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Old 2012-04-30, 08:28   Link #8401
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
Because I wasn't sure what it was implying, we didn't add anything to the translation that wasn't already there. It said first generation of the flask plan, no where did it say "new flask plan". What that means exactly I can't really give you a concrete answer on. It probably is implying the new flask plan. I figure we'll get more info on that later, specifically when it's explained how she joined.

Personally though, I believe it would make more sense if she was the result of the new flask plan. The flask plan has been around for a long time, there's no way she could be part of the first testers for the plan. The only other possibility is for her to be a product of it. But I can't change the translation simply because it would make the most sense. With cases like this, what's there is there.
Well, you didn't write "first generation of the flask plan", you wrote "from the first generation flask plan" which has a completely different meaning, and explicitly excludes her being from the new flask plan. So while I can appreciate the translator's need to leave ambiguity when necessary, what ended up in the scan removed ambiguity, in a way that doesn't make much sense.

Maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere in the process?
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Old 2012-04-30, 08:55   Link #8402
noobita
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Is it just me or recent Medaka chapters are not as good as previous 50 chapters?
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:01   Link #8403
Clarste
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It's the beginning of a new arc, it probably needs some time to get into a good pace. Although I thought 143 was hilarious.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:03   Link #8404
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Well, you didn't write "first generation of the flask plan", you wrote "from the first generation flask plan" which has a completely different meaning, and explicitly excludes her being from the new flask plan. So while I can appreciate the translator's need to leave ambiguity when necessary, what ended up in the scan removed ambiguity, in a way that doesn't make much sense.

Maybe there was a miscommunication somewhere in the process?
Eh? really? hm, you're not wrong here, I'll bring it up but yeah it'll need some fixing.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:05   Link #8405
noobita
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It's the beginning of a new arc, it probably needs some time to get into a good pace. Although I thought 143 was hilarious.
Even you said so, but the previous president election arc isn't that good too compare to previous arcs.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:10   Link #8406
Xiyon
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Is it just me or recent Medaka chapters are not as good as previous 50 chapters?
I'm quite excited for the upcoming chapters, actually. We finally have a non-broken team, and Zenkichi's Devil Style means he - and everyone else - actually has to work for their victories. Take this opening skirmish for instance; the council came prepared, unlike Medaka's team who just waltz in guns blazing.

And now they're up against the suitors who somehow managed to beat/capture/contain and transport all the 'Jokers'; anybody figured out how that happened yet? I'm going with bribery...

Here's to hoping there won't be any boring card games in the future~
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:10   Link #8407
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by noobita View Post
Even you said so, but the previous president election arc isn't that good too compare to previous arcs.
You say that but Medaka Box only really has one truly good arc, which was Minus 13, flask plan. First arc, enforcers and to some degree election and treasure hunt arc were mostly in the simply okay category.

You can't really says something currently isn't as good as before when there's only really one arc you compare it to.

It's like saying Bleach hasn't been good in the past 50 chapters, hundred chapters etc. Bleach was only really good during soul society and some periods afterwards their was never a consistent quality to compare it to.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:15   Link #8408
FFXFan13
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It still all comes down to personal taste in the end though. I agree with noobita, in that the previous arc really wasn't all that great, outside of a couple of good scenes.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:20   Link #8409
Tenchi Hou Take
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It still all comes down to personal taste in the end though.
Pretty much I was simply referring to widely regarded (mostly from western impressions rather than japanese).

I'm actually quite looking to arc since it seem the most similar to the Kumagawa arc in it's light hearted Shounen battle style with most likely some genre awareness. Thx to Zenkichi's crew being quite likely to get proper fights, it just needs a proper well established villain/villains.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:23   Link #8410
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Pretty much I was simply referring to widely regarded (mostly from western impressions rather than japanese).

I'm actually quite looking to arc since it seem the most similar to the Kumagawa arc in it's light hearted Shounen battle style with most likely some genre awareness. Thx to Zenkichi's crew being quite likely to get proper fights, it just needs a proper well established villain/villains.
I don't know... I'm kinda hoping that, Zenkichi's crew stays one step behind Medaka's the entire time, and get to fight the people who Medaka's Joker's beat, so that we can see the difference between them.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:28   Link #8411
Tenchi Hou Take
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I don't know... I'm kinda hoping that, Zenkichi's crew stays one step behind Medaka's the entire time, and get to fight the people who Medaka's Joker's beat, so that we can see the difference between them.
I see little point. Medaka's joker's are essentially a group of people with plot devices as powers, they can't die one has quadrizzilon skills, the other can negate reality, another can make any skills he wants and one can pretty much copy skills by description (plus MC plot armor).

