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Old 2011-12-01, 04:19   Link #6121
for3ver
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nay.. shes just playing hard 2 get :P
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Old 2011-12-01, 05:40   Link #6122
Last Carpet
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
The weird thing is that Medaka also thinks of Zenkichi this way. She described him as a metal that becomes stronger the more you hit it. Which totally justifies her earlier actions.
Justifies?

Maybe it explains it but justifies?

Doubt it

I think I said this before, but if she wanted to help Zen grow it's not because she wants him to get stronger for his own sake, it's so she can enjoy their fight by having him at full strength when they face off.

Zen needed this for a while, a way to separate from Medaka so he could reach his full potential, but she could have found a better way to do it other than mocking Zen for his weakness and nearly beating him to death.

She's doing the right thing in the wrong way for the wrong reasons. Everything Medaka's doing to, or for, Zen is probably thought in being more for her benefit than his.

Last edited by Last Carpet; 2011-12-01 at 06:03.
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Old 2011-12-01, 05:42   Link #6123
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
The weird thing is that Medaka also thinks of Zenkichi this way. She described him as a metal that becomes stronger the more you hit it. Which totally justifies her earlier actions.
Not really unless your more of an ends justidies the means sorta person. Starting a coup d'état against you in your student council is clearly a silly way to go about it.

She really wanted to fight him aswell which is most probably the reason why she went this specific way.
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Old 2011-12-01, 06:25   Link #6124
for3ver
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to be honost.. we cant really know what medaka is thinking.. we havnt been allowed to see her inner thoughts that much throughout the series.. we just base all these accusations off her actions.. and right now, it seems like everyone is going along the "shes beating the crap out of him 2 make him stronger" theory or the "shes finally finished with him, and is tossing him aside" theory.. but in the end we really cant justify what she does, nor can we judge it wrong.. since in the end its our own prejudice and thoughts right?

also, i also believe that zen is going about this the wrong way.. if u need to get yourself beaten up by the girl you love, only to beat the crap out of her, to make her love u.. then thats kinda messed up ^^. but hey, thats my opinion..

and remember! zens "normal" cool!
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:01   Link #6125
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by for3ver View Post
to be honost.. we cant really know what medaka is thinking.. we havnt been allowed to see her inner thoughts that much throughout the series.. we just base all these accusations off her actions.. and right now, it seems like everyone is going along the "shes beating the crap out of him 2 make him stronger" theory or the "shes finally finished with him, and is tossing him aside" theory.. but in the end we really cant justify what she does, nor can we judge it wrong.. since in the end its our own prejudice and thoughts right?

also, i also believe that zen is going about this the wrong way.. if u need to get yourself beaten up by the girl you love, only to beat the crap out of her, to make her love u.. then thats kinda messed up ^^. but hey, thats my opinion..

and remember! zens "normal" cool!
There is one thing we know about her is that she really likes fighting, like really really.

Anyway the reason why Zen is fighting Medaka is not to beat her up (it should be pretty obvious considering Zen's character) it's more about equality in the relationship. Medaka really likes to fight, she's fought a lot in the past and will most probably fight a lot in the future. Hence why Zen deemed it so important to be physically strong to even hang around her (and considering the number of life threatening situations he's been in while being in the student council he was right plus Medaka saved his ass in none of those situations). For a war monger whose constantly in battle and also has a specific goal she needs to achieve Zen has pretty much reached the end of the road in his usefulness to her in the practical sense which would be fine if not for the fact Medaka's goal was born from him so he also wants to help in that and the fact Medaka kept him around for a reason said reason most probably being unknown to him.

So he's caught in a paradox of wanting to be by her side but not being strong enough to be combined with the fact if whether she really even needs someone strong by her side.

Now to refute this you'd probably just say he should give up go home and be a family man, but then you come with the issue that Medaka has said to him several times most like she doesn't even really consider him special and to him is most probably just plain losing her respect for him hence why he is still the bottom in her organisation.

