AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-02-04, 01:03   Link #6841
kenjtr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Haha, well if you think so, go on and apply that to Medaka then. Medaka's whole character is about convincing others she's not a genius. Her goal as a Student Council President is to remove those obstacles, those barriers and limitations, which prevent people from finding something they love and pursuing it passionately until they actually achieve something. Medaka's current abilities are also the result of unfathomable amounts of hard work borne from a desperation to reach out and help people. Her position where she stands right now is also the result of countless contributions from people who were generous enough to reach out to her.

Medaka's own perspective has always been that she's not anyone special, that it is possible for anyone else to do what she has done. She's devoted her entire being towards proving that, to helping others prove themselves. If Medaka was lucky to have received the aid of others, then there is nothing shameful about receiving aid from her. That's why, Medaka isn't some who should be seen as an enemy who has to be "beaten", or a tyrant who tramples over other people. Rather, her goal is to help everyone become happy. So to answer her, people should simply become happy themselves.

It's not that "geniuses" have an easier time accomplishing things. In the end, anyone's accomplishments which are actually worth anything come down to the efforts they have put into them themselves. That's why, rather than envying or being antagonistic towards people who've actually accomplished something meaningful, it's always better to look to them as inspiration. If you truly believe yourself equal to someone like Medaka, there is zero reason to fear or to hate her. I think, that's the challenge that Nishio is ultimately pushing for with her character, at the end of this story. Everyone hated Medaka, pretty much, near when this manga started. However, as we come to realize just how serious Medaka (and Nishio) is about the idea that we are all just as capable as her, that hatred should fade away.
Just what kind of crap are you talking abaut and why do we need to strong as medaka to be her equall , all people are equall in my eye weather they are bad good weak stong clever idiot etc.. these kinds of thins arent the real value of humans . You say medaka makes people happy but can you call that real happiness , i dont hate medaka for trying to make people happy but her ways for doing that is wrong .

For example what if world is a peaceful place now because america dominates them with force , can we think that this is real peace ? wont we afraid of america that can destroy us any minute , arent we giving up our honour for a cheap happiness . medaka beats all school with force and that also means if you dont do what i say i can erase you all , yes people fear medaka and fake a happiness facade .

People obey medaka they dont love her and she cant understand their feelings , for gods sake she cant even see how much zenkichi loves her because its so natural for medaka that people should serve ser . Medaka wants people to serve her , obey her will , be under her foot and forces them if they oppose so medak has a right to do these because he has power ?

Anyway medaka should help pituful self in the first place , i dont even know why people look up to her or hate her cause i just pity her .
__________________
kenjtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 13:18   Link #6842
Terizent
Nonsense!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Haha, well if you think so, go on and apply that to Medaka then. Medaka's whole character is about convincing others she's not a genius.
What? Medaka is most definitely, at the very least, an academic genius, except not in the originality part. She's got to have a ridiculously high IQ, judging from her ability to do extremely high level math at like, age 5 or something.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
If you truly believe yourself equal to someone like Medaka, there is zero reason to fear or to hate her. I think, that's the challenge that Nishio is ultimately pushing for with her character, at the end of this story. Everyone hated Medaka, pretty much, near when this manga started. However, as we come to realize just how serious Medaka (and Nishio) is about the idea that we are all just as capable as her, that hatred should fade away.
I thought that Nisio was emphasizing that we cannot reach up to Medaka's level. Just look at that outrageous tug of war game. Seriously, if Medaka was really human, she'd have been dragged onto the ground as soon as the entire 1000+ student body started pulling. No one can be on equal ground with her in a physical or mental arena. It'd be foolish to even entertain the idea that you could somehow climb to her level of ability. Moreover, hating or fearing someone has nothing to do with whether or not you are on that person's level. It's perfectly possible to be equals with someone, and still hate them. Like, you know, with the Arch Enemy and the Protagonist.
__________________
"Haha! But you're a good guy, right?" he chuckled.
Prologue---xiii
Terizent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 15:29   Link #6843
kenjtr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
i think what medaka needs is feeling desperation , an existence that totally nullifies her and in front of that existence she will know no matter what she do shell loose but unfortunately there snt anyone like that in medaka box . Medaka s like griifith of berserk while zenkichi is like guts , zenkichi knows he is not pure but he doesnt go to dark side too on the other hand medaka looks like she is light but actually she is darker then darkness . To me it seems like zenkichi will beat medaka and that will be trigger of medakas dark side and they will all see real monster naked , even king doesnt want medaka now that he knows her true nature . i actually prefer zenkichi fall into desperation and be the owerlord then trash medaka
__________________
kenjtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 18:09   Link #6844
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
What? Medaka is most definitely, at the very least, an academic genius, except not in the originality part. She's got to have a ridiculously high IQ, judging from her ability to do extremely high level math at like, age 5 or something.
Have you not been following the rest of the conversation? We've been talking about how IQ alone is not necessarily enough to amount to anything. There are people in real life with 180+ IQs who don't even have college degrees. If you consider the millions of people who, for all their relatively high IQs, never manage to actually do something with their intelligence, it'd be a far cry to call them geniuses.

