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Old 2012-06-14, 18:21   Link #9521
Randrak42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Look, if I read another comment about N****o in this thread...
Naruto reminds me of that one character in Medaka Box





Spoiler for waffuuu:
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:25   Link #9522
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^Yeah, quite the poor joke you tried there.

Whatever, I don't care. I like the chapter and this all that matters for me. And I have a principle that is not value by individual chapters but by arcs.
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:26   Link #9523
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Whatever, I don't care.
We still loooooveeee yooouuuuu~
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Old 2012-06-14, 18:27   Link #9524
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Whatever, I don't care. I like the chapter and this all that matters for me. And I have a principle that is not value by individual chapters but by arcs.
That's what I like to hear.

Also, did anyone else catch Nishio implanting the little japanese cultural ritual of a girl cutting her hair after a rejection? I sincerely hope he's not trying to imply that Emukae is giving up on Zenkichi. I guess that's another thing to add into the list of 'bad character developments' which occured in this Chapter. Not only is she now wanting to be just like Medaka instead of herself, going against the words she said to Zenkichi, she now has plainly given-up and was ready to die without fighting for the man she loved even before meeting.

I have to say, this chapter gets worst the more you read it.

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-06-14 at 19:19.
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Old 2012-06-14, 20:04   Link #9525
summers
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
The thing is, I think it's less about people wanting Kumagawa to be back, and more about how important he is to Emukae should she want to get any development. Don't you think Kumagawa is important to Emukae's development? Regardless of how he got here, I'm almost certain he had to be involved in some capacity, since he represents her minus side. If Emukae were to get any development, it would have to do with the fact that she's a minus in relation to something else. Her pursuit of happiness is in direct opposition to her nature as a minus, so... and with all the minus talk, Kumagawa would have to be involved in some way.

You seem to be implying there's literally no reason Kumagawa should be here, and that he contributes nothing to the current story other than his appearance, which I vehemently disagree with.
So right. Kumgawa is the leader of the minus after all. Looking at those 2 it feels like he is a sensei to her. The other 2, who are super dangerous minus have something in common, they understand themselves and are proud of who they are, and are able to use their minus psyche against their opponents like a weapon, and when they lost they did not go through some transformation.

Emukae was always struggling, when she was first introduced, Kumgawa had to bring her back in line, with the gesture of letting her touch his face.

Also the reason why she can control her minus is because of his all-fiction.


What Kumugawa will do is going to be something special. Will he release her from her minus nature or teach her to dive into it?
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Old 2012-06-15, 00:20   Link #9526
Sol Falling
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Not exactly, this Emukae can rot the very air. True that the permafrost of the ground impossibilitated Raffrafflesia: Twisted Version, but her air-rotting shouldn't be something you can avoid.

Plus, her wording: 'Sadly, it dosen't work on me' does make it sound simply like the skill just won't work on her. And if she's immune to rotting the very air, well, I don't know what to say.
Emukae's air-rotting ability is probably exactly the reason she was still standing while the other council members weren't. Rotting the air doesn't do any direct damage to anybody, it merely poisons and incapacitates you if you breathe it in too long. Since Kugurugi was only fighting physically and without her ability, Emukae's shroud of rotting air probably prevented her from staying too close or moving in to deal damage to her.

Since air rotting is only centred around her, however, this doesn't change the fact that Emukae can't actually attack Kugurugi with it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
That's what I like to hear.

Also, did anyone else catch Nishio implanting the little japanese cultural ritual of a girl cutting her hair after a rejection? I sincerely hope he's not trying to imply that Emukae is giving up on Zenkichi. I guess that's another thing to add into the list of 'bad character developments' which occured in this Chapter. Not only is she now wanting to be just like Medaka instead of herself, going against the words she said to Zenkichi, she now has plainly given-up and was ready to die without fighting for the man she loved even before meeting.

