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Old 2011-03-20, 15:00   Link #3321
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
I just thought he was dense, like your normal shounen guys are. :P
Meh is own mother stated otherwise.
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Old 2011-03-20, 16:24   Link #3322
silver001
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with the council meeting almost over, will zen have to like die or something to give back the eyes he borrowed? I hope he does. i wanna see how minus kurokami will react to his death.
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Old 2011-03-20, 16:26   Link #3323
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by silver001 View Post
with the council meeting almost over, will zen have to like die or something to give back the eyes he borrowed? I hope he does. i wanna see how minus kurokami will react to his death.
Why do want him to die?
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Old 2011-03-20, 16:31   Link #3324
KLGChaos
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He may die. Remember, Ajimu said to come back after the StuCo fight was over.
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Old 2011-03-20, 16:36   Link #3325
silver001
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
He may die. Remember, Ajimu said to come back after the StuCo fight was over.
what he said. he has to give back those eyes he borrowed or unless ajimu comes back to life which is a possibility thanks to 100 gauntlets (assuming my understanding of it is accurate).
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Old 2011-03-20, 16:44   Link #3326
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
He may die. Remember, Ajimu said to come back after the StuCo fight was over.
Yeah I know he may "die" as in visit Aijmu but that in itself is strange. How exactly is he going to "die" will he just suddenly collasp, will Medaka follow him etc. I mean we're assuming he needs to die in order to visit her which may not neccessarily be the case.
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:00   Link #3327
Rejuvenation
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Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
Zenkichi is nothing without Medaka. Hell, he's not even been the male lead for the past 20 or so chapters as Kumagawa took that role. Is that the cause for it's rankings to be in the toilet? Who knows, but I can say that this past chapter will have the Medaka/Zenkichi fanboys raging hard. And wouldn't be surprised if it actually falls below that Shinigami and Oumagadoki mangas. Even though we all know Medaka doesn't really mean anything deep with her confession...
I doubt it has anything to do with him as far as the rankings go. This manga has never been dependent on Zenkichi in terms of whether it ranks high or low like some people think. The other two have ranked above Medaka Box before but they would be the ones more likely to go before it does. Kumagawa has been several times more enjoyable and interesting than Zenkichi ever has been so I'd love if he really was the permanent male lead but that will never happen of course.

There are 4 new series that aren't currently ranked in the magazine atm so where those 3 manga truly stand is a bit deceptive until the new ones are properly placed.

They still exist? Its not really that big a deal especially considering neither Medaka or Zenkichi has a real concept of what romantic love is and more than one character has mentioned it before.
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:07   Link #3328
Soji
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Guys we're assuming she want her power back but as far as we know there may be other reasons why she told him to come back to her.
I mean if you think about sha have given a minus to Kumagawa but has taken his original minus
Same when she return his original minus back to him.
But with Zen she not taken anything from him for give him those eyes ...ok he had lost his view again kumagawa but is still strange.
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:08   Link #3329
zeando
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zenkichi after his meeting with ajimu completely forgot what happened, and so he should not remember the request to return after the council battle
but dieing again so soon after he already died not so long ago... he's becoming more unlucky?
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:19   Link #3330
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Rejuvenation View Post
I doubt it has anything to do with him as far as the rankings go. This manga has never been dependent on Zenkichi in terms of whether it ranks high or low like some people think. The other two have ranked above Medaka Box before but they would be the ones more likely to go before it does. Kumagawa has been several times more enjoyable and interesting than Zenkichi ever has been so I'd love if he really was the permanent male lead but that will never happen of course.

There are 4 new series that aren't currently ranked in the magazine atm so where those 3 manga truly stand is a bit deceptive until the new ones are properly placed.

They still exist? Its not really that big a deal especially considering neither Medaka or Zenkichi has a real concept of what romantic love is and more than one character has mentioned it before.
Current kumagawa and any sort of male lead Kumagawa generally isn't as enjoyable as Zenkichi. Kumagawa was enjoyable because he was a unorthodox villain. You remove that and he's no better than the previous lightning villain. Heck Kumagawa without all fiction is already less enjoyable than Kumagawa with all fiction. Not to mention making Kumagawa male lead would piss of a lot of Zenkichi fans and Zenkichi x Medaka supporters. Said pairing has been hinted at since the begining of the manga and has been the main pairing for pretty much all of the show. Pissing off fans is the last thing the writer wants to do when he's in the bottom 3.