Medaka's present success and achievements certainly have more to do with her passion, effort, and the aid of people who have supported her than anything to do with her intelligence.

Quote:
I thought that Nisio was emphasizing that we cannot reach up to Medaka's level. Just look at that outrageous tug of war game. Seriously, if Medaka was really human, she'd have been dragged onto the ground as soon as the entire 1000+ student body started pulling. No one can be on equal ground with her in a physical or mental arena. It'd be foolish to even entertain the idea that you could somehow climb to her level of ability. Moreover, hating or fearing someone has nothing to do with whether or not you are on that person's level. It's perfectly possible to be equals with someone, and still hate them. Like, you know, with the Arch Enemy and the Protagonist.
What does that make Zenkichi then, who clung onto the rope to the last straw in the tug of war game? Physically, at least Hinokage Kudou and Kamimutsuro Tsue (Exercise Committee Chairwoman and Karate Club president) have fought with Medaka on a completely equal level. The point is, if people find their strengths it is perfectly possible to challenge Medaka in those arenas. As far as hating Medaka though, you've missed the real point that if you really do consider yourself equal to Medaka there is zero good reason to hate her, unless (like Unzen or Kumagawa) you initially start out with some ideological conflict like hating all people or wanting them all to be as weak as you.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 33/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 18:39   Link #6845
kenjtr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Sol Falling why do you think medaka is a succesful person ? did she invent anything or does she have a big succes that lots of people recognise her ? You say medaka puts effort but even if another person do the same effort they wont get 1/2000 of medakas result and how is that fair ? i am not saying medaka needs to be fair but she needs to accept she is way stronger from all people and clever too , well she has a weakness medaka cant imagine or improvise . Medaka is like a super computer which can do mass calculations and with that ability she can do our moves perfecly or better , she can also control all muscles of her body or endure pain etc...

As you can see medaka is a super computer android , yes she will never be able to invent anything but she can modify everything and thats her ability . i actually dont understand why medaka pulls all students and humiliates them , there is no need to do that even if you have the power , people think there is no way for them to beat her and let go of the rope but zenkichi holds it cause real things zenkichi holding isnt just the rope . the thing zenkichi holding was all his efforts and love for medaka and if he let go of that rope it would be over he would lost medaka .

i see zenkichi as a pitiful human for trying impossible cause in the end he will be sad thats all but i also respect him because he is honnest and strong willed , its actually funny that zenkichi created his own nightmare by helping medaka in the first place and that must also be one of the reasons he tries that hard .

i really wonder is there any way to beat medaka cause even if you broke all her bones she can stil stand up which is impossible for anyone in the earth lol , medaka is probably capable of closin pain of her brain too etc.. her abilities are nearly inpossible to beat but what intrests me most abaut medaka is the thing inside her , what did king saw inside her and classified her unhuman . There is something growing inside medaka i wonder what will happen when it hatchs , i wonder is it something like pandoras box ? What calamity will that thing bring ?

Why is medaka always saying zenkichi is the man she choose , why did she choose him for what ? i think maybe medaka will give her darkeness to zenkichi cause she cant handless it or her darkness choose zenkichi so what will happen when zenkichi recives that thing ?
__________________
kenjtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 19:12   Link #6846
Last Carpet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
I hope Zenkichi gives up on Medaka and moves on to someone who'll actually reciprocate his feelings.

