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Old 2013-01-25, 06:54   Link #11821
Sol Falling
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It is a bit fast, but I guess it's fine. At least with the current method, which has Medaka barely hanging onto life with her heart not even beating, there remains a heightened tension that beating Iihiko might still not be possible. If Medaka had received a full revival by someone else at a later point in the story, at that point I'd say I would probably assume Iihiko's total loss and Medaka's certain victory.


As an (power level-wise) outright monstrous shounen protagonist stereotype, there are times when you just want to see Medaka trash everything and spread carnage as that precise monster. The way that Riroland draws half-dead, beaten-up people is sheer beauty, after all. As far as shounen escapist fantasies go, raw destructive power is one of the most entertaining and honest ones. I admit, I love seeing Medaka getting beaten up, being pushed to her limit, and finally calling out the beast within her. Now that she's namedropped her inner-darkness again, we may finally see her manifestation as the Black God of Destruction.

The thing about "humanity", of course, is that it is perfectly possible for humans to become "inhuman". It is simply an effect of being pushed out of normal human boundaries. For people trying desperately to become "human" and integrate naturally into normal human life and society, such "inhumanity" is their natural state. I thus feel that they are most human and "relatable" when they breakdown and fall back into it.

The Medaka who selfishly resorts to her unfair, inhuman power, to forcefully make other people go her way, is extremely human to me. Stripped of all pretences, she understands one of the core tenets of reality: you've got just this one life, in this universe which doesn't really care for you nor anybody. If that is the case, then what is there to do except to chase after power, and do whatever you want with it?

Medaka talks about "loving people" right now, but that's just something shallow--a motivation she might grow out of or change someday. The real, core thing to get at right now, however, is simply that she is going to fight; against her mother's opinions, against people's concerns for her, against an indestructible enemy--and she is going to solely do so, with no justification, on the basis of nothing except her god-given powers. In the end, Medaka's victories are nothing but the simple act of brutal, unjust, self-asserting will. However, to the very end, that is the natural order.

If Zenkichi's acceptance of his natural, insignificant life as a non-main character can be called the Buddha's enlightenment, then Medaka's vivid life force, her unstoppable strength of assertion can be called Nietzsche's will to power. If a person understands the desperation of their life being meaningless, then on some deep inner level, pride will let the latter become their natural state.

(Who is Iihiko, though? He is simply the reader. It is perfectly natural for Medaka to be struggling against him, just as her life and experiences struggle against you).
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Old 2013-01-25, 08:45   Link #11822
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I feel that he often fails at this, though.
To be honest, Medaka is about as believable of a "monster" as Tsubasa Hanekawa is (which is to say not at all). The difference between the two is that while Hanekawa's unerring perfection is genuinely disturbing (if not as much so as Nisio thinks it is, her tendency to throw herself into dangerous situations without a second thought for her own or anyone else's safety due to her inability to understand the value of human life is far more disturbing but that's barely even addressed), Medaka's perfection just comes off as... annoying and rather forced.
Heh. Nisio isn't exactly known for coming up with believable characters to begin with. In an case, I'm pretty sure that he was trying to do different things for each of their characters. Tsubasa was intentionally meant to be an unsettling as an almost entirely amoral character with only an internal set of rules to guide her actions. Medaka, on the other hand, seemed to me a deconstruction of the ideal of perfection. The election arc served this purpose nicely. As to where this arc falls in, this then serves as a journey for self-discovery for Medaka, to find a new purpose or meaning to her existence right after it was stripped away from her. In a sense, this is Medaka's journey to become human. The reason itself matters not; she is how she is, but as long as she can find some justification for her actions, she can keep living on as a human being.

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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
This is an old observation, but her self-righteousness, in combination with how the manga twists itself to always make her actions correct, to always make her win, (even if she technically loses!) is what makes her unlikeable compared to Nisio's other extreme characters.
I tend to see her Sue-ness as a character trait more than anything else. She's meant to ridiculously overpowered. She's meant to be so self-righteous to the point of being insufferable, as her mother once was. In a way, I guess she was meant to be unlikable. But what matters to me is how she justifies and acknowledges that nature to herself.
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Old 2013-01-25, 12:47   Link #11823
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
She's been over this means exatly what it sounds like. Zenkichi already dealt with that.
The two situations seem hardly comparable as equals. Zenkichi and Hato are talking about her Mary Sueness, but both are talking about different aspects of it.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
True, she still loves people as much as ever, but instead of that leading to her wanting to save everyone because it is her purpose in life, she's saving them simply because she loves them. Unlike before, this doesn't tell her anything about the world, but as long she loves those people, thst doesn't matter.
But that hasn't dealt with the root of the problem.