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Originally Posted by zeando View Post
zenkichi after his meeting with ajimu completely forgot what happened, and so he should not remember the request to return after the council battle
but dieing again so soon after he already died not so long ago... he's becoming more unlucky?
umm he remebered just fine. Why do you think he doesn't like using his eyes. It's because he knows they aren't his.
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:29   Link #3331
zeando
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he remember something happened but it seems he doesn't actually remember who he had meet or the details of his conversation with her, or i'm missing some part? :/
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:50   Link #3332
Xacual
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I took what Zenkichi's mom said a different way. They've been together so long that they don't really see things as getting in the way of that. Zen's response to Emukae about eating her miso soup meant just that and only that because he doesn't consider anyone but Medaka. Medaka's response was just her typical jealousy over anyone monopolizing Zenkichi's time other than herself. Though of course that seems different then a romantic love for sure but I don't see what either Medaka or Kumagawa said to be romantic love either.
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Old 2011-03-20, 17:51   Link #3333
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by zeando View Post
he remember something happened but it seems he doesn't actually remember who he had meet or the details of his conversation with her, or i'm missing some part? :/
No I think your right, it just seemed a seemed like he must have had some awareness of the whole experience considering how he talks about parasite seeing but maybe he just pieced it together by what Kumagawa said when he woke up and what he said about the ability.

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Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
I took what Zenkichi's mom said a different way. They've been together so long that they don't really see things as getting in the way of that. Zen's response to Emukae about eating her miso soup meant just that and only that because he doesn't consider anyone but Medaka. Medaka's response was just her typical jealousy over anyone monopolizing Zenkichi's time other than herself. Though of course that seems different then a romantic love for sure but I don't see what either Medaka or Kumagawa said to be romantic love either.
Well actually Kumagawa also said that Zenkichi knows nothing about love because he hasn't experienced it. Which would be weird since he should really completely know Zenkichi's situation from middle school.

Anyway Kumagawa's was probably romatic love since it was essentially the whole love turning to hate and hate turning to love. You could probably say the same for Medaka although it could also be intrepretated as loving humanity.

Either way Zenkichi made the most lasting impression on Medaka and is probably the only person you could say was somewhat close to being truly in love, since he was the reason she is the way she is. You could probably call Kumagawa Medaka's first "love" whereas Zenkichi is Medaka's life long "love". Hence Why Kumagawa is pissed at Zenkichi since he essentially stole her away from him. She was given a choice between their ideals and versions of how she should think and she chose Zenkichi.

Thinking about I wonder what would happen to Medaka if Zenkichi suddenly stopped believing that her existence in life was to help others. I mean that belief is the sole reason why she is why she is and without it she starts to crumble and doubt herself which is what happened with Medaka II as she was only brought back because of that belief. Without it, does seem to have that much self assurance as she wouldn't have stopped being Medaka II by herself. Wow... I just realised Medaka is so dependent on Zenkichi it's not even funny.

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2011-03-20 at 18:16.
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Old 2011-03-20, 18:40   Link #3334
Rejuvenation
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Current kumagawa and any sort of male lead Kumagawa generally isn't as enjoyable as Zenkichi. Kumagawa was enjoyable because he was a unorthodox villain. You remove that and he's no better than the previous lightning villain. Heck Kumagawa without all fiction is already less enjoyable than Kumagawa with all fiction. Not to mention making Kumagawa male lead would piss of a lot of Zenkichi fans and Zenkichi x Medaka supporters. Said pairing has been hinted at since the begining of the manga and has been the main pairing for pretty much all of the show. Pissing off fans is the last thing the writer wants to do when he's in the bottom 3.
You will have to excuse me since I find Zenkichi himself to be a boring character in relation to a lot of the other ones in this series. I prefer several of the male characters in this manga over him. I'm aware I'm in the minority on that.

Kumagawa and anyone else will never be the primary male over Zenkichi, I was joking about him being permanent. Also Kumagawa without All-Fiction is still very different from Miyakonojou Oudo so to say that they aren't any better than each other is a disservice to both characters. Their personalities and motives are what define them, not that they both happened to be at odds with Medaka.