Seriously, Medaka's dealt with all kinds of people, getting stronger as a result. She has an army of people who want to beat her, and we all know that's never going to happen. I dunno if Zen will be any different.

She's all about saving people and making them happy, but that's not what's happnening here. She doesn't want to make Zen happy, she wants to fight him, she wants to make herself happy. Does she realize that she's going against what she says is her purpose in life? She "reforms" her enemies, and Zen has become her enemy so he can get Medaka to love him. What would reforming Zen mean? That Zen is wrong for loving her? That he should accept that she'll never love him?

I wish Zen would just drop Medaka and find someone else. Which makes me think.....

I wonder how she'd feel if Zen gave up? She's said that Zen is the person she's always wanted to fight, and we all know that there's more than just rivalry between them. What it is exactly I'm not sure, sure as hell isn't love on her part, but it isn't just rivalry. How would she take it if someone up and decided that she wasn't worth the effort or the struggle anymore? She doesn't understand people's hearts, so I wonder how someone resigning any and all feelings they had about her affect Medaka?

Last edited by Last Carpet; 2012-02-04 at 19:23.
Last Carpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 19:23   Link #6847
Terizent
Nonsense!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Have you not been following the rest of the conversation? We've been talking about how IQ alone is not necessarily enough to amount to anything. There are people in real life with 180+ IQs who don't even have college degrees. If you consider the millions of people who, for all their relatively high IQs, never manage to actually do something with their intelligence, it'd be a far cry to call them geniuses.
I'm not implying that high IQ is automatically equated with genius, but it's pretty much a damn requirement; I haven't ever heard of geniuses with an IQ of less than 80, have you? At its basest meaning, "genius" is closely related with intelligence. And Medaka does amount to something. 'Cause last time I checked, she was an invincible school council president who probably proves scientific theorems in her free time and has a 99.99% approval rating. That's a genius, if you ask me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Medaka's present success and achievements certainly have more to do with her passion, effort, and the aid of people who have supported her than anything to do with her intelligence.
Yes, but I doubt that she could have gotten up to her current level of success without the talent that she inherently possessed. Sure, I'm familiar with the ideology of "If you try hard enough, you can do ANYTHING!" But try as they might, a person suffering from severe mental retardation cannot achieve a degree in quantum physics.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
What does that make Zenkichi then, who clung onto the rope to the last straw in the tug of war game? Physically, at least Hinokage Kudou and Kamimutsuro Tsue (Exercise Committee Chairwoman and Karate Club president) have fought with Medaka on a completely equal level. The point is, if people find their strengths it is perfectly possible to challenge Medaka in those arenas. As far as hating Medaka though, you've missed the real point that if you really do consider yourself equal to Medaka there is zero good reason to hate her, unless (like Unzen or Kumagawa) you initially start out with some ideological conflict like hating all people or wanting them all to be as weak as you.
Zen's stubborn, and clinging onto a rope does not make him equal to Medaka, it just shows how hard he is willing to work towards his goals. Also, the Karate Council president, as of now, probably can't match up to Medaka anymore and it is incredibly unrealistic to assign Hinokage with the same amount of strength as well, since Hinokage's fight took place before the manga, and the Karate guy's in the beginning. Medaka's leveled up a lot higher since then.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The point is, if people find their strengths it is perfectly possible to challenge Medaka in those arenas. As far as hating Medaka though, you've missed the real point that if you really do consider yourself equal to Medaka there is zero good reason to hate her, unless (like Unzen or Kumagawa) you initially start out with some ideological conflict like hating all people or wanting them all to be as weak as you.
What do you mean, 'find your strengths'? It's not like people can just go rooting around their heads and then challenge her to an obscure skill. And she'd beat them anyways, since that's just who she is.

And why must you focus on not hating her if you're on equal footing? Plenty of characters who are not up to her par admire her and have no feelings of hate towards her. On the other hand, Ajimu, who let us say is extremely close to an equal of Medaka, seems to dislike her. And in the end, Medaka has no equal, since according to WoG, she's the main character, so really, it doesn't matter whether you're equal or not. And what do you mean "a good reason to hate her"? That's like asking what a good reason for murder is.