So he pretty much decided to acquire the power he always believed he needed and give her the opposition he in his heart also always believed she needed , so that he could grow to respect himself and also become the special existence whether it be good or bad rather than to lose it all. So that at the very least he could understand her as an equal.
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:13   Link #6126
for3ver
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i know he doesnt want to beat her up.. what i meant was, that he is going to end up in a fight with someone who doesnt give up easily... in fact, i dont think we've ever seen her give up.. anyway.. from that, you could prob guess what the outcome of a "long" battle would be.. (he'd beat the crap out of her) or (she'd beat the crap out of him again).

and yes, i understand that zen's just trying to become someone that can stand by herside. i was just voicing, that in "my" own opinion, doing what his doing now is wrong..

although not doing this would've led him to a "bad flag" and thus a "bad end" probably..

hey.. whadaya no.. im contradicting myself.. ^^
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:21   Link #6127
MD84
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My last post was sarcastic. Of course I do not believe Medaka was justified. I cannot believe I have to clarify this
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:26   Link #6128
for3ver
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
My last post was sarcastic. Of course I do not believe Medaka was justified. I cannot believe I have to clarify this
WAIT WHAT?? U WERE BEING SARCASTIC? WOAH!

MY MIND IS LIKE TOTALLY BLOWN AWAY RIGHT NOW!!!

(caps lock indicates that im yelling right?? ^^)

but yea... zen's been reduced to a punching bag.. one that somehow gets stronger the more you hit it.. o.O
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:30   Link #6129
MD84
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Originally Posted by for3ver View Post
WAIT WHAT?? U WERE BEING SARCASTIC? WOAH!

MY MIND IS LIKE TOTALLY BLOWN AWAY RIGHT NOW!!!

(caps lock indicates that im yelling right?? ^^)

but yea... zen's been reduced to a punching bag.. one that somehow gets stronger the more you hit it.. o.O
It seemed like some people actually took my other post at face value. Next time I will make sure to use caps locks and emoticons, since that is the only way to convey sarcasm, it seems.

And Zen has always been a punching bag. He gets some of the worst injuries in the series, and the only permanent one, that being his blindness. Yeah, he can see thanks to Parasite Eyes, but he will lose that soon enough.
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Old 2011-12-01, 07:31   Link #6130
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
My last post was sarcastic. Of course I do not believe Medaka was justified. I cannot believe I have to clarify this
Sarcasm with text really just doesn't work especially not in a contradicting context.
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Old 2011-12-01, 09:31   Link #6131
kenjtr
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i think the way medaka do things is wrong , cause she always moves opposite direction of common sense and thats weird cause everyone thinks its ok if she is the one doing it but zenkichi always questioned her ways . Nearly in every case they solved zenkichi notices something is weird but close his eyes to the truth cause it was always been like this since he was 2 and it become natural for him . there is also one more person sees how things goes and thats shiranui also she gets along with zenkichi so well because they are in same wave .

some people said that medaka cared abaut zenkichi before but now zenkichi discarded because of his shortcomings but thats not true too also people who says medaka only cried for zenkichi are wrong cause medaka cried for ajimu and kikajima too . if someone dies medaka become sad and cries but that doesnt mean she gives them any special place in her heart , its just like kumagawa said she likes everyone . Medaka hit zenkichi becauce ajimu made her become bored of him with sending cutty5 ( sometiomes things are just the way it is ) also medaka likes her enemies more then her friends is true too .

medakas enemies are all people who are otside her reason and when people gets outside her reason she just doesnt care if they are wrong or right , all people who invades medakas reason are enemies no matter who they are . At first chapters look how medaka likes zenkichi because he is in her reaso but zenkichi isnt always behave like medaka expected so she treats him like her enemy sometiomes .

Also lets try to remember when medaka atacked zenkichi ( zenkichi beats bully ) this action is outside of medakas reason so she attacked zenkichi , everytime zenkichi ehaves outside of medakas reason reason she beat him for 13 year . Also lets try to remember what munakata said to kumagawa and akune , there s no way they can understand zenkichis feelings cause they were always in her reason .

