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Old 2012-05-10, 22:51   Link #8921
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by [HearT] View Post
hmm...is it just me or is devil style now ineffective? Zenkichi was able to dodge the blade by the 'width of a hair', and also miss Ruki ended up being the 'weakest' of the suitors... so either zenkichi can turn off its effect, or he somehow got rid of it~

I prefer zenkichi's hair black♥
Well, firstly your quoting is sorta wrong. It wasn't 'by the width of a hair', he dodged the attack from 'a hair's breath away', there is a difference. Secondly, Devil Style destroys fate, it dosen't mean that random chance is destroyed.

Thirdly, it's obviously still active given that Zenkichi is the weakest member of the Council. If Devil Style didn't eliminate all the privileges of being the main character, that wouldn't be the case.

Also, this was a bizarre chapter. It wasn't bad but I feel like I was trolled on several points.
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Old 2012-05-10, 23:28   Link #8922
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After reading 145, I'm convinced that everything has gone exactly the way that Ajimu intended. I now feel extremely suspicious of what happened when Medaka pulled a heel face turn on Ajimu. Zenkichi has actually turned into a main character. I thought that was just a pretense to distract us from the conflict between Ajimu and Medaka in that arc, and Ajimu was using her abilities to temporarily make Zenkichi the main character in the same way that Ajimu temporarily allowed Kumogawa to win. Zenkichi in the current arc isn't just the underdog or someone you side with because you're raging at another character being a complete asshat.

Zenkichi has overcome what I felt was the biggest difficulty in his character. He was too normal, 'average', that he really didn't matter all that much. What is the relevance of a mortal in a world filled to the brim with gods, especially if the mortal isn't gifted with the coincidence/fate of being significant somehow like being destined to become a hero? I thought Zenkichi just simply didn't have the capability to compete with the ridiculous powerhouses that this manga is strewn with. He rarely did anything surprising or outrageous and mostly just reacted. He's definitely not the same Zenkichi he was beforehand.

I had a suspicion for a while that 'Devil Style' was going to be the final nail in the coffin of Zenkichi's character. Even other shounen main characters who have 'anti-abnormal' abilities still rely on coincidence heavily to succeed, even more so since coincidence was the only way for them to succeed against opponents that were always stronger than them. I thought that perhaps Devil Style would just keep Zenkichi out of the wierd and outrageous world that Medaka's abnormality (fate) creates, and essentially turn him into an afterthought that you hear about occassionally in the background. I had thought that maybe Devil Style had a hand in why Zenkichi simply didn't appear for most of the previous arc, despite him playing a critical role. That isn't the case at all. Zenkichi using his own version of altered god mode just raised a bunch of exclamation and question marks over my head. There is no question about it; Zenkichi having or even being capable of developing that ability at all is extremely surprising.

Moreover, I thought he was only going to get a moral victory in this fight at best. He actually defeated a 'godly' level character. He's still going with the whole weak and normal motif with all his talk about him being the weakest, but he did just defeat a character that could slice a battleship in half. What?

Something unusual is going on here, and it doesn't just have to do with the 'jet black wedding'.
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Old 2012-05-10, 23:42   Link #8923
[HearT]
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Anyway, the big thing which caught my attention: Kumagawa's gonna be on the cover of the next issue of Jump Next! Is there gonna be another oneshot or something? Somebody with better Japanese than me should confirm.
It's not the cover of Jump Next, that's just an alternate cover for volume 15 that's included if you buy Jump Next, there's also an alternate cover for Kuroko no Basuke included.
Tho there is a pic of Medaka on the cover of Jump Next

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Well, firstly your quoting is sorta wrong. It wasn't 'by the width of a hair', he dodged the attack from 'a hair's breath away',
I don't care.
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Old 2012-05-10, 23:48   Link #8924
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Originally Posted by sungreentakeo View Post
I had a suspicion for a while that 'Devil Style' was going to be the final nail in the coffin of Zenkichi's character. Even other shounen main characters who have 'anti-abnormal' abilities still rely on coincidence heavily to succeed, even more so since coincidence was the only way for them to succeed against opponents that were always stronger than them.
Devil Style was never anti-abnormal though. It just stops random coincidences and all those other kind of cliche events like powering up in a desperate situation etc from happening. I mean it's more like an anti-Medaka or in the terms of the manga anti-main character ability since it stops the shounen cliches that would always favor the MC to win.

