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Old 2012-01-27, 00:58   Link #6781
DawnEmperor
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Kumagawa lost, but it went to his advantage? Something like that.
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Old 2012-01-27, 01:45   Link #6782
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Good chapter~ It was rather nostalgic to see some of Kikaijima's old personality show~♥ Looking forward to whatever comes next >ヮ<
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Old 2012-01-27, 06:09   Link #6783
zeando
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
Yeah I think that's how it was made to seem on purpose but if you pay attention the game wasn't settled yet. That said I have a feeling a lot of people didn't care about the card game.
i did, and unzen was indeed a boss at the end
and the sleepy chairman also said kumagawa it won't be so easy to infiltrate and change their views or influencing the chaimens, which seems was kumagawa's plan
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Old 2012-01-27, 06:58   Link #6784
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Spoiler for a thought about Kumagawa:
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Old 2012-01-27, 19:25   Link #6785
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Kumagawa lost the battle in order to set up the platform he will use to win the war. At least that is how I view it anyway. Given that he has never won inside of the story, it should be interesting to see if he manages to win in regards to his final objective.

It was nice to get a lot of Unzen these past few chapters. He has been one of my favorite characters ever since he was first introduced and like always he acts like a boss. I'm not at all surprised that he was the one who discovered the trick that Kumagawa pulled.
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Old 2012-02-01, 05:51   Link #6786
Yee
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Can someone explain why Kumagawa is such a popular guy?
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Old 2012-02-01, 06:20   Link #6787
Sol Falling
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The "underdog effect"? Alternatively, his chaotic nature and the way that he is able to take the piss out of a great many of Medaka Box's numerous stuck-up/haughty and pretentious characters?

Or most importantly, because he represents universally the human desire to win? Kumagawa's great character moment is when he finally opens his heart and reveals his true self at the provocation of Ajimu. In real life, none of us are really heroes. None of us are all cool, and just, and strong, and beautiful, and talented like Shounen Jump manga characters. All of us have imperfections, limitations, and vulnerabilities and are forced to admit our weaknesses to people better than us, people more capable than us, people more fortunate than us, who are able to do and have things which we are unable to. In this latest chapter, 131, Nishio talks about how at even ten years old all of us can realize that life is just about luck. Who you are, what you can do, where you are from, all of this is decided by random chance in economics and genetics before we are even born. In the end we end up looking up towards the beautiful, the perfect, the rich, the talented, the hardworking "lucky people" who have the world open up to them while the rest of us wallow in mediocrity and cynicism/despair. What Kumagawa represents, is the desire to win despite all that. To overcome our destinies, all of our weaknesses and limitations which have condemned us to be just a drop in the ocean like all the other "little people". In a manner just as powerful as Medaka-chan, Kumagawa is a representation of human will.

There are two keys to the entertainment factor of Kumagawa: his desire to win, and his ability to make the perfection of the "elite" people all come crashing down. One is destructive, one is constructive, but both are at the heart of his character and unmistakeably there. It's that simple. For a human to not have that desire to overcome the limitations of his destiny and win--actually make something of their existence--they might as well not even be alive.
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Old 2012-02-01, 13:22   Link #6788
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee View Post
Can someone explain why Kumagawa is such a popular guy?
short Answer - he is a troll character
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Old 2012-02-01, 14:28   Link #6789
Yee
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Lol, well thanks Sol from that perspective he does seem like an attractive character.
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Old 2012-02-01, 15:23   Link #6790
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yee View Post
Lol, well thanks Sol from that perspective he does seem like an attractive character.
Well sol is a rock hard medakaxkumagawa fan so its obious she likes kumagawa from my perspective kumagawais a sociopat , who is getting revenge from people on top so all loosers love him :P .

The tng i want to explain here is why kumagawa is strong while he should be very weak , answer is simple ; kumagawas beliefs are strong and he is unpredictable . For example there are girl presidents in our classes normally men dont do this cause they think its troublesome , then that girl president comlain us to do our duties and that makes us angry cause she is a girl but in the end we do what that president says .

Lets put kumagawa in our place and see what happens ; he tortures president then tortures all the students who takes hers side , the screws all school and crush them . Actually we all want to do what kumagawa does but we are weak so we cant , kumagawa does things we cant even tough he is weak as us and maybe we like him because of that .