Why did medaka atacked zenkichi out of nowhere in the changing room ? : Zenkichi didnt said medaka that he is medakas enemy all he said was people cant be right all the time and thats wrong , but medaka gone to defence in that instance because someone in her domain quit beliving her reason and that made him enemy . yes for medeka all people who outside her reason are enemy and who inside her reason are like her cute little pupies ( she doesnt put other people in her reason as friends , they are just her follower friends and they are not equall with her ) .

Ajimus choice was correct abaut medaka because if you want to win medakas heart you cant be someone in her reason also even if you are her enemy if you cant beat her you can never get her heart , all people should remember how king made medaka aroused if zenkichi wasnt there and broked weight of words she would give herself to him there . we can also assume medaka as an female animal if you beat a femala animal you can have your way with her thats how it works in nature so zenkichis choice abaut being medakas enemy before cathing her heart was the right choice .

i think there is still a long way for zenkichi to tame medaka since she is a very big beast but i think the way he is going is right but i wonder if zenkichi will always go after medaka since he is quite popular with a lot of girls .

Also there is this issue zenkichi likes people like medaka too if everyone can remember he telled shiranui that he likes her before so even if zenkichi got in medakas heart again that doesnt mena things will go smooth for medaka since she will be on same lvl with shiranui and we can also hope a medaka vs shiranui there i think zenkichis love for medaka isnt the same love we have in a romantic relationship so we have a very long way for this two to get together .

i think ajimu or shiranui is better choice then medaka for zenkichi since with medaka they will be tw dull person couple but lets see how series will turn .
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Old 2011-12-01, 09:34   Link #6132
Not Somebody
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This post might have been a little bit too long.

So far, it seems like Medaka thinks Zens a saiyan or something. Gets stronger after every battle, more pain he's in the stronger he will be. And she's Medaka.

Theres no way it will end in a single match. If Zen loses, he will just get stronger, work harder. If Medaka loses, which seems nigh impossible at this point, then she will just do the same thing. She tried again with Kumagawa. Goku told many enemies, train more and fight me again. Well, Zen has a reason to fight, and she has her.... Battle thirst.

And Kogas regenerative abilities. And Miyakanojous energy supply. And her own superhuman strength. And she can use uber reflexes. And she can observe to defeat unknown enemies like hipster. She's also merciless and her morals seem to be pretty loose. She completed devilize training camp. She may even have beginners mistake.
She's a brilliant genius who knows things so easily and absurdly the lives people spend to learn the things she learns in a day are a joke. Ha, you took 60 years to learn basic arithmetic. She got 98% of the votes for student council president. She controls the power to control. She has made a 300+ year old being with 10 quadrillion skills avoid fighting her.

That's Medaka for you. Nobody matches up. But Zenkichi... If she fights him, and he loses and she keeps fighting and he keeps losing, he will keep getting closer and closer and closer. Of course, maybe Zen is like an asymptote, getting closer but never there. Either way, he would be interesting to fight.

And my main point, while Medaka likes fighting, and wants an interesting battle, she never puts it first. She may deviate a little, but she could have fought Zen from the get go, and fought him ever since. She's only fighting him now because he brought the fight up, she didnt pick it. She could have supported the flask plan in order to make an enemy worthy of fighting her. Maybe she only likes fighting, when the other side gives it their all. In other words, she likes competition, not crushing spines. Early on in her life, everyone shriveled away. It's not about losing to those below you, its about them giving their all against you, not giving up even if you're better. When they give their all, so can you. And giving your all is a lot more fun than holding back. She lives her life to the max, and when she sees someone else living their life to the max, raising themselves up to her level, as maguro mentioned, bringing out the best in her enemies or something, then yeah. Maybe it's like seeing a peer. Or maybe it's an attempt to complete herself, to raise her enemies to in turn have her enemies raise her. She never said she would give up on making herself complete. Just, making everyone happy takes precedence. Is she making herself happy though? She seems to be following business as usual, except for maybe recent chapters.