Also crack theory, the main reason that Medaka and the rest of the gang lost? Because they are now side characters since Zen is the main, and side characters exist to be rescued by main characters.
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Old 2012-05-10, 23:58   Link #8925
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by sungreentakeo View Post
After reading 145, I'm convinced that everything has gone exactly the way that Ajimu intended. I now feel extremely suspicious of what happened when Medaka pulled a heel face turn on Ajimu. Zenkichi has actually turned into a main character. I thought that was just a pretense to distract us from the conflict between Ajimu and Medaka in that arc, and Ajimu was using her abilities to temporarily make Zenkichi the main character in the same way that Ajimu temporarily allowed Kumogawa to win. Zenkichi in the current arc isn't just the underdog or someone you side with because you're raging at another character being a complete asshat.

Zenkichi has overcome what I felt was the biggest difficulty in his character. He was too normal, 'average', that he really didn't matter all that much. What is the relevance of a mortal in a world filled to the brim with gods, especially if the mortal isn't gifted with the coincidence/fate of being significant somehow like being destined to become a hero? I thought Zenkichi just simply didn't have the capability to compete with the ridiculous powerhouses that this manga is strewn with. He rarely did anything surprising or outrageous and mostly just reacted. He's definitely not the same Zenkichi he was beforehand.

I had a suspicion for a while that 'Devil Style' was going to be the final nail in the coffin of Zenkichi's character. Even other shounen main characters who have 'anti-abnormal' abilities still rely on coincidence heavily to succeed, even more so since coincidence was the only way for them to succeed against opponents that were always stronger than them. I thought that perhaps Devil Style would just keep Zenkichi out of the wierd and outrageous world that Medaka's abnormality (fate) creates, and essentially turn him into an afterthought that you hear about occassionally in the background. I had thought that maybe Devil Style had a hand in why Zenkichi simply didn't appear for most of the previous arc, despite him playing a critical role. That isn't the case at all. Zenkichi using his own version of altered god mode just raised a bunch of exclamation and question marks over my head. There is no question about it; Zenkichi having or even being capable of developing that ability at all is extremely surprising.

Moreover, I thought he was only going to get a moral victory in this fight at best. He actually defeated a 'godly' level character. He's still going with the whole weak and normal motif with all his talk about him being the weakest, but he did just defeat a character that could slice a battleship in half. What?

Something unusual is going on here, and it doesn't just have to do with the 'jet black wedding'.
Kinda this. I mean, I feel like the author is hiding something, I feel trolled. And he totally trolled me to shit with those glasses. He knew people would jump to conclusions regarding Parasite Seeing when they saw those.
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Old 2012-05-11, 00:03   Link #8926
sungreentakeo
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Originally Posted by Xacual View Post
Devil Style was never anti-abnormal though. It just stops random coincidences and all those other kind of cliche events like powering up in a desperate situation etc from happening. I mean it's more like an anti-Medaka or in the terms of the manga anti-main character ability since it stops the shounen cliches that would always favor the MC to win.
Everything you've said is true except I disagree on one point; abnormalities change fate and coincidence. It's like with the dice rolling test for abnormals; abnormalities influence what would be normally random chance. Ironically, Devil Style is the same thing, except it seems like it is supposed to set everyone's chances back to their normal state if they relate to Zenkichi somehow. That's how I see it as 'anti-abnormal'.


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Also crack theory, the main reason that Medaka and the rest of the gang lost? Because they are now side characters since Zen is the main, and side characters exist to be rescued by main characters.
Basically, but that isn't really the interesting part to me. Main and side characters have to satisfy certain requirements. Not just anyone can become the 'main character', and not just anyone can consistently fulfill those requirements to remain the 'main character'. Sure, yeah, you can say that he won because he's the main character, but he has to have the ability or potential to win in order to be the main character in the first place... In the same way that Medaka's 'The End' would by definition give ample justification to her winning against anyone.

I actually find it hard to figure out how exactly I could justify Medaka losing. A 'side character' that gets saved has to have some justifiable reason to lose. So, Medaka has a hard time fitting into that role of side character. It's really difficult to justify that someone who has the ultimate ability and ultimate power of coincidence would lose. We all know that Ajimu fits into this category just as well. I'm really curious about this. Medaka turning damsel in distress and Zenkichi taking out a human who minces battleships has got me a bit confused. I think it'll take a while to shake off the reality vertigo.