Her unconditional love for all her friends is one of the most generic, simplistic and predictable Shounen traits I can think of. Those attributes pass on to the character and it loses some uniqueness. I could see Medaka going this far for any of her known friends, and she didn't even like Shiranui, or is even her friend to begin with, she wants to become friends with her. Sounds exaggerated and in-human. Mary Sueish.

I mean, I could see Zenkichi going this far for Shiranui, because he actually does love her. He spent years developing that friendship every day. Losing her is like losing a part of himself. That's relatable.

But Medaka's reasons are hardly enjoyable(for me).

Not saying that other people aren't allowed to like this trait, but it's something that turns off several readers like me, or Kaisos, or KLG.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Except you're viewing it through your bias against Medaka. She isn't there to make Medaka look better, but to pose a question to the reader about the new Medaka.
Forgive me, but what's the difference? Likewise, you're viewing it through your own bias, so as to say that Torai being created solely for Medaka's sake as a good thing.
Torai, right now, is nothing but a superfluous character, with no meaning to her, other than she was there to lose an argument against Medaka.

You say she was posing a question to the reader about Medaka? Indeed, she was. But that's simply a less-blunt and more delicate way of saying what I'm saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLG
Someone on Batoto came up with this theory about Iihiko
Interesting.

Though, I sincerely doubt Nishio thought of that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos
I feel that he often fails at this, though.
To be honest, Medaka is about as believable of a "monster" as Tsubasa Hanekawa is (which is to say not at all). The difference between the two is that while Hanekawa's unerring perfection is genuinely disturbing (if not as much so as Nisio thinks it is, her tendency to throw herself into dangerous situations without a second thought for her own or anyone else's safety due to her inability to understand the value of human life is far more disturbing but that's barely even addressed), Medaka's perfection just comes off as... annoying and rather forced.
This is an old observation, but her self-righteousness, in combination with how the manga twists itself to always make her actions correct, to always make her win, (even if she technically loses!) is what makes her unlikeable compared to Nisio's other extreme characters.
Bravo, Sir.

Took the words right out of my mouth.
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Old 2013-01-25, 13:16   Link #11824
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by Qilin View Post
In a way, I guess she was meant to be unlikable.
Before recent developments I wouldn't have questioned that statement, but we are clearly supposed to be cheering for her at this point, even though she remains just as unlikeable. It's hard to read.
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Old 2013-01-25, 13:53   Link #11825
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Before recent developments I wouldn't have questioned that statement, but we are clearly supposed to be cheering for her at this point, even though she remains just as unlikeable. It's hard to read.
Yup. I remember when I myself believed that statement.

Up until 140, I was totally on-board with it.

But right now, it's pretty clear that Nishio really wants readers to like Medaka(probably because he does) and want her to live and cheer for her and such.
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Old 2013-01-25, 14:01   Link #11826
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
The two situations seem hardly comparable as equals. Zenkichi and Hato are talking about her Mary Sueness, but both are talking about different aspects of it.
Or not. Both events deal with how Medaka's actions to help people only drive them further from her, and how even the people she thinks she's helping can have a different opinion on the matter, etc. Seems pretty similar to me.


Quote:
But that hasn't dealt with the root of the problem.

Her unconditional love for all her friends is one of the most generic, simplistic and predictable Shounen traits I can think of. Those attributes pass on to the character and it loses some uniqueness. I could see Medaka going this far for any of her known friends, and she didn't even like Shiranui, or is even her friend to begin with, she wants to become friends with her. Sounds exaggerated and in-human. Mary Sueish.

I mean, I could see Zenkichi going this far for Shiranui, because he actually does love her. He spent years developing that friendship every day. Losing her is like losing a part of himself. That's relatable.

But Medaka's reasons are hardly enjoyable(for me).

