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Old 2011-09-30, 02:05   Link #4221
Westlo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
The question is why?

If Medaka is the "Main Character", and "Can't lose no matter the situation", What would breaking her bond with Zenkichi accomplish?

What reason could Ajimu possibly have to want to split them up?
She's trying to make Medaka weaker while at the same time she makes Kumagawa happier, the happier the later gets the quicker her restraints disappear, and while she's biding time why not make Medaka weaker by causing a split with her oldest friend. It also helps she has an interest in Zen so it's just a case of win-win for Ajimu. I'm expecting big things once she breaks the shackles.. but her mind games before that could be just as good.
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Old 2011-09-30, 03:39   Link #4222
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Sorry for the duble post ..but....
The 116 spoiler it's true
Spoiler for imm spoiler ch 116:

I love Ajimu's hair
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Old 2011-09-30, 04:30   Link #4223
Lummie
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Sorry for the duble post ..but....
The 116 spoiler it's true
Spoiler for imm spoiler ch 116:
Spoiler for pic 1:


Spoiler for pic 2:


Spoiler for pic 3:
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Old 2011-09-30, 04:49   Link #4224
Soji
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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
Spoiler for pic 1:


Spoiler for pic 2:


Spoiler for pic 3:
Thanks for the translations.
Spoiler for spoiler:

Last edited by Soji; 2011-09-30 at 05:39.
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Old 2011-09-30, 06:23   Link #4225
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Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Spoiler for spoiler:
Spoiler:
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Old 2011-09-30, 06:52   Link #4226
Last Carpet
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Hmm....seems like a pretty big leap.

Getting Zenkichi to leave Medaka's side so he can become a "Main Character", so he can look after himself and not have to worry about anyone else.

I just don't know.

As stubborn as he is, this manga has shown that no one is above evil, not even Medaka. No one would blame Zenkichi for losing his way. But still, I don't think the whole arc would've built up to end on Zenkichi's loss if he was going to refuse the offer.

Ajimu will probably use all those times in the past where Medaka forced Zen into things to assure him that she doesn't care about him or his feelings(which she doesn't to an extent) and only keeps him around for self-assurance and takes him for granted(which is kind of true)

But how is this of any real consequence to Medaka?

I mean, it's never been explicitly stated that Medaka needs Zen to succeed, she probably doesn't. Sure he gave her a reason to live. But what is not having Zenkichi around really going to do? She doesn't actually need his protection, so will it really matter to the story or to her?

I really think that Zenkichi's reasons to stay with Medaka start to weaken and diminsh as the story progresses. I think that sooner or later he's going to figure out he's essentially unnecessary to her. Even his position in the Student Council, Kikaijima is good with numbers and money, Kouki is intelligent and has beautiful handwriting, Misogi is contrary to everything so he can argue the opposite to Medaka's points.

For what reason did Zenkichi join the Student Council?
Not because he has any special skills, not because he wants to help the students, because Medaka wanted him to. He has no real purpose on the Student Council, he never wanted it in the first place. I'm just wondering if he'll ever figure out and do what he wants to do, not what Medaka wants him to do.
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Old 2011-09-30, 07:17   Link #4227
Soji
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Originally Posted by Lummie View Post
Spoiler:
Spoiler for spoiler:

Last edited by Soji; 2011-09-30 at 08:10.
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Old 2011-09-30, 08:13   Link #4228
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Hmm....seems like a pretty big leap.

Getting Zenkichi to leave Medaka's side so he can become a "Main Character", so he can look after himself and not have to worry about anyone else.

I just don't know.

As stubborn as he is, this manga has shown that no one is above evil, not even Medaka. No one would blame Zenkichi for losing his way. But still, I don't think the whole arc would've built up to end on Zenkichi's loss if he was going to refuse the offer.

Ajimu will probably use all those times in the past where Medaka forced Zen into things to assure him that she doesn't care about him or his feelings(which she doesn't to an extent) and only keeps him around for self-assurance and takes him for granted(which is kind of true)

But how is this of any real consequence to Medaka?

I mean, it's never been explicitly stated that Medaka needs Zen to succeed, she probably doesn't. Sure he gave her a reason to live. But what is not having Zenkichi around really going to do? She doesn't actually need his protection, so will it really matter to the story or to her?