Last edited by sungreentakeo; 2012-05-11 at 00:18.
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Old 2012-05-11, 00:07   Link #8927
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It's because Zenkichi is the main character...yet he disposed of all the merits of being a main character because of Devil Style.
He did such because he wanted him beating Medaka to be a reality constructed by him, and not another whim of fate.
So, if Zenkichi absolutely does not have the ability to defeat an opponent, he really is going to die. Given that fate can't help him what-so-ever.
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Old 2012-05-11, 00:50   Link #8928
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Just read the chapter...am I the only one a little underwhelmed by Zen's victory? So basically, Ruki girl disabled both his arms and legs, and let her guard down because of that. Zen then snuck up on her, attacked her from behind by biting her neck. Because it hurts, and because Ruki girl did not want to have a scar, she just decided to give up. Guess because it's Zen, I was expecting something a little more...heroic? Or at least more conclusive. At the moment, almost feels like he only "won" because sword girl did not take him seriously, and because she did not even want to bother in the end. Add to that the fact that sword girl already got stomped by the jokers...the whole thing just feels somehow unsatisfying.

Oh well, with Zen's fight over, I assume we'll be back to the main attraction (for me anyway) next week. Looks like Medaka is competing in some kind of...endurance contest? I look forward to seeing what that's all about. So I guess this is how the rest of the arc is going to go? The jokers compete in a contest then move on to the next location. Zen's group catches up, face the beaten suitor, get the message: "Sorry Zen, but princess Medaka is in the next castle" and then hurry to catch up again? Hmm...seems kind of pointless for Zen's group to even be there if that's the case though. In the first place, isn't the Black Wedding about Medaka fighting for her own freedom? I can only hope that Zen's group will serve some purpose other than filler (or fan service I guess, depending on your tastes). As long as Medaka of all people does not actually end up a "damsel in distress" needing to be saved by her "big strong Zenkichi" , I'm fine with any development. We'll see how it goes.
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Old 2012-05-11, 01:16   Link #8929
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Thirdly, it's obviously still active given that Zenkichi is the weakest member of the Council. If Devil Style didn't eliminate all the privileges of being the main character, that wouldn't be the case.
I don't really think he's being at all serious when he refers to himself as 'the weakest' in the council. Similar to how Medaka used to say that she can't do anything without friends, or how Kumagawa calls himself the weakest person in the world.
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Old 2012-05-11, 01:16   Link #8930
Tenchi Hou Take
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Just read the chapter...am I the only one a little underwhelmed by Zen's victory? So basically, Ruki girl disabled both his arms and legs, and let her guard down because of that. Zen then snuck up on her, attacked her from behind by biting her neck. Because it hurts, and because Ruki girl did not want to have a scar, she just decided to give up. Guess because it's Zen, I was expecting something a little more...heroic? Or at least more conclusive. At the moment, almost feels like he only "won" because sword girl did not take him seriously, and because she did not even want to bother in the end. Add to that the fact that sword girl already got stomped by the jokers...the whole thing just feels somehow unsatisfying.

Oh well, with Zen's fight over, I assume we'll be back to the main attraction (for me anyway) next week. Looks like Medaka is competing in some kind of...endurance contest? I look forward to seeing what that's all about. So I guess this is how the rest of the arc is going to go? The jokers compete in a contest then move on to the next location. Zen's group catches up, face the beaten suitor, get the message: "Sorry Zen, but princess Medaka is in the next castle" and then hurry to catch up again? Hmm...seems kind of pointless for Zen's group to even be there if that's the case though. In the first place, isn't the Black Wedding about Medaka fighting for her own freedom? I can only hope that Zen's group will serve some purpose other than filler (or fan service I guess, depending on your tastes). As long as Medaka of all people does not actually end up a "damsel in distress" needing to be saved by her "big strong Zenkichi" , I'm fine with any development. We'll see how it goes.
Biting someone on the neck is a fatal attack if you bite deep enough, these important arteries that are more exposed there, meaning if he kept at it she would have died.
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Old 2012-05-11, 01:44   Link #8931
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Biting someone on the neck is a fatal attack if you bite deep enough, these important arteries that are more exposed there, meaning if he kept at it she would have died.
Eh, if we're going down the route of could haves, would haves and maybes, it's just as easy to say that besides the ability to bite, he was basically disabled at that point, Ruki girl could have just chopped off his head and pried his jaws off of her before it ever got to the point of being fatal. Doubtless you'd be able to come up with some way he would have countered that, and on it goes. What we actually have is that he jumped her from behind, bit her, and she immediately gave up saying "Don't bite too hard, it'll leave a scar." After the cool speech, the mode change and most importantly, the display of tactics and team work from last chapter, I guess I was expecting more. Oh well, the fight's over. He won. Let's just leave it at that.
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Old 2012-05-11, 01:59   Link #8932
Tenchi Hou Take
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Eh, if we're going down the route of could haves, would haves and maybes, it's just as easy to say that besides the ability to bite, he was basically disabled at that point, Ruki girl could have just chopped off his head and pried his jaws off of her before it ever got to the point of being fatal. Doubtless you'd be able to come up with some way he would have countered that, and on it goes. What we actually have is that he jumped her from behind, bit her, and she immediately gave up saying "Don't bite too hard, it'll leave a scar." After the cool speech, the mode change and most importantly, the display of tactics and team work from last chapter, I guess I was expecting more. Oh well, the fight's over. He won. Let's just leave it at that.
Techinically he did catch her at a blind spot, she couldn't attack backwards because the human body doesn't work that way and she was loosing a lot of blood through the kneck as shown by the massive blood spurt. She would have died (ignoring normal shounen crap) had he continued so she was actually better off telling him to stop and hoping he would than fighting him off. This is even ignoring the fact the dude was surrounded by allies that would have fucked her over anyway.