All people who likes kumagawa equally hates zenkichi cause he is like opposite of him , he always admires president does what she say etc.. thats why people were so happy when he fight back at medaka but he is also weak like kumagawa too and unlike kumagawa zenkichi doesnt break the rules so he is obiously at disadvantage here . Even medaka encoured zenkichi to break the rules but he is so fair it makes you sick

i think zenkichi can be considered king of normals while kumagawa is king of minuses but ofcourse the one on the top is medaka queen of abnormals , i would really liked if zenkichi just wanted to be with a normal cause queen of abnormals is way out of his league and she is not even worth it . i wont say anything for kumagawa cause once you become a minus that means you already lost , i think if kumagawa can become normal he could have a chance against medaka .
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Old 2012-02-01, 16:37   Link #6791
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I'm personally a Zen fan, but I also like seeing why other people like certain characters since it gives me a different perspective on them. As far as pairing and leadership goes I'm defiantly in the minority, so explanations like these are always appreciated.
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Old 2012-02-01, 22:24   Link #6792
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He may have lost the game, but he did not lose the battle.
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Old 2012-02-02, 04:55   Link #6793
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The "underdog effect"? Alternatively, his chaotic nature and the way that he is able to take the piss out of a great many of Medaka Box's numerous stuck-up/haughty and pretentious characters?

Or most importantly, because he represents universally the human desire to win? Kumagawa's great character moment is when he finally opens his heart and reveals his true self at the provocation of Ajimu. In real life, none of us are really heroes. None of us are all cool, and just, and strong, and beautiful, and talented like Shounen Jump manga characters. All of us have imperfections, limitations, and vulnerabilities and are forced to admit our weaknesses to people better than us, people more capable than us, people more fortunate than us, who are able to do and have things which we are unable to. In this latest chapter, 131, Nishio talks about how at even ten years old all of us can realize that life is just about luck. Who you are, what you can do, where you are from, all of this is decided by random chance in economics and genetics before we are even born. In the end we end up looking up towards the beautiful, the perfect, the rich, the talented, the hardworking "lucky people" who have the world open up to them while the rest of us wallow in mediocrity and cynicism/despair. What Kumagawa represents, is the desire to win despite all that. To overcome our destinies, all of our weaknesses and limitations which have condemned us to be just a drop in the ocean like all the other "little people". In a manner just as powerful as Medaka-chan, Kumagawa is a representation of human will.

There are two keys to the entertainment factor of Kumagawa: his desire to win, and his ability to make the perfection of the "elite" people all come crashing down. One is destructive, one is constructive, but both are at the heart of his character and unmistakeably there. It's that simple. For a human to not have that desire to overcome the limitations of his destiny and win--actually make something of their existence--they might as well not even be alive.
While all that is nice fine sany dandy, it's not about always winning or even winning most of the. Kumagawa is more of an end justifies the means sort of guy and the ends means winning. Genius can and does only take you so far, while luck etc do play important parts of your eventual outcome in life, none of those things define you.

It's about what you and how you do it that defines. Take Albert Einstein for example despite being considered one of if not the greatest genius's mankind, he wasn't born particularily intelligient (average grades at school), nor did he come from a particularily well of family. He pretty much ended up like an average office worker you could find anywhere.But he had a love and a hobby for mathematics and physicals and continued to do so in his spare time. And after several years it was then that he proposed the invariance of the speed of light which later shocked the scientific community after it was eventually proven. He was simply a normal man who continued to do what he loved and it eventually paid dividends.

If you simply try and do something you enjoy and put your whole heart into it, then winning and losing doesn't really matter. You don't have to break the rules and do uneffical things to get there.

While Zen may not be the most liked character around it's the Zens of this world that actually get shit done. He's simply doing what he enjoys while not caring too much about winning and losing and he enjoys is adversity.
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Old 2012-02-02, 04:59   Link #6794
DawnEmperor
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But reality is reality...it has no alignment. It's us who constantly assigns these labels.
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Old 2012-02-02, 19:38   Link #6795
telamont
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Raw for 132 is out. A sports festival I take it? Medaka is as hax as ever, lol....

Spoiler:


So wtf is going to happen NOW? Not that I don't enjoy the crazyness, but Nisiosin is really starting to get off track. This arc IS still about Zenkichi powering up and (somehow) gaining Medaka's love right?

Last edited by telamont; 2012-02-02 at 23:15.
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Old 2012-02-02, 21:02   Link #6796
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^ Spoils go in Spoiler tags :x
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Old 2012-02-02, 22:02   Link #6797
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
While all that is nice fine sany dandy, it's not about always winning or even winning most of the. Kumagawa is more of an end justifies the means sort of guy and the ends means winning. Genius can and does only take you so far, while luck etc do play important parts of your eventual outcome in life, none of those things define you.

It's about what you and how you do it that defines. Take Albert Einstein for example despite being considered one of if not the greatest genius's mankind, he wasn't born particularily intelligient (average grades at school), nor did he come from a particularily well of family. He pretty much ended up like an average office worker you could find anywhere.But he had a love and a hobby for mathematics and physicals and continued to do so in his spare time. And after several years it was then that he proposed the invariance of the speed of light which later shocked the scientific community after it was eventually proven. He was simply a normal man who continued to do what he loved and it eventually paid dividends.