I have to say, this chapter gets worst the more you read it.
What exactly about Emukae "admiring" Medaka contradicts her character development? Isn't Medaka the frickin' definition of a Plus? Isn't becoming a Plus rather than a Minus what Emukae's trying to do? The complaints you keep bringing up against this chapter ("Oh no Emukae's trying to emulate Medaka who's a Plus", "Oh no Emukae's reverting to a Minus") directly contradict each other. It doesn't make any sense.
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:36   Link #9527
[HearT]
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So just curious~ a number of people have stated that Nisio planned this out over a year in advance? where's that from? was there a juicy interview that I've missed out on or somethin'~? :3 Please and thank you~♥
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Old 2012-06-15, 01:49   Link #9528
Sol Falling
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That's just our expectations based on the kind of writer Nishio is. The "year in advance" figure is probably in reference to a specific incident in some other series. The point is moreso that Nishio's stuff is always extremely intricate in terms of the big picture--small details that you don't think mean anything when you're just reading chapters, right now, come back around and push the story forward in real, unexpected directions.
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Old 2012-06-15, 02:08   Link #9529
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Apparently Nisio stated in an interview that he always has Medaka Box planned out a year in advance. That means that last June he was coming up with ideas for the current chapters.
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Old 2012-06-15, 03:53   Link #9530
Iby
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
That's what I like to hear.

Also, did anyone else catch Nishio implanting the little japanese cultural ritual of a girl cutting her hair after a rejection?
Hmm, I thought that it's just one of his fetishes
As I said, remember Katanagatari (1 girl) and Nisemonogatari (3 girls).
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Old 2012-06-15, 04:36   Link #9531
ziggi92
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Bukiko Udou explicitly mentioned that they had to rush to change locations due to Zenkichi's group approaching. Zenkichi's group explicitly mentioned that there were signs all over the place that people had been in the base recently. They stumbled across the Suitor's half-used mugs of coffee, for fucks sake. It can't have been more than a few hours between Zenkichi's group's arrival and the Suitors' departure.

If the Suitors were blatantly changing location due to pursuers approaching, why the fuck wouldn't the Jokers leave someone behind to observe or watch over them? If he was around the base, how the hell could Kumagawa not notice Zenkichi's group, or decide not to follow them?

Jesus christ.
Spoiler for "right time":


Since IF we look at this page which I post it clearly says that has been one week since Medaka Left Academy.


I think when Suitors got message about the ship was sunk they took action to leave the south pole quick while Student Council was awaiting for back up plus the fight with Second Suitor on Airplane meant they could not possibly go at same speed as they did before fight and also there was not much gasoline left after the fight plus finding the base takes time while walking in South pole.


But also It does take "Hours" to await For Maguro to bring airplane from Japan or somewhere else also even so It at least take up 8-12 hours to fly from ship to South Pole unless the ship was near the south pole but also it also took time to go with helicopter to ship plus fight with two suitors so I think there has to be at least one day has past since they started the hunt for Medaka & her suitors.
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Old 2012-06-15, 04:41   Link #9532
ccie20012
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Quote:
Also, did anyone else catch Nishio implanting the little japanese cultural ritual of a girl cutting her hair after a rejection?
This is a sign that the girls themselves have changed. IMHO from Nisemonogatari.
Not rejected - Hitagi cut hair for example.
Sign of an internal changes - break with the past and so forth.
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Old 2012-06-15, 06:25   Link #9533
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ziggi92 View Post
Spoiler for "right time":


Since IF we look at this page which I post it clearly says that has been one week since Medaka Left Academy.


I think when Suitors got message about the ship was sunk they took action to leave the south pole quick while Student Council was awaiting for back up plus the fight with Second Suitor on Airplane meant they could not possibly go at same speed as they did before fight and also there was not much gasoline left after the fight plus finding the base takes time while walking in South pole.


But also It does take "Hours" to await For Maguro to bring airplane from Japan or somewhere else also even so It at least take up 8-12 hours to fly from ship to South Pole unless the ship was near the south pole but also it also took time to go with helicopter to ship plus fight with two suitors so I think there has to be at least one day has past since they started the hunt for Medaka & her suitors.
The amount of time doesn't even matter dude. The point is you can't call Kumagawa waiting around the base a "coincidence" if he was purposely waiting for the arrival of the pursuing party. However, most of what you wrote there is still bullshit. Read ch. 146 again.

The Suitors didn't decide to leave the South Pole base at all due to Nienami's loss/the destruction of the aircraft carrier. Bukiko initially intended even to capture Zenkichi's group as opposed to running away from them. The only reason they decided at the last moment to switch location was because of Medaka's revelation that she had (when they were two) proposed to Zenkichi--since Bukiko predicted that if Medaka realized Zenkichi had romantic feelings for her (i.e. by meeting him), she would refuse to go through with the wedding competition.

