AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2012-06-09, 02:44   Link #9281
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Addendum for stuff that was added while I was typing:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
But these things were the delusions of Najimi Ajimu, a quasi-deity older than the universe who became so convinced of the unreality of said universe due to her boredom with it. I would not take anything she has said seriously, not after 140, and neither should anyone.

Whether or not this serves to illustrate the manga's themes is irrelevant; the world of Medaka Box, in the world of Medaka Box, is (probably) not a manga.
The existence and absolute superiority of Ajimu Najimi's 14 quadrillion skills alone justifies the correctness/legitimacy of her view of the universe. Ajimu's defining trait is that she is a Not Equal, which means that she is aware of the fictional/artificial reality of her universe. Just because she was successfully prevented from going full emo/nihilist in killing herself does not mean that any of her perspective or beliefs are delusional. Rather, her character conclusion merely showed that she was willing to play along with the whims of Medaka (to become normal girls), who despite everything has been shown to be delusional numerous times throughout the manga herself.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Will you please stop giving me hope? I don't want them to be crushed in the end.
lol, well shit. I can't do that because in the end, I'm totally willing to let my hopes get crushed betting on this possibility. And the reason that's true is because, in the first place I genuinely believe it has a chance at happening. I can't help it if no one else will buy into it at the moment but I think there's something significant and clearly intentional about the fact that we have reached a point where Zenkichi x Emukae is obviously more popular than Zenkichi x Medaka, the supposed "main" pairing.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 02:45   Link #9282
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
It's not a delusion at all. Fate exists in Medaka Box, without a doubt. Or, well at least existed. With Devil Style around, It might as well not exist.
I don't believe for a second that, say, Unzen will stop rolling sixes all the time just because of an ability a character he has barely interacted with purportedly has.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Yes it exists. Fate has always had a measurable effect on Medaka Box. Ajimu isn't making anything up. That skill alone is what allowed Medaka to be brought down, when she could never lose in a conflict before, even when weaker than her opponent(Forbidden God Mode vs Zenkichi).
Medaka lost because the entire student body decided to free her from her burden, and I have been arguing that it was actually a victory for her in several senses.

I think you guys are putting way too much stock into things that a character explicitly outed as insane and deluded has said.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Which it has. Zenkichi is now the main character, but without all the benefits since he disposed of them, and manga conventions are all but non-existant.
Manga conventions are still very much around (exiting an aircraft going at the speed of sound would rip a human being into shreds) and Zenkichi has always been the main character. He just wasn't the Main Character, if you catch my drift.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Guys, the reason Zenkichi's Altered God Mode isn't an asspull is because it doesn't make him overpowered. It is not even a supernatural power aside from the concept that Zenkichi can use the full-potential of his body/abilities.
IT MAGICALLY TURNED HIS HAIR BLACK. Furthermore, it's an asspull because it came completely out of left field. Just because it had little real effect does not make it not an asspull.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Also that I am shipping Kumagawa x Medaka and Emukae x Zenkichi for real, as this manga's endgame pairings.
So help me god if Zenkichi doesn't end up with Medaka after all he's done to get her...
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 02:50   Link #9283
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Might as well double-post.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
The existence and absolute superiority of Ajimu Najimi's 14 quadrillion skills alone justifies the correctness/legitimacy of her view of the universe.
Why? The whole point of Medaka's speech to her was that it doesn't.

We also haven't actually ever been told, directly, what a Not Equal is, I think I should mention. Shori and Aka certainly aren't deluded people and yet they still count as Not Equals.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Zenkichi x Emukae is obviously more popular than Zenkichi x Medaka, the supposed "main" pairing.
I hate Medaka, but her and Zenkichi are an excellent pairing. Also, he deserves her and will never look at Emukae as a romantic interest besides. He's not a horny loon like, oh, Araragi.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 02:57   Link #9284
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I don't believe for a second that, say, Unzen will stop rolling sixes all the time just because of an ability a character he has barely interacted with purportedly has.
He will. Depending on the range that Devil Style works on. You can bet on that. That's what the manga has shown us.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Medaka lost because the entire student body decided to free her from her burden, and I have been arguing that it was actually a victory for her in several senses.
Which never would have happened had Devil Style not been there. Had Devil Style not existed, all the students would've thought Medaka's chan ideology was correct.