If you simply try and do something you enjoy and put your whole heart into it, then winning and losing doesn't really matter. You don't have to break the rules and do uneffical things to get there.

While Zen may not be the most liked character around it's the Zens of this world that actually get shit done. He's simply doing what he enjoys while not caring too much about winning and losing and he enjoys is adversity.
What do you mean Kumagawa is an "ends justify the means" guy. Kumagawa is a Minus: that means that the "end" for him is always failure, and his "means" are actually the most defining part of his personality in that Kumagawa used to pursue the worst (i.e. most harmful, repulsive, degrading) ways of going about it. Kumagawa's way of life has nothing to do with the "ends", but everything about the "means"--because Kumagawa's story is about all the methods and paths he struggled through to find a way to fight back against his destiny.

School performance is a crappy measure of intelligence. That's because, much of the time, institutionalized education has basically nothing at all to do with reality; look up "academic underachiever"--it's a widespread phenomenon for highly gifted/intelligent individuals to do poorly "in the books" or "by the records". Einstein's IQ is estimated to have been in the range of 160-180--that's the result of biology. The fact that Einstein was introduced from a young age to subjects which engaged the particular strengths of his intelligence, and that he was motivated to pursue them, were also certainly a result of his environment which depended greatly on fortuity.

Basically, you've missed the point. What Nishio/ch. 131's narration suggests is that not just "intelligence"/special talents, not just "riches"/an affluent environment, but even having a "hobby" or "love" of something at all, and the opportunity to pursue that, is a matter of chance and luxury. Everything in Einstein's life and biology supported him someday making his scientific breakthrough in the field of physics and the theory of relativity; and these great fortuities lie behind every success or great figure of the past as well. That certain individuals received the means and the opportunity to turn their wills into achievement and reality is totally a matter of chance. But for billions of people on earth, that is an almost crushing impossibility.

(Could you really say, to the impoverished orphans or refugees of some third world country in Africa, that "just" by finding something they enjoy and putting their whole heart into it they'll really have come to make something of their existences?)

There are two manners in which the whole world moves forward. First, the blessed, the talented--receivers of good fortune, who managed to find a place for themselves in the world--they give back (i.e. like Medaka). They help others as is their moral duty. They should be as desperate to do so as the impoverished themselves. Second, the misfortunate, the poor--the utterly condemned, like Kumagawa, or others who were born into ghettos of inevitable despair, failure, or meaninglessness--they fight, desperately, to live, rise up, and make something of the life into which they were born. By these two processes of human will, the destiny of humanity changes.

"Zenkichis of the world" (as you put it) are pampered brats. (That's how Kumagawa put it--see ch. 82.) It is a tremendous luxury to live with concern only for one's own passions. The world is a desperate place--too desperate, for most people to live just "playing by the rules" and expect good things to come to them. Actually, it's because Zenkichi realized his own limitations that he is cooperating with Ajimu right now. In truth, our entire reality is about this struggle.

Human will is precisely struggle, against the circumstances which have defined us and the limitations placed upon us by "destiny". Medaka is one of its champions, whereas Ajimu's intent is to end struggle entirely. To call herself "transcendent", a "non-human" is completely accurate. However, perhaps her perspective is still reconcilable. As a matter of fact, the original "transcendentalism", Buddhism, is supported by two pillars of enlightenment. While one is the abandonment of one's human self, the ablution of one's worldly passions, the pursuit of the ultimate truth of the universe and elevation into immortality (i.e. what Ajimu is in the process of trying to push onto others--the end of human desires); the other face of Buddhism is charity--that is, the compassion and love for others that comes from a knowledge of the unity of the universe and the interconnectedness of all existences. If you talk about the strong or the fortunate, someone with the capacity to help others, Ajimu by far surpasses Medaka. That's why, if Ajimu could come to respect human will (as opposed to disdaining it, and using it as a tool to manipulate people towards an even more unchangeable destiny)--to understand human struggle and the value which can be found within it--she could indeed become one of Medaka's greatest allies.


edit:

On ch. 132. I hear a shitload of older/less used characters are showing up in it. Sounds awesome, can't wait.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 33/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2012-02-02, 23:41   Link #6798
osorito
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Chapter 132 is ready in cxc scans. It't time to enjoy.... It's amazing, without using war god mode she's stronger then the entire school combined. The only one who manage to stand was Zen

Spoiler for Zen:


It's funny that when she was asked about her friend's the only that that pop out of her head was Kouki, Zen's technically speaking is now in the enemy zone.....

Spoiler for chap 132 last page:

Last edited by osorito; 2012-02-03 at 00:12.
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Old 2012-02-02, 23:54   Link #6799
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Kuwagama, your ex-girlfriend is paying visit to your school.
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Old 2012-02-03, 00:43   Link #6800
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Fun chapter, it was like a "where's Waldo" for all the characters
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