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Old 2011-09-28, 09:39   Link #4201
applejuice
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Wasn't he attached to the original statement/rumor that had Gainax adapting this in the first place? Besides I think Houkago no Pleiades showed that the lesser names of Gainax can do some rather nicely animated scenes. If Hiroyuki Imaishi is in charge and Aniplex are fully behind this I have faith in this being well produced. Whether that means it will sell is another story entirely...
Yeah. I'm actually saying that false might be false. It's just rumour versus rumour.

But I'm kinda confident that I'm right. Reading my note again, it was Nishigori + Imaishi + Yoshinari You + Sushio who were mentioned for leaving Gainax. Honestly, If Nishigori Atsushi didn't leave Gainax, I would say this rumour is fake. But it WAS true after all (I think it was 2011 April when if left Gainax).

Still, Imaishi can director Gainax animation I guess, without being Staff of Gainax but as a freelancer.
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Old 2011-09-28, 12:25   Link #4202
Kusa-San
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Zen is normal because Medaka's world is full of abnormal people. In a world of normal people Zen will be abnormal.
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Old 2011-09-28, 13:15   Link #4203
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AAAAAND WE HAVE VISUAL!! XD
Spoiler for color:


that "TV Anime" at the top makes me oh so happy♥


And if I may add, I find that to be the cutest damn pic I've seen to date in this manga!!♥ >ヮ<
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Old 2011-09-28, 13:30   Link #4204
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Here's something off a different forum that I think is a great explanation

This man just keeps turning shone tropes on their heads! If I'm reading the spoilers right: The hero(ine)'s most trusted confidant falls to the darkside... because ultimately the heroine subconciously only kept him around as a sort of psuedo-pet (so she could tell herself she can connect with "normal" people) and now the main villain has introduced new "pets" that do a better job of "connecting" with the heroine and making her feel "normal"!

Its fascinating! Medaka ends up driving Zenkichi to darkness... because in the end she can't truly connect with "normal" people unless they are gifted enough to keep up with her. All of the five Not Equals are actually extremely gifted and intelligent in their own ways (most of them would be considered over-achievers in real life), bordering on "Abnormals" themselves (they only lack some superhuman physical skill or super-human intelligence). Ultimately, Medaka's goal of being able to connect with anyone and everyone is a sham, because the only way she can connect with "Normals" is if they are willing to put forth the almost super-human effort needed to keep up with her! Put another way, she's too Mary Sue-ish to be capable of connecting with glorified side charcters!
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Old 2011-09-28, 13:52   Link #4205
Kusa-San
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No but why everyone are saying Zenkichi is falling in the dark side just because he's not with Medaka ? If, Medaka don't care about normal people then it's her who is in the darkside not Zen. Zen is the one who is able to connect with all the people : abnormal, minus, normal and Not Equals. On the other hand, Medaka can'"t connect with normal people which are the majority.

We can even say that because of that Medaka is a failure who can't undertand normal people.
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Old 2011-09-29, 09:59   Link #4206
Westlo
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Medaka and more importantly Kumagawa on the cover of Jump



Also here's the cover for Vol 12.

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Old 2011-09-29, 11:02   Link #4207
Kusa-San
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Westlo View Post
Medaka and more importantly Kumagawa on the cover of Jump
And even more importantly, Zen on the cover of Jump
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Old 2011-09-29, 11:30   Link #4208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
And even more importantly, Zen on the cover of Jump

And even More importantly: Medaka Box is actually on a cover!! That hasn't happened since it started more than two years ago!!


granted it's a shared cover with kuroko...but meh, beggers can't be choosers





And I am SO stoked for Volume 12!! I've already pre-ordered it and everything!! XD ♥♥
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Old 2011-09-29, 13:58   Link #4209
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Great news, let's hope the anime will be an enjoyable experience.

Spoiler:
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Old 2011-09-29, 20:01   Link #4210
Haesslich
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
No but why everyone are saying Zenkichi is falling in the dark side just because he's not with Medaka ? If, Medaka don't care about normal people then it's her who is in the darkside not Zen. Zen is the one who is able to connect with all the people : abnormal, minus, normal and Not Equals. On the other hand, Medaka can'"t connect with normal people which are the majority.

We can even say that because of that Medaka is a failure who can't undertand normal people.
I think it's because in shounen manga, people who are set against the main character's goals are usually considered evil. And Medaka cares about normal people, as she wants to make everyone happy, even while acknowledging that goal is likely to be impossible.

