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Old 2009-09-01, 12:45   Link #641
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin View Post
Kenshin had this overpowered character right from the get-go and was still highly entertaining.
He wasn't a hypocrite and heartless bitch though.
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Old 2009-09-01, 13:16   Link #642
ShiroiRyu
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He have no boobs too.
I prefer Medaka to him.
Medaka win.
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Old 2009-09-01, 14:49   Link #643
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by ShiroiRyu View Post
He have no boobs too.
I prefer Medaka to him.
Medaka win.
If you're going to base your like of a story on whether or not the character has boobs, you're better off just reading hentai and saying screw everything else.

As a guy, I can't relate to Medaka at all because for one, she is female, and two, she has a horrible and unrealistic personality. At least with Kenshin, he had flaws and a story to him which allowed you to empathize with him. For all his strength and power in fighting, he was still presented as human. Medaka isn't. She's a big ball of powers and arrogance, with nothing else going for her. If I want just boobs, I'll turn elsewhere.

Check out Chapter 7 page 10 of Bungaku Shoujo to Shi ni Tagari no Douke (I'd post a link, but I think it may be against the TOS). The girl explains what makes a good story: how you need to be able to relate to the characters and be able to put yourself in their shoes, to become part of the story yourself. With Medaka Boc, that's just not possible because you don't care about the characters at all, except maybe with Zenkichi and look what he's become. A side character.
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Old 2009-09-01, 16:02   Link #644
Ermes Marana
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
The girl explains what makes a good story: how you need to be able to relate to the characters and be able to put yourself in their shoes, to become part of the story yourself.

There is a second way to write a story though.

Make people hate every single character. Make it impossible to relate to any of them. Pain and enjoyment are two sides of the same coin. A manga which can cause pain to its readers has a place as well.

It's sort of like you have a painful sore on your lip and you can't help but keep on touching it with your tongue. That is a kind of enjoyment.

Also, you can put yourself in the story by imagining yourself beating all the characters half to death and telling them how stupid their nonsensical philosophies are. On second thought, none of the characters are realistic enough to be worth talking to, so I'd skip that part.

Last edited by Ermes Marana; 2009-09-01 at 16:14.
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Old 2009-09-01, 16:02   Link #645
Iggy_Pop
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Kenshin still struggled to learn the two greatest skills from Hiko though. Training can be cool if done right. Medaka is too overpowered and kinda annoying in my opinion
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Old 2009-09-01, 16:06   Link #646
shaolinx
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aahhsin View Post
I love an overpowered character in the beginning. It's a nice change from the weak loser, average joe, and determination leads to victory idea. Training is boring and wastes weeks of chapters.

Kenshin had this overpowered character right from the get-go and was still highly entertaining.
Kenshin on one hand, did not become that powerful because hes just "Kenshin" but through hard work, pain, and suffering(notice the training he went through after losign his parents?). While Medaka is godly because she is... Medaka. I hope that make sense.

Another point, Kenshin was never powerful to the point of kicking everyone's ass. In fact, he wouldve lost to the smiley face guy and shi shi-o if they were at their best. Whereas, Medaka(currently) can easily beat anyone else without much effort.

Don't get me wrong, I like powerful characters(Lelouche, Light, etc etc), but the primary difference between them and Medaka is what Darknemo2000 had summed up:
Quote:
He wasn't a hypocrite and heartless bitch though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ermes Marana View Post
There is a second way to write a story though.

Make people hate every single character. Make it impossible to relate to any of them. Pain and enjoyment are two sides of the same coin. A manga which can cause pain to its readers has a place as well.

It's sort of like you have a painful sore on your lip and you can't help but keep on touching it with your tongue. That is a kind of enjoyment.

Also, you can put yourself in the story by imagining yourself beating all the characters half to death and telling them how stupid their nonsensical philosophies are.
Unfortunately, those are a rare breed of stories that has an even rare-er? chance of being any good. Not everything can be like school days u know... but, it would be interesting if Zen pulled out a boxcutter one of these days ...
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Old 2009-09-01, 17:07   Link #647
Jourdal
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Kenshin started getting his ass handed to him in the Kyoto arc (though if you analyze all of kenshins fights the blows he does land would be lethal if not for the sakabato) and there were people who could rival kenshin with sheer power (Shishio) or Genius (Soujiro, Enishi) there is no such thing in Medaka.
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Old 2009-09-01, 17:41   Link #648
aahhsin
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You guys seem to be forgetting that the Shishio arc is like 100 chapters later. As I recall, every single fight before the kyoto arc was Kenshin kicking someone's ass quickly.

Spoiler:


Those chapters were horrible.

I take it nobody here really reads superhero comics.
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Old 2009-09-01, 17:57   Link #649
Cinocard
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In superhero comics, only the hero's and villain's POWERS are unreal.

In Medaka box, the whole manga is unreal. Reading a manga about tentacle aliens with boobs with a humane behavior and society is probably "realer" .
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Old 2009-09-01, 18:02   Link #650
AKnightWhoSaysNi!
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Iron Man FTW. My fav comic because yes Tony is a super-genius, but hes not running around with god damn super powers... he BUILT his means to fight and survive and he engineered his solution. Its what humanity has done to confront problems for ages, use the damn brain we're given and the hands to make those thoughts a reality! No stupid powers...

Super power is just pointless. There's no entertainment in watching someone who can just walk up and fix a problem by looking at it sternly enough. It goes for evil and good. If the good power is ultra-unstoppable they would just go and fix everything. If the Bad is, they would just go kill everything.

