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Old 2012-12-10, 21:03   Link #11401
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
Sol Falling
Suffice it to recall why Hansode Shiranui left the academy.
Why Zenkichi Hitoyoshi is current President Student Council.
All key events manga related to changes in Medaka and Zen.
Yes, now you simply have to go ("technically") to a point of a wedding Medaka x Zen.
There are some characters whose problems are to be solved.
Those are shallow markings, you've said nothing at all about the substance of the changes. Why did Medaka change? How exactly did she change? If you understand these then you know that they have nothing to do with a romance with Zenkichi.

Also, in fact all key events in the manga have to do with changes in Medaka. Changes to Zenkichi don't ultimately matter, not on the same level. For example, things like Zenkichi becoming Student Council President are ultimately just background details now that the story has moved onto Medaka's family/past and becoming Kurokami Group President.


In particular, while you are discounting every other climax/story arc if you think that only Medaka losing the student elections was about Medaka being human, you should remember that it was rejecting Medaka x Zenkichi that lead to her current growth as a human. When Zenkichi took away Medaka's hope/reason for living, he had the opportunity to say "you exist to be my girlfriend". If such a thing had happened, then certainly she would have become the perfect wife, a normal girl. However, Zenkichi did not, and as a result Medaka has now had to search for her own reason for living. And it is only because of that that Medaka has had to try to learn to communicate and understand human hearts.

Because Medaka is separate from Zenkichi, she has a chance to grow. The biggest chance to grow she received came from when Zenkichi took away the ideals he gave her. In order to continue growing, Medaka must separate even further. In fact, you can even say that Medaka will only finish growing once she has erased the reason she loves Zenkichi.
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Old 2012-12-10, 21:59   Link #11402
KLGChaos
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Some of the people in this thread make my head hurt. So much arguing and "my opinion is the right one!" going around. Lol. I love when people get angry when I don't agree with them. Always makes my day when they rant about how "wrong" my opinion is.
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Old 2012-12-11, 00:26   Link #11403
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Random thoughts for this arc.

Each arc, Nisio picks new characters he introduced to stay.

Naze, Kei
Misogi, Mukae
Ajimu(RIP), Hanten, Kamome
Namanie

I wonder who it'll be now, especially since this arc has only introduced two new characters, Obi and IIhiko.
Um... wouldn't it just end? We're kind of running out of loose ends. Kamome and Shiranui have been the only outstanding plot threads for a while now, and they're both central to this arc. Throw in things like Ajimu dying and leaving a final gift to Kumagawa, as well as Medaka finally becoming human, and it seems suitably climactic to me. I guess I wouldn't be too surprised if something else pops up on the way, but my standing assumption has been that this is the final arc.
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Old 2012-12-11, 03:17   Link #11404
DawnEmperor
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A bit skeptical of the Kumagawa X Medaka shipping...guess I just prefer them as one of the many forms of shadow archetypes in the series, rather than the pivotal relationship of the series. But to each their own...

Personally, I agree, in that Kumagawa and Medaka representing the two extremes, but I don't know if Kumagawa represents human nature to Medaka's excelling monster. There are definitely those in life who have suffered greatly, and there are those who have excelled beyond belief. In these aspects turned up to eleven. Zenkichi and some of the other normal characters represent a balance, and the malleability of human nature. No, most of us might not excel in the way we want, but neither should we label ourselves losers of society before we've even begun. Or when we finish. But again, there's gray areas to the positions characters have been placed in as well as an active resistance to their categorization.

Perhaps the characters we hate the most are also because they're so human to us. It's definitely a wide net. Or they'll all human in some aspects, and the scale is just waiting to shift.
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Old 2012-12-11, 03:42   Link #11405
Kaisos Erranon
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Shipping Kumagawa and Medaka is like shipping Goku and Piccolo.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
I guess I wouldn't be too surprised if something else pops up on the way, but my standing assumption has been that this is the final arc.
People said that about the last two arcs as well.
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:10   Link #11406
Clarste
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
People said that about the last two arcs as well.
Well clearly they weren't paying any attention because there were tons of things left unresolved, most notably Shiranui (both Hansode and Hanten) and Medaka's "other father" and Kamome who still hasn't really done anything (but might soon?). Which are both being addressed right now. The only thing left now is eyepatch girl's secret but I think she became a complete joke so maybe that's not relevant.
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:23   Link #11407
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by Clarste View Post
Well clearly they weren't paying any attention because there were tons of things left unresolved, most notably Shiranui (both Hansode and Hanten) and Medaka's "other father" and Kamome who still hasn't really done anything (but might soon?). Which are both being addressed right now. The only thing left now is eyepatch girl's secret but I think she became a complete joke so maybe that's not relevant.
Medaka's other "mothers" and possibly new siblings could make for pretty awesome plot arcs.