She was screwed either way so her giving up was logical, it was either death, or a chance of life through mercy.
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Old 2012-05-11, 02:31   Link #8933
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I think you're reaching too hard Tenchi. He was biting her. To keep biting her, he'll have to keep his head in stationary position over her right shoulder. The human body is very much capable of thrusting a sword at a stationary point over their right shoulder, thank you very much. Had ruki girl done that, he would have had to either let go and dodge. Or die. And if you're bringing his allies into this, she was already f&$%ed up at the start of the fight, and facing superior numbers. By that logic, the fight itself should not have even taken place. She should have given up then and there, and it'll be considered a victory for Zenkichi's entire group.

Hmmm...come to think of it, the fight was already over at that point. Zenkichi's group won with teamwork. Zen's personal scuffle was about as necessary as the existence of the entire Naked Apron Alliance alliance in the previous arc. I guess this means that Kumagawa's fans will get their fan service and Zenkichi's fans will get theirs? Under that light, the distribution has been rather disproportionate so far. I should just shut up now and let you guys get back to enjoying your fan service, such as it is. My apologies if I had inadvertently thrown a damper on your mood. Still think Nisiosin could have given you guys better fan service though.
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Old 2012-05-11, 02:45   Link #8934
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I think you're reaching too hard Tenchi. He was biting her. To keep biting her, he'll have to keep his head in stationary position over her right shoulder. The human body is very much capable of thrusting a sword at a stationary point over their right shoulder, thank you very much. Had ruki girl done that, he would have had to either let go and dodge. Or die. And if you're bringing his allies into this, she was already f&$%ed up at the start of the fight, and facing superior numbers. By that logic, the fight itself should not have even taken place. She should have given up then and there, and it'll be considered a victory for Zenkichi's entire group.

Hmmm...come to think of it, the fight was already over at that point. Zenkichi's group won with teamwork. Zen's personal scuffle was about as necessary as the existence of the entire Naked Apron Alliance alliance in the previous arc. I guess this means that Kumagawa's fans will get their fan service and Zenkichi's fans will get theirs? Under that light, the distribution has been rather disproportionate so far. I should just shut up now and let you guys get back to enjoying your fan service, such as it is. My apologies if I had inadvertently thrown a damper on your mood. Still think Nisiosin could have given you guys better fan service though.
Zenkichi already stated the reason for the fight, it was because he was president and she named him, so he wasn't going to fight with superior numbers. He knew it was a predtermined win.

Again your forgeting that she couldn't actually do that with the hand that was holding the sword, that was phsyically impossible, it would require her changing the swords hands and likely using the hand she was likely not used to wielding and then strike him. Zenkichi could easily see this and by the time she pulled it off the blood loss would kill her anyway and Zenkichi could just dodge back.

That's why it was a blind spot and their wasn't much she could do since he specifically went for that side of the neck. It was awkward enough a place to attack to that crap and the shock from the blood loss wouldn't make her think straight. Zen could easily aim for a fatal area and get out, it wasn't easy for her to aim for Zen's fatal area.
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Old 2012-05-11, 03:13   Link #8935
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Zenkichi already stated the reason for the fight, it was because he was president and she named him, so he wasn't going to fight with superior numbers. He knew it was a predtermined win.

Again your forgeting that she couldn't actually do that with the hand that was holding the sword, that was phsyically impossible, it would require her changing the swords hands and likely using the hand she was likely not used to wielding and then strike him. Zenkichi could easily see this and by the time she pulled it off the blood loss would kill her anyway and Zenkichi could just dodge back.