You cannot have anything remotely resembling traditional Shounen fights with such a group of characters or at least anything with an actual meaning and tension without things getting retarded. Basically the less those people have to do with fights the better. Especially Aijimu.

The only one their that could potentially have a decent fight is Kumagawa, but he still can't die and can negate shit, and seems to have his own personal trope of always losing.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:31   Link #8412
Xiyon
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
I don't know... I'm kinda hoping that, Zenkichi's crew stays one step behind Medaka's the entire time, and get to fight the people who Medaka's Joker's beat, so that we can see the difference between them.
I...don't see the fun in that. Wouldn't that be like kicking a downed rabid puppy?
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:34   Link #8413
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
I see little point. Medaka's joker's are essentially a group of people with plot devices as powers, they can't die one has quadrizzilon skills, the other can negate reality, another can make any skills he wants and one can pretty much copy skills by description (plus MC plot armor).

You cannot have anything remotely resembling traditional Shounen fights with such a group of characters or at least anything with an actual meaning and tension without things getting retarded. Basically the less those people have to do with fights the better. Especially Aijimu.
Which is why it doesn't have to be a traditional shounen fight. Even if most of what the Joker's do is interact with each other, and curb stomp the suitors, they can still have Zenkichi's group fight the defeated suitor, after Medaka's team has left.

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I...don't see the fun in that. Wouldn't that be like kicking a downed rabid puppy?
How?
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:44   Link #8414
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
Which is why it doesn't have to be a traditional shounen fight. Even if most of what the Joker's do is interact with each other, and curb stomp the suitors, they can still have Zenkichi's group fight the defeated suitor, after Medaka's team has left.


How?
Which serves little to no purpose. If your going to have fights having a bunch of people fight the left over losers from previous battles doesn't make for particularily hyped and exciting battles.

It also makes zero sense if the antagonists have lost before, why would they need to be fought again. It makes more sense if the jokers simply didn't fight them and they got captured through some other means e.g willingly etc.

If Nisio's going to tense battles, as a main proponent of an arc at least do it properly it's completely worthless if they have no hype or story purpose. Which is why if Nisio plans to continue doing the traditional shounen fights in this manga to any degree (whether it has some weird variations or not), most of the jokers should simply not engage in battle, and if they do in very rare and special occurences and use their involvement for other things.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:46   Link #8415
Xiyon
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
Which is why it doesn't have to be a traditional shounen fight. Even if most of what the Joker's do is interact with each other, and curb stomp the suitors, they can still have Zenkichi's group fight the defeated suitor, after Medaka's team has left.


How?
They'd be beating an already beaten foe. There's really not much point in seeing that. One of the aspects that make battles interesting is because when foes are first introduced, you don't know how to beat them. Then, as the fight progresses, a formulaic 'sense of loss' sets in as the foe reveals an 'unbeatable' trump card/special move, which makes scoring a victory against them all the more sweeter when the flaw in such trump card is revealed.

If the Suitors had already lost to the Jokers, then we know they can be beaten, which means whatever trump card they have isn't all that, well, trumping.

And, what started this Suitors arc is Medaka trying to stop the Wedding Feast. If her team already beat them, even off-screen, then there's not much point to it already since the problem is solved.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:47   Link #8416
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Which serves little to no purpose. If your going to have fights having a bunch of people fight the left over losers from previous battles doesn't make for particularily hyped and exciting battles.

It also makes zero sense if the antagonists have lost before, why would they need to be fought again. It makes more sense if the jokers simply didn't fight them and they got captured through some other means e.g willingly etc.

If Nisio's going to tense battles, as a main proponent of an arc at least do it properly it's completely worthless if they have no hype or story purpose. Which is why if Nisio plans to continue doing the traditional shounen fights in this manga to any degree (whether it has some weird variations or not), most of the jokers should simply not engage in battle, and if they do in very rare and special occurences and use their involvement for other things.
Seems pretty boring in my opinion, it's not like we don't already know who's gonna win the fight anyway. Zenkichi, despite his ability, does still have his plot armour.

