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Old 2012-05-12, 13:14   Link #8981
Wolfenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupus753 View Post
. . . . . Really?

Is there a universal convention or law that says the main character has to be the most powerful. News to me, actually. I can actually think of at least one work where the main character is, indeed, the weakest of his team. Unless I misunderstood your post.
You did. You're not thinking of the main character in the context of Medaka Box.

Refer to the Medaka before Devil Style, and the invincible beast she was, fate made her the strongest being around. Now refer to the chapter in which Ajimu describes Devil Style, and how Zenkichi disposed of all the benefits of being a MC by nulling fate.

He is the main character, but without fate, he dosen't get any of the strenght.
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Old 2012-05-12, 13:20   Link #8982
Tenchi Hou Take
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TBF battle shounen MC are either the strongest in their group or the weakest with crazy potential rarely is their a middle ground if the manga actually focuses on their fights.

This is ignoring harem crap where the male lead doesn't really fight, or his fighting is barely focused on.

If the shounen actually focuses on them fighting and their comparitively weak they usually have a gimmick which usually encompasses their crazy potential e.g touma's imagine breaker etc.
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Old 2012-05-12, 13:24   Link #8983
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Originally Posted by novalysis View Post
Zenkichi being the weakest and the MC is probably a snide comment to the rest of the Shounens out there, where the leader is the most powerful character of all. It seems that Nisio's point is that power does not necessarily equate to leadership, or at least provide good leadership.

I'd imagine that Zenkichi is a commentary by the author on what he considers a good leader: a multiplier, a person who brings out the best in his or her team. Which Medaka incidentally, isn't as skilled in doing that as Zenkichi, by her very nature . Just look at how she alienates anime only viewers- and considering that Nisio deliberately made her both hyper-competent and annoyingly "perfect"... (and deconstructed that to Kingdom come in the Flask Plan arc)....
It's possible. Or he might be telling the truth on both the accounts of Torai being stronger than him, along with the rest of the SC.

Zenkichi just has 'normal' levels of ability, after all. He's considered a Zero(which is neither an Abnormal nor a Minus) because of his mentality, a mentality portrayed by Devil Style. Which means that removing Devil Style would make no sense from a narrative point of view, it would eliminate all the develoment from the previous arc.
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Old 2012-05-12, 13:26   Link #8984
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Old 2012-05-12, 15:00   Link #8985
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@ novalysis

I agree.
Nisio will not do the typical shounens.
Zenkichi popular hero (MC) as result readers of the polls. Therefore it will do exactly as he is.
We already have the most is the most most most powerful hero - Medaka.
Second this is not needed.

It behaves like a team leader. In contrast to the "super ideal" Medaka.
This is done correctly. Why do we need a copy of Medaka.
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Old 2012-05-12, 21:44   Link #8986
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We don't but in the shonen genre, it is almost typical of the main character to one shot enemies using only their index finger.
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Old 2012-05-12, 21:50   Link #8987
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
We don't but in the shonen genre, it is almost typical of the main character to one shot enemies using only their index finger.
Fodder, yes.
Actual boss type villains, lolno.

If you are a no-named or just very low ranking bad guy then you can be sure you'll just have the purpose of making the MC look cool. But if you are a named boss type character then (unless the MC is an OP God ala Alucard) then there's usually a though fight.
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Old 2012-05-12, 22:51   Link #8988
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
TBF battle shounen MC are either the strongest in their group or the weakest with crazy potential rarely is their a middle ground if the manga actually focuses on their fights.

This is ignoring harem crap where the male lead doesn't really fight, or his fighting is barely focused on.

If the shounen actually focuses on them fighting and their comparitively weak they usually have a gimmick which usually encompasses their crazy potential e.g touma's imagine breaker etc.
Sometimes there's a middle ground though right(if there's a Big Good in the group). There are times when the MC or the Hero has someone that's still stronger than them despite how much they've improved (i.e. Erza for Natsu)

Ah I was thinking Touma as well...what do you think of him? He reminds of Zenkichi in some ways(or is it the other way around, don't know which series I started first), but Touma really doesn't change, even with his memory loss, which is a shame.
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Old 2012-05-13, 00:54   Link #8989
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I wonder if I should read that series some time before I die. This "Accelerator" guy sounds interesting, to say the least.

From what I've heard, that series has ludicrously overpowered villains so that only Touma, with his simple power-null arm, can possibly beat them. I wonder if Isin will do something similar here. Though, catering villains to his ability would range from ironic to logically impossible, so maybe not.
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Old 2012-05-13, 02:42   Link #8990
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Originally Posted by Lupus753 View Post
I wonder if I should read that series some time before I die. This "Accelerator" guy sounds interesting, to say the least.