That's why it was a blind spot and their wasn't much she could do since he specifically went for that side of the neck. It was awkward enough a place to attack to that crap and the shock from the blood loss wouldn't make her think straight. Zen could easily aim for a fatal area and get out, it wasn't easy for her to aim for Zen's fatal area.
Clearly, I'm not going to convince you that it was very much possible any more than you're going to convince me it was impossible. Like I said from the very start, once you get into the realm of could haves and maybes... And since I already said I will shut up now and let you guys enjoy your fan service, I will. Still, it's been...entertaining to hear your ardent defense of your beloved Zenkichi. Thanks, Tenchi.
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Old 2012-05-11, 04:02   Link #8936
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Isn't that the point? He claims he's the weakest one there, so his battle ended up being a scrappy one. It just seemed like she didn't like feeling pain or was sensitive to it or something because she was being hurt by dulls swords, which she can feel as opposed to sharp ones which she cannot. She also said she was the weakest one, I had my suspiscions since Torai was able to sneak up on her so easily last time as well. She's just no good.
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Old 2012-05-11, 04:55   Link #8937
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New chapter out...in the process of reading it, first I've been poring over the information page ("Media Box" lol).

Not that much new stuff, first just some novel summary information...Medaka's speech bubble confirms that Kuguhara-sensei (the male on the right) is/was? her homeroom teacher for first year. Incidentally regarding that: a little while back when I was browsing through the Minus arc recently I came across the section where Kumagawa/Class -13 took over the second year Class 13 classroom. The reason it was available (as Shiranui informed them) was because none of the second year Class 13 students come to school...however, as for first year Class 13 and third year Class 13, the sole students who did come in each of those years were Medaka and Hinokage respectively. Point being: Medaka has always been in Class 13, but she (used to be?) the only one who came to class. If Kuguhara Messhi was her homeroom teacher, then, they must have had some really interesting conversations.

Anyway, the big thing which caught my attention: Kumagawa's gonna be on the cover of the next issue of Jump Next! Is there gonna be another oneshot or something? Somebody with better Japanese than me should confirm.
Great chapter but what do Kumagawa and the others ?
I could give more information when I have received my book novel in a few days
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Old 2012-05-11, 05:50   Link #8938
Sol Falling
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Great chapter but what do Kumagawa and the others ?
I could give more information when I have received my book novel in a few days
That'd be AWESOME if you could really do that. I'll be looking forward to it, thanks.
Yeah, I'm really curious as to what's going on with everyone else aside from Medaka too. I still hesitate to believe that they're really in trouble even with Medaka chained up like that. It seems like the Suitors have started up another series of 6 challenges again, and not only that, but they're still only at "stage two". If that's the case, then perhaps we might actually get to see some Kumagawa/Hanten/Tsurubami/Shiranui battles later.
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Old 2012-05-11, 07:53   Link #8939
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Naze's spit-take made the chapter for me. And...she gave up because she didn't want the bite to leave a mark? Didn't feel like just stabbing him in the face? That's pretty funny.

Wait...can Zenkichi turn his devil style off or something? Winning from that bite seems a little too convenient.
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Old 2012-05-11, 08:07   Link #8940
Randrak42
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This was me last week: "Oh look, Zen's gonna fight...wonder how fucked up he'll be by the end of it."
And this week: "Yeeeeeep...all cut up..."

Anyway, really enjoyed this chapter.
Zenkichi actually looks good with black hair (still prefer his usual colour but this is good too)
Zenkichi developing Alter God mode...interesting. Most interesting was (as we knew already from the spoilers) that Shiranui's Big Eater had a hand in it. Since we don't know what BE can actually do, we can assume that she either traded Parasite Seeing for Alter God Mode or actually helped developing it from scratch. Considering the other Shiranui is capable of actually creating skills it can go either way.
I find it funny how Zenkichi keeps saying he's the weakest, yet it was stated a couple of times that he'd be the only person capable of matching Medaka in a physical fight xD

As for our lovely Crazy Undead Sword Dere Girl...or CUSDG...I REALLY love her now.
Her sword style is actually pretty original and cool "What only two hands!? Screw it *stab*" makes perfect sense!!!
Her Deredere mode...I was expecting her to say the "Stop or it'll leave a scar" because of Zenkichi's wounds as some spoilers pointed to...but it was still lovely to see her Deredere face!
It saddnes me that she's not only the weakest but was previously defeated by the Jokers...though it considering the rules and how she was perfectly fine, it might not have been in a fight.

What else...
Loved Naze's face after CUSDG's dere moment.
I really liked that little MedakaxZen flashback, gave me a smile.
However...my ZenxHarem support seems to be growing stronger every day.

Overall...loved the chapter (though I did ruin it a bit with my hunger for spoilers...oh well)
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