I really think that Zenkichi's reasons to stay with Medaka start to weaken and diminsh as the story progresses. I think that sooner or later he's going to figure out he's essentially unnecessary to her. Even his position in the Student Council, Kikaijima is good with numbers and money, Kouki is intelligent and has beautiful handwriting, Misogi is contrary to everything so he can argue the opposite to Medaka's points.

For what reason did Zenkichi join the Student Council?
Not because he has any special skills, not because he wants to help the students, because Medaka wanted him to. He has no real purpose on the Student Council, he never wanted it in the first place. I'm just wondering if he'll ever figure out and do what he wants to do, not what Medaka wants him to do.
Yep when you think about it, he did all of that for Medaka. It's time for him to think about himself. That's Ajimmu's plan her and I think it can be good for Zen. And these five people who is here are here for him not for Medaka. Maybe, thanks to that, we will be able to see Zen true potential.
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Old 2011-09-30, 14:53   Link #4229
Endscape
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An interesting turn of events. Depending on how this is handled, we'll be able to see something interesting here.
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Old 2011-09-30, 15:07   Link #4230
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Yep when you think about it, he did all of that for Medaka. It's time for him to think about himself. That's Ajimmu's plan her and I think it can be good for Zen. And these five people who is here are here for him not for Medaka. Maybe, thanks to that, we will be able to see Zen true potential.
Why are people acting like Ajimu is suddenly a good guy now just because she may be helping Zen?
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Old 2011-09-30, 15:09   Link #4231
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Why are people acting like Ajimu is suddenly a good guy now just because she may be helping Zen?
True, no doubt she is using him. However Maguro and Naze are there, so hopefully they'll stop any funny business.
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Old 2011-09-30, 16:26   Link #4232
Last Carpet
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Originally Posted by Shadow5YA View Post
Why are people acting like Ajimu is suddenly a good guy now just because she may be helping Zen?
We know she's evil, (or beyond good and evil as she likes to think), but she's giving Zen a chance to do something else.

Like Lummie said before, He's either been encouraged or discouraged by the people around him for his choice to protect Medaka. But he's never once considered an alternative course of action. For him it's always been "Get stronger to protect Medaka", and everyone has either said "Good for you" or "You're not good enough"

But nobody's ever said, "I wonder what else he could do", until Ajimu. He's never considered anything else he might want to do because Medaka has always come first in his mind.

The whole reason he's as strong as he is is because of Medaka. But since all of that strength is going toward protecting someone who doesn't need his protection, then it kind of looks like the desire to help Medaka is holding him back from experiencing anything else.

Ajimu is offering him a chance to break free from the chains that he's tied himself to Medaka with. And I for one hope he breaks them.
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Old 2011-09-30, 16:31   Link #4233
Used Can
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I think it'd be interesting if this actually gets pulled off instead of Zen rejecting it outright or sort of considering it throughout the rest of the arc only to decline it at the end.

He really has no role any more. This could be amazingly good for Zen in terms of characterisation and also a terrific way to move the general plot.
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Old 2011-09-30, 16:39   Link #4234
Kusa-San
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I want Zen to serioulsy thinking about it and then thanks to that, being able to stand for himself and not only for Medaka. I want him to stand against her and to be the main character he should be.
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Old 2011-09-30, 17:30   Link #4235
Shadow5YA
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Ajimu's plan: make Zen replace Medaka as the main character so that Medaka will no longer have plot armor to win.

This is nothing more than a thinly veiled attempt to put Zen against Medaka.
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Old 2011-09-30, 17:39   Link #4236
Used Can
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That much is clear, but it remains a fact no one had ever questioned Zen before about him following Medaka.

There is simply no doubt everything Ajimu is doing is on her own best interests, but that doesn't mean the things she is saying are wrong. It's basically how Soji put it:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soji View Post
Spoiler for spoiler:
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Old 2011-10-01, 06:15   Link #4237
noobita
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Originally Posted by Rejuvenation View Post
The whole treasure hunt was mainly based around teamwork and cooperation. As well as finding solutions that allowed everyone to win and progress in certain situations even if they all had their own personal motivations. Stuff like that are big with Medaka's character and considering her plan to counteract Ajimu was to essentially pass on her beliefs to her successors its understandable why everything was designed the way it was.