Yes, Kikaijima mentioned his ability to connect to people in Chapter 37 or 38 - that's how he befriended everyone, Kumagawa included... although at the same time, it doesn't mean he's perfect. Like Meguro mentions a few chapters before (33/34?), Zen's beat down the most. He gets discouraged, thinks everything's crazy... but keeps getting up even when he's beaten, to continue on when there's absolutely no hope of winning (like during the Judo club arc).

And Medaka told him to quit doing this, to break from the single thing which makes him most himself, more than his ability to befriend others. Of course he's going to snap at Medaka. I just think Medaka wasn't quite aware of how badly this would go for Zen when she decided to let the rest of the existing Council join the treasure hunt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Here's something off a different forum that I think is a great explanation

This man just keeps turning shone tropes on their heads! If I'm reading the spoilers right: The hero(ine)'s most trusted confidant falls to the darkside... because ultimately the heroine subconciously only kept him around as a sort of psuedo-pet (so she could tell herself she can connect with "normal" people) and now the main villain has introduced new "pets" that do a better job of "connecting" with the heroine and making her feel "normal"!

Its fascinating! Medaka ends up driving Zenkichi to darkness... because in the end she can't truly connect with "normal" people unless they are gifted enough to keep up with her. All of the five Not Equals are actually extremely gifted and intelligent in their own ways (most of them would be considered over-achievers in real life), bordering on "Abnormals" themselves (they only lack some superhuman physical skill or super-human intelligence). Ultimately, Medaka's goal of being able to connect with anyone and everyone is a sham, because the only way she can connect with "Normals" is if they are willing to put forth the almost super-human effort needed to keep up with her! Put another way, she's too Mary Sue-ish to be capable of connecting with glorified side charcters!
That's always been there with Medaka. She's acknowledged she can have a hard time understanding others, feeling connected to others. That was there when she grew up faster than her siblings, despite being the youngest. That's part of The End which exists in her.

As for Zen going into darkness... who knows? It's certainly a standard shounen storyline. Whether we'll see NisiOisin using it here to twist it to serve his story is another question. Besides which, I don't think he'd need to be 'driven' into darkness. It all comes down to whether Zen's stubbornness as a character would override his resistance to the idea of joining Anshin, or if he might get manipulated into it anyways.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
Great news, let's hope the anime will be an enjoyable experience.

Spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-09-29, 20:33   Link #4211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
I think it's because in shounen manga, people who are set against the main character's goals are usually considered evil. And Medaka cares about normal people, as she wants to make everyone happy, even while acknowledging that goal is likely to be impossible.[/spoiler]
This isn't guaranteed. She didn't care about normals before she met Zen, and she also faltered when she was hypnotized by Zen. Medaka's principles can waver again. If anything, the disdain she had for Zen can also be seen as her looking down on a Normal.
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Old 2011-09-29, 21:06   Link #4212
Haesslich
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Might want to fix your Spoiler quote.

And note that before, she didn't have a purpose to her life at all. That's why she felt so alienated, until Zen gave her the purpose she's been striving for ever since. She still has that purpose, although she might be hurt if Zen doesn't stick by her side.

After all, she hasn't suddenly turned psycho because Zen told her off... and given she wants to help normals be all they can be (without cheating), I don't think it's a mark against her the way you seem to believe.
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Old 2011-09-29, 21:15   Link #4213
Last Carpet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Haesslich View Post
I think it's because in shounen manga, people who are set against the main character's goals are usually considered evil. And Medaka cares about normal people, as she wants to make everyone happy, even while acknowledging that goal is likely to be impossible.

Yes, Kikaijima mentioned his ability to connect to people in Chapter 37 or 38 - that's how he befriended everyone, Kumagawa included... although at the same time, it doesn't mean he's perfect. Like Meguro mentions a few chapters before (33/34?), Zen's beat down the most. He gets discouraged, thinks everything's crazy... but keeps getting up even when he's beaten, to continue on when there's absolutely no hope of winning (like during the Judo club arc).

And Medaka told him to quit doing this, to break from the single thing which makes him most himself, more than his ability to befriend others. Of course he's going to snap at Medaka. I just think Medaka wasn't quite aware of how badly this would go for Zen when she decided to let the rest of the existing Council join the treasure hunt.

Wasn't quite aware?
She's forced Zenkichi into doing several things he didn't want any part of, and never once considered how he would feel or react.

And besides, what do you think she would've done even if she had thought about how Zen would do in the Treasure hunt? She doesn't know Zen as well as she likes to think she does. I'm starting to think she drags him around just so she can tell herself that she can connect to Normal people.

I think Zen has finally gotten sick of being with someone who never considers how feels or what he may want. He's dealt with her for 15 years, but I think he's finally tired of putting up with Medaka only to be let down over and over. Some friend
she is.

