AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-10-12, 11:17   Link #2901
KLGChaos
The Shermain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by winhlp32 View Post
Spoiler for 70:
Spoiler:
__________________
KLGChaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 05:17   Link #2902
Dark Mage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lummie View Post

Why is Zen willing to sacrifice this much for Medaka's life? He's throwing away his life right away in his battle with Kumagawa, only to be underappreciated in the end despite the things he does for her....
Errmmm....I havent been reading this manga but isnt it because he loves Medaka? And has loved her since he was a kid? And because he is her personal bull-dog or something?

I thought these facts were mentioned at the very beginning of the manga?
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Dark Mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 06:07   Link #2903
Last Carpet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Mage View Post
Errmmm....I havent been reading this manga but isnt it because he loves Medaka? And has loved her since he was a kid? And because he is her personal bull-dog or something?

I thought these facts were mentioned at the very beginning of the manga?
Yes, that's all true.

But, as we've seen, Medaka belongs to everyone. She loves people, I'm not even sure if she puts her own family higher than everyone else. She, like most Abnormals, doesn't have an ordinary relationship with people.

She loves everyone

Zenkichi really isn't that different for her. Sure they've been together since childhood. And she's said "You understand me the best, and I understand you the best". And "He hasn't left me alone for thirteen years". And "He's the only one who worries about me"

But that doesn't mean much when you really look at it.

What has Medaka ever done for him? From day one of the manga, she practically bullies Zenkichi into doing what she wants. He gets in these crazy situations because of her,while it's clear that she could handle on it her own. It's always been about her. She doesn't ask for what Zenkichi does for her, she just expects it, and in the end she doesn't appreciate it.

We've seen small hints that she cares about him."Jealous looks when he and Shiranui are together" And "The blubbering over Zenkichi's supposed death"
But that's just her, she's never expressed a romantic interest in him. Just a desire for him to be near her, so she won't be alone.

If he survives, I hope he realizes how futile his efforts are. To repeatedly risk his life for someone who can't love a person like they deserve. I hope he wises up. If he does, who knows where it could take him.

Hopefully, far enough from Medaka to build on some new character traits.
Last Carpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 06:26   Link #2904
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Yes, that's all true.

But, as we've seen, Medaka belongs to everyone. She loves people, I'm not even sure if she puts her own family higher than everyone else. She, like most Abnormals, doesn't have an ordinary relationship with people.

She loves everyone

Zenkichi really isn't that different for her. Sure they've been together since childhood. And she's said "You understand me the best, and I understand you the best". And "He hasn't left me alone for thirteen years". And "He's the only one who worries about me"

But that doesn't mean much when you really look at it.

What has Medaka ever done for him? From day one of the manga, she practically bullies Zenkichi into doing what she wants. He gets in these crazy situations because of her,while it's clear that she could handle on it her own. It's always been about her. She doesn't ask for what Zenkichi does for her, she just expects it, and in the end she doesn't appreciate it.

We've seen small hints that she cares about him."Jealous looks when he and Shiranui are together" And "The blubbering over Zenkichi's supposed death"
But that's just her, she's never expressed a romantic interest in him. Just a desire for him to be near her, so she won't be alone.

If he survives, I hope he realizes how futile his efforts are. To repeatedly risk his life for someone who can't love a person like they deserve. I hope he wises up. If he does, who knows where it could take him.

Hopefully, far enough from Medaka to build on some new character traits.
Uh lol ? You have no real proof for saying that Medaka consider Zenkichi as the same level as everyone else. I'm sorry but there are more hint which said the contrary than anything.

- She's jealous of Shiranui
- She was completely devasted by Zen "fake" death
- She stated that it's Zen who made her
- It's alos Zen who make her herself again in chapter 54 (or something like that) and no one else.

I think it's rather obvious than Medaka consider Zen above evryone else. Zen was always special to her that's why her brother want him to be always near her. For Medaka, Zen >>>>>>>>>>>>> Everyone else.

Btw, someone said that Zen was the robin of Medaka Box. I'm sorry but that's not true at all. Zen is way more important than Robin. Even if I agrre that Medaka is more important than Zen in the story you can't have Medaka Box without Zen when you can have Batman without Robin. Also, Zen's part in the life of Medaka is way moe important than Robin's one for Batman. Medaka can't exist without Zen since it's Zen who make her. Their bon is really special. It's not friendship, it's more powerful than that. Love ? Maybe, but I even think that their bond is stronger than love because it's Zeb who make Medaka as she is now. She is Medaka thanks to Zen !