Re-read the chapter more throughly.

A reference to the Main-character charisma aided by fate
Spoiler:

Can't be changed by fate's fickle hand
Spoiler:

Intead of by luck or some miracle, I want to beat Medaka-Chan fair and square
Spoiler:


Devil Style caused her downfall because she was no longer unbeatable. Hence, on this even ground created by Devil Style, Zenkichi was able to defeat Medaka, while maintaining the feeling that was a reality done by him, and not fate/destiny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Manga conventions are still very much around (exiting an aircraft going at the speed of sound would rip a human being into shreds) and Zenkichi has always been the main character. He just wasn't the Main Character, if you catch my drift.
He was and he wasn't, but only in Nisio's mind and planning, not in the manga's metaworld. And that's not a manga convention. That's a trait of Medaka Box's worlds. The humans there are abhorrently more powerful. Heck, There is a Kanji Style and Munakata can hide an arsenal in his school uniform.

Now you're just asking for this manga to stop being a manga.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol
lol, well shit. I can't do that because in the end, I'm totally willing to let my hopes get crushed betting on this possibility. And the reason that's true is because, in the first place I genuinely believe it has a chance at happening. I can't help it if no one else will buy into it at the moment but I think there's something significant and clearly intentional about the fact that we have reached a point where Zenkichi x Emukae is obviously more popular than Zenkichi x Medaka, the supposed "main" pairing.
Well, that's a solid point. I guess you're just stronger and more optimistic than me, and I can admire that.

But he smelled Medaka. And the whole confession...shit's rought for me, man.
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 03:07   Link #9285
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
That's what the manga has shown us.
You're extrapolating like mad here. The manga has only directly shown us two instances of Devil Style's (purported) effects, and both of them had only to do with events that would have run counter to Zenkichi's personal goals.

If it had come up again in another instance (which it has not, yet, which is what I've been getting at from the beginning) we might be able to learn more about it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Which never would have happened had Devil Style not been there. Had Devil Style not existed, all the students would've thought Medaka's chan ideology was correct.
No, I don't think so. The point was made several times over the course of the manga that the actual voter turnout during Medaka's first election was relatively low, and that many of the people who voted for Medaka only did so because Zenkichi was helping her.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
And that's not a manga convention. That's a trait of Medaka Box's worlds. The humans there are abhorrently more powerful. Heck, There is a Kanji Style and Munakata can hide an arsenal in his school uniform.

Now you're just asking for this manga to stop being a manga.
I don't think any genre conventions are being subverted except for the fact that we have a main character who isn't Goku, something that I don't find exactly unprecedented as Zenkichi has, like I said, been the real main character all along.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 03:20   Link #9286
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
You're extrapolating like mad here. The manga has only directly shown us two instances of Devil Style's (purported) effects, and both of them had only to do with events that would have run counter to Zenkichi's personal goals.

If it had come up again in another instance (which it has not, yet, which is what I've been getting at from the beginning) we might be able to learn more about it.
How am I extrapolating when I'm saying exactly what It does? Unzen rolling sixes is nothing more nothing less than a whim of fate/destiny/luck. Do not forget how Anshin'-san labeled events that would no longer be certain to happen or uncertain to happen because of Devil Style. Saving yourself from death was one of them.

If Devil Style simply stopped events where Zenkichi would be harmed or opposed, the whole purpose of the skill was moot from the begunning, and Zenkichi will just win all the time, and never be wrong. He'll, again, become what he destroyed. Clearly not what the manga shows and intended.