Oh, and also, Unzen doesn't hate everybody. Why would you slander such an awesome character so?
__________________
"Haha! But you're a good guy, right?" he chuckled.
Prologue---xiii
Terizent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 20:10   Link #6848
kenjtr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
i noticed somewhere in the past zenkichi asked shiranui if she can eat a black hole and when minakouji looked inside medaka he saw a black hole , in abnormal arc zenkichi didnt tried his chance at all and also in kumagawas case he said he thought abaut the possibilty of taking kuagawa in the team .

is it possible that zenkichi is after medakas power ? and he is playing goody two shoes all the time even medaka bought it and if it is thatll be the biggest troll of manga history .
__________________
kenjtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 20:43   Link #6849
for3ver
The Lost Child
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: neverland? where ever that is..
oh my god...

i havnt participated in this thread for a while.. but.. really..

she didnt even mention zen when she was talking to miyakonojou..

doesnt she consider him a candidate in a relationship?

what the hell.. is she dense? or does she know something?

all in all...

that was way 2 harsh.. imo

Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
i noticed somewhere in the past zenkichi asked shiranui if she can eat a black hole and when minakouji looked inside medaka he saw a black hole , in abnormal arc zenkichi didnt tried his chance at all and also in kumagawas case he said he thought abaut the possibilty of taking kuagawa in the team .

is it possible that zenkichi is after medakas power ? and he is playing goody two shoes all the time even medaka bought it and if it is thatll be the biggest troll of manga history .
tis would be teh biggest troll..

but i doubt that..
__________________
for3ver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 21:34   Link #6850
kenjtr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
i am not sure if medaka thinks zenkichi more then a bug or thinks at all , he was just a pawn to reach her objective and when she done that zenkichi was not needed anymore lol i feel very sad for zenkichi . i think the real problem is zenkichi being a normal and for that reason superb medaka cant even think him as a candidate at all , she says she doesnt look down on humans and there is no special person but she ignores zenkichi because he is not special .

Actually i can understand why medaka doesnt like zenkichi , the thing i dont understand is why zenkichi likes medaka . Medaka shows worst treatment to zenkichi and even if he was the last men in the world she wouldnt want to marry him , not matter what zenkichi does medaka just doesnt love him and that will not change .

From the beginning of the manga all i can see is medaka trying to show zenkchi that they cant be together , she even does all the things he doesnt like . Zenkichi needs to understand that medaka doesnt want her but thats also a trap cause she wants to reform zenkichi , its obious zenkichi will be happier without medaka and even medaka is pushing him for this but he just dont give up . Maybe medaka thinks being with her will make zenkichi unhappy i dont know , really cant understand that girl why did she even pushed zenkichi araund for 10 years .
__________________
kenjtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-04, 21:53   Link #6851
Guernsey
The GAP Man
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Guernsey Send a message via MSN to Guernsey Send a message via Yahoo to Guernsey
Perhaps Medaka never really had any romantic interest in the first place. Medaka loves Zenikichi like a friend and/or possible rival but never in a romantic way. That is what I think.
__________________
Guernsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 00:40   Link #6852
Rejuvenation
Final Elysium
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
Oh, and also, Unzen doesn't hate everybody. Why would you slander such an awesome character so?
Probably because Unzen himself says it in Chapter 18 page 16

"And even though I don't think I need to say it, I hate people!! Absolutely hate everything about them!!"

Also in Chapter 21 page 6

"No matter what else of mine breaks, I will not change my way of doing things. When tomorrow comes I'll continue saying what I've always been saying. I hate people!!"

Considering how by the end of the fight with Medaka he basically says he is still going to stick to his beliefs and Medaka didn't change them the assumption that he still feels the same is valid. Plus he is still considered an enemy of Medaka's anyway so he isn't an Akune-type that eventually switched to becoming her friend and supporting her.