What about Zen's father? I wonder who the lolicon bastard is.

Most things Kumagawa related are likely gonna be handled in LNs.
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Old 2012-12-11, 04:47   Link #11408
Sol Falling
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Haha. I agree that a lot of the plot's final threads are wrapping up, but one Kumagawa issue I do expect to see addressed in the manga is his promise to beat Medaka before his graduation. Given that Medaka has also promised to become the head of the Kurokami group, it could likely be that this (in-manga) year will be Medaka's last year as well. In such a case, I think at least one more arc could be possible, focusing on the end of Hakoniwa's school year.
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God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:52   Link #11409
kenjtr
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I think zenkichis father can exactly like kumagawa since his mother is like shiranui , i wonder if his mother was double of medakas mother .
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Old 2012-12-11, 05:57   Link #11410
Randrak42
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Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
I think zenkichis father can exactly like kumagawa since his mother is like shiranui , i wonder if his mother was double of medakas mother .
OMG 2 characters are loli types...THEY MUST BE RELATED!!! >_>
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:17   Link #11411
Guernsey
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Well, Shiranui x Zenikichi is a popular pairing for a reason.
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Old 2012-12-11, 06:42   Link #11412
noobita
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Shipping Kumagawa and Medaka is like shipping Goku and Piccolo.
Still better than Zenkichi X Medaka ship. Emukae is the best girl for Zenkichi and guess what? He decided to sink that ship, and jump to other, unstable ships.
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Old 2012-12-11, 07:03   Link #11413
ccie20012
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I find this thread very amusing.
That would no be so weird before Jet Black Bride arc.
But in this Arc closed question Medaka x Zen.

Good that Zen can not read this.
He was amazed to read that he has to choose another girl.
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Old 2012-12-11, 08:18   Link #11414
Kurosu
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Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
Well, Shiranui x Zenikichi is a popular pairing for a reason.
Actually, KumagawaXZenkichi is way more popular in the grand scheme of things, to us it just seems like it isn't.
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Old 2012-12-11, 08:54   Link #11415
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
A bit skeptical of the Kumagawa X Medaka shipping...guess I just prefer them as one of the many forms of shadow archetypes in the series, rather than the pivotal relationship of the series. But to each their own...

Personally, I agree, in that Kumagawa and Medaka representing the two extremes, but I don't know if Kumagawa represents human nature to Medaka's excelling monster. There are definitely those in life who have suffered greatly, and there are those who have excelled beyond belief. In these aspects turned up to eleven. Zenkichi and some of the other normal characters represent a balance, and the malleability of human nature. No, most of us might not excel in the way we want, but neither should we label ourselves losers of society before we've even begun. Or when we finish. But again, there's gray areas to the positions characters have been placed in as well as an active resistance to their categorization.

Perhaps the characters we hate the most are also because they're so human to us. It's definitely a wide net. Or they'll all human in some aspects, and the scale is just waiting to shift.


That's well said.

Honestly, people who say Kumagawa is the most human character are completely misunderstanding. He's one of the most in-human characters in the series. He's a complete exaggeration of the loser archetype. He takes it far and beyond anyone I've ever seen.

So much so that he still loses when he has an ability that trespasses into God's territory. And wants to conquer the unconquerable. That by no way means he's anywhere near bad, but he's not everything.

It's kinda annoying when people miss that stuff, the character who best represents human nature in this manga is Zenkichi - not Kumagawa and much less his polar exaggeration: Medaka. The want to live your own life, the want to be free from what one considers fate, the want to have power, the want for your girl liking you due to your own merits, your best friend lying to you, and many others are the human issues being talked about in Medaka Box, and they do so through Zenkichi's story. The whole point of the True Flask Plan was to create a perfect human was it not? Well, what if that "human" isn't a "monster" like Medaka or Iihiko, but what if the whole point of the arc was to create a human who could understand human's hearts to the entiriety? The "perfect" human - unimpeded by fate and overcoming his doubts. That's what a Zero is, the way I see it. "The perfect human". Certainly seems to be a trait Zenkichi possesed at the election.