Last edited by Kusa-San; 2010-10-13 at 07:12.
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 07:09   Link #2905
Dark Mage
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Medaka also said, Zenkichi is the type of guy she likes and then even said "I really like Hitoyoshi Zenkichi". You could see how Akune was devastated and Kikajime was blushing when she said that. Apart from that, I think Kusa-San al ready did a great job in explaining that to Medaka, Zenkichi's existance is special. Even that short guy who was nearly illed by Perses mode understood Zen's existance is crucial for Medaka.

Anyways, these doesnt even come into the disussiion since you asked why he was doing so much for her and I gave you an answer. It doesnt matter if he is loved in return or not, the fact is he likes her.
__________________
Signature stolen by a horde of carnivorous bunnies. It is an unscientifically proven fact that they are attracted to signatures which break the signature rules.
Dark Mage is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 07:32   Link #2906
Doc Astaroth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
I agree that Medaka and Zenkichi are the official couple, but I must admit I like ZenkichiXShiranui, too...

Well, I am certain some fanartist should have use now the new chapter as inspiration and draw some nice ZenXMeda-Fanar...

Spoiler for What the...:


... Ah, I know, I know... I should have known it!

EDIT:

Sorry, links to the pictures were broken. Maybe it´s better so...

Spoiler:

Last edited by Doc Astaroth; 2010-10-13 at 11:35.
Doc Astaroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 10:35   Link #2907
Iron21
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth View Post
I agree that Medaka and Zenkichi are the official couple, but I must admit I like ZenkichiXShiranui, too...

Well, I am certain some fanartist should have use now the new chapter as inspiration and draw some nice ZenXMeda-Fanar...

Spoiler for What the...:


... Ah, I know, I know... I should have known it!
I laughed really hard when I saw this pic .




p.s. Medaka Box needs to get out of the bottom five.
__________________

Iron21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 13:39   Link #2908
KLGChaos
The Shermain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iron21 View Post
I laughed really hard when I saw this pic .




p.s. Medaka Box needs to get out of the bottom five.
SWOT will probably go long before Medaka Box does. It's been dead last for the past 5 weeks now. Though I would like to see it get out myself as I believe it's been better lately. However, the little kids don't seem to agree. Seems the only thing they care about are the action parts. Story and character development don't seem to mean much. Of course, these are the same people that kept Bleach going forever without any story.
__________________
KLGChaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 15:15   Link #2909
Rejuvenation
Final Elysium
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post

Btw, someone said that Zen was the robin of Medaka Box. I'm sorry but that's not true at all. Zen is way more important than Robin. Even if I agrre that Medaka is more important than Zen in the story you can't have Medaka Box without Zen when you can have Batman without Robin. Also, Zen's part in the life of Medaka is way moe important than Robin's one for Batman. Medaka can't exist without Zen since it's Zen who make her. Their bon is really special. It's not friendship, it's more powerful than that. Love ? Maybe, but I even think that their bond is stronger than love because it's Zeb who make Medaka as she is now. She is Medaka thanks to Zen !
That was me so I'll take this.

I said Batman and Robin because its the most well-known hero and side-kick relationship that spans across the globe. 99% of people would know what I mean. It is quite clearly true from the majority of story angles that have occurred so far imo.

But I'll use a more fitting duo(minus the "love" aspect here) in Micheal Jordan and Scottie Pippen. Jordan was the undisputed #1 on the Chicago Bulls and was the face of the NBA. Plenty of individual accolades and 6 championships. However, its well known(or should be) that Jordan would not have won those championships, or at least not as many, without Scottie Pippen on his team as the #2. Many refer to him as the side-kick but he was an integral part of those championship teams and Jordan managing to be as successful on those basketball teams. Just that when shit hit the fan, everyone knew that it was going to be Jordan that would take over and dominate.

^While that one is more fitting imo, not as many people would probably know what I mean if they never followed Basketball.

I don't particularly care whether she loves Zenkichi or not and don't have much interest there so those parts are irrelevant to me. Though I believe its rather obvious she loves him more than a lot of people think.

Also I'm pretty sure I've said in past posts that Medaka is who she is because of Zen. I've never disputed that. And for all the people that hate her for how she is, that is entirely because of Zenkichi thus his fault. Though people unsurprisingly give him a free pass on that.
__________________
Rejuvenation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 17:06   Link #2910
KLGChaos
The Shermain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 35
Not quite true. Her wanting to help everyone is his fault. Her being arrogant, petty, jealous, tyrannical and hypocritical (note, she's called this throughout the story by various characters, including herself) is all her own doing.
__________________
KLGChaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 19:21   Link #2911
Doc Astaroth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
New spoiler are available:

Spoiler:


Once again, I´m not that sure about the content, but what I get is...

