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Old 2012-06-15, 10:09   Link #9541
Kurosu
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post

Emukae never expressed any desire to be a perfect Plus like Medaka before this chapter. All she wanted was to not be a Minus like she was before because she thought she deserved to die.

And since she was reformed, became a reformed Minus like Kumagawa, this new desire came out of nowhere. It's bad character development because Emukae's deciding to wear someone like a costume instead of accepting herself for who she is, which is what she wanted to do after she realized she could use her powers to make people happy.

And In-case you missed the end, her speech reverted to the same old same old Minus speech of uselessness and not the one of a confident reformed Minus.

Though I guess that's just because Nishio trolled her so hard, he never intended for her to accomplish anything.
I think you're reading it wrong, she doesn't want to become Medaka, she just wants to be strong like her. Take Medaka's situation, where she's aimless and has to figure out who she is, despite all this, Medaka is still acting regular, or at least isn't showing any negativity. That's the trait that she wants to emulate, she wants to stop being negative in the midst of everything that's against her. That's what gave her the courage to attack Kugurugi. Of course, getting pummeled kinda reverted her back to her negative self a bit, which Misogi seems to want to embrace, because they're minus.
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Old 2012-06-15, 10:31   Link #9542
Vigo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
But that was before Misogi tried to erase it.

Now it's weak enough for her to controlm to touch things without rotting them, with the exception of it leaking out when she gets emotional.

But the power of her ability didn't changed. She just gained the ability to controll her power. Like Medaka said she now can not only controll the intensity but also has an on and off switch. Unless I am missing something the power of Raff Rafflessia never changed.

Last edited by Vigo; 2012-06-15 at 10:42.
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Old 2012-06-15, 13:21   Link #9543
Wolfenstein
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Rotting is a process which takes time. Yes, Kugurugi obviously got close long or often enough to throw Emukae a couple punches, but didn't stay long enough to be affected by the rotting vapour. This reduction in Kugurugi's ability to freely attack Emukae, however, is precisely the only sensible reason for why she was still standing while others, like Torai who's the strongest physically amongst them, weren't.

Regardless of whether Emukae can rot things without directly touching them or not, her skill is indisputably based upon proximity. In order for Emukae to attack Kugurugi in any manner, she has to get and stay close to her. Emukae's inability to accomplish this is what Kugurugi meant by Emukae's skill being no use against her.
Did you forget Emukae can control the quickness of the rotting? I'm sorry, now you're just making baseless assumptions that undermine the source material to cover-up for Nishio's non-explanations.

If she did attempt to hit Emukae, she would have gotten a pain inflicted on her, Hito himself acknowledges this. She stated herself the skill doesn't work on her, when if she got close, even if it would be a little, it would work. If it dosen't work, it didn't even hurt her.

Your defense of this blatant non-explanation is irrational. Although, I am waiting to give Nishio a chance to explain this later. Or just accept that he pulled a fast one on us(trolling) again.

He does that.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Where the hell did this chapter imply Medaka was "perfect", or that that's what Emukae wanted to be? You don't understand dude; by fucking definition, "Plus" == "Not Minus". Emukae having an admiration of Medaka makes perfect sense considering she's the person Zenkichi is in love with.
Firstly, calm down. Let's have some decorum, please.

And no. You think the world is separated into plus and Minus dichotomy? There are tons of other categories. Reformed Minus being one of them, which is what Emukae is. She never had any desire to be a plus.

An admiration that came out of the blue, but that's what's hilarious in the first place. This was just another moment in which Nishio likes to emphasize to us Medaka's perfection. I thought it was a coincidence with Naze and Zen, but now I see that he's still riding that train.

Emukae is a reformed Minus, that's what she always wanted to be, not a plus. Don`t degrade her character as if she'd like to become something she is entirely not, please. She even calls herself a minus. Look at Misogi.

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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
When Kumagawa became a "reformed Minus", he decided he wanted to WIN, right? That's exactly Emukae's behaviour throughout the whole chapter--trying to believe in the fact that she could actually win. And winning is what Pluses do--not just believing in it, but actually doing it. Copying "Medaka's" (more like anybody's, actually) behaviour in deciding to try to do things and believing that something could actually come of it is the least Emukae could do as a "reformed Minus".
Clearly you're lost in translation.

Emukae already had this sentiment of using her skill to people happy right after the Treasurer battle. This already happened, this development of her character has already been done.