As for how long it took Naze & co. to reach Antarctica, they even said it was "surprisingly close". At the time that their flight was interrupted, they were less than an hour from their destination. For Zenkichi to still have been complaining about their seat plan (5 people in the back), the absolute maximum for the time they spent in the jet could not have been more than about 5 hours.

You can look at ch. 149, pg. 5 to see the fucking half-drunk coffee in the Suitor's meeting room.
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Old 2012-06-15, 07:15   Link #9534
Clarste
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Originally Posted by summers View Post
I think this was highlighted best during medakas test, after that card game, that he obviously won, but because he listened to the girls, but him conceding gained him the respect of the candidates who happily jumped after him following him to the next test.
Kumagawa didn't win the card game. He couldn't have won the card game. It was literally impossible for him to win the card game at that point. Aka had more points than him, and there were no Jokers on the field (because he had removed them earlier). If they had kept playing he would have lost. Heck, he lost a long time ago when she got over 50% of the points.

What happened was a bluff, pure and simple. He had the worst hand possible and no chance of winning, but bluffed so hard that she called the whole game off. Kumagawa never wins, but he can sure as hell make other other people lose. That's the whole theme of his original Minus, Bookmaker. When you play against Kumagawa, everyone gets dragged down to his level. Everyone loses. We see this again and again and again.

For some reason this misunderstanding of the card game is surprisingly common.
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Old 2012-06-15, 07:45   Link #9535
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Kugurugi's statement that Emukae's Minus wouldn't work (on her) didn't have anything to do with her ability. Kugurugi explicitly stated that her domination over the SC to that point had been done without her style, with only pure physical ability. Since Emukae's Minus requires the use of her hands, it's obvious Kugurugi only meant that Emukae couldn't touch her. Kugurugi was merely stating her complete superiority over Emukae to the degree that even Emukae's sole weapon wouldn't be any use against her--it wasn't a statement indicating mechanics of their abilities, rather only indicating attitude.
Still makes no sense to me. Emukae doesn't need to touch things to rot something. It was said that she can use Raff Rafflessia without touching things as her minus evolved. Technically no one should be able to get close to her as she can rot her surroundings. That's why i said we need a good explenation for the doesn't work on me. But let's wait for the next chapter.
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Old 2012-06-15, 07:58   Link #9536
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Emukae's air-rotting ability is probably exactly the reason she was still standing while the other council members weren't. Rotting the air doesn't do any direct damage to anybody, it merely poisons and incapacitates you if you breathe it in too long. Since Kugurugi was only fighting physically and without her ability, Emukae's shroud of rotting air probably prevented her from staying too close or moving in to deal damage to her.

Since air rotting is only centred around her, however, this doesn't change the fact that Emukae can't actually attack Kugurugi with it.
And yet Emukae was badly damaged. Which means Kugurugi had to close in on her to kick/punch, since she wasn't even using her style. Also, the air rotting is a vapor around her, but can also be carried by the wind. So if she came close, the vapor wpuld hit her.

Not to mention that Emukae can also decompose things without touching them after the secretary battle. So, again, coming close to Emukae is not a bright idea. That's why Parasite Seeing Hitoyoshi used her own power against her.

So yea. Just dosen't work.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
What exactly about Emukae "admiring" Medaka contradicts her character development? Isn't Medaka the frickin' definition of a Plus? Isn't becoming a Plus rather than a Minus what Emukae's trying to do? The complaints you keep bringing up against this chapter ("Oh no Emukae's trying to emulate Medaka who's a Plus", "Oh no Emukae's reverting to a Minus") directly contradict each other. It doesn't make any sense.
No, never.

Emukae never expressed any desire to be a perfect Plus like Medaka before this chapter. All she wanted was to not be a Minus like she was before because she thought she deserved to die.

And since she was reformed, became a reformed Minus like Kumagawa, this new desire came out of nowhere. It's bad character development because Emukae's deciding to wear someone like a costume instead of accepting herself for who she is, which is what she wanted to do after she realized she could use her powers to make people happy.

And In-case you missed the end, her speech reverted to the same old same old Minus speech of uselessness and not the one of a confident reformed Minus.

Though I guess that's just because Nishio trolled her so hard, he never intended for her to accomplish anything.