Spoiler:


What. The. Hell?!

Spoiler:
Doc Astaroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 19:51   Link #2912
KLGChaos
The Shermain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 35
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth View Post
New spoiler are available:

Spoiler:


Once again, I´m not that sure about the content, but what I get is...

Spoiler:


What. The. Hell?!

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
__________________
KLGChaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 20:42   Link #2913
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Yes, that's all true.

But, as we've seen, Medaka belongs to everyone. She loves people, I'm not even sure if she puts her own family higher than everyone else. She, like most Abnormals, doesn't have an ordinary relationship with people.

She loves everyone

Zenkichi really isn't that different for her. Sure they've been together since childhood. And she's said "You understand me the best, and I understand you the best". And "He hasn't left me alone for thirteen years". And "He's the only one who worries about me"

But that doesn't mean much when you really look at it.

What has Medaka ever done for him? From day one of the manga, she practically bullies Zenkichi into doing what she wants. He gets in these crazy situations because of her,while it's clear that she could handle on it her own. It's always been about her. She doesn't ask for what Zenkichi does for her, she just expects it, and in the end she doesn't appreciate it.

We've seen small hints that she cares about him."Jealous looks when he and Shiranui are together" And "The blubbering over Zenkichi's supposed death"
But that's just her, she's never expressed a romantic interest in him. Just a desire for him to be near her, so she won't be alone.

If he survives, I hope he realizes how futile his efforts are. To repeatedly risk his life for someone who can't love a person like they deserve. I hope he wises up. If he does, who knows where it could take him.

Hopefully, far enough from Medaka to build on some new character traits.
This seems like a common sentiment among Zenkichi fans, but the particular cognitive link I am not quite getting here is between 'appreciation' == 'romantic feelings and/or exclusivity'. First of all, it is agreed that Zenkichi and Medaka are operating with, nominally, a platonic relationship, correct? 'Love' or romantic feelings aside, are there any actual indications that Zenkichi wants to move beyond that? Like restraining a physical attraction for her, for example, or wishing for some demonstration of exclusivity (i.e. dates, a ring, a collar...hmm, Medaka in a collar, tasty ;p)? I haven't seen any. In fact, it seems to me, Zenkichi seems to feel like his relationship with Medaka (romantic or not) is meaningful enough in itself already.

Does Zenkichi really feel unappreciated? What would qualify as 'appreciation' by your standards? Is a blatant sign of romantic interest or exclusivity really the only thing that would satisfy you? 'Cause you know, if it's not, then I am pretty damned sure that Medaka would go just as far for Zenkichi's sake, if he ever needed her 'help' or was in trouble, that she would for anybody else--that is specifically, to entirely ridiculous extremes including self-sacrifice. (In fact, more relevantly for recent characterization, the reason why Zenkichi is always the one supporting her is because it's Zenkichi who wants to prove that he's worthy to be by Medaka's side (i.e. he doesn't need her to do everything for him), and not the other way around. Medaka's way of reciprocating his feelings and demonstrating her respect for him is how correspondingly she puts her faith in him--in believing in him to work through things on his own and even help her when she really needs it (i.e. the most recent scanlated chapter), despite the lack of confidence everybody else has in him. That, arguably, is by far the most important thing to Zenkichi over anything else. In a way, so long as Medaka has her faith in him, Zenkichi's love is being fulfilled). So you know, is that really so terrible (aside, obviously, from the recent development that Zenkichi may die because of this)? 'Cause here's the thing: yes, Medaka may love everybody, and this may mean that Zenkichi won't really get much 'service' from her so long as they are in a platonic relationship (though there's nothing saying she'd really be against moving beyond that). But y'know, couldn't it actually be that Medaka's desire to help everybody is one of the reasons Zenkichi loves her in the first place?
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 24/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-13, 21:00   Link #2914
Last Carpet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
(i.e. dates, a ring, a collar...hmm, Medaka in a collar, tasty ;p)?

Cause you know, if it's not, then I am pretty damned sure that Medaka would go just as far for Zenkichi's sake, if he ever needed her 'help' or was in trouble, that she would for anybody else--that is specifically, to entirely ridiculous extremes including self-sacrifice. (In fact, more relevantly for recent characterization, the reason why Zenkichi is always the one supporting her is because it's Zenkichi who wants to prove that he's worthy to be by Medaka's side (i.e. he doesn't need her to do everything for him), and not the other way around. Medaka's way of reciprocating his feelings and demonstrating her respect for him is how correspondingly she puts her faith in him--in believing in him to work through things on his own and even help her when she really needs it (i.e. the most recent scanlated chapter), despite the lack of confidence everybody else has in him. That, arguably, is by far the most important thing to Zenkichi over anything else. In a way, so long as Medaka has her faith in him, Zenkichi's love is being fulfilled). So you know, is that really so terrible (aside, obviously, from the recent development that Zenkichi may die because of this)? 'Cause here's the thing: yes, Medaka may love everybody, and this may mean that Zenkichi won't really get much 'service' from her so long as they are in a platonic relationship (though there's nothing saying she'd really be against moving beyond that). But y'know, couldn't it actually be that Medaka's desire to help everybody is one of the reasons Zenkichi loves her in the first place?
yes...tasty indeed.