Not saying that other people aren't allowed to like this trait, but it's something that turns off several readers like me, or Kaisos, or KLG
Excellent job of ignoring what I posted, but whatever. You seem to be treating Shiranui as if she and Medaka are strangers. It's true that they didn't like each other, but Shiranui was playing a role designed for Medaka to not like her. After the changes that Medaka has gone through, it's not odd that she thinks of Shiranui differently. The Medaka from before would have helped because that was her purpose in life, no differently than how people breathe because they need oxygen. The current Medaka is helping because she chooses to, becaus she likes her.

Quote:
Forgive me, but what's the difference? Likewise, you're viewing it through your own bias, so as to say that Torai being created solely for Medaka's sake as a good thing.
Torai, right now, is nothing but a superfluous character, with no meaning to her, other than she was there to lose an argument against Medaka.

You say she was posing a question to the reader about Medaka? Indeed, she was. But that's simply a less-blunt and more delicate way of saying what I'm saying
The difference is that you, because of your bias against Medaka are applying a negative connotation that isn't actually there. There's nothing good or bad about why Torai was there, nothing to make Medaka look good or bad. She was simply there to ask a question.


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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Before recent developments I wouldn't have questioned that statement, but we are clearly supposed to be cheering for her at this point, even though she remains just as unlikeable. It's hard to read.
Or you know, some people find her likeable, because they like her, not because there is some objective reasoning it.
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Old 2013-01-25, 14:27   Link #11827
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Or not. Both events deal with how Medaka's actions to help people only drive them further from her, and how even the people she thinks she's helping can have a different opinion on the matter, etc. Seems pretty similar to me.
Not really the point in question.

One of them is Zenkichi talking about her crazy ideal of helping strangers, and how that makes her unlikeable and might eventually kill her.
The other is her mother reflecting on her crazy ideal of self-sacrificial love to the end, and how that makes her unlikeable and might eventually kill her.

The end result of all her actions are the same, but the points in question have different roots, which is important and what I was referring to.

I guess it also goes to show how Kaisos is right, and she hasn't changed from her past unlikeability.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Excellent job of ignoring what I posted, but whatever. You seem to be treating Shiranui as if she and Medaka are strangers. It's true that they didn't like each other, but Shiranui was playing a role designed for Medaka to not like her. After the changes that Medaka has gone through, it's not odd that she thinks of Shiranui differently. The Medaka from before would have helped because that was her purpose in life, no differently than how people breathe because they need oxygen. The current Medaka is helping because she chooses to, becaus she likes her.
Sure, but you're missing the point.

The point is that that's an unlikeable motivation. People would be more inclined to believe that Medaka was saving Shiranui for Zenkichi's sake, and that would be more interesting in the grand scheme.
The crux here is that Medaka is, like you said, saving her because she loves people, because she wants to be Shiranui's friend. She'd do this for Chougasaki if it were happening with him. She'd do this for any of the people she loves which appeared in the scan. It feels impersonal, and unbelieavable.

And when you love so broadly, your motivation becomes generic. Just like a generic Shounen hero who self-sacrifices for everyone(what Medaka is doing). She's not Mary Sueing to the point she's Jesus now like before, but it's clear Nishio has no idea how to write a Medaka which many people can enjoy and relate to emotionally.

Regardless, I'm just explaining why certain people find her unlikeable in their interpretation. it's not as if you have to agree with it or anything.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
There's nothing good or bad about why Torai was there, nothing to make Medaka look good or bad. She was simply there to ask a question.
That's the definition of creating a superfluous character: Torai.

Whose only purpose in the series was to get told by Medaka.

See? People are gonna notice an home-in on Nishio's blatent shenanigans.

~~

I found an interesting theory while lookingon the Naruto Forums thread, you'all(I look at basically every forum, ever). What do you think of this:

Quote:
I've always been incredibly curious about how people would treat the other characters of this manga if someone like Medaka wasn't "technically" the protagonist.

She kind of acts as a lightning rod when it comes to being frustrated with the tropes of shonen jump, and really let the other characters be a lot more unique and dynamic. While she really isn't anything special, being that way almost benefits all the other characters that people have come to love in my opinion.

The question is whether it was all intentional or not.
http://www.narutoforums.com/showthre...814203&page=63

Well?

