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Old 2012-02-26, 17:32   Link #7161
kenjtr
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I think Zenkichi basically just redirected Kikaijima's frustration, which was towards him at the moment, towards Medaka as a more constructive use of the situation. This was only possible because Kikaijima's target is both of them. It's not really that Zen is helping out Kikaijima--it's more that Zenkichi put her in a situation where (at least for the moment) she's better off focusing on Medaka rather than him.
But this also shows most of kikajimas anger was towards to medaka from the beginning so she possibly think medaka is the wrong one here .
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Old 2012-02-26, 19:22   Link #7162
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
I think Zenkichi basically just redirected Kikaijima's frustration, which was towards him at the moment, towards Medaka as a more constructive use of the situation. This was only possible because Kikaijima's target is both of them. It's not really that Zen is helping out Kikaijima--it's more that Zenkichi put her in a situation where (at least for the moment) she's better off focusing on Medaka rather than him.
Yeah but Kikajima has no idea what she's doing, that's my point, she's doing this because Kumagawa gave her the idea, and now Zen is pretty much telling her what to do. Which makes her convictions in all this seem very questionable. Basically she doesn't undertsand whats going on so she's simply following the waves and and due to Kumagawa's influences decided to stop it. She has no real substanial beliefs or convictions in regards to this.

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2012-02-26 at 19:35.
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Old 2012-02-26, 22:21   Link #7163
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
And? You don't have any examples of Kikaijima's "actions", you just have one very questionable claim of Kikaijima's "inaction" versus everything else she has ever done in the series.

I hardly see the support pouring out for you when nobody bothered to rebut my rebuttal of all your major arguments. You decided instead to nitpick an irrelevant side point that doesn't even support your primary argument (I thought you were trying to say that Kikaijima is "stupid/naive", not that she's a hypocrite), and the only "support" you managed to dredge up with that was from kenjtr and another self-confessed Zenkichi-fanboy.
Considering suikostar, terizent ALSO commented on your 'analysis' of Kikaijima, I hardly think me, kenjtr and Tenchi are the only ones who think your view of things are skewed. But considering you can't even count the no. of people who commented on your view (4 other people suddenly become 2 -_-) I think we can understand how your mind works.

Btw, it's now suikostar, terizent, last carpet, me, kenjtr and tenchi. I guess we're all wrong and you're the only right one with the correct analysis of everything that was shown in the manga and everything that wasn't shown as well. Yes, this is sarcasm btw, I just had to be clear on that since you seem to be capable of missing a lot of stuff
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Old 2012-02-27, 00:09   Link #7164
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Yeah but Kikajima has no idea what she's doing, that's my point, she's doing this because Kumagawa gave her the idea, and now Zen is pretty much telling her what to do. Which makes her convictions in all this seem very questionable. Basically she doesn't undertsand whats going on so she's simply following the waves and and due to Kumagawa's influences decided to stop it. She has no real substanial beliefs or convictions in regards to this.
Kumagawa gave Kikaijima the idea and confidence to oppose Zenkichi/Medaka. He did not give her the motivation. Kikaijima was against the fighting between Medaka and Zenkichi from the very beginning, and her feelings of "this is wrong" were based on the ideals and happiness she experienced at the end of the Treasure Hunt orientation. Kikaijima was also the mastermind behind the entire "Bloody Sevens" strategy. Kikaijima is actively leading and participating in her goal of stopping the conflict between Zenkichi and Medaka.

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Originally Posted by evil|plushie View Post
Considering suikostar, terizent ALSO commented on your 'analysis' of Kikaijima, I hardly think me, kenjtr and Tenchi are the only ones who think your view of things are skewed. But considering you can't even count the no. of people who commented on your view (4 other people suddenly become 2 -_-) I think we can understand how your mind works.