What happened HERE was a blatant attempt to, again glorify Medaka and fit in Emukae into the `flashback` business by doing what we call forceful character development. That's what the writer does to introduce a plot-point(like Medaka being a wisdom God) at the expense of re-introducing something that had already been settled.

Her feelings of being a minus have already been settled in the Treasurer battle when she decided she would be able to live and became a reformed minus.

Do you understand now? Medaka's appearance was the epitome of redundancy and created a forceful development for Emukae's character which she didn't need, and given her last development, could've easily found that inner strenght in herself and not other people. Not to mention how she want's to become like someone she is not? Not accepting herself for who she truly is and following other people's advice instead of deciding for herself? Something Nishio emphasized on last chapter? Do you actually call that a decent character development? If so, you guys need to read Naruto asap. Never use somebody as a mask for your true self.

I.e Cutting hair.

No need to even mention how she went back on her words last chapter and the words she gave to Zenbkichi by completely giving up on said two points. That's bad, but I don't think it needs an explanation as to why it's horrible for her to give up on her love without a fight.

Why? Oh, just for some forceful character development. I mean, really, this chapter's development was awful. I recommend reading NarutoForum's Medaka Box thread or something. People there have explained this to a tee.


@Everyother post:

This one answers all your inquiries quite nicely. So there's really no need for more words.

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-06-15 at 16:01.
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Old 2012-06-15, 13:43   Link #9544
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...I think you're entirely misunderstanding what Plus and Minus mean. Minus just means you have a sucky life. The total sum of your life is negative. For every step forward taken, you've taken two steps back. Any victory is accompanied by two losses. Being a Minus means you lose, and also that there's no hope of ever winning "the marathon of life". Not everyone is Minus Perfect like Kumagawa, but they've all suffered more than their fair share. Effort is not rewarded. It's bad. No one wants to be a Minus.

A Plus is the opposite. Someone whose life is overall positive. Not everyone is a Perfect Plus like Medaka, well most people aren't anywhere near that, but these are people who can say that life was worth living. They didn't necessarily get everything they wanted, and maybe like Naze they've even suffered more than most, but in the end their effort pays off and they can accomplish something great. There's hope at the end of the road, and they reach it.

Emukae wants to reform from being a Minus into being a Plus. She wants to be happy, she wants to make others happy. Her reformation was merely an affirmation that this is possible at all.
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Old 2012-06-15, 13:55   Link #9545
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Let's focus on Emukae's power rather than on her character development because it kindah seems we might going in circles.
Well, actually, let's focus it is not working on this suitor. Could it be that her power was diminished since Kumogawa's attempt to All Fiction it away?

And from which anime/manga is the current banner of this page in animesuki from? The pic is of a girl smiling/grinning and winking surrounded by flowers, leaves and small branches.
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Old 2012-06-15, 14:06   Link #9546
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Hold on a sec, Emukae never said she wanted to be a plus did she? Why are people arguing that
Alls I knows is this is really neat character development for Emukae because she's facing her insecurities brought on by her romance with Zen-chan.
I find it silly to think this isn't warranted, because she would clearly have a chip on her shoulder since she loves Zenkichi and he obviously won't reciprocate the feelings.
And now she's going through all the effort of supporting Zenkichi because of her love for him, even though it's a path that will lead to her own regret, presumably.
Unless of course she can continue to fool herself into being happy that Zenkichi is happy.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:50   Link #9547
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
Hold on a sec, Emukae never said she wanted to be a plus did she? Why are people arguing that
Alls I knows is this is really neat character development for Emukae because she's facing her insecurities brought on by her romance with Zen-chan.
I find it silly to think this isn't warranted, because she would clearly have a chip on her shoulder since she loves Zenkichi and he obviously won't reciprocate the feelings.
And now she's going through all the effort of supporting Zenkichi because of her love for him, even though it's a path that will lead to her own regret, presumably.
Unless of course she can continue to fool herself into being happy that Zenkichi is happy.
Eh, I commend you on that first part. I don't know why people are arguing that, she never wanted to become a plus, which is why she became a reformed Minus. Not being a full-fledged deathly Minus does not make you instantly a plus. Look at Misogi.

Well that said, people obviously have different standards for what good character development is. Good character development dosen't make her go back on her words and wanting to become something she is not, instead of accepting herself and trying to fight for what she really wants.