Also Unzen is one of his favorite characters. I doubt he would be trying to slander him.
__________________
Rejuvenation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 01:17   Link #6853
Terizent
Nonsense!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Don't be ridiculous, Rejuvenation. There's no way Unzen could hate Yobuko or his sister. Therefore, he doesn't hate everybody.
__________________
"Haha! But you're a good guy, right?" he chuckled.
Prologue---xiii
Terizent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 03:48   Link #6854
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
I'm not implying that high IQ is automatically equated with genius, but it's pretty much a damn requirement; I haven't ever heard of geniuses with an IQ of less than 80, have you? At its basest meaning, "genius" is closely related with intelligence. And Medaka does amount to something. 'Cause last time I checked, she was an invincible school council president who probably proves scientific theorems in her free time and has a 99.99% approval rating. That's a genius, if you ask me.
And it is precisely those kinds of "she's just different", common-man statements that Nishio called unsightly. If Zenkichi manages to get a 100% approval rating in the upcoming elections, are you then going to start calling him a genius? There is only one thing which distinguishes Medaka from a normal human, and that is that she is passionate. There is only one other thing which differentiates her from fellow people with character, and that is that she has been comparatively lucky. Medaka is no more a genius than you or me.

Quote:
Yes, but I doubt that she could have gotten up to her current level of success without the talent that she inherently possessed. Sure, I'm familiar with the ideology of "If you try hard enough, you can do ANYTHING!" But try as they might, a person suffering from severe mental retardation cannot achieve a degree in quantum physics.
I beg to differ. Have you heard of the phenomenon of autistic savantism? Even highly handicapped or challenged individuals have developed incredible skills or abilities as a result of devoting their entire attention and efforts to something. To claim that (for example) an IQ 80 individual by default might have less to offer to the field of physics than an IQ 180 individual, couldn't be farther from the truth.

Quote:
Zen's stubborn, and clinging onto a rope does not make him equal to Medaka, it just shows how hard he is willing to work towards his goals. Also, the Karate Council president, as of now, probably can't match up to Medaka anymore and it is incredibly unrealistic to assign Hinokage with the same amount of strength as well, since Hinokage's fight took place before the manga, and the Karate guy's in the beginning. Medaka's leveled up a lot higher since then.
Medaka might have levelled up, but there is nothing to say that Hinokage or Mutsue or anyone else couldn't level up as well. And rather, you're mistaken about the extent to which Medaka's strength has truly changed. The most significant developments to Medaka's strength have been about her control; from the completely out of control War God/Perses Mode, to the self-modulating/weakening Forsaken God Mode. The peak of Medaka's power still remains more or less consistent with the level of her original beast, War God Mode.

Quote:
What do you mean, 'find your strengths'? It's not like people can just go rooting around their heads and then challenge her to an obscure skill. And she'd beat them anyways, since that's just who she is.
Find your strengths as in, find something you're good at and which you are passionate about, then if you consistently devote your passion and efforts towards it--by the end of your life, you will have contributed far more to that area than Medaka herself could do.

It's precisely this reality, btw, about which Oujo speaks approvingly when talking about Medaka's accomplishments. Everyone's passions, and everyone's differences, all striving to prove themselves is worth far more than a planetful of "perfect" Medakas. It was for that sake that Medaka stopped the Flask Plan.

Quote:
And why must you focus on not hating her if you're on equal footing? Plenty of characters who are not up to her par admire her and have no feelings of hate towards her. On the other hand, Ajimu, who let us say is extremely close to an equal of Medaka, seems to dislike her. And in the end, Medaka has no equal, since according to WoG, she's the main character, so really, it doesn't matter whether you're equal or not. And what do you mean "a good reason to hate her"? That's like asking what a good reason for murder is.
The characters who admire Medaka are, as Nishio says, "looking up" while crying "but don't look down on us!". That is just as mistaken as hating her, and not what I'm talking about. The point is that Medaka's abilities are nothing special, and what's most important about her is her passion and her beliefs. And there is nothing objectionable about Medaka's beliefs, so there is zero reason to think of "beating" Medaka in the terms of an enemy; only instead to think of "surpassing" her as a rival or comrade/friend.

On Unzen: Unzen's core motivation is "justice", or in other words, "punishment". His perspective is borne from a hatred of humanity coming from a belief that it is fundamentally depraved (i.e. that it requires guidance, that it will destroy itself, that the dumb beasts that are humanity will fall into debauchery if not controlled). Unzen's personality, based on his abnormality, is one of looking down upon the rest of humanity as inferior to himself. However, contrastingly, this same belief gives rise to another aspect of his self--that of the "good sempai", as he is human himself. Unzen's awareness of all the foolishness of all the humans whom he hates is what gives rise to his determination to protect them and guide them on their proper paths. To Unzen, a ten year old brat lol, the entire world are his underclassmen, whom he has to properly instruct and guide (and indeed, Unzen clearly does treat Yobuko, his sister, and at times even Medaka as underclassmen whom he needs to protect).