The "pairings" take a backseat to the majority of the other things going on in this series. Too much attention gets paid to something that is often used for humor or gets a serious mention a handful of times in the manga. Fans were already "pissed off" more than once with this series so its not like anything has changed in that regards. This isn't primarily a romance manga and no pairing is going to be the primary thing that buries it.

I've mentioned this before but I could care less who ends up with who pairing-wise. I just get a kick out of seeing the fandom reaction whenever something screws with their golden boy.
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Old 2011-03-21, 00:50   Link #3335
Asuras
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Originally Posted by Rejuvenation View Post
You will have to excuse me since I find Zenkichi himself to be a boring character in relation to a lot of the other ones in this series. I prefer several of the male characters in this manga over him. I'm aware I'm in the minority on that.

Kumagawa and anyone else will never be the primary male over Zenkichi, I was joking about him being permanent. Also Kumagawa without All-Fiction is still very different from Miyakonojou Oudo so to say that they aren't any better than each other is a disservice to both characters. Their personalities and motives are what define them, not that they both happened to be at odds with Medaka.

The "pairings" take a backseat to the majority of the other things going on in this series. Too much attention gets paid to something that is often used for humor or gets a serious mention a handful of times in the manga. Fans were already "pissed off" more than once with this series so its not like anything has changed in that regards. This isn't primarily a romance manga and no pairing is going to be the primary thing that buries it.

I've mentioned this before but I could care less who ends up with who pairing-wise. I just get a kick out of seeing the fandom reaction whenever something screws with their golden boy.
I agree with this. Despite his villainous tag, he still possesses a much more flagrant personality than Kenichi. Frankly, Kenichi doesn't even have a personality to me. I mean really; how do you describe him? Brave? What a defining feature.
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Old 2011-03-21, 01:35   Link #3336
Westlo
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Zen is a boring character and was nowhere near medaka in the character poll.... Lol @ the thought of his fanboys being mad getting the manga in trouble... I really doubt nisio cares about the rankings when it's selling well and is going to more than likely be the next jump anime.

If they wrap this arc up soon I bet an anime will be announced shortly after...

Last edited by Westlo; 2011-03-21 at 08:09.
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Old 2011-03-21, 06:54   Link #3337
Last Carpet
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I'm still all for Zenkichi leaving Medaka's side and finding his own path, hopefully an evil path, so he can develop as a character. But I came across something interesting while re-reading the last few chapters.

I'm not sure if I have this right, but here goes. When Misogi lost "Book Maker" after killing Ajimu he gained "Hundred Gauntlets". Which, after three years of development, changed into "All-Fiction".

So it looks like as the nature of a Minus changes, their power changes too.

Imagine Zenkichi, with his "Parasite Seeing". He's a Normal, so I'd say he's probably closer to the mindset of a Minus rather than Plus Abnormal. As most Normal people tend to fail more often than they succeed. Especially in Zenkichi's case, trying his best to protect the one person in the world who is closest to absolute perfection. Constantly being told he's not good enough to be by her side. Being called weak, feeling useless.

He'd probably come closer to understanding a Minus because he's been there at some point. Just to to the full extent that a Minus has.

If a power can change depending on the mentality of the person who possess it, Imagine what could happen to Zenkichi. He could develop the Abnormality Ajimu gave him into a Minus.

Just a thought.
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Old 2011-03-21, 07:39   Link #3338
Soji
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Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
I'm still all for Zenkichi leaving Medaka's side and finding his own path, hopefully an evil path, so he can develop as a character. But I came across something interesting while re-reading the last few chapters.

I'm not sure if I have this right, but here goes. When Misogi lost "Book Maker" after killing Ajimu he gained "Hundred Gauntlets". Which, after three years of development, changed into "All-Fiction".

So it looks like as the nature of a Minus changes, their power changes too.

Imagine Zenkichi, with his "Parasite Seeing". He's a Normal, so I'd say he's probably closer to the mindset of a Minus rather than Plus Abnormal. As most Normal people tend to fail more often than they succeed. Especially in Zenkichi's case, trying his best to protect the one person in the world who is closest to absolute perfection. Constantly being told he's not good enough to be by her side. Being called weak, feeling useless.

He'd probably come closer to understanding a Minus because he's been there at some point. Just to to the full extent that a Minus has.

If a power can change depending on the mentality of the person who possess it, Imagine what could happen to Zenkichi. He could develop the Abnormality Ajimu gave him into a Minus.