I guess the only way to know would be to see things from Medaka's pov. To get in her head.

I wonder if Medaka is even capable of loving, really loving , someone.
Last Carpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-14, 00:36   Link #2915
Iron21
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth View Post
New spoiler are available:

Spoiler:


Once again, I´m not that sure about the content, but what I get is...

Spoiler:


What. The. Hell?!

Spoiler:
Spoiler for Spoils:
__________________

Iron21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-14, 02:06   Link #2916
Will Wright
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc Astaroth View Post
New spoiler are available:

Spoiler:


Once again, I´m not that sure about the content, but what I get is...

Spoiler:


What. The. Hell?!

Spoiler:
As an ace detective, I shall do the explaining instead:

Spoiler:
Will Wright is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-14, 15:20   Link #2917
KLGChaos
The Shermain
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: NY
Age: 35
Another question I have for 71 is...

Spoiler:
__________________
KLGChaos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-14, 21:05   Link #2918
Rejuvenation
Final Elysium
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Not quite true. Her wanting to help everyone is his fault. Her being arrogant, petty, jealous, tyrannical and hypocritical (note, she's called this throughout the story by various characters, including herself) is all her own doing.
Oh ho, but a number of those are his fault as well. He falls into the same pitfall that a number of other people in this story fall into. That pitfall being that he worships at the church of Kurokami Medaka. Kikaijima rightfully calls out Zenkichi, Akune, etc on this fact in her inner monologue.

He constantly feeds her ego and treats her like a goddess and not an equal or normal person. Whenever someone that is closer to her level comes along he is constantly surprised that they may actually pose a threat to his "Medaka-chan". As if no other mortal could hope to approach the pillar she uses to "stand above everyone and see as far as she can see" on. Zenkichi's behavior towards her only exacerbates the majority of the traits you named. Medaka states that one of the key reasons why she wants Zenkichi around because he cares about her when the majority of people wouldn't. Even so, Zenkichi has spent the last 13 years building her up.

Medaka has spent her entire life being told how godly she is because of her abnormality. Since at least the age of 2 she has been excelling and eclipsing people who spent decades in their individual fields so that easily validates her mindset. Literally no one was there in her life to actually keep her ego in check. Her parents died when she was young and the oldest sibling she has in Maguro is even worse in his worship than Zenkichi. It wasn't until the encounter with Kumagawa in middle school and then the later ones with the 13 Party that anyone seriously tried to challenge her and posed a challenge to her. So if you go the majority of your life with people constantly inflating your ego and no real counter to it there is no surprise you can turn out to be arrogant, petty at times, tyrannical, etc.

Medaka is by no means a victim here but she is indeed a product of the people around her. Is Medaka cocky as they come some times? Of course. Would it kill her to eat some humble pie every so often? Not at all. Does Zenkichi consistently stimulate her massive ego and therefore fuel the very traits you named? The evidence is spread throughout the manga and he most certainly does. Sure he isn't alone in that but Zenkichi doesn't get to be exonerated for his role in this. Especially when he has been mentioned by name for it. Just to put the icing on this cake, "Everything Medaka does is right." Those are Zenkichi's words. Talk about an ego booster if the closest person to you for 13 years has been of that opinion the entire 13 years you have known them. Which he definitely has been. So yes, the current Medaka is Zenkichi's fault.
__________________
Rejuvenation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-16, 01:22   Link #2919
Kusa-San
I'll end it before April.
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Another question I have for 71 is...

Spoiler:
Just see the raw and

Spoiler for 71:


You really should not try to hurt her Zen

Oh and :

Spoiler for 71:
Kusa-San is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-10-16, 03:11   Link #2920
Doc Astaroth
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Just see the raw and

Spoiler for 71:


You really should not try to hurt her Zen

Oh and :

Spoiler for 71:
Woah...

Spoiler:


Well, that is a lot of speculation fuel!

Also the end is a really cruel cliff hanger:
Spoiler:

Last edited by Doc Astaroth; 2010-10-16 at 03:35.
Doc Astaroth is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 21:20.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.