Do you think that Medaka might just be the reason why the other characters are so appealing and likeable?
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Old 2013-01-25, 15:01   Link #11828
Kaisos Erranon
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It all comes down to the question of whether Nisio is brilliant or just a very successful idiot. I'm not really sure these days.
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Old 2013-01-25, 17:41   Link #11829
Qilin
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Before recent developments I wouldn't have questioned that statement, but we are clearly supposed to be cheering for her at this point, even though she remains just as unlikeable. It's hard to read.
I can't argue with that. She was probably meant to be an unlikable Sue-ish character until the election arc. Everything that comes after that is her journey to justify her own existence, to somehow become human, so we're probably supposed to sympathize with her from that point on. Still, it doesn't seem to be working for some. Well, it's a flawed work in the first place; I just appreciate what Nisio is trying to do with the character.

For me, the way the story bends over just to make her right and her crazy power levels are as much part of her character as is her skin color, she was born that way, so I don't exactly pay attention to those details. I focus rather on how she rationalizes her own Sue-ish nature.

Quote:
It all comes down to the question of whether Nisio is brilliant or just a very successful idiot. I'm not really sure these days.
The line between the two is very thin. Either way, it won't stop me from enjoying the heck out of his works. It's really hard to find decent meta-fiction in anime or manga these days.
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Old 2013-01-25, 21:29   Link #11830
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Not really the point in question.

One of them is Zenkichi talking about her crazy ideal of helping strangers, and how that makes her unlikeable and might eventually kill her.
The other is her mother reflecting on her crazy ideal of self-sacrificial love to the end, and how that makes her unlikeable and might eventually kill her.

The end result of all her actions are the same, but the points in question have different roots, which is important and what I was referring to.

I guess it also goes to show how Kaisos is right, and she hasn't changed from her past unlikeability.
And why did Medaka want to dedicate her life to strangers, to the point that she thought it was her purpose in life? Because she loves people, yet as a monster, people shun her, this way she can try to connect to people.

And how did this self sacrificial love manifest? By dedicating her life to helping strangers.

Quote:
Sure, but you're missing the point.

The point is that that's an unlikeable motivation. People would be more inclined to believe that Medaka was saving Shiranui for Zenkichi's sake, and that would be more interesting in the grand scheme
I'm not sure how saving someone because your fiancee would like it is more likable than wanting tomsave someone because you like it.

Quote:
The crux here is that Medaka is, like you said, saving her because she loves people, because she wants to be Shiranui's friend. She'd do this for Chougasaki if it were happening with him. She'd do this for any of the people she loves which appeared in the scan. It feels impersonal, and unbelieavable
Again, you miss the point. Past Medaka would have saved Chougasaki not because she cares about him, but because she saves people, her emotions would have played no part in the decision. Current Medaka would save him because she cares about him, that's all. The motivation is completely different.

Quote:
And when you love so broadly, your motivation becomes generic. Just like a generic Shounen hero who self-sacrifices for everyone(what Medaka is doing). She's not Mary Sueing to the point she's Jesus now like before, but it's clear Nishio has no idea how to write a Medaka which many people can enjoy and relate to emotionally.
Regardless, I'm just explaining why certain people find her unlikeable in their interpretation. it's not as if you have to agree with it or anything.
Ah, now I'm starting to get it. One of your problems with Medaka is that she doesn't fit into your arbitrary values of what you consider interesting or relatable.

I also liked the way you added in a vague qualifier like 'many' in order to justify your opinion of why you think Medaka is unlikeable.

Quote:
That's the definition of creating a superflous character: Torai.

Whose only purpose in the series was to get told by Medaka.

See? People are gonna notice an home-in on Nishio's blatent shenanigans
I can agree with you if you say that Torai's character exists for Medaka's sake. Unlike you, I don't add unnecessary connotations to that. She's there for constrast, to pose a question about Medaka, that's all. Anything else is you projecting your own issues on the character.

~~

]
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Old 2013-01-25, 21:37   Link #11831
Lupus753
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@Endscape: I find that a character doing the exact same thing that they did before, just changing the motivation, to be an extremely weak form of character development. Especially given all the hype for a supposed change that amounted to very little.