Kikaijima saying it all felt meaningless would be correct if a core member of the student council(Zenkichi) decided none of that mattered and it was only about getting through everything through his own efforts instead of relying on others when necessary. If a core member of the group you are replacing stubbornly refused to accept let alone grasp that lesson it partially undermines the group objective. Never mind actually trying to get the new recruits to fully accept the idea after the lesson is over with.

"Well if the first person to join Medaka's student council didn't go along with it and think it was important enough why should we?" could just as easily be an impression that gets made on them. Even if not all of them thought that way the one Zenkichi is directly responsible for overseeing could just as easily do so.

As for his stubbornness over now having an ability is concerned, he needs to get over it. Circumstances change in life and sometimes the measure of who we are is what we do with what we have. Having an ability is never just an auto-win at everything button nor does it mean everything he had done up until then doesn't matter anymore. He is being prideful for immature reasons.
Well said, and I'm agreed with you.
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Old 2011-10-01, 07:22   Link #4238
Last Carpet
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rejuvenation View Post
The whole treasure hunt was mainly based around teamwork and cooperation. As well as finding solutions that allowed everyone to win and progress in certain situations even if they all had their own personal motivations. Stuff like that are big with Medaka's character and considering her plan to counteract Ajimu was to essentially pass on her beliefs to her successors its understandable why everything was designed the way it was.

Kikaijima saying it all felt meaningless would be correct if a core member of the student council(Zenkichi) decided none of that mattered and it was only about getting through everything through his own efforts instead of relying on others when necessary. If a core member of the group you are replacing stubbornly refused to accept let alone grasp that lesson it partially undermines the group objective. Never mind actually trying to get the new recruits to fully accept the idea after the lesson is over with.

"Well if the first person to join Medaka's student council didn't go along with it and think it was important enough why should we?" could just as easily be an impression that gets made on them. Even if not all of them thought that way the one Zenkichi is directly responsible for overseeing could just as easily do so.

As for his stubbornness over now having an ability is concerned, he needs to get over it. Circumstances change in life and sometimes the measure of who we are is what we do with what we have. Having an ability is never just an auto-win at everything button nor does it mean everything he had done up until then doesn't matter anymore. He is being prideful for immature reasons.
Hmm...

Teamwork and cooperation, looking back it makes sense. But it seems a bit hypocritical on Medaka's part. When has she ever really taken teamwork over doing everything herself?

Before forcing Zenkichi to join the Student Council, she did all the jobs herself.
Zenkichi came with her, Kouki and Mogana followed them, but Medaka was going to take down the Flask Plan by herself.

Anywho...about Zenkichi. You call it stubbornness and immaturity, I call it character development

Naze theorized that what truly makes an Abnormal is not the Abnormality, but the personality behind the Abnormality. Back when he was completely normal, he was strong, determined and somewhat vitrolic. But now he's stubborn, proud, and possibly even self-hating. Having Parasite Seeing is warping his sense of self, making him believe that all his hard work and effort has become meaningless.

And Ajimu is questioning the choices he's made. Not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, but making him think about why he's been doing what he's been doing and offering him a chance to do something else.

Plenty of people, like Kouki, Maguro, and Oudo have berated Zenkichi for his choice to stay by Medaka and tried to discourage him. He's never listened and stayed of his own choice. But if he looked back on his past, really looked, he'd find that he's put himself in danger and is burdening himself for pointless reasons.

Trying to protect and help Medaka when she doesn't need it, and what has it gotten him?

Beaten
Stabbed
Blinded
Bitten by poisonous snakes.

And due to his own desire, he's cut himself off from finding a way to express his full potential elsewhere. Protecting Medaka, putting up the effort to keep up with her. He made himself stronger for the sake of protecting her from people like Misogi, but she beat him on her own later on.

If he stays by her to protect her, then he doesn't have a real reason to stay anymore.

Can you imagine what he could do with that effort if he stopped following her? He's chained himself down from the start. And if Ajimu can find a way to release him from that, who knows how much he can change.

Last edited by Last Carpet; 2011-10-01 at 07:34.
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Old 2011-10-01, 07:32   Link #4239
Westlo
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Ajimu should've broken the 4th wall and said you're not even a Top 3 Male character to Zen, that surely would've worked! Pride before the fall and all that.
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Old 2011-10-01, 14:48   Link #4240
Johnny
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Yeah, yeah I'm sure it's just eating you alive and your Zen hatred is raving out of control huh and it shows since that made no sense at all...
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