Btw, it's now suikostar, terizent, last carpet, me, kenjtr and tenchi. I guess we're all wrong and you're the only right one with the correct analysis of everything that was shown in the manga and everything that wasn't shown as well. Yes, this is sarcasm btw, I just had to be clear on that since you seem to be capable of missing a lot of stuff
Christ, do you even want to talk about the manga or do you want to talk about people. Various other posters' comments on what I've written don't have anything to do with the points you were making. Between what I have written and what you have posted, yes it is true that I've presented a better supported analysis.
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Old 2012-02-27, 01:46   Link #7165
evil|plushie
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Sure, that's why everyone is rebutting you. You can't even understand that it's not even about whether they agree with the points I'm making, it's the fact they find something wrong with the points YOU'RE making, most of which are in an attempt to rebut me. But what do you expect from someone who skews everything in his favor. And who thinks everyone else is wrong. And that his opinion is the only correct one.
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Old 2012-02-27, 03:56   Link #7166
Terizent
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
You decided instead to nitpick an irrelevant side point that doesn't even support your primary argument (I thought you were trying to say that Kikaijima is "stupid/naive", not that she's a hypocrite), and the only "support" you managed to dredge up with that was from kenjtr and another self-confessed Zenkichi-fanboy.
>"Self-confessed Zenkichi-fanboy"
>Discriminating against Zenkichi fans
>Implying that Zenkichi fans are always wrong and their words must be taken with a truckload of salt
>Implying that, despite his poor grammar/spelling, kenjtr is not a Zenkichi fanboy

Er, Sol? If I'm a fanboy, doesn't that make you a Medaka/Kumagawa/Kikaijima Whiteknight?

Quote:
Kikaijima is actively leading and participating in her goal of stopping the conflict between Zenkichi and Medaka.
Except, you know, in the newest chapter where she starts whining about how it's ALL Zenkichi and Medaka's fault for trying to shatter her normal life and actually needs Zen to prompt her into action.
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Old 2012-02-27, 04:34   Link #7167
evil|plushie
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i think he was referring to tenchi but i could be wrong about that.

kikaijima's such an easy girl >_> Always going with the easy option, not stopping Medaka, getting sucked into Kumagawa's logic and starting her own faction to preserve an easy status quo instead of changing and now having to depend on her opponent to give her a pep talk. Go Kikaijima, that easiness of yours is what defines you!
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Old 2012-02-27, 04:52   Link #7168
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
>"Self-confessed Zenkichi-fanboy"
>Discriminating against Zenkichi fans
>Implying that Zenkichi fans are always wrong and their words must be taken with a truckload of salt
>Implying that, despite his poor grammar/spelling, kenjtr is not a Zenkichi fanboy

Er, Sol? If I'm a fanboy, doesn't that make you a Medaka/Kumagawa/Kikaijima Whiteknight?
lol, I didn't imply that kenjtr wasn't a Zenkichi fanboy. Just that his posts are on a whole other level. And sure, you can call me a Medaka/Kumagawa/Kikaijima white knight. Unzen too. I like a lot of characters.

Quote:
Except, you know, in the newest chapter where she starts whining about how it's ALL Zenkichi and Medaka's fault for trying to shatter her normal life and actually needs Zen to prompt her into action.
Zen cornered her into a situation where Kikaijima was forced to act. In the previous chapter, Kikaijima actively identified that there was a weakness in the Naked Apron Alliance's strategy (that Zen and Medaka like enemies). She hasn't had a chance yet to formulate an alternative strategy to get around that result. The frustration from that is one of the primary reasons why in this chapter, she was acting cross.
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Old 2012-02-27, 09:28   Link #7169
MD84
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Kikaijima knows what she wants -- to have everything back to the way it was when everyone got along. She just doesn't have a clue how to do it.
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Old 2012-02-27, 09:41   Link #7170
kenjtr
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
Kikaijima knows what she wants -- to have everything back to the way it was when everyone got along. She just doesn't have a clue how to do it.
But the problem is if they can get along , now that zenkchi wants medaka to love him he doesnt want to go back the way things was . If zenkichi apoligised after medaka beat him everything would go back the way it was but he made his resolution and wanted to try to steal medakas heart . Zenkichi wants more now he wont be satisfied with the things it was cause no matter how you look at it zenkichi wont be medakas slave anymore since he know all his obedience was because he loved her .
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Old 2012-02-27, 09:53   Link #7171
evil|plushie
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
Kikaijima knows what she wants -- to have everything back to the way it was when everyone got along. She just doesn't have a clue how to do it.
she's also forgetting that two of the most impt people she wants to go back to the way it was, DON'T want to go back to the way it was.
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Old 2012-02-27, 11:34   Link #7172
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Kumagawa gave Kikaijima the idea and confidence to oppose Zenkichi/Medaka. He did not give her the motivation. Kikaijima was against the fighting between Medaka and Zenkichi from the very beginning, and her feelings of "this is wrong" were based on the ideals and happiness she experienced at the end of the Treasure Hunt orientation. Kikaijima was also the mastermind behind the entire "Bloody Sevens" strategy. Kikaijima is actively leading and participating in her goal of stopping the conflict between Zenkichi and Medaka.