The fact is, Unzen indeed hates all of humanity. It is simply that, being human himself, he feels he has a duty to protect them from themselves. At the beginning of the story, it was in fact Unzen who planned to take the Flask Plan down by himself. However, when Medaka defeated him, Unzen was satisfied to pass that duty onto her. Even now, however, Unzen (and the rest of the Student Committee Union) consider Medaka (and the Student Council) equals rather than superiors. That is because they are rivals sharing the duty of protecting, and encouraging growth within, the students' daily lives.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 33/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-02-05 at 04:01.
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 14:57   Link #6855
Guernsey
The GAP Man
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Guernsey Send a message via MSN to Guernsey Send a message via Yahoo to Guernsey
Quote:
And it is precisely those kinds of "she's just different", common-man statements that Nishio called unsightly. If Zenkichi manages to get a 100% approval rating in the upcoming elections, are you then going to start calling him a genius? There is only one thing which distinguishes Medaka from a normal human, and that is that she is passionate. There is only one other thing which differentiates her from fellow people with character, and that is that she has been comparatively lucky. Medaka is no more a genius than you or me.
She sure could had fooled considering her character and her abilities. Medaka is larger than life, can 'normal' human pull all the students in the school? Even if she isn't a 'genius' per say, she does have many things that regular humans or even abnormals cannot seem to do.
__________________
Guernsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 14:59   Link #6856
Soji
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Europe
Guernsey@ She sure suprise Najimi there O_O.Now that I think about the only two people that do this to Najimi in a way or another ar Zen and Medaka .
Soji is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 17:11   Link #6857
Terizent
Nonsense!
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
There is only one thing which distinguishes Medaka from a normal human, and that is that she is passionate. There is only one other thing which differentiates her from fellow people with character, and that is that she has been comparatively lucky. Medaka is no more a genius than you or me.
I did not baffle and cause the suicides of leading scientists of the state with my awesome brainpower as a child. I do not possess eidetic memory and perfect recall. I cannot overcome the combined strength of 1000 teenagers. Are you arguing that had I put my mind to it, I would have been able to acquire these skills? Medaka IS a genius. Or, since you seem to be extremely intent on defending her not-genius, we can at the very least agree that Medaka is abnormally talented, can we not?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Have you heard of the phenomenon of autistic savantism? Even highly handicapped or challenged individuals have developed incredible skills or abilities as a result of devoting their entire attention and efforts to something. To claim that (for example) an IQ 80 individual by default might have less to offer to the field of physics than an IQ 180 individual, couldn't be farther from the truth.
Indeed, I have. I also know that many autistic savants are either A. geniuses in art, which in my opinion is not the kind of genius we are talking about, or B. people who suffer primarily from Asperger's, not something that usually causes mental retardation. And in Asperger's, a narrow and obsessive focus in one subject of interest is part of the symptoms or characteristics.

Plenty of geniuses had mental problems, but not mental retardation. For example, Tesla probably had OCD (washing hands, obsessed with the number three, etc.). Jefferson and Newton displayed many signs of Asperger's. Einstein couldn't find his way home, even though his office was something like 2 blocks away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Find your strengths as in, find something you're good at and which you are passionate about, then if you consistently devote your passion and efforts towards it--by the end of your life, you will have contributed far more to that area than Medaka herself could do.
OK, we're never going to reach an agreement on this, because my philosophy is that there's someone always better. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't strive to succeed or anything, but I'm not the kind of person who thinks that if I work really really really hard, I'll eventually become #1. On the other hand, you seem to be repeating that passion is the most important thing of all-which, given your dislike of Zenkichi, seems odd.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
On Unzen: Unzen's core motivation is "justice", or in other words, "punishment". His perspective is borne from a hatred of humanity coming from a belief that it is fundamentally depraved (i.e. that it requires guidance, that it will destroy itself, that the dumb beasts that are humanity will fall into debauchery if not controlled). Unzen's personality, based on his abnormality, is one of looking down upon the rest of humanity as inferior to himself. However, contrastingly, this same belief gives rise to another aspect of his self--that of the "good sempai", as he is human himself. Unzen's awareness of all the foolishness of all the humans whom he hates is what gives rise to his determination to protect them and guide them on their proper paths. To Unzen, a ten year old brat lol, the entire world are his underclassmen, whom he has to properly instruct and guide (and indeed, Unzen clearly does treat Yobuko, his sister, and at times even Medaka as underclassmen whom he needs to protect).