Also, what people consider relatable will always be an arbitrary value, given the inherently subjective nature of it.
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Old 2013-01-25, 22:09   Link #11832
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Lupus753 View Post
@Endscape: I find that a character doing the exact same thing that they did before, just changing the motivation, to be an extremely weak form of character development. Especially given all the hype for a supposed change that amounted to very little.
Rather than weak, it would be subtle. Motivations aren't as obvious as actions, but they're still important. As they say, it's the journey, not the destination.

Quote:
Also, what people consider relatable will always be an arbitrary value, given the inherently subjective nature of it.
Quite so. My problem is when people try passing it off as objective fact.
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Old 2013-01-26, 01:16   Link #11833
Westlo
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
I love all the Medaka fans looking down their noses at the non-fans. You guys like her, that's cool. We don't. Let's just have a difference of opinion and let it go, ok?
This is pretty rich since any time Zen gets a smidgen of shit thrown at him by someone on this forum his defense force leaps to his defense. There's one character fanbase reading this manga who quickly shits on one character and leaps to the defense of their "gawd". So hypocritical but I guess that is human nature.
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Old 2013-01-26, 08:52   Link #11834
KLGChaos
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This is pretty rich since any time Zen gets a smidgen of shit thrown at him by someone on this forum his defense force leaps to his defense. There's one character fanbase reading this manga who quickly shits on one character and leaps to the defense of their "gawd". So hypocritical but I guess that is human nature.
I believe we already discussed this a page ago. Both sides have their own people who overreact and start slinging insults.
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Old 2013-01-26, 12:03   Link #11835
DawnEmperor
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Westlo, there are a fair number of people who don't like Zenkichi but don't keep rambling on about how he's the reason the manga is cancelled. As you once said, Sol Falling is generally pretty reasonable even despite the disagreements. I don't think we need you of all people preaching about this.

In regards to Medaka...sure it's tempting to dislike her, I think it's best to look at it from a story perspective and her role within the general story. She's not the most sympathetic but she has a struggle which is like the flipside to our own. She's trying to find the purpose of her life, while most of us struggle just to be able to achieve dreams.
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Old 2013-01-26, 12:53   Link #11836
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
And why did Medaka want to dedicate her life to strangers, to the point that she thought it was her purpose in life? Because she loves people, yet as a monster, people shun her, this way she can try to connect to people.

And how did this self sacrificial love manifest? By dedicating her life to helping strangers.
It's not because she loves people that she'd help them 24/7. It was because Zenkichi told her that he believed that's what she was born to do. Hence, when he disproved that, she asked him for a reason to live, again.

And, hence, why she still retains her self-sacrificial love, and her self-sacrificial conviction on always winning. She just hasn't, and probably never will, learn to bend her ways. She's the opposite of Professor Tsurubami, who always bent his ways to become happy.

Two very different roots.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I'm not sure how saving someone because your fiancee would like it is more likable than wanting tomsave someone because you like it.
In this case, it's a far more interesting, not to mention believable, motivation. For me.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Again, you miss the point. Past Medaka would have saved Chougasaki not because she cares about him, but because she saves people, her emotions would have played no part in the decision. Current Medaka would save him because she cares about him, that's all. The motivation is completely different.
And yet, the result is the same.

Can't you see that that's what people find so weak? That's what I was talking about. It's Sueish, it's effortless, and it's a cheap way to write the character differently without actually changing almost any of it's personality, mannerisms, expressions and actions.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Ah, now I'm starting to get it. One of your problems with Medaka is that she doesn't fit into your arbitrary values of what you consider interesting or relatable.
No shit?

I mean, seriously.

I explicitly told you this in my post. There's no reason for you to be thinking otherwise, unless you skipped it.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I also liked the way you added in a vague qualifier like 'many' in order to justify your opinion of why you think Medaka is unlikeable.
Ok, you need to calm down. Take a deep breath.

It's a fact that many people don't enjoy her character like you do. And it's a fact that many people do.

I'm just telling you my reasoning(and many other's) for not enjoying her.

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
I can agree with you if you say that Torai's character exists for Medaka's sake. Unlike you, I don't add unnecessary connotations to that. She's there for constrast, to pose a question about Medaka, that's all. Anything else is you projecting your own issues on the character.
You don't think a character simply existing to lose a simple argument to another and then completely vanish from meaning in the series makes the character superfluous?