If your going to have fights where the winner is obvious, then you might as well have the more fun characters on screen.


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Originally Posted by Xiyon View Post
They'd be beating an already beaten foe. There's really not much point in seeing that. One of the aspects that make battles interesting is because when foes are first introduced, you don't know how to beat them. Then, as the fight progresses, a formulaic 'sense of loss' sets in as the foe reveals an 'unbeatable' trump card/special move, which makes scoring a victory against them all the more sweeter when the flaw in such trump card is revealed.

If the Suitors had already lost to the Jokers, then we know they can be beaten, which means whatever trump card they have isn't all that, well, trumping.

And, what started this Suitors arc is Medaka trying to stop the Wedding Feast. If her team already beat them, even off-screen, then there's not much point to it already since the problem is solved.
Except, Zenkichi's team wouldn't have beaten them before, and would still need to win, in order to find the next location. As for the trump cards, well, it's not like they would work on most of the Joker's anyway.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:49   Link #8417
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
Seems pretty boring in my opinion, it's not like we don't already know who's gonna win the fight anyway. Zenkichi, despite his ability, does still have his plot armour.
But he can lose, get his ass kicked draw get saved from other people and few dozen other things. You can't exactly say the same for the jokers. The closest thing to a lose for a lot of them would be permanent imprisonment even that wouldn't work for a lot of them. It simply gets silly for characters that powerful.

It's ok if you don't like shounen battles, but it did play a very important part in Medaka box's popularity and Nisio will most probably focus on it at least to some degree.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:51   Link #8418
FFXFan13
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
But he can lose, get his ass kicked draw get saved from other people and few dozen other things. You can't exactly say the same for the jokers. The closest thing to a lose for a lot of them would be permanent imprisonment even that wouldn't work for a lot of them.
Just because he can, doesn't mean he will. At this point, he needs to win so he will. It's pretty obvious he's not going to loose, so there's no tension anyway.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:53   Link #8419
novalysis
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
Just because he can, doesn't mean he will. At this point, he needs to win so he will. It's pretty obvious he's not going to loose, so there's no tension anyway.
Actually, if Nisio chooses to troll us all, and have Zenkichi loose...

THAT would make alot of people seat up and take notice. Especially if he looses after a determined, dogged and often close series of fights, to factors beyond his control. Perhaps even through his Devil Style, which implicitly demands the MC to loose if he is up against too great a power disparity that not even wit can triumph instead. The sort of Power gap that'd force Nabeshima the Foul Queen to play dead, for example.

Of course, it also depends on whether Zenkichi's battles will serve a greater strategic purpose. Nisio could well troll us with epic and cool battles, then mock the necessity and use of such battles.

It also depends on what kind of tests of strength are involved. Not merely combat.

After all, the Election Arc did not boil down to a Battle of raw combat strength, in the end, despite what first impressions might have suggested at the beginning of the whole affair.

On another note, personally, I found Bloody Seven and much of the Student Council Arc interesting, but not suitable for a manga format- especially one with an action-shounen undertone. It felt like I was reading a LN instead.
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Old 2012-04-30, 09:55   Link #8420
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by FFXFan13 View Post
Just because he can, doesn't mean he will. At this point, he needs to win so he will. It's pretty obvious he's not going to loose, so there's no tension anyway.
He doesn't have to win. Consiering he came with a team of 4 other people who are more than capable of taking the slack. Zenkichi doesn't even generally win not sure where you got that idea, he won against Munkata (though obviously if he it was a life or death battle he would have lost), lost against Medaka, drew at best against Kumagawa (through really he lost by default), lost against Medaka again and managed to "win" in a team battle with against Munkae (through he really almost lost again thanks to Kumagawa), his plot armour isn't particularily strong. Due to fact he's almost always at a major disadvantage.

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Actually, if Nisio chooses to troll us all, and have Zenkichi loose...

THAT would make alot of people seat up and take notice.
Not really Zenkichi if you look at the manga does that such a great track record. He simply has interesting battles that most involve him getting fucked up hence then tension.
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