The fact is, Unzen indeed hates all of humanity. It is simply that, being human himself, he feels he has a duty to protect them from themselves. At the beginning of the story, it was in fact Unzen who planned to take the Flask Plan down by himself. However, when Medaka defeated him, Unzen was satisfied to pass that duty onto her. Even now, however, Unzen (and the rest of the Student Committee Union) consider Medaka (and the Student Council) equals rather than superiors. That is because they are rivals sharing the duty of protecting, and encouraging growth within, the students' daily lives.
So in effect, you agree that he does not hate everybody.
__________________
"Haha! But you're a good guy, right?" he chuckled.
Prologue---xiii
Terizent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 20:53   Link #6858
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
I did not baffle and cause the suicides of leading scientists of the state with my awesome brainpower as a child. I do not possess eidetic memory and perfect recall. I cannot overcome the combined strength of 1000 teenagers. Are you arguing that had I put my mind to it, I would have been able to acquire these skills? Medaka IS a genius. Or, since you seem to be extremely intent on defending her not-genius, we can at the very least agree that Medaka is abnormally talented, can we not?
I'm arguing that if you put your mind to it, you could accomplish the same kind of things (remembering, in the first place, that for all the wild impossible things Medaka does in this story, it is an exaggerated action Shounen manga. Zenkichi, a normal, runs vertically straight up walls. You have to adjust your expectations.). Whatever talents Medaka might have, they are immaterial compared to her will to actually make use of them.

Quote:
Indeed, I have. I also know that many autistic savants are either A. geniuses in art, which in my opinion is not the kind of genius we are talking about, or B. people who suffer primarily from Asperger's, not something that usually causes mental retardation. And in Asperger's, a narrow and obsessive focus in one subject of interest is part of the symptoms or characteristics.

Plenty of geniuses had mental problems, but not mental retardation. For example, Tesla probably had OCD (washing hands, obsessed with the number three, etc.). Jefferson and Newton displayed many signs of Asperger's. Einstein couldn't find his way home, even though his office was something like 2 blocks away.
What kind of genius are we talking about, then? As we've mentioned before, IQ has very little significance as a matter of what people actually accomplish with their lives. In reference to Medaka's talents, her abilities are not nearly limited to mental ones either. Why remove the subject of artistic geniuses, athletic geniuses, oratorical geniuses, etc. from the discussion? Medaka is an embodiment of talent/success in every field, so there are plenty of fields besides physics within which a person could compete with her.

Even mentally retarded people are capable of achieving something and contributing to society if they devote their whole being to something they're good at. With enough consistent effort, they could indeed challenge and surpass Medaka.

Quote:
OK, we're never going to reach an agreement on this, because my philosophy is that there's someone always better. It doesn't mean that I shouldn't strive to succeed or anything, but I'm not the kind of person who thinks that if I work really really really hard, I'll eventually become #1. On the other hand, you seem to be repeating that passion is the most important thing of all-which, given your dislike of Zenkichi, seems odd.
My dislike of Zenkichi stemmed from his "unsightly" attitude of always looking up to Medaka. He was passionate, sure, not about matching up to Medaka as an equal, but about "protecting" or "defending" her like some sort of saint or righteous goddess.

There's nothing incongruent between my statement that passion is most important and the idea that there's always someone better. The simple answer is that the better people are the ones who are more passionate--namely, for most fields of achievement, not Medaka--because what Medaka is passionate about is helping people (and in that arena, honestly, I don't expect her to lose to Zenkichi). Certainly, if you are passionate about physics, you may lose to somebody who is even more passionate about physics. My point is that Medaka's talent alone, however, is not enough to put her in that position.