And this brings up why I hate Zenkich x Medaka's romance. He's obssesed with her beyond any and all speculation - even death! What kind of normal guy, at 16 years old, loves a girl in that fashion? It's a complete contradiction to his character.

But whatevs, just a crazy opinion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noobita
Emukae is the best girl for Zenkichi
True enough.

Which makes me so sad that Nishio dropped it so uncerimoniously.

The only other good option would've been Shiranui, but Nishio'll never have Zenkichi dating a loli.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu
Actually, KumagawaXZenkichi is way more popular in the grand scheme of things, to us it just seems like it isn't
Even truthfuller!
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Old 2012-12-11, 09:12   Link #11416
kenjtr
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I also find zenkichis love to medaka unnatural since it totally conflicts with his character , no human would like someone like medaka but zenkichi loves her so much he wants to be a girl to understand her more . Actually these words of zenkichi made me loose intrest in him while i really liked him in the past , i hope one day we can learn why zenkichi loves medaka that much .
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Old 2012-12-11, 10:04   Link #11417
IronicTruth
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kenjtr makes a point about that. How does Zen love Medaka so much? It's almost like they aren't his and seems artificial
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Old 2012-12-11, 12:36   Link #11418
Ilidsor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post


It's kinda annoying when people miss that stuff, the character who best represents human nature in this manga is Zenkichi - not Kumagawa and much less his polar exaggeration: Medaka. The want to live your own life, the want to be free from what one considers fate, the want to have power, the want for your girl liking you due to your own merits, your best friend lying to you, and many others are the human issues being talked about in Medaka Box, and they do so through Zenkichi's story. The whole point of the True Flask Plan was to create a perfect human was it not? Well, what if that "human" isn't a "monster" like Medaka or Iihiko, but what if the whole point of the arc was to create a human who could understand human's hearts to the entiriety? The "perfect" human - unimpeded by fate and overcoming his doubts. That's what a Zero is, the way I see it. "The perfect human". Certainly seems to be a trait Zenkichi possesed at the election.

And this brings up why I hate Zenkich x Medaka's romance. He's obssesed with her beyond any and all speculation - even death! What kind of normal guy, at 16 years old, loves a girl in that fashion? It's a complete contradiction to his character.

But whatevs, just a crazy opinion.
I think he loves her simply because they've been through so much together. What's more human than falling in love with somebody after sharing years of experiences? Even if that person isn't suited for you at first glance.

And I don't think Zen is supposed to represent the normal human, I think he's supposed to represent the effect an abnormal being like Medaka would have on a normal human after a long period of time. He's never been entirely normal, no regular person would study for years to learn to disarm any kind of weapon while they are a student. But that's the effect that being around Medaka for so long has had on him, he sees things differently than normal people even if he was born completely normal. Humans adapt, that's how we've survived for so long. Zen has done the same thing by adapting to Medaka

His relationship with Medaka is an off-shoot of that, he's been exposed to Medaka's unconditional love for everybody (well that she had at the start of the story anyways) for so long that to him following Medaka around and doing so much for her just seems completely normal.

That's what I think anyways.

By the way I don't think I've ever posted here before so nice to meet you all.
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:00   Link #11419
Sarun
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Credit to Zeromcd of MangaHelpers

Jump Issue #3 early info
- Medaka Box is in last place
- Retsu!! Date-senpai is 9th from the bottom
If the system is -7, it would be chapter 168 where Zenkichi and Kumogawa is revived. I believed one of the best moments in that chapter had Ajimu blasting away the Kumogawa's loser star in Kumogawa's mind. Can't believe that chapter of all chapter finished last.I even thought this would have escaped Bottom 5.
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Old 2012-12-11, 13:26   Link #11420
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Never really understood how its been bottom 5 for most of its lifetime, maybe it has something to do with what they said in bakuman that kids will not read or vote for series with heavy amount of dialogue...maybe...nobody knows
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