As usual, im impatiently waiting for the next chapter, then the one after that, so on and so forth.
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Old 2011-12-01, 09:49   Link #6133
Odd
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To be honest, I don't think that there has been even a single time where Medaka has been truly defeated at the end of a battle (and I mean a serious one, not something like Penalty shootout ). So if Zenkichi defeats her completely, her mindset could take a complete u-turn which is when we'll most likely see Ajimu strike.
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Old 2011-12-01, 10:46   Link #6134
MD84
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Originally Posted by Not Somebody View Post
This post might have been a little bit too long.

So far, it seems like Medaka thinks Zens a saiyan or something. Gets stronger after every battle, more pain he's in the stronger he will be. And she's Medaka.

Theres no way it will end in a single match. If Zen loses, he will just get stronger, work harder. If Medaka loses, which seems nigh impossible at this point, then she will just do the same thing. She tried again with Kumagawa. Goku told many enemies, train more and fight me again. Well, Zen has a reason to fight, and she has her.... Battle thirst.

And Kogas regenerative abilities. And Miyakanojous energy supply. And her own superhuman strength. And she can use uber reflexes. And she can observe to defeat unknown enemies like hipster. She's also merciless and her morals seem to be pretty loose. She completed devilize training camp. She may even have beginners mistake.
She's a brilliant genius who knows things so easily and absurdly the lives people spend to learn the things she learns in a day are a joke. Ha, you took 60 years to learn basic arithmetic. She got 98% of the votes for student council president. She controls the power to control. She has made a 300+ year old being with 10 quadrillion skills avoid fighting her.

That's Medaka for you. Nobody matches up. But Zenkichi... If she fights him, and he loses and she keeps fighting and he keeps losing, he will keep getting closer and closer and closer. Of course, maybe Zen is like an asymptote, getting closer but never there. Either way, he would be interesting to fight.

And my main point, while Medaka likes fighting, and wants an interesting battle, she never puts it first. She may deviate a little, but she could have fought Zen from the get go, and fought him ever since. She's only fighting him now because he brought the fight up, she didnt pick it. She could have supported the flask plan in order to make an enemy worthy of fighting her. Maybe she only likes fighting, when the other side gives it their all. In other words, she likes competition, not crushing spines. Early on in her life, everyone shriveled away. It's not about losing to those below you, its about them giving their all against you, not giving up even if you're better. When they give their all, so can you. And giving your all is a lot more fun than holding back. She lives her life to the max, and when she sees someone else living their life to the max, raising themselves up to her level, as maguro mentioned, bringing out the best in her enemies or something, then yeah. Maybe it's like seeing a peer. Or maybe it's an attempt to complete herself, to raise her enemies to in turn have her enemies raise her. She never said she would give up on making herself complete. Just, making everyone happy takes precedence. Is she making herself happy though? She seems to be following business as usual, except for maybe recent chapters.

As usual, im impatiently waiting for the next chapter, then the one after that, so on and so forth.
A neverending battle...someone who enjoys fighting as much as Medaka would probably relish that. Making others happy, elevating them...yeah that's the purpose she chose when she met Zenkichi as a child. But fighting, competing -- those are the things she seems to truly enjoy.
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Old 2011-12-01, 12:38   Link #6135
silver001
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
It seemed like some people actually took my other post at face value. Next time I will make sure to use caps locks and emoticons, since that is the only way to convey sarcasm, it seems.

And Zen has always been a punching bag. He gets some of the worst injuries in the series, and the only permanent one, that being his blindness. Yeah, he can see thanks to Parasite Eyes, but he will lose that soon enough.
If it makes you any feel better, I figured you were being sarcastic given your post history.
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Old 2011-12-01, 13:10   Link #6136
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Not Somebody View Post
This post might have been a little bit too long.

