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Old 2012-04-30, 13:44   Link #8441
Xiyon
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
lol, a lot of you guys seem to seriously think this will be happening, so I will enjoy seeing it when it doesn't. For the moment, I hardly even expect most of these fiance candidates to even be permanent/frequently reappearing characters.
It will depend on which of the suitors is most popular, I guess. They'll probably reform, and the most popular one will join our cast as a recurring character.

Anybody know if Wanizuka's the most popular among the Middle Schoolers? On another note, can't say I'm too happy Wani's using a gun...what happened to her sword? !
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Old 2012-04-30, 13:55   Link #8442
Sol Falling
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The reason Wanizuka is recurring probably has to do with her backstory as Munakata's sister (she used to be an Abnormal, remember) and her future relationship with Akune. None of the other cadets had nearly an equivalent amount of setup.

It remains to be seen whether Nishio will introduce some particular greater significance to any of the fiance candidates, but I don't think long-term relevance to the story will be decided on the basis of popularity.
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Old 2012-04-30, 14:56   Link #8443
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The reason Wanizuka is recurring probably has to do with her backstory as Munakata's sister (she used to be an Abnormal, remember) and her future relationship with Akune. None of the other cadets had nearly an equivalent amount of setup.

It remains to be seen whether Nishio will introduce some particular greater significance to any of the fiance candidates, but I don't think long-term relevance to the story will be decided on the basis of popularity.
Emphasis added.

On the contrary, isn't that exactly why she ended up being Munakata's sister? Munakata was ridiculously popular for someone who never showed up, ever, and then he suddenly gets two plot twists added to his resume?

I don't doubt that Nisio is skilled enough to make the fact that she's his sister actually mean something (probably another 50 chapters down the line), but I also think it's a bit naive to imagine that he planned for her to have such importance. Or rather, for being Munakata's sister to even be something that might be considered important.
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Old 2012-04-30, 15:20   Link #8444
Tenchi Hou Take
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It's seems mostly obvious at this point that Nisio has a rough idea for Medaka box but dosn't have it planned in a very, very detailed manner e.g Oda's level of detail or even anything remotely comparable.

The fact that there was a genre shift part way through manga due to poor reception that he likely didn't expect makes it very likely. Also the general set up for this arc hints further to this. He's probably planned the most major plot points but likely winging it in a fair bit of the others.

I doubt he panders all that much to popularity though, mostly just bits here and their as well as given certain populars charactersa bit morw focus than they otherwise would have gotten but nothing significant, in whatever he currently has in mind for the grand plot of the manga.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:01   Link #8445
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
The fact that there was a genre shift part way through manga due to poor reception that he likely didn't expect makes it very likely.
The genre shift was almost definitely planned from the beginning; NisiOisiN doesn't write generic Sket Dance ripoffs.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:06   Link #8446
kantou
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The reason Wanizuka is recurring probably has to do with her backstory as Munakata's sister (she used to be an Abnormal, remember) and her future relationship with Akune. None of the other cadets had nearly an equivalent amount of setup.

It remains to be seen whether Nishio will introduce some particular greater significance to any of the fiance candidates, but I don't think long-term relevance to the story will be decided on the basis of popularity.
I prefer Suishou Kibougaoka is the most talented
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:07   Link #8447
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
The genre shift was almost definitely planned from the beginning; NisiOisiN doesn't write generic Sket Dance ripoffs.
The fact the manga almost got cancelled before hints it wasn't planned at that time. I not sure about you butI don't thinks shits never that convient.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:39   Link #8448
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by kantou View Post
I prefer Suishou Kibougaoka is the most talented
I did very much like Kibougaoka's cooking chapter...but I'm okay with Shori being the one on the Student Council. Well, hopefully the other middle school cadets will at least occasionally show up or get a cameo here or there.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:41   Link #8449
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
The fact the manga almost got cancelled before hints it wasn't planned at that time.
It had absurdly low ratings but I've never seen any evidence that it was "almost cancelled".

Again, Nisio simply doesn't write light, episodic plotless stories like that.
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:42   Link #8450
K. Shiruto
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
The genre shift was almost definitely planned from the beginning; NisiOisiN doesn't write generic Sket Dance ripoffs.
Agreed. You have got to be dumb to not notice how Nisio had the genre shift already in mind. You just need to look at Medaka in the early chapters to understand she's not your normal average girl. Plus Zenkichi during chapter 13: "Medaka-chan's 4th trump card (Perses Mode)... I better not tell you anything about that." (while talking to Kikaijima)
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Old 2012-04-30, 16:50   Link #8451
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
It had absurdly low ratings but I've never seen any evidence that it was "almost cancelled".

Again, Nisio simply doesn't write light, episodic plotless stories like that.
There was evidence of more action in the plot, sure their was action in the very first chapter. their was likely going to be some more the that but the fact Medaka box went two straight completely traditional shounen battle manga arcs before finally reverting towards slice of life with some battle elements kinda goes against your point. It's fair too dramatic a shift and going by Nisio's current style didn't seem to be what he most likely originally intended.