Cause some people...might think of that as the definition of superfluous.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Lupus
I find that a character doing the exact same thing that they did before, just changing the motivation, to be an extremely weak form of character development. Especially given all the hype for a supposed change that amounted to very little.

Also, what people consider relatable will always be an arbitrary value, given the inherently subjective nature of it.
Ok, who are you?!

My clone or something?

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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Quite so. My problem is when people try passing it off as objective fact.
Just because people explain why they dislike her, dosen't mean that they are trying to pass it off as objective. There is a difference, and there also is no need to be so defensive about it.
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Old 2013-01-26, 13:42   Link #11837
Lupus753
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@Wolfenstein: To be fair, I fully believe that Torai was introduced to represent the new direction of the Flask Plan. But I don't think that really came up much, unfortunately.
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Old 2013-01-26, 13:57   Link #11838
Wolfenstein
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@Wolfenstein: To be fair, I fully believe that Torai was introduced to represent the new direction of the Flask Plan. But I don't think that really came up much, unfortunately.
And I'd agree.

If that were explored with more than just one simple, meaningless sentence...

Until that happens, I'm very unfortunately forced to call her existance superfluous.
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Old 2013-01-26, 15:31   Link #11839
Endscape
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
It's not because she loves people that she'd help them 24/7. It was because Zenkichi told her that he believed that's what she was born to do. Hence, when he disproved that, she asked him for a reason to live, again.

And, hence, why she still retains her self-sacrificial love.

Two very different roots.
A shallow analysis. When Zenkichi told her that, they were basically strangers. Why do you think she took the words of a stranger to heart so easily? Why do you think an existence as far removed from normal people as Medaka was, accepted a world view that connected her to the people that shunned her so easily? Because she loves people, that's why. Hence, connected.

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In this case, it's a far more interesting, not to mention believable, motivation. For me.
If you say so.

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And yet, the result is the same.

Can't you see that that's what people find so weak? That's what I was talking about. It's Sueish, it's effortless, and it's a cheap way to write the character differently without actually changing almost any of it's personality, mannerisms and expressions
.

Yes, the result is the same, but the motivation is different. It's still character development, though of a subtler kind than you may be used to.

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No shit?

I mean, seriously.

I explicitly told you this in my post. There's no reason for you to be thinking otherwise, unless you skipped it.
Yes, I got what you said. My problem is the fact that it's arbitrary, or to put it more bluntly, inconsistent. I'm sure if we were talking about Kumagawa or Zenkichi, you would find the same thing quite charming. Even that would be OK, if you didn't insinuate that your position ix objective truth.

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Ok, you need to calm down. Take a deep breath
I'm perfectly calm. I do find it amusing how you're insinuating that I'm being overly emotional and irrational in order to discredit what I'm saying.

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It's a fact that many people don't enjoy her character like you do. And it's a fact that many people do.

I'm just telling you my reasoning(and many other's) for not enjoying her
.

I like how you ignored my post there.

I'm perfectly aware that some people don't like Medaka. My problem is the way you use words like 'many' to insinuate that you're in the majority to justify your opinion.

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You don't think a character simply existing to lose a simple argument to another and then completely vanish from meaning in the series makes the character superfluous?

Cause some people...might think of that as the definition of superfluous
I never disagreed that Torai could be considered superfluous. My problem is that you assigning unnecessary values to that.

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Just because people explain why they dislike her, dosen't mean that they are trying to pass it off as objective. There is a difference, and there also is no need to be so defensive about it.
I would believe that if you weren't doing that exact same thing.
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Old 2013-01-26, 15:50   Link #11840
Lupus753
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Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
Yes, I got what you said. My problem is the fact that it's arbitrary, or to put it more bluntly, inconsistent. I'm sure if we were talking about Kumagawa or Zenkichi, you would find the same thing quite charming. Even that would be OK, if you didn't insinuate that your position ix objective truth.
Where did he insinuate that his position was objective?



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I'm perfectly aware that some people don't like Medaka. My problem is the way you use words like 'many' to insinuate that you're in the majority to justify your opinion.
Fair enough, since on the internet it's very difficult (if not impossible) to distinguish between majority opinion and vocal minorities. All I know if that I've encountered plenty of people online who hate her, but that may not mean much.
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