Just a thought.
Well I remember KLGChaos said that Zen seems to be a depower version of Ajimu and, I must say I agree with him here.
Now if what you suggested came true, and I must admit it seems very possible given the current events.
I should not wonder if Zen becomes like Ajimu just that he going to tends more in the minus side.
Of course,I not mean that he would have all the abnormalities that Ajimu have, but that the Abnormality that Ajimu gave to him change in order to have both plus and minus, while one eye continues to do its normal function that "Parasite Seeing" have(plus the side)and the other one (the minus side) will have the power to make real the fears of the opponent or to hit the weak point of the opponent.
In any case one thing Im fairly sure and is (and Im going to believe this as long the manga itself do not deny this)ithat Zen will be the true final boss of Medaka box .
But if is beacuse he becomes evil or just because it creates a third faction that want to stop this war between plus and minus that remains to be seen.

Last edited by Soji; 2011-03-21 at 10:27.
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Old 2011-03-21, 12:25   Link #3339
zeando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Imagine Zenkichi, with his "Parasite Seeing". He's a Normal, so I'd say he's probably closer to the mindset of a Minus rather than Plus Abnormal. As most Normal people tend to fail more often than they succeed. Especially in Zenkichi's case, trying his best to protect the one person in the world who is closest to absolute perfection. Constantly being told he's not good enough to be by her side. Being called weak, feeling useless.
assuming zen will keep the parasite seeing, (while it's possible ajimu will take it back) i think that power bring the user more near to the mindset of a plus
this about the: ability --> understanding --> personality
while you seem to only consider the personality --> ability side of it

what i'm saying, i think the ability(if he keeps it) will change zen before he can change the ability
and what i think the ability lead to is a being who understand all of others and is immune to misunderstandings, which i think is more plus like
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Old 2011-03-21, 14:13   Link #3340
Rejuvenation
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I agree with this. Despite his villainous tag, he still possesses a much more flagrant personality than Kenichi. Frankly, Kenichi doesn't even have a personality to me. I mean really; how do you describe him? Brave? What a defining feature.
Considering everyone and their mom(see what I did there) is brave in this series its true that it isn't a defining feature. The thing I find interesting is that its all the other characters that he is around and interacts with that makes his presence tolerable. Medaka, Shiranui, Hitomi and possibly Ajimu are the ones that carry him. Zenkichi on his own is unremarkable. I figure thats partly because he is the "normal" one but in a manga full of eccentric and colorful characters normal really doesn't do it for me.

Especially when its clear that he is the stagnant one and is never going to change/develop into anything I want to see on panel for an extended period of time. Thats been my one knock on this arc if I had to name one. There was far more panel time for Zenkichi. I guess thats only fair though since Medaka's character was heavily developed in the last arc. She's been developed in this one too but not with loads of panel time to match it. And that brings me to my final point, despite the increased showtime he got he is still as boring as before. It took the likes of Kumagawa, Emukae, Hitomi, and Ajimu to make anything going on with him interesting. Stuff mostly just happens to him and I don't care to see Zenkichi being dragged along by the characters that are actually interesting.

I can deal with that though because the likes of the characters I named above along with Hinokage and the other Minus make this arc(and manga) entertaining.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Zen is a boring character and was nowhere near medaka in the character poll.... Lol @ the thought of his fanboys being mad getting the manga in trouble... I really doubt nisio cares about the rankings when it's selling well and is going to more than likely be the next jump anime.

If they wrap this arc up soon I bet an anime will be announced shortly after...
My stance still is and always has been that he is the sidekick that just happens to be glorified by the fan base to unrealistic levels. Since this phenomenon occurs, its the primary reason why all of this disappointment and frustration happens when he fails to meet expectations. This could be avoided if he stopped being elevated to levels he clearly isn't at and seemingly isn't meant for. I notice that rather than accepting what Zenkichi actually is and continues to be solidified as, the focus is almost always on "what if" scenarios involving him. Its like the acknowledgment that in his current form he is not only lacking but irritating to see. If he is mostly going to be just that why bother focusing so much on his character and these routes that will likely never happen? Speculation is fine and I'm all for it but don't be so surprised if he stays consistent to what his character has always been and will likely always be. /mini-rant

It would be a good spot for the announcement. Just that the series being so condensed in a lot of ways makes me hope that Nishio would have some input on the anime and expand on some things that weren't explored in the manga.
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