the minority there.

Action is what Jump specializes in though. Mainly because that is what their readers tend to want although with unique execution. Anytime they try to get another sports or romance series in the mix 9 times out of 10 it has a harder time getting its foot in the door.

Back to Medaka Box, I actually said in the past one of my favorite things about this series is the characters. I just hold the belief that if a character is created in a somewhat significant role(Which the 13 Party clearly was) they should have both their abilities and backgrounds/personalities explored.
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Old 2010-09-11, 19:38   Link #2836
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No it doesn't. If I thought it did, I'd be far more of an arrogant bastard about it to stick it to certain crowds. Let it go on a dead last streak for months on end without an anime and it will bite the dust.

It has survived this long for exactly what you mentioned. There were always two series doing worse. Jump series debut in twos and die in twos. Sometimes threes but there haven't been 3 series to debut in Jump at the same time for almost two years now. If it were one of those bottom two consistently earlier on in its life it would have died regardless of if they think an anime would have been a cash cow.

Well I agree if MB did hit rock bottom and stayed there it would be over. But of course that won't happen. Well it is definitely possible (it did happen to Shaman King and Eyeshield 21) but I don't think the story will go on long enough for that to be a factor. And when I said the anime would be a cash cow I was referring to its current times, not when it first started. In the beginning it could just have easily been canceled as manga like Akaboshi and the first volume didn't even make the top 30. But starting with the second volume things started to change. The fact still remains that it is a bottom 5 dweller. But I feel that at this point Jump's thought process is "Well at this point we many as well leave it alone until an anime is comes and goes." Considering Nishio's popularity (the ONLY thing that saved this manga) the MB anime is sure to make it Jump's while. Which is good because I want a long running one.
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Old 2010-09-11, 19:56   Link #2837
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Well I agree if MB did hit rock bottom and stayed there it would be over. But of course that won't happen. Well it is definitely possible (it did happen to Shaman King and Eyeshield 21) but I don't think the story will go on long enough for that to be a factor. And when I said the anime would be a cash cow I was referring to its current times, not when it first started. In the beginning it could just have easily been canceled as manga like Akaboshi and the first volume didn't even make the top 30. But starting with the second volume things started to change. The fact still remains that it is a bottom 5 dweller. But I feel that at this point Jump's thought process is "Well at this point we many as well leave it alone until an anime is comes and goes." Considering Nishio's popularity (the ONLY thing that saved this manga) the MB anime is sure to make it Jump's while. Which is good because I want a long running one.
Only reason it didn't make top 30 with Vol 1 was because they didn't print enough copies of Vol 1 to make the top 30. Jump lowballed Medaka box not expecting it to sell much and and immediately got to work on a 2nd run after the first run of Vol 1 sold out.
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Old 2010-09-11, 19:59   Link #2838
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^That is another thing. What kind of popular author gets their first volume under printed like that? Did they not care that this was "The Nishio Ishin" that was doing the series? Look at how they treated Toriko. Hell, they rushed the first two volumes out and released them at the same time because they thought that this particular series in question was going to be huge.

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Well I agree if MB did hit rock bottom and stayed there it would be over. But of course that won't happen. Well it is definitely possible (it did happen to Shaman King and Eyeshield 21) but I don't think the story will go on long enough for that to be a factor. And when I said the anime would be a cash cow I was referring to its current times, not when it first started. In the beginning it could just have easily been canceled as manga like Akaboshi and the first volume didn't even make the top 30. But starting with the second volume things started to change. The fact still remains that it is a bottom 5 dweller. But I feel that at this point Jump's thought process is "Well at this point we many as well leave it alone until an anime is comes and goes." Considering Nishio's popularity (the ONLY thing that saved this manga) the MB anime is sure to make it Jump's while. Which is good because I want a long running one.
Your missing my point. How is his popularity the only thing that saved the manga when it has been a perennial bottom 5 dweller the majority of its life? What saved and continues to save the manga was that it managed to have at least two manga to cover it with each cancellation round that ranked worse. When it lived long enough for volume sales to materialize, that also played a factor but that wasn't until half a year after it debuted. I already referenced another manga that debuted the same year as it, is a bottom 5 dweller, and doesn't have a popular name behind it. They benefited from the same circumstances.

People keep overestimating popularity with past works when I've already listed multiple examples where that doesn't mean squat to this magazine's editors. Maybe even more so since none of his hits were actually in the magazine itself in the case of Nishio Ishin.

You brought up Shaman King and that sold way more than Medaka has (Shaman King sold 20+ million) and it further drives my point home.
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Old 2010-09-11, 22:35   Link #2839
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Your missing my point. How is his popularity the only thing that saved the manga when it has been a perennial bottom 5 dweller the majority of its life? What saved and continues to save the manga was that it managed to have at least two manga to cover it with each cancellation round that ranked worse. When it lived long enough for volume sales to materialize, that also played a factor but that wasn't until half a year after it debuted. I already referenced another manga that debuted the same year as it, is a bottom 5 dweller, and doesn't have a popular name behind it. They benefited from the same circumstances.

People keep overestimating popularity with past works when I've already listed multiple examples where that doesn't mean squat to this magazine's editors. Maybe even more so since none of his hits were actually in the magazine itself in the case of Nishio Ishin.

You brought up Shaman King and that sold way more than Medaka has (Shaman King sold 20+ million) and it further drives my point home.


Well while it's true that Medaka Box always had something that polled worse (of course that helps), Nishio's name is the reason that Medaka Box lasted this long. I will try to explain. If Akira Akatsuki came up with MB by himself, it would have polled badly, and sold poorly and it probably would have been out the door with Akaboshi (Medaka ranked better but not by much). I did not know that the first volume got a reprint. But that proves my point. MB is not a popular story with Jump readers (for the most part) but its sells very well. And most of the people that buy it are probably Nishio fans (older otaku). People who probably aren't interested in Jump for the most part. But this is good because Jump is getting revenue from a demographic that usually ignores them (probably). If it was just a regular mangaka, I sure that Medaka would not have survived. MB did not survive beacuse of Nishio's name, it was because of the amazing sells from people who normally would not buy Jump.

And concerning Shinigami that is different because it started in the bottom 5 and was on it's way out the door but one day it jumped out of the bottom 5 completely (something Medaka has not managed to do yet). Occasionally it finds it's way down there but 90-95% percent of the time it is out. It has a stable place out of the bottom 5. There are always at least 5-6 series doing worse. It's very different from Medaka Box which is still down there most of the time. However MB has been doing so much better recently that I won't be able to say this for much longer.

Lastly, of course Shaman King sold much more than MB. It's only in it's second year. But my only point was that any series can be canceled if it spends too much time in the bottom 5. Shaman King was around for a long time. Jump probably felt that it ran it's course since no anime was running and people were getting tired of it (although I thought it was a stupid idea since it was almost done anyway). But MB has a long way to go before Jump feels that way about it.
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Old 2010-09-11, 22:53   Link #2840
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Spoiler for ch 66:
About that...

Spoiler for Chapter 66:
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