Naturally, in the same room as Zenkichi, Devil Styl prevents the whims of fate of interferring. Even other people such as the musicians of the music festival were affected by it. And instead of there definitely appearing a conflicting personality, those three just happened to be hired out of chance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
No, I don't think so. The point was made several times over the course of the manga that the actual voter turnout during Medaka's first election was relatively low, and that many of the people who voted for Medaka only did so because Zenkichi was helping her.
Many? No, 'some'. And the point that was extrapolated far more was Medaka's incredibly impossible accomplishments and the fact she could never lose.

Which is why Shiranui said that even with all those factors against her, she'd still win the 98% majority.

This scan exists to exactly illustrate how fate would've worked in favor of Medaka:

The more reasonable their speeches sounded, the more eloquent they made Medaka's.
Spoiler:


And this:

Even though nobody could defeat Medaka, I did?
Spoiler:


I mean geez. This is the whole reason Anshin'-san labeled Devil-Style as a skill Zenkichi would use to defeat Medaka. The whole reason why It's Kanji is 'The right to do what is wrong'.

The whole reason that Ajimu considered Medaka losing an impossibility was because she could never lose due to being favored by fate. That's the only reason Anshin' Couldn't defeat Medaka, as well.

I mean, there's not much more to say. Devil Style was the cause for Medaka's defeat in the battle. If Devil Style didn't exist, none of the factors mentioned by Anshin'San to Shiranui would even make the slightest difference. Hence why Ajimu was so confident Zen could win, since she just heard about his Devil Style.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I don't think any genre conventions are being subverted except for the fact that we have a main character who isn't Goku, something that I don't find exactly unprecedented as Zenkichi has, like I said, been the real main character all along.
I already explicited exactly what ones are. And Zenkichi was only the main character in Nishio's mind for all time, never in the actual manga and in the metaworld of the manga where they openly talk about the concept of 'main chanracter', until Devil Style came in. There'd a huge difference.
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 03:29   Link #9287
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
IT MAGICALLY TURNED HIS HAIR BLACK. Furthermore, it's an asspull because it came completely out of left field. Just because it had little real effect does not make it not an asspull.
It was explicitly stated that Shiranui's Real Eater was part of Zenkichi's Altered God Mode training. If you remember how Hinokage looked after his Real Eater powerup, the black hair connection is pretty obvious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Why? The whole point of Medaka's speech to her was that it doesn't.

We also haven't actually ever been told, directly, what a Not Equal is, I think I should mention. Shori and Aka certainly aren't deluded people and yet they still count as Not Equals.
Aka and Shori are "parts" of Ajimu. They are only Not Equals in that sense, which is clearly different from how Ajimu and Hanten are "Not Equals" (it's stated a number of times in the manga that Ajimu and Hanten are the only "true" Not Equals). In fact, during their early skirmish against Kumagawa it was explicitly mentioned that the SC successors are actually Normals in terms of ability; Aka for her part (based on her class assignment) is probably a Special.

The character who's actually been shown to be delusional (multiple times) in the series is Medaka. Making irrational/completely illogical assertions in the story is well-documented in her behaviour. In the first place, remember Medaka's "Pretentious appeal to humanity's innate goodness" behaviour? Not to mention "There are no such things as geniuses", "I'm not special", and her refusal to even dodge attacks people (Unzen, Unzen's sister) threw at her because "There's no reason for me to be attacked by you". Medaka describing all of Ajimu's perceptions as "Simulated Reality" complex was just another example of her forcing her delusions onto other people. The reason none of the other characters believed Ajimu is precisely because they're just manga characters, and that accepting such a possibility about their reality would seem crazy to them. Ajimu's unique knowledge of Medaka Box as a fictional reality is exactly the defining characteristic which sets her apart as a Not Equal.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 03:41   Link #9288
Kaisos Erranon
Homo Ludens
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Canada
Age: 24
Yeah, again, I'm pretty convinced that Ajimu is, in fact, intended to be seen as a delusional character. That's what made the resolution in 140 so clever to me, as while characters making metafictional jokes is very common in NisiOisiN's works, a character being called out as insane for their supposed awareness of the fourth wall... that's something quite different.