None of that means much of anything, she's good with numbers and gambling, that's not a proof of motivation more of a proof of competance. Fact of the matter is she didn't even stop the fight nor try to stop the fight nor gave any implication that she wanted to stop the fight during or directly after the fight occured. She did not have any motivation before Kumagawa gave it to her and ironically you just contradicted yourself by saying she did. You can't have motivation without an idea or drive. What she had was contempt for the situation. Just because I dislike something doesn't automatically mean I have the motivation to change it, motivation is something else which Kumagawa gave her.

She does not have a an actual reason why this rift must not occur for this period of time nor does she have an actual solution to the core problem of the rift. She simply doesn't want the rift to occur. That is why she IS naive. It's pretty impossible to say she isn't at least to some degree.
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Old 2012-02-27, 16:10   Link #7173
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
None of that means much of anything, she's good with numbers and gambling, that's not a proof of motivation more of a proof of competance. Fact of the matter is she didn't even stop the fight nor try to stop the fight nor gave any implication that she wanted to stop the fight during or directly after the fight occured. She did not have any motivation before Kumagawa gave it to her and ironically you just contradicted yourself by saying she did. You can't have motivation without an idea or drive. What she had was contempt for the situation. Just because I dislike something doesn't automatically mean I have the motivation to change it, motivation is something else which Kumagawa gave her.

She does not have a an actual reason why this rift must not occur for this period of time nor does she have an actual solution to the core problem of the rift. She simply doesn't want the rift to occur. That is why she IS naive. It's pretty impossible to say she isn't at least to some degree.
That is semantics. Kikaijima disliked the fight--that means she did want to stop it so long as she had the power or method to. Kumagawa suggested to her a method, and told her he would help her giving her a boost in confidence that she had enough power to go through with it. None of this changes that the conversation arose from Kikaijima asking "I don't know what to do about Medaka and Zen" in the first place.
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HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
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Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2012-02-27, 17:06   Link #7174
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
That is semantics. Kikaijima disliked the fight--that means she did want to stop it so long as she had the power or method to. Kumagawa suggested to her a method, and told her he would help her giving her a boost in confidence that she had enough power to go through with it. None of this changes that the conversation arose from Kikaijima asking "I don't know what to do about Medaka and Zen" in the first place.
Yeah no, just becase you dislike something doesn't mean you'll neccessarily go out of your way to stop it which she didn't. Your free to believe what you want but facts ae facts.
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Old 2012-02-27, 23:04   Link #7175
[HearT]
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cover for vol 14, small as sin tho, lol
Spoiler for .:


totally diggin' it
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Old 2012-02-28, 01:47   Link #7176
Terizent
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Hipster-kun has white hair? Do not want.

I always thought that he was blond. And that Shiranui was pink haired. And Nabeshima most certainly should not have been green haired.
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Old 2012-02-28, 03:45   Link #7177
konart
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Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
Hipster-kun has white hair? Do not want.

I always thought that he was blond. And that Shiranui was pink haired. And Nabeshima most certainly should not have been green haired.
looks a bit green though.
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Old 2012-02-28, 09:38   Link #7178
pir
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Why Ajimu wants defeat Мedaka? She can simply wait 3 years. What she can gain from defeat Medaka?
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Old 2012-02-28, 09:44   Link #7179
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terizent View Post
Hipster-kun has white hair? Do not want.

I always thought that he was blond. And that Shiranui was pink haired. And Nabeshima most certainly should not have been green haired.
pink hair? She appeared with blue hair in the second chapter's colour page >.>
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Old 2012-02-28, 09:48   Link #7180
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Seem to me she want Zen to defeat Medaka. I mean she sure make damn sure to had him to her side or better do what she want.
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