If this is darkness simply for not standing by her anymore and wanting to walk on his own, to look after himself and his own interests, then Medaka's own thoughtlessness and refusal to consider what Zenkichi may want is driving him to it.

I don't know if the latest spoiler is true, but I don't think the last chapter would've ended with Ajimu watching Zen on the ground hunched over in defeat with five people who possess genuine concern for Zenkichi's well being, if he was going to go back to Medaka like nothing happened.

And if it is true, and he does decide to be the test subject for the Flask Plan...well good for him. Whatever the reason, because he wants to be the first perfect human, or simply to spite Medaka for being a lousy friend, Ajimu made an offer and it's his choice to make. Not for Medaka, for the Student Council, or for Hakoniwa Academy, but just for himself.
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Old 2011-09-29, 21:17   Link #4214
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I don't think Medaka ever gave a thought about Zen's opinions on things.
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Old 2011-09-29, 21:42   Link #4215
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Wasn't quite aware?
She's forced Zenkichi into doing several things he didn't want any part of, and never once considered how he would feel or react.

And besides, what do you think she would've done even if she had thought about how Zen would do in the Treasure hunt? She doesn't know Zen as well as she likes to think she does. I'm starting to think she drags him around just so she can tell herself that she can connect to Normal people.

I think Zen has finally gotten sick of being with someone who never considers how feels or what he may want. He's dealt with her for 15 years, but I think he's finally tired of putting up with Medaka only to be let down over and over. Some friend
she is.

If this is darkness simply for not standing by her anymore and wanting to walk on his own, to look after himself and his own interests, then Medaka's own thoughtlessness and refusal to consider what Zenkichi may want is driving him to it.

I don't know if the latest spoiler is true, but I don't think the last chapter would've ended with Ajimu watching Zen on the ground hunched over in defeat with five people who possess genuine concern for Zenkichi's well being, if he was going to go back to Medaka like nothing happened.

And if it is true, and he does decide to be the test subject for the Flask Plan...well good for him. Whatever the reason, because he wants to be the first perfect human, or simply to spite Medaka for being a lousy friend, Ajimu made an offer and it's his choice to make. Not for Medaka, for the Student Council, or for Hakoniwa Academy, but just for himself.
Not trolling, but this post sounds seriously butthurt. It looks to me like you're projecting a whole lot of emotions onto Zen which have no relation to his actual character. How has Medaka let Zen down through the treasure hunt exactly?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
This isn't guaranteed. She didn't care about normals before she met Zen, and she also faltered when she was hypnotized by Zen. Medaka's principles can waver again. If anything, the disdain she had for Zen can also be seen as her looking down on a Normal.
I don't think Medaka's displeasure with Zen had anything to do with him being a normal. In this treasure hunt trial, the people Zen lost to were 5 other normals. Why? Because Zenkichi was determined to win completely by himself. Meanwhile, what did the entire rest of the group do? It's not like all or even most of them have greater skills than Zen on an individual level. However, by working together, they all managed to get to the top, and establish a comraderie between them at that (this even appears to have been Medaka's original intention). Even if Zen had not wanted to depend on 'enemies' or 'juniors', it was a huge stretch to refuse to work with even Akune. What does Zenkichi's belief/insistence that he can defeat everybody through solely his own effort mean? Surely this time it was Zenkichi who can be said to have been looking down on others.
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Old 2011-09-29, 22:09   Link #4216
Last Carpet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Not trolling, but this post sounds seriously butthurt. It looks to me like you're projecting a whole lot of emotions onto Zen which have no relation to his actual character. How has Medaka let Zen down through the treasure hunt exactly?



I don't think Medaka's displeasure with Zen had anything to do with him being a normal. In this treasure hunt trial, the people Zen lost to were 5 other normals. Why? Because Zenkichi was determined to win completely by himself. Meanwhile, what did the entire rest of the group do? It's not like all or even most of them have greater skills than Zen on an individual level. However, by working together, they all managed to get to the top, and establish a comraderie between them at that (this even appears to have been Medaka's original intention). Even if Zen had not wanted to depend on 'enemies' or 'juniors', it was a huge stretch to refuse to work with even Akune. What does Zenkichi's belief/insistence that he can defeat everybody through solely his own effort mean? Surely this time it was Zenkichi who can be said to have been looking down on others.
First...butthurt....odd word.

Second, admittedly yeah, maybe I'm getting a bit overly passionate about this.