I get the feeling this is a last ditch attempt to be saved from the axe, but honestly if this is the authors solution... let this series head roll.
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Old 2009-09-01, 19:39   Link #651
KLGChaos
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AKnightWhoSaysNi! View Post
Iron Man FTW. My fav comic because yes Tony is a super-genius, but hes not running around with god damn super powers... he BUILT his means to fight and survive and he engineered his solution. Its what humanity has done to confront problems for ages, use the damn brain we're given and the hands to make those thoughts a reality! No stupid powers...

Super power is just pointless. There's no entertainment in watching someone who can just walk up and fix a problem by looking at it sternly enough. It goes for evil and good. If the good power is ultra-unstoppable they would just go and fix everything. If the Bad is, they would just go kill everything.

I get the feeling this is a last ditch attempt to be saved from the axe, but honestly if this is the authors solution... let this series head roll.
That's one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of Superman. He's one dimensional (though he still seems more human that Medaka). Funnily enough, I like Smallville, though, because it makes Clark seem more human.

My favorite is the Green Lantern-- a regular human who's given phenomenal power, but he still has to deal with regular human issues all the time.

The issues in Medaka aren't even realistic and I think it kills all Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
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Old 2009-09-01, 20:03   Link #652
Jourdal
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
That's one of the reasons why I'm not a fan of Superman. He's one dimensional (though he still seems more human that Medaka). Funnily enough, I like Smallville, though, because it makes Clark seem more human.

My favorite is the Green Lantern-- a regular human who's given phenomenal power, but he still has to deal with regular human issues all the time.

The issues in Medaka aren't even realistic and I think it kills all Willing Suspension of Disbelief.
The fact that this is true makes me laugh my ass off.
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Old 2009-09-01, 23:37   Link #653
Johnny
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Let's not forget Deadpool as well. He's got power with ALOT of human issues, and ALOT of comedy is thrown into mix too...
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Old 2009-09-02, 01:38   Link #654
Dark Mage
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My favourite was Batman because he has no special powers, has a dark past and more humane than the other super-heroes
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Old 2009-09-02, 04:33   Link #655
K3cT
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Almost made you wonder eh how come Bakemonogatari is quite good while Medaka Box is just plain boring?

Chapter 16 had potential though so we shall see how it turns out in 17.
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Old 2009-09-02, 05:18   Link #656
KLGChaos
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Almost made you wonder eh how come Bakemonogatari is quite good while Medaka Box is just plain boring?

Chapter 16 had potential though so we shall see how it turns out in 17.
I think it's because the medium is different. With a novel, you can use a lot of words to be descriptive and flesh out the characters. In a manga, you rely on the characters actions and images much more than you do their words. Nishio has just done a poor job at conveying things clearly. Just look at Medaka herself. Most people can't tell if she's actually a nice person with some tragic flaws that she (and apparantly most everyone else) can't see or if she's just an arrogant hypocrite, because her actions and words haven't been consistent at all. In a novel, we may get an explanation or at least some insight into why she's like she is, but in the manga, we're instead left to make our own inferences.
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Old 2009-09-02, 07:43   Link #657
Darknemo2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
I think it's because the medium is different. With a novel, you can use a lot of words to be descriptive and flesh out the characters. In a manga, you rely on the characters actions and images much more than you do their words. Nishio has just done a poor job at conveying things clearly. Just look at Medaka herself. Most people can't tell if she's actually a nice person with some tragic flaws that she (and apparantly most everyone else) can't see or if she's just an arrogant hypocrite, because her actions and words haven't been consistent at all. In a novel, we may get an explanation or at least some insight into why she's like she is, but in the manga, we're instead left to make our own inferences.
Anime in a way is also limited but Bakemonogatari is still doing great. I think the problem lies in general concept of the characters and the story. I know that Hitagi has feelings even if she can be bad at showing them, while with Medaka I do not know if she feels anything or if she just acts like she does so that she could get another victim into her web.

Bakemonogatari story is based on those two main characters most of the time, while in Medaka there is only one main - Medaka. Everyone else, including Zen, are just her sidekicks. The fact that Hitagi does not go around kissing random people and is saving her affection to the person she cares helps too.
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Old 2009-09-02, 08:26   Link #658
ShiroiRyu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
If you're going to base your like of a story on whether or not the character has boobs, you're better off just reading hentai and saying screw everything else.
Irony, you know ?
I want the others characters to shine too...
For me a good manga is not with only ONE main character but like 4-5... with differences & others things.
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Old 2009-09-02, 08:57   Link #659
Johnny
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Originally Posted by ShiroiRyu View Post
Irony, you know ?
I want the others characters to shine too...
For me a good manga is not with only ONE main character but like 4-5... with differences & others things.
I agree with ya 100%. Doesn't matter if the manga has her name in the title, it isn't enough. I'm wondering if they might give each person a chapter per fight to drag things out. It might just peek it's head out of the ranking cellar some, with the focus off of Medaka for awhile...
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Old 2009-09-02, 17:55   Link #660
OceanBlue
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I agree with ya 100%. Doesn't matter if the manga has her name in the title, it isn't enough. I'm wondering if they might give each person a chapter per fight to drag things out. It might just peek it's head out of the ranking cellar some, with the focus off of Medaka for awhile...
I personally want to see a serious Akune fight. Actually, it'd be nice to have serious fight chapters dedicated to all of them.
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