Really, I've been reading through the net, and this is basically the summary this side has for such a forceful development:

Quote:
Personally I didn't like it solely because Emukae was going back on the very words she told Zenkichi, and in the end decided to be more like Medaka instead of accepting herself. It literally felt like forced character development just so she can have a flashback along with the rest of the council.
That's not what I'd call good development. That just giving up without even much of a fight. And if she did actually give up on Zenkichi for the rest of time, I'm afraid her character won't last long on the screentime().

Too bad because she's still infinitely more likeable than Medaka. But I'd be selling myself short there. I mean, who isn't?

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-06-15 at 16:00.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:54   Link #9548
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Unless of course she can continue to fool herself into being happy that Zenkichi is happy
"No One" in the harem, which helps in love MC. This is typical of harem stories. At the end of the previous arcs author has declared that now it is a romantic comedy. I love this character
Maybe I just like her hair?
or trolling the author (the scene with a declaration of love where a lot of text).

Emukae x Kumogawa? No bad IMHO.
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Old 2012-06-15, 15:59   Link #9549
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I think it's heading KumagawaxEmukae, too. Way too early to tell, but this chapter had several hints.

Geez Nishio. Give some other girl a chance. Medaka dosen't deserve someone as boss as Zenkichi.

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-06-15 at 16:35.
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:03   Link #9550
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Geez Nishio. Give some other girl a chance. Medaka dosen't deserver someone as boss as Zenkichi.
While I support ZenxMedaka...simply because if I like a character enough I want him to end up with the girl he loves...I agree with that quote so much...mostly because there's atleast 3 girls that imho deserve Zen more xD and who...coincidentally...I love much, much more than Medaka.
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:18   Link #9551
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KumagawaxEmukae sounds great to me
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:21   Link #9552
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Meh, I'm still a KikaijimaxKumagawa kinda guy :I
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:35   Link #9553
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
KumagawaxEmukae sounds great to me
Blasphemy! Misogi is taken! :I

Although the hints of this chapter do unsettle me. Too early to tell, but it's possible Mukae might have given-up on Hitoyoshi.

Would be bad for her character, but that's just how Nishio rolls.
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:37   Link #9554
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and I'm a Medaka x Kumagawa kinda girl :P


rooting for the impossible!
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:38   Link #9555
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and I'm a Medaka x Kumagawa kinda girl :P


rooting for the impossible!
Ship that Titanic, girl!
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Old 2012-06-15, 16:46   Link #9556
ccie20012
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Medaka x Kumagawa - no it's not GE manga ... Kumagawa steals love of Zen ... no (sorry!) shit NTR in Medaka Box ... no no ...
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Old 2012-06-15, 19:20   Link #9557
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Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
Medaka x Kumagawa - no it's not GE manga ... Kumagawa steals love of Zen ... no (sorry!) shit NTR in Medaka Box ... no no ...
ehhh...

did i miss something?
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Old 2012-06-15, 19:22   Link #9558
summers
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Originally Posted by Sarun View Post
Let's focus on Emukae's power rather than on her character development because it kindah seems we might going in circles.
Well, actually, let's focus it is not working on this suitor. Could it be that her power was diminished since Kumogawa's attempt to All Fiction it away?

And from which anime/manga is the current banner of this page in animesuki from? The pic is of a girl smiling/grinning and winking surrounded by flowers, leaves and small branches.
Unlike her other former super minus buddies, hers does not have a mental component. As in, Bookmaker degenerates the mind and body, Scar Dead oped physical and mental wounds, Encounter pushes away physical and mental damage.

Strange that Kumugawa kept someone like her around when he had a entire class worth of the Top Minus to choose from. Maybe He will reveal her potential or lack there of. He start talking his evilness about how Zen will never like her and everything was for nothing and her minus will grow, then later on Zen will say something that will bring her under control.

Kumgawa will then walk off saying he lost again, failing to bring her back to the dark side. While everyone smiles at him. Not before doing something to embarrass the suitor. I think he was the one to beat her, or at least make her give up and thats why he is still there.
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Old 2012-06-15, 19:30   Link #9559
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@for3ver no. It was just an emotional speech about variant Medaka x X. nothing in the manga does not. I'm sorry.
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Old 2012-06-15, 20:38   Link #9560
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That's true. Chougasaki said Emukae's minus could be fixed by chopping off her hands, Lol.
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