Point was Nisio likely put in a heck of a lot more standard shounen battle manga during that point of the manga than he had originally planned. With most likely these later arcs being the amount of shounen battle manga elements he originally wanted.

And lets not be in denile here had Medaka box continued at that rate without a genre shift at that point in time it most probably would have been cancelled considering jumps cut throat nature. The fact the genre shift came at that specific moment makes it far too convient for it to have been introduced at that precise moment and not some term later. It's obvious Nisoo had originally plannned to add more battle shouen elemenst from the start but the precise moment and amount he added at the point, pointa towards him he changing his plan a bit to avoid the ratings getting worse.
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Old 2012-04-30, 17:24   Link #8452
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
There was evidence of more action in the plot, sure their was action in the very first chapter. their was likely going to be some more the that but the fact Medaka box went two straight completely traditional shounen battle manga arcs before finally reverting towards slice of life with some battle elements kinda goes against your point. It's fair too dramatic a shift and going by Nisio's current style didn't seem to be what he most likely originally intended.

Point was Nisio likely put in a heck of a lot more standard shounen battle manga during that point of the manga than he had originally planned. With most likely these later arcs being the amount of shounen battle manga elements he originally wanted.

And lets not be in denile here had Medaka box continued at that rate without a genre shift at that point in time it most probably would have been cancelled considering jumps cut throat nature. The fact the genre shift came at that specific moment makes it far too convient for it to have been introduced at that precise moment and not some term later. It's obvious Nisoo had originally plannned to add more battle shouen elemenst from the start but the precise moment and amount he added at the point, pointa towards him he changing his plan a bit to avoid the ratings getting worse.
Medaka Box shifted genres pretty much immediately with the arc that introduced Unzen. That's like 16 chapters in. I wouldn't say that had anything to do with reacting to bad ratings so much that Nishio planned to finish his initial setup for the story within that period anyway.

It's a pretty smooth transition: Introduce Medaka/Zen joins the SC --> couple SoL chapters --> Akune joins the SC --> couple SoL chapters --> Kikaijima joins the SC --> transition into Unzen. There isn't all that much more that could've been padded or added into the story given that structure. If you're saying Nishio switched up the timing of his "genre shift" in response to the ratings, at best Nishio only had a fudging room of one or two chapters.

(Well actually, in the first place, looking at the ranking histories: most of Medaka Box's bad rankings occurred during the chapters of the genre shift. Prior to that, in like the first 6 weeks it had actual rankings, Medaka Box wasn't doing amazing, but it's not like it was hanging at the bottom of the bottom 5 or anything. So basically: Nishio couldn't have planned the "genre shift" based on rankings unless he was seeing the future.)
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Old 2012-04-30, 17:56   Link #8453
novalysis
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
TBF that theory has already been contradicted, the mere fact they left someone behind to kill any and all people that arrived on the ship, means they'd be more than willing to use violent means at the very least to get rid of Zenkichi and co at any possible chance, meaning any fiances they do meet will very likely eventually end in violence regardless of the current situation of the Jokers. Which would according to theory turn it into a cliche Shounen rescue arc with a slight twist.
.
I must caution you not to take anything in Medaka Box at face value, or trust the words of every character blindly. Going by these standards, the villains ought to have won in the previous arcs, going by the superficial situation

The objective of the one left behind might be to delay instead, not outright kill.

Ultimately, I'd imagine that you are both proceeding from different directions. One of you is looking through the lenses of a traditional Shounen plot, the other is looking through another lens that is probably closer to Seinen.

So, ultimately, you still haven't posited a theory as to what are the suitors ultimate objectives. Because the fact that one of them apparently gladly and faithfully remained on the carrier suggests that the initial set-up of the Arc is a Red-herring. There is something else going on here.

Medaka Box has never been a traditional Shounen. Anytime it veers into that direction, it can't resist mocking that genre.
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Old 2012-04-30, 18:07   Link #8454
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Medaka Box shifted genres pretty much immediately with the arc that introduced Unzen. That's like 16 chapters in. I wouldn't say that had anything to do with reacting to bad ratings so much that Nishio planned to finish his initial setup for the story within that period anyway.

It's a pretty smooth transition: Introduce Medaka/Zen joins the SC --> couple SoL chapters --> Akune joins the SC --> couple SoL chapters --> Kikaijima joins the SC --> transition into Unzen. There isn't all that much more that could've been padded or added into the story given that structure. If you're saying Nishio switched up the timing of his "genre shift" in response to the ratings, at best Nishio only had a fudging room of one or two chapters.