If she IS right about the world being a manga (in-universe, that is) then that makes Medaka's big realization, and all the foreshadowing leading up to that seem kind of pointless, doesn't it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
How am I extrapolating when I'm saying exactly what It does? Unzen rolling sixes is nothing more nothing less than a whim of fate/destiny/luck.
We don't actually know how much Devil Style can affect until we see it in explicit use again, and I find the fact that we haven't explicitly seen its use again extremely suspicious.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
I already explicited exactly what ones are.
What, ones that still continue to apply to Medaka, even now?

Whatever, guys, I don't think we're going to agree on this.
__________________
Kaisos Erranon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 04:02   Link #9289
Qilin
Romanticist
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Age: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Yeah, again, I'm pretty convinced that Ajimu is, in fact, intended to be seen as a delusional character. That's what made the resolution in 140 so clever to me, as while characters making metafictional jokes is very common in NisiOisiN's works, a character being called out as insane for their supposed awareness of the fourth wall... that's something quite different.

If she IS right about the world being a manga (in-universe, that is) then that makes Medaka's big realization, and all the foreshadowing leading up to that seem kind of pointless, doesn't it?
I was under the impression that it was Ajimu's meta-awareness was what elevated her character above everyone else. It was the pinnacle of her whole transcendent existence. The fact that she could see the world as it really was is what truly set her apart from everyone else for me. In the end, insanity is just a statistic. She was called "insane" and "delusional" not because she was wrong, but because nobody could see the world through her eyes.

I don't see how it would make anything pointless though. Suppose that the summation of all our thoughts and experiences were just figments within the imagination of some otherworldly being, would that make them any less real? Objective reality itself is irrelevant compared to the subjective reality that is experienced by the individual.
__________________
Damaged Goods
"There’s an up higher than up, but at the very top, down is all there is."
Qilin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 04:10   Link #9290
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
We don't actually know how much Devil Style can affect until we see it in explicit use again, and I find the fact that we haven't explicitly seen its use again extremely suspicious.
The only thing that can really be discussed is the actual range the ability works in.

It's a passive ability. Want to see it in work? Look at how Zenkichi is on a completely lower level to Nienami, how he couldn't snag an outright victory against her, how his power-up still made him far inferior to his opponent, or how he's the weakest in his team, or how Emukae is now fighting the strongest suitor.

Those are all instances of Devil Style at work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
What, ones that still continue to apply to Medaka, even now?
What are you talking about? No convention is being applied to the story, as far as we can see.

Medaka, for instance, previously would be able to defeat Ajimu in a confrontation, simply because she was the main character, and aided by fate could not ever lose in a conflict. Now, she openly says she has absolutely no chance in a battle against Ajimu.

Another effect of Devil Style, most likely.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilli
I was under the impression that it was Ajimu's meta-awareness was what elevated her character above everyone else. It was the pinnacle of her whole transcendent existence. The fact that she could see the world as it really was is what truly set her apart from everyone else for me. In the end, insanity is just a statistic. She was called "insane" and "delusional" not because she was wrong, but because nobody could see the world through her eyes.

I don't see how it would make anything pointless though. Suppose that the summation of all our thoughts and experiences were just figments within the imagination of some otherworldly being, would that make them any less real? Objective reality itself is irrelevant compared to the subjective reality that is experienced by the individual.
This actually makes alot of sense. If anything, anyone but Ajimu and Hanten are certifiably insane.
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 06:59   Link #9291
ziggi92
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
After reading posts about what is insane or sane in World of Medaka Box
We should look at what is "Normal" in the world of Medaka Box

why was Zenkichi consider "normal" since most of characters we seen are clearly not "normal in our world" like Medaka, Ajimu & all the Kurokami family plus most the other characters we seen even his mother is not "normal" so why was Zenkichi called "normal" in world where abnormal is so common should he not be technically "abnormal" since
people like him are minority as we have not seen many of them of who have any important role in manga other than the successors even the Majority of the their School Hakoniwa are special so why was person like Zenkichi called "normal"