From what I've heard, that series has ludicrously overpowered villains so that only Touma, with his simple power-null arm, can possibly beat them. I wonder if Isin will do something similar here. Though, catering villains to his ability would range from ironic to logically impossible, so maybe not.
Not only that but most villains go down with ONE punch. And they just excuse it by claiming they're squishy wizards. Though I actually do like Touma, the author uses him as more of a plot device.
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Old 2012-05-13, 03:47   Link #8991
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I like that Zenkichi is still the nominally weakest member of the group even after becoming SC president. Even better, he seems to have come to terms with his weakness given how proudly he announces it.

He kind of reminds me of Batman: the token normal guy with no powers on a team of physical gods who gets by with a crazy amount of preparation, training, and fighting like a cheap bastard (i.e. the biting).
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Old 2012-05-13, 03:55   Link #8992
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
Not only that but most villains go down with ONE punch. And they just excuse it by claiming they're squishy wizards. Though I actually do like Touma, the author uses him as more of a plot device.
Imagine breaker is typically far too hax for what he's up against though it certainly has it's weakness'. Most anyone that's physically stronger than touuma can still beat him, though there's a surprisingly small amount. Natsu is a bad example, the dude simply bullshit nakama powers up and typically puts a jobber aura on his allies in a lot of his victories. While it's true he's not the strongest, (though probably does have the best potential though not to the point where it alone is enough to win fights), he probably deserves his wins less the most shounen protagonists.

Ironically Erza also does this though not to anywhere near the same degree as Natsu due to not being the main character.
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Old 2012-05-13, 05:49   Link #8993
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I have been following this series from the start but I have no idea how to explain to the newcomers about what is this series about.

Seriously, when was the last time we see someone put the request into Medaka's box? 100 chapters ago?
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Old 2012-05-13, 05:52   Link #8994
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Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
I have been following this series from the start but I have no idea how to explain to the newcomers about what is this series about.

Seriously, when was the last time we see someone put the request into Medaka's box? 100 chapters ago?
Well technically the suggestion box was used during the election so...

Anyway, I see your pain. I don't really know how the hell to pitch this damn thing either, just tell them to read the first 100 chapters, and if they don't like it, they can drop it.
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Old 2012-05-13, 06:04   Link #8995
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There are just 150+ chapters currently. But I didn't find the significant of Medaka's suggestion box since the Flask Plan arc. It became a whole new genre since Flask Plan... which was around 100 chapters ago.
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Old 2012-05-13, 06:19   Link #8996
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
There are just 150+ chapters currently. But I didn't find the significant of Medaka's suggestion box since the Flask Plan arc. It became a whole new genre since Flask Plan... which was around 100 chapters ago.
Your surprised by this? The suggestion box was a shitty plot device that was bound to be eventually ignored, in order to keep it going it forces the story into a monster of the week formula and a limited one at that (though granted the story is already like that).

It's the same reason why the slice of life crap at the begining was ditched, because as it is, it forces the story in a scenario that goes nowhere.
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Old 2012-05-13, 08:41   Link #8997
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kleeyook View Post
There are just 150+ chapters currently. But I didn't find the significant of Medaka's suggestion box since the Flask Plan arc. It became a whole new genre since Flask Plan... which was around 100 chapters ago.
It was referenced to, but was never really a focus. During the minus 13 arc, all the students flooded the box to get rid of them, and it seems to be in the background a lot, but it has some symbolism to it, which was given by Zenkichi during the election. So you can't really say it's completely useless. Well now it is because it's been abolished.
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Old 2012-05-13, 09:14   Link #8998
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by MD84 View Post
I like that Zenkichi is still the nominally weakest member of the group even after becoming SC president. Even better, he seems to have come to terms with his weakness given how proudly he announces it.

He kind of reminds me of Batman: the token normal guy with no powers on a team of physical gods who gets by with a crazy amount of preparation, training, and fighting like a cheap bastard (i.e. the biting).
True words.

Also, is no one else pissed at Nisio's trolling with the glasses? Just a normal pair of glasses? Wtf. Did he really lose Parasite Seeing so his vision is progressively getting worse? If so, what did Shiranui's Real Eater give him in return?

Or maybe he just has regular myopia or another eye-defect?

Freaking troll this author is.
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Old 2012-05-13, 11:24   Link #8999
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
True words.

Also, is no one else pissed at Nisio's trolling with the glasses? Just a normal pair of glasses? Wtf. Did he really lose Parasite Seeing so his vision is progressively getting worse? If so, what did Shiranui's Real Eater give him in return?

Or maybe he just has regular myopia or another eye-defect?

Freaking troll this author is.
Kind of figured that one out already.

Emukae: Are those special glasses?

Zenikichi: Nope, the glasses are there to make me look cool.
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Old 2012-05-13, 13:06   Link #9000
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Or that. Though it's obvious the author knew some people would jump to conlusions on that issue.

I'm actually surprised he told us the glasses were normal so early.
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