Quote:
So in effect, you agree that he does not hate everybody.
Unzen does hate everybody (you can interpret Unzen's use of "hate" loosely, but it's still what he himself would say). Unzen simply feels he has a duty on top of that. At the core, what Unzen believes is that everybody needs to be controlled. Even if his motivation for that is to guide people onto proper, constructive paths, you cannot ignore that the starting concept Nishio used for his character was a disgust for the base nature of humanity (which I can sympathize with, which is also why from the start I was a fan of Unzen).
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 33/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 60/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 21:05   Link #6859
Tenchi Hou Take
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I'm arguing that if you put your mind to it, you could accomplish the same kind of things (remembering, in the first place, that for all the wild impossible things Medaka does in this story, it is an exaggerated action Shounen manga. Zenkichi, a normal, runs vertically straight up walls. You have to adjust your expectations.). Whatever talents Medaka might have, they are immaterial compared to her will to actually make use of them.



What kind of genius are we talking about, then? As we've mentioned before, IQ has very little significance as a matter of what people actually accomplish with their lives. In reference to Medaka's talents, her abilities are not nearly limited to mental ones either. Why remove the subject of artistic geniuses, athletic geniuses, oratorical geniuses, etc. from the discussion? Medaka is an embodiment of talent/success in every field, so there are plenty of fields besides physics within which a person could compete with her.

Even mentally retarded people are capable of achieving something and contributing to society if they devote their whole being to something they're good at. With enough consistent effort, they could indeed challenge and surpass Medaka.



My dislike of Zenkichi stemmed from his "unsightly" attitude of always looking up to Medaka. He was passionate, sure, not about matching up to Medaka as an equal, but about "protecting" or "defending" her like some sort of saint or righteous goddess.

There's nothing incongruent between my statement that passion is most important and the idea that there's always someone better. The simple answer is that the better people are the ones who are more passionate--namely, for most fields of achievement, not Medaka--because what Medaka is passionate about is helping people (and in that arena, honestly, I don't expect her to lose to Zenkichi). Certainly, if you are passionate about physics, you may lose to somebody who is even more passionate about physics. My point is that Medaka's talent alone, however, is not enough to put her in that position.



Unzen does hate everybody (you can interpret Unzen's use of "hate" loosely, but it's still what he himself would say). Unzen simply feels he has a duty on top of that. At the core, what Unzen believes is that everybody needs to be controlled. Even if his motivation for that is to guide people onto proper, constructive paths, you cannot ignore that the starting concept Nishio used for his character was a disgust for the base nature of humanity (which I can sympathize with, which is also why from the start I was a fan of Unzen).
What is this shit. Last I heard normal humans can't acquire abilities like "The End" without completely external influences e.g Shiranui. That alone makes the shit she does impossible to even regular humans in her universe. What the hell happened to your logic? Did it just disapear. I don't get it.

Well someone may be able to match her in one tiny specific field they wouldn't be able to achieve in even remotely similar timespan that she was able to do so, while she would have similar proficiency of everything else under the Sun.. She's broken ridiculously broken, even in her own universe where broken abilities are the norm. What worse she has natural shounen protagonist ability to pull shit completely out of her ass. I wouldn't be surprised if it was later later reavealed that she was an all knowing all powerful being that just decided to play around with mere mortals the way shit is going.
Tenchi Hou Take is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-02-05, 21:29   Link #6860
kenjtr
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Well medaka is really acting weird now , i mean she was weird but not that much weird . Pulling thousand humans then dance like its the most normal thing in the world also why is everyone going along with medakas selfishness , if i were there i would ignore medakas ridiculus game .

My idea is when medaka was doing great with zenkichis support just remember how she stood on water in the past , i think even if zenkichi didnt throwed that footing she was able do that trick . Medaka is capable of dong everything she needs no one and after everyone left her , she looks creepy because of that .

Lets think why medaka is happy being alone ; medaka is happy being alone cause she can do everything herself and when people takes too much time with simple problems she gets bored from watching them , when zenkichi couldnt figure out a simple problem she got bored from him instantly .

i also understand why medaka needed zenkichi ; its so simple actually zenkichi is so much holding back medaka and other people see her like human and dont disgust from her . When medaka is alone she is capable creepy girl but when she has zenkichi she looks human .

From now on everyone will start to hate medaka cause she can do anything and she has totally no empaty with people , its funny that all zenkichi needs to win the election was letting medaka be alone and let her self destruct
__________________
kenjtr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:22.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.