You know Zen, straight laced, doesn't cheat, tries hard to succeed on his own. He has an Abnormality that, when used, basically erases all his effort. Add that to the fact that there are five Normals, that basically represent what he used to be. He's still trying to prove he doesn't need to be better to win.

Zenkichi is changing. Before Parasite Seeing, he probably would've joined them. But now that he has a power, I think he's kind of bent on proving that he can succeed without it and without anything else, just himself.

I don't know, Maybe Zenkichi is in the wrong for snapping at Medaka and being too stubborn to join the group. But can you blame him, surrounded by people who are better than him, why wouldn't he want to do something on his own. What's wrong with wanting to succeed by yourself?

Then again, maybe Medaka is in the wrong for making Zenkichi participate and then expecting him to go against his nature. If she really knew him as well as she likes to think she does, wouldn't she realize that he wasn't smart enough to solve the cryptogram, and would be too stubborn to use his power or join a group?

Something tells me this is what Ajimu wanted from the beginning. To turn Zenkichi against Medaka.

Giving him Parasite Seeing to begin to twist his worldview

Surrounding Medaka with Normals.

Starting a Domino effect that could end their "so-called" friendship

The question is why?

If Medaka is the "Main Character", and "Can't lose no matter the situation", What would breaking her bond with Zenkichi accomplish?

What reason could Ajimu possibly have to want to split them up?
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Old 2011-09-30, 00:20   Link #4217
Rejuvenation
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The whole treasure hunt was mainly based around teamwork and cooperation. As well as finding solutions that allowed everyone to win and progress in certain situations even if they all had their own personal motivations. Stuff like that are big with Medaka's character and considering her plan to counteract Ajimu was to essentially pass on her beliefs to her successors its understandable why everything was designed the way it was.

Kikaijima saying it all felt meaningless would be correct if a core member of the student council(Zenkichi) decided none of that mattered and it was only about getting through everything through his own efforts instead of relying on others when necessary. If a core member of the group you are replacing stubbornly refused to accept let alone grasp that lesson it partially undermines the group objective. Never mind actually trying to get the new recruits to fully accept the idea after the lesson is over with.

"Well if the first person to join Medaka's student council didn't go along with it and think it was important enough why should we?" could just as easily be an impression that gets made on them. Even if not all of them thought that way the one Zenkichi is directly responsible for overseeing could just as easily do so.

As for his stubbornness over now having an ability is concerned, he needs to get over it. Circumstances change in life and sometimes the measure of who we are is what we do with what we have. Having an ability is never just an auto-win at everything button nor does it mean everything he had done up until then doesn't matter anymore. He is being prideful for immature reasons.
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Old 2011-09-30, 00:22   Link #4218
larethian
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this series has really come a long way, from almost getting canceled to getting an anime.
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Old 2011-09-30, 01:26   Link #4219
Soji
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Originally Posted by Rejuvenation View Post
The whole treasure hunt was mainly based around teamwork and cooperation. As well as finding solutions that allowed everyone to win and progress in certain situations even if they all had their own personal motivations. Stuff like that are big with Medaka's character and considering her plan to counteract Ajimu was to essentially pass on her beliefs to her successors its understandable why everything was designed the way it was.

Kikaijima saying it all felt meaningless would be correct if a core member of the student council(Zenkichi) decided none of that mattered and it was only about getting through everything through his own efforts instead of relying on others when necessary. If a core member of the group you are replacing stubbornly refused to accept let alone grasp that lesson it partially undermines the group objective. Never mind actually trying to get the new recruits to fully accept the idea after the lesson is over with.

"Well if the first person to join Medaka's student council didn't go along with it and think it was important enough why should we?" could just as easily be an impression that gets made on them. Even if not all of them thought that way the one Zenkichi is directly responsible for overseeing could just as easily do so.

As for his stubbornness over now having an ability is concerned, he needs to get over it. Circumstances change in life and sometimes the measure of who we are is what we do with what we have. Having an ability is never just an auto-win at everything button nor does it mean everything he had done up until then doesn't matter anymore. He is being prideful for immature reasons.
is not happened often that after I read your post I agree with you but... I must say this time I do.
Perhaps the arc is starting will have this goal/s ,which is make Zen to understand that he has to learn to work with people beacuse nobody can do everything alone.
And the other thing what you've said about parasite Eyes.
Speaking of parasite eyes, I admit it is an idea that is probably wrong ... but I wonder if in fact they were not always being Zen abnormality and Najimi had only take them away when he was little.
And only now she give them back to him for some reason that we dont know yet.
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Old 2011-09-30, 01:59   Link #4220
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Sorry for the duble post ..but....
The 116 spoiler it's true
Spoiler for imm spoiler ch 116:
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