So far, it seems like Medaka thinks Zens a saiyan or something. Gets stronger after every battle, more pain he's in the stronger he will be. And she's Medaka.

Theres no way it will end in a single match. If Zen loses, he will just get stronger, work harder. If Medaka loses, which seems nigh impossible at this point, then she will just do the same thing. She tried again with Kumagawa. Goku told many enemies, train more and fight me again. Well, Zen has a reason to fight, and she has her.... Battle thirst.

And Kogas regenerative abilities. And Miyakanojous energy supply. And her own superhuman strength. And she can use uber reflexes. And she can observe to defeat unknown enemies like hipster. She's also merciless and her morals seem to be pretty loose. She completed devilize training camp. She may even have beginners mistake.
She's a brilliant genius who knows things so easily and absurdly the lives people spend to learn the things she learns in a day are a joke. Ha, you took 60 years to learn basic arithmetic. She got 98% of the votes for student council president. She controls the power to control. She has made a 300+ year old being with 10 quadrillion skills avoid fighting her.

That's Medaka for you. Nobody matches up. But Zenkichi... If she fights him, and he loses and she keeps fighting and he keeps losing, he will keep getting closer and closer and closer. Of course, maybe Zen is like an asymptote, getting closer but never there. Either way, he would be interesting to fight.

And my main point, while Medaka likes fighting, and wants an interesting battle, she never puts it first. She may deviate a little, but she could have fought Zen from the get go, and fought him ever since. She's only fighting him now because he brought the fight up, she didnt pick it. She could have supported the flask plan in order to make an enemy worthy of fighting her. Maybe she only likes fighting, when the other side gives it their all. In other words, she likes competition, not crushing spines. Early on in her life, everyone shriveled away. It's not about losing to those below you, its about them giving their all against you, not giving up even if you're better. When they give their all, so can you. And giving your all is a lot more fun than holding back. She lives her life to the max, and when she sees someone else living their life to the max, raising themselves up to her level, as maguro mentioned, bringing out the best in her enemies or something, then yeah. Maybe it's like seeing a peer. Or maybe it's an attempt to complete herself, to raise her enemies to in turn have her enemies raise her. She never said she would give up on making herself complete. Just, making everyone happy takes precedence. Is she making herself happy though? She seems to be following business as usual, except for maybe recent chapters.

As usual, im impatiently waiting for the next chapter, then the one after that, so on and so forth.
I think your missing something here. Medaka herself isn't all that powerful, "The End" is not the be all and end all of all abilities. The reason she never loses isn't just because she has a thirst for battle it's because she's the main character. Which is precisely what Aijimu is trying to shut down. You take that away and Aijimu would logically be able kick her ass an infinite amount of times without batting an eyelid. Whether it's actually possible to take that away is because of the author. But ultimates that's what separates her and makes her invinceable.
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Old 2011-12-01, 13:37   Link #6137
Takigashima
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If Ajimu was 10 quadrillion skills and Medaka can learn skills and perfect them.
You can immediately understand the conundrum that Ajimu faces if a fight between the two would happen.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:06   Link #6138
Vigo
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Originally Posted by Takigashima View Post
If Ajimu was 10 quadrillion skills and Medaka can learn skills and perfect them.
You can immediately understand the conundrum that Ajimu faces if a fight between the two would happen.
Ajimu couldn't care less. She has Live Zero. She can negate any skill she wants even the End.
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:11   Link #6139
Takigashima
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Has it been Proven that the skill will Negate the end?
If that's all it took to beat Medaka, the manga would have ended. Even if Ajimu is sealed, she's still able to use a portion of her abilities.
And if the End is negated, would medakas mind state return to that of a normal girl or will she still be as crazy as always?
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Old 2011-12-01, 14:27   Link #6140
Vigo
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No I don't think it has been proven at least not that I know. But Ajimu herself stated that the End is trivial matter to her as long she has Live Zero. She can't win against her because Medaka is the MC. Ajimu has no reason to lie. And why should the End be immune to Live Zero?
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