This was taken by Medaka box Wiki what they stated as "normal":
link http://medakabox.wikia.com/wiki/Hakoniwa_Academy

Regular students who lack any special ability

But how come that they are called "Normal" since they are not even majority since the majority of Academy are called "Special"

Even Now Zenkichi is not "normal" but Zero which is something between normal and Abnormal.

By dictionary Normal is:
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2.serving to establish a standard.
3. Psychology:
a) approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b) free from any mental disorder; sane.


If take this definition of Dictionary an put in the world of Medaka box since average of Hakoniwa Academy are "special or Abnormal" then that means they should be consider Normal while Zenkichi would fall below average meaning (special or Abnormal) in Hakoniwa Academy so he should be Abnormal instead of Normal.

And another interesting part was what Qilli said:
So if we take what Qilli said about world:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qilli
I was under the impression that it was Ajimu's meta-awareness was what elevated her character above everyone else. It was the pinnacle of her whole transcendent existence. The fact that she could see the world as it really was is what truly set her apart from everyone else for me. In the end, insanity is just a statistic. She was called "insane" and "delusional" not because she was wrong, but because nobody could see the world through her eyes.

I don't see how it would make anything pointless though. Suppose that the summation of all our thoughts and experiences were just figments within the imagination of some otherworldly being, would that make them any less real? Objective reality itself is irrelevant compared to the subjective reality that is experienced by the individual.
So what this says is that Ajimu is NORMAL (sane) while others are ABNORMAL (insane) by definition of Dictionary which stats that of the meaning of Normal is being sane free from any mental disorder.

Which irony since she (Ajimu) is not even consider "Normal" but not equal.

This just shows how interesting the world of Medaka box is
ziggi92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 07:27   Link #9292
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggi92 View Post
After reading posts about what is insane or sane in World of Medaka Box
We should look at what is "Normal" in the world of Medaka Box

why was Zenkichi consider "normal" since most of characters we seen are clearly not "normal in our world" like Medaka, Ajimu & all the Kurokami family plus most the other characters we seen even his mother is not "normal" so why was Zenkichi called "normal" in world where abnormal is so common should he not be technically "abnormal" since
people like him are minority as we have not seen many of them of who have any important role in manga other than the successors even the Majority of the their School Hakoniwa are special so why was person like Zenkichi called "normal"

This was taken by Medaka box Wiki what they stated as "normal":
link http://medakabox.wikia.com/wiki/Hakoniwa_Academy

Regular students who lack any special ability

But how come that they are called "Normal" since they are not even majority since the majority of Academy are called "Special"

Even Now Zenkichi is not "normal" but Zero which is something between normal and Abnormal.

By dictionary Normal is:
1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural.
2.serving to establish a standard.
3. Psychology:
a) approximately average in any psychological trait, as intelligence, personality, or emotional adjustment.
b) free from any mental disorder; sane.


If take this definition of Dictionary an put in the world of Medaka box since average of Hakoniwa Academy are "special or Abnormal" then that means they should be consider Normal while Zenkichi would fall below average meaning (special or Abnormal) in Hakoniwa Academy so he should be Abnormal instead of Normal.

And another interesting part was what Qilli said:
So if we take what Qilli said about world:


So what this says is that Ajimu is NORMAL (sane) while others are ABNORMAL (insane) by definition of Dictionary which stats that of the meaning of Normal is being sane free from any mental disorder.

Which irony since she (Ajimu) is not even consider "Normal" but not equal.