(Well actually, in the first place, looking at the ranking histories: most of Medaka Box's bad rankings occurred during the chapters of the genre shift. Prior to that, in like the first 6 weeks it had actual rankings, Medaka Box wasn't doing amazing, but it's not like it was hanging at the bottom of the bottom 5 or anything. So basically: Nishio couldn't have planned the "genre shift" based on rankings unless he was seeing the future.)
It was in bottom 5, 3 months after release while being bumped by a few color pages etc. Considering ToC is a few weeks-months behind, that is terrible and was due to the slice of life stuff. It most certainly would have been cancelled at that rate. Very quickly too hence why shit need to changed stat. Again Nisio likely would have continued his slight amount of Shounen battle manga shit in slice of life but most likely not in such a dramtic shift. Basically the enforcer arc probably would have remained largely the same. The entire flask plan arc been straight up battle shounen with barely any lampshading was most probably not according to the plan.

Quote:
Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
I must caution you not to take anything in Medaka Box at face value, or trust the words of every character blindly. Going by these standards, the villains ought to have won in the previous arcs, going by the superficial situation

The objective of the one left behind might be to delay instead, not outright kill.

Ultimately, I'd imagine that you are both proceeding from different directions. One of you is looking through the lenses of a traditional Shounen plot, the other is looking through another lens that is probably closer to Seinen.

So, ultimately, you still haven't posited a theory as to what are the suitors ultimate objectives. Because the fact that one of them apparently gladly and faithfully remained on the carrier suggests that the initial set-up of the Arc is a Red-herring. There is something else going on here.

Medaka Box has never been a traditional Shounen. Anytime it veers into that direction, it can't resist mocking that genre.

Medaka box follows the majority of shounen cliches etc, the only real time that wasn't the case was aijimu arc and even that in the end had ridiculous Shounen conversion of the bad guy. It subverts it a bit with a few twists here and there but for the most part it stays riduclous close to that standard shounen, that is part of the point of it's mockery of it. This arc probably won't be entirely standard shounen but those tropes will remain which is why I find it weird to assume that at least not a fair amount would focus on battles to some degree, especially considering Medaka's popularity currently.

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2012-04-30 at 18:21.
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Old 2012-04-30, 18:31   Link #8455
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
It was in bottom 5, 3 months after release while being bumped by a few color pages etc. Considering ToC is a few weeks-months behind, that is terrible and was due to the slice of life stuff. It most certainly would have been cancelled at that rate. Very quickly too hence why shit need to changed stat. Again Nisio likely would have continued his slight amount of Shounen battle manga shit in slice of life but most likely not in such a dramtic shift. Basically the enforcer arc probably would have remained largely the same. The entire flask plan arc been straight up battle shounen with barely any lampshading was most probably not according to the plan.
Entering the bottom 5 once by chapter 12 is not anywhere near cancellation levels for a new Jump manga. And by chapter 14, Medaka Box was already entering the Enforcers arc. Hell, for chrissakes, by chapter 14, Medaka Box had only even recieved 6 actual ToC rankings. So yes, in the end it is downright impossible to attribute Medaka Box's "genre shift" into a battle manga to rankings.
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Old 2012-04-30, 18:43   Link #8456
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Entering the bottom 5 once by chapter 12 is not anywhere near cancellation levels for a new Jump manga. And by chapter 14, Medaka Box was already entering the Enforcers arc. Hell, for chrissakes, by chapter 14, Medaka Box had only even recieved 6 actual ToC rankings. So yes, in the end it is downright impossible to attribute Medaka Box's "genre shift" into a battle manga to rankings.
Considering how most jump series goes yes it does, precisely how many do you pay attention to theirs a fair amount that end by the mid twenties so that's a pretty ridiculous argument say reaching so low so early on doesn't matter. The vast majority of Jump manga's end in cancellation and they end early very early.

It's not the fact that the enforcer arc had some battle shounen elements Medaka box ALWAYS had that, it's the arc the succeeded it that was the real genre shift.
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Old 2012-04-30, 18:51   Link #8457
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I get the feeling that we will see fight between Kamome Tsurubami vs Zenkichi Hitoyoshi
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Old 2012-04-30, 19:19   Link #8458
Tenchi Hou Take
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I get the feeling that we will see fight between Kamome Tsurubami vs Zenkichi Hitoyoshi
Didn't that already happen, I don't really see the need to repeat that. Sure neither went all out and Zenkichi most probably improved, but he's not on Zenkichi's to beat list and it'd take a heck of a lot for that to happen even if we assume Kanome was dark side all this time, Zenkichi batted an eyelid at Shiranui joining Kumagawa, Kumagawa of all people, the same dude who blinded him and who he was more than willing to sacrifice his life in order to kill just to save the world from Kumagawa.
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Old 2012-05-01, 02:54   Link #8459
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
It's not the fact that the enforcer arc had some battle shounen elements Medaka box ALWAYS had that, it's the arc the succeeded it that was the real genre shift.
IIRC it only moved out of the bottom of the rankings when Kumagawa was introduced.
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Old 2012-05-01, 04:39   Link #8460
Tenchi Hou Take
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IIRC it only moved out of the bottom of the rankings when Kumagawa was introduced.
That's not really the point... plenty of developers change shit with varying degree's of success due to poor ratings. It clearly sold just enough in volume sales during the flask plan arc in order to even survive that long.
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