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Old 2012-06-15, 08:19   Link #9537
Clarste
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It's not that easy to stop being a Minus. Why would you expect it to be easy? It's damned hard, practically impossible. Emukae is the first one to do it, ever, given how surprised Zenkichi's mother was. And she studies kids like this for a living. Furthermore, a Minus isn't just a power or even a strange "twist of fate". It's a way of life. A Minus is shaped by their life history. Even if you "want to be happy", even if you can see hope that never existed before, that doesn't mean you can do a complete 180 on your personality.

Throughout the previous chapter and this one, Emukae was constantly telling herself to stop thinking certain things. She wants to improve, she wants to change. And she's working very hard at it, forcing herself out of her comfort zone to do very un-Minus-like things. But that doesn't mean she'll suddenly stop being a Minus. It's a process. Completely failing even when you go all-out? Who wouldn't be discouraged by that?

Sudden epiphanies changing your entire behavior is more of a Plus thing, really.

Last edited by Clarste; 2012-06-15 at 08:32.
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Old 2012-06-15, 08:20   Link #9538
Iby
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Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
This is a sign that the girls themselves have changed. IMHO from Nisemonogatari.
Not rejected - Hitagi cut hair for example.
Sign of an internal changes - break with the past and so forth.
Yeah, you're right. All of them have changed in some way (aside from Arararagi's sister, who just cut her hair all of sudden ). Plain forgot about this.
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Old 2012-06-15, 08:48   Link #9539
Sol Falling
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And yet Emukae was badly damaged. Which means Kugurugi had to close in on her to kick/punch, since she wasn't even using her style. Also, the air rotting is a vapor around her, but can also be carried by the wind. So if she came close, the vapor wpuld hit her.

Not to mention that Emukae can also decompose things without touching them after the secretary battle. So, again, coming close to Emukae is not a bright idea. That's why Parasite Seeing Hitoyoshi used her own power against her.

So yea. Just dosen't work.
Rotting is a process which takes time. Yes, Kugurugi obviously got close long or often enough to throw Emukae a couple punches, but didn't stay long enough to be affected by the rotting vapour. This reduction in Kugurugi's ability to freely attack Emukae, however, is precisely the only sensible reason for why she was still standing while others, like Torai who's the strongest physically amongst them, weren't.

Regardless of whether Emukae can rot things without directly touching them or not, her skill is indisputably based upon proximity. In order for Emukae to attack Kugurugi in any manner, she has to get and stay close to her. Emukae's inability to accomplish this is what Kugurugi meant by Emukae's skill being no use against her.

Quote:
No, never.

Emukae never expressed any desire to be a perfect Plus like Medaka before this chapter. All she wanted was to not be a Minus like she was before because she thought she deserved to die.

And since she was reformed, became a reformed Minus like Kumagawa, this new desire came out of nowhere. It's bad character development because Emukae's deciding to wear someone like a costume instead of accepting herself for who she is, which is what she wanted to do after she realized she could use her powers to make people happy.

And In-case you missed the end, her speech reverted to the same old same old Minus speech of uselessness and not the one of a confident reformed Minus.

Though I guess that's just because Nishio trolled her so hard, he never intended for her to accomplish anything.
Where the hell did this chapter imply Medaka was "perfect", or that that's what Emukae wanted to be? You don't understand dude; by fucking definition, "Plus" == "Not Minus". Emukae having an admiration of Medaka makes perfect sense considering she's the person Zenkichi is in love with.

When Kumagawa became a "reformed Minus", he decided he wanted to WIN, right? That's exactly Emukae's behaviour throughout the whole chapter--trying to believe in the fact that she could actually win. And winning is what Pluses do--not just believing in it, but actually doing it. Copying "Medaka's" (more like anybody's, actually) behaviour in deciding to try to do things and believing that something could actually come of it is the least Emukae could do as a "reformed Minus".

Your hatred against Medaka's involvement in this chapter is completely irrational.
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Old 2012-06-15, 10:04   Link #9540
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Still makes no sense to me. Emukae doesn't need to touch things to rot something. It was said that she can use Raff Rafflessia without touching things as her minus evolved. Technically no one should be able to get close to her as she can rot her surroundings. That's why i said we need a good explenation for the doesn't work on me. But let's wait for the next chapter.
But that was before Misogi tried to erase it.

Now it's weak enough for her to controlm to touch things without rotting them, with the exception of it leaking out when she gets emotional.
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