This just shows how interesting the world of Medaka box is
Well, not exactly. In terms of the students at Hakoniwa Academy, about 65% are Normal (Classes 1-9, out of a total 14), about 21% are Special (Classes 10-12), about 7% are Abnormal (Class 13), and about 7% are Minus (Class Minus 13). So actually, in general terms, "Normal" students like Zenkichi are still the majority. Also, note that compared to the rest of the world Hakoniwa Academy's proportions are already highly skewed towards Special and Abnormal students, because they have been purposely gathered there for the sake of the Flask Plan.

Rather than calling Ajimu or the rest of Medaka Box's characters sane or insane, I think we have to first take into account the natural differences in their levels of perceptibility. Regardless of whether or not the Medaka Box world is just a manga, from the characters' point of view that reality is pointless unless they are actually aware of it. The subjective nature of reality tells us that, even if it is true that the world they are living in is a manga--for the majority of Medaka Box's characters, if that knowledge cannot actually change their perception of the world or alter how they live their lives and interact with it--it doesn't matter for them whether it is true or not. Given that most of the Medaka Box characters will never be able to tell that their lives are just a manga, it is perfectly "sane" for them not to act as if it were; because that is natural given their level of perception. On the other hand, given that we have literally seen, through Ajimu's eyes, how she can perceive the nature of her manga's reality (the comparison to office stationary and erasers when Zenkichi used Parasite Seeing on her; Ajimu's accurate knowledge of when she and Medaka were in colour pages; Ajimu's explicit statement that all of the characters were actually just ink drawings on paper), it is also perfectly natural ("sane") for her to act as if her reality is a manga. Rather, because Ajimu is able to see the things around her as what they are, manga drawings--it would be insane for her to act as if this weren't the case.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-06-09 at 11:30. Reason: typo
Sol Falling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 11:25   Link #9293
Guernsey
The GAP Man
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 26
Send a message via AIM to Guernsey Send a message via MSN to Guernsey Send a message via Yahoo to Guernsey
So Medaka Box is not a manga?
__________________
Guernsey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 11:34   Link #9294
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
So Medaka Box is not a manga?
No, Medaka Box is indeed a manga. However, only Ajimu (and Hanten) are able to see it that way, so it's not insane for the rest of the characters not to agree with them.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Kill la Kill 75/5 :: Sakura Trick 100/5 :: Saki Zenkoku-hen 100/5 :: HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Mushishi OVA 100/5
Spring:
Stardust Crusaders 100/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 20/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 15/5 :: Gochiusa 28/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 20/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Great shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 12:21   Link #9295
ziggi92
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Well, not exactly. In terms of the students at Hakoniwa Academy, about 65% are Normal (Classes 1-9, out of a total 14), about 21% are Special (Classes 10-12), about 7% are Abnormal (Class 13), and about 7% are Minus (Class Minus 13). So actually, in general terms, "Normal" students like Zenkichi are still the majority. Also, note that compared to the rest of the world Hakoniwa Academy's proportions are already highly skewed towards Special and Abnormal students, because they have been purposely gathered there for the sake of the Flask Plan.

Rather than calling Ajimu or the rest of Medaka Box's characters sane or insane, I think we have to first take into account the natural differences in their levels of perceptibility. Regardless of whether or not the Medaka Box world is just a manga, from the characters' point of view that reality is pointless unless they are actually aware of it. The subjective nature of reality tells us that, even if it is true that the world they are living in is a manga--for the majority of Medaka Box's characters, if that knowledge cannot actually change their perception of the world or alter how they live their lives and interact with it--it doesn't matter for them whether it is true or not. Given that most of the Medaka Box characters will never be able to tell that their lives are just a manga, it is perfectly "sane" for them not to act as if it were; because that is natural given their level of perception. On the other hand, given that we have literally seen, through Ajimu's eyes, how she can perceive the nature of her manga's reality (the comparison to office stationary and erasers when Zenkichi used Parasite Seeing on her; Ajimu's accurate knowledge of when she and Medaka were in colour pages; Ajimu's explicit statement that all of the characters were actually just ink drawings on paper), it is also perfectly natural ("sane") for her to act as if her reality is a manga. Rather, because Ajimu is able to see the things around her as what they are, manga drawings--it would be insane for her to act as if this weren't the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
No, Medaka Box is indeed a manga. However, only Ajimu (and Hanten) are able to see it that way, so it's not insane for the rest of the characters not to agree with them.
Is not similar to the people who believed/believe that earth was/is flat and most of Manga characters believe that they are living "real world" but like Pythagoras found out that earth is round, Ajimu found out that world is manga like both them who found out something they would consider Insane or mad by Majority.
ziggi92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-09, 14:22   Link #9296
ccie20012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
I think it is very simple.
I think the final will be a couple - Zenkichi x Medaka. Just before the last arch grew Medaka. It reached a limit. It is necessary to add a romantic line to manga. At last arch grows Zenkichi. Now he will save the Medaka. Not fast - it will be many many chapters. Resolved the misunderstanding about the wedding.
Other options would be ridiculous. If he (Zenkichi) is the hero/MC he should be pairing to the female MC (Medaka).
If it is certainly not a tragedy/drama.
ccie20012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-12, 15:16   Link #9297
Last Carpet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Medaka lost because the entire student body decided to free her from her burden, and I have been arguing that it was actually a victory for her in several senses.
personally I think Maguro's analysis is pretty believable. Yeah Zenkichi made the students realize that they shouldn't rely on Medaka just because she said she could handle it. But seriously, after the tug of war I don't think there was anyone there who didn't feel a bit afraid. And "throwing away" Zenkichi seemed to have a pretty big effect on things.

What gets me is how her abnormality and personality makes her so detached from understanding other peoples feelings
Last Carpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-12, 15:33   Link #9298
Franckie
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
So help me god if Zenkichi doesn't end up with Medaka after all he's done to get her...
Their relationship has been stuck in limbo for several years now. In the first chapter, comments were made on how unhealthy their relationship was. Even if Medaka asked Zenkichi again to marry her it's unlikely Zenkichi would accept the proposal with how Medaka is now. It's probable a relationship won't work out between the two, similar to how Ajimu/Kumagawa didn't work out. Nisio has also implied Zenkichi will finish high-school alone, so take it as you will.

Zenkichi ending up with someone other than Medaka isn't as farfetch'd as you're suggesting.
Franckie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-12, 15:40   Link #9299
Naginoura
匂宮家
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
A little off-topic, but Chapter 151 of Medaka Box will have center color for it's 3rd year anniversary, along with a popularity poll announcement according to an early Medaka Box spoiler provider from 2ch:

Quote:
377 : ◆pshOIaGXj0CA :2012/06/12(火) 17:18:36.20 ID: oOB1qCcCO
来週は3周年記念&人気投票開催センターカラー
__________________
「それでは零崎を始めよう」・「傑作だぜ」


Naginoura is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2012-06-12, 15:45   Link #9300
Tenchi Hou Take
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franckie View Post
Their relationship has been stuck in limbo for several years now. In the first chapter, comments were made on how unhealthy their relationship was. Even if Medaka asked Zenkichi again to marry her it's unlikely Zenkichi would accept the proposal with how Medaka is now. It's probable a relationship won't work out between the two, similar to how Ajimu/Kumagawa didn't work out. Nisio has also implied Zenkichi will finish high-school alone, so take it as you will.

Zenkichi ending up with someone other than Medaka isn't as farfetch'd as you're suggesting.
Urr how is Kumagawa and Aijimu's relationship even remotely comparable? I think it's pretty obvious Aijimu had zero feelings for Kumagawa and was at most leading him along. Whereas we have mutual feelings here. Your right that they miay not but your reasoning is extremely flawed.

Spoiler for spoiler 150:

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2012-06-12 at 16:00.
Tenchi Hou Take is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 23:16.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
We use Silk.