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Old 2013-02-21, 22:05   Link #12241
mangamuscle
formerly ogon bat
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
It remains to be seen how absolute his ability is though.

Its probably just because that is the usual way things run in stories but I have a hunch that all damage he previously dealt to the world is, now that he is gone for good, reversible.
They will wait until the nurse recovers and she will return everybody (even the dead) to the physical state before being beaten by Iithiko (and then the Doctor that was cut in half will kill her, since that ability is to broken to continue existing).
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Old 2013-02-21, 22:16   Link #12242
Last Carpet
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Interesting twist about Zenkichi's dad, ran away from his family because he couldn't handle feeling inferior to his Abnormal wife.

There so many parallels between Zenkichi and other people.

Misogi
Kamome
Fukurou

And his own father.

It's like a virtual "how to" of ways for Zenkichi to lose his way, maybe even turn evil.
Wonder if we'll ever see him in person.

And what's with the kanji and Fukuro's tongue?
"To Hand Down to, Pass on, Bequeath"

Must be the style he created just for IIhiko, maybe we'll see it after all.
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Old 2013-02-21, 22:23   Link #12243
Guernsey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Then why do you read it, do you enjoy being pissed off?
I realized that I don't hate the manga as much as I hated the heroine. The manga is actually alright even I hated the plot twists and the anti climatic endings to each arc. I felt that the recent fight with Iihiko could had gone longer but as with Oudo, Ajimu, Kumagawa, Unzen and Momozono it was a logical way to end the arc. I don't hate story or fandom but some characters irritate me greatly. It may not be different from I said earlier but I am not really as cranky as I was.

Quote:
It remains to be seen how absolute his ability is though.

Its probably just because that is the usual way things run in stories but I have a hunch that all damage he previously dealt to the world is, now that he is gone for good, reversible.

Given how death is handled in this manga, I wouldn't be surprised if Iihiko's powers could reversed by a style or skill that reverse anything Iihiko destroyed. That was basically All Fiction but that was defeated by Iihiko.

Quote:
Misogi
Kamome
Fukurou
Similar to Misogi, Zenikichi is a loser who couldn't possibly hope to keep up with anyone. Whereas Kumagawa decided that life was meaningless, Zenikichi chose to be positive and optimistic.

Similar to Kanome, Zenikichi grew up without a father and secretly resented his father for leaving him.

Similar to Fukurou, he grew in shadow of his friend and lover and secretly resented for being so awesome while he was mediocre.
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Old 2013-02-21, 22:59   Link #12244
IronicTruth
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anyone thinking "just a flesh wound"
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Old 2013-02-21, 23:13   Link #12245
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by shalala View Post
Also what would have happen if Zen's kick would have landed on Iihiko?
Shiranui would've died, and Iihiko would try to absorb some other body.

Make no mistake, Zen's plan was very risky, he was counting on Iihiko being desperate to stop him from attacking(why he had to give away his arm).
Fortunately for Zen, all that "Understanding" and "Communication" payed off - he can even understand Iihiko's actions.
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Old 2013-02-22, 16:22   Link #12246
DawnEmperor
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Here's how I'd sum up Zenkichi's character.

"At the end of the day, the downtrodden can still band together with other downtrodden others. And the gifted can succeed in their unique ways and have their unique struggles. But who are you? You're just a regular person. What good can you really do? What goal can you really aspire for? Do you merely subordinate yourself to this greater cause, to your selfish desires?

You're just this insignificant being...surrounded by struggling...and you can't run away. And so, you have no choice, but to understand, what makes these people tick. Because really, they're not far away from you in some ways. Really, they can't fit into such simple categories of "downtrodden, losers" vs "gifted people". Not everyone wants to be rescued, and not everyone has the will or ability to save another person. But inevitably the web of relationships will have you interlocked as you wade through them and build your own.

You may never be the very best or the very worst at something, but you can always try to know what it is to be the best and the worst. You aren't infallible, and you can be selfish. You may have that one person you devote your life to, or the single cause you subordinate yourself to in such a straightforward fashion. Maybe out of unwavering faith, maybe not. But you are always building towards something with an eye for reality, for what can help you understand yourself."
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Old 2013-02-22, 16:53   Link #12247
Guernsey
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Is that a song or poem?
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Old 2013-02-22, 17:41   Link #12248
DawnEmperor
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Nope, literally just came up with it, sort of rambling
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Old 2013-02-22, 17:58   Link #12249
Guernsey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
Nope, literally just came up with it, sort of rambling
That makes sense. I was kind of rambling out loud yesterday. Zenikichi will always be the normal guy in manga and he will always be the half assed sidekick someone else's story. No doubt Nishio is gonna somehow make his latest victory meaningless. While it may not have any meaning to us, it did have meaning to Zenikichi as he was able to save his friend from the monster Iihiko.
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Old 2013-02-22, 18:54   Link #12250
K. Shiruto
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
That makes sense. I was kind of rambling out loud yesterday. Zenikichi will always be the normal guy in manga and he will always be the half assed sidekick someone else's story. No doubt Nishio is gonna somehow make his latest victory meaningless. While it may not have any meaning to us, it did have meaning to Zenikichi as he was able to save his friend from the monster Iihiko.
Just like with the election, right? Geez, those complainers and their paranoia...
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:03   Link #12251
Lupus753
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Just like with the election, right? Geez, those complainers and their paranoia...
No, they meant just like the Jet Black Feast. Then again, the greatest thing about paranoia is that you're much less disappointed if it happens.
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:22   Link #12252
K. Shiruto
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^The Jet Black Fest started with Zenkich taking the spothlight while Medaka stayed in the sidelines till the very end of the arc. In this arc it happened all the opposite.
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:25   Link #12253
Soji
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Kurusu@Is just that people are never satisfied.

Honestly I think this arc become better that i aspect and the last ch was one of the best in a long time.
Then again everyone have their own opinion and is fine like that.
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:52   Link #12254
Thth
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guernsey View Post
No doubt Nishio is gonna somehow make his latest victory meaningless.
You mean something like Zenkichi expires due to time limit. Then Fukurou does something ridiculous etc. etc. and takes Shiranui anyway, hence she is no longer saved. (Rendering Zenkichi's battle meaningless)
Oh, before that, Fukuro also reveals that he could have defeated Iihiko anytime and just watched for some random cooked up reason.(completing the meaninglessness)
Then Medaka uses a new Super mode, Beginning God Mode and saves not only Shiranui, not only saves the rest, but also saves Fukurou and Iihiko as well, and converts them to boot.

Sounds like ridiculous fan-fiction, eh, but i wont be surprised one bit if somthing similar happens which renders the present chapter completely worthless
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:54   Link #12255
SoloPanda
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thth View Post
You mean something like Zenkichi expires due to time limit. Then Fukurou does something ridiculous etc. etc. and takes Shiranui anyway, hence she is no longer saved. (Rendering Zenkichi's battle meaningless)
Oh, before that, Fukuro also reveals that he could have defeated Iihiko anytime and just watched for some random cooked up reason.(completing the meaninglessness)
Then Medaka uses a new Super mode, Beginning God Mode and saves not only Shiranui, not only saves the rest, but also saves Fukurou and Iihiko as well, and converts them to boot.

Sounds like ridiculous fan-fiction, eh, but i wont be surprised one bit if somthing similar happens which renders the present chapter completely worthless
It's like it was preordained!
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:56   Link #12256
K. Shiruto
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Fukurou isn't even there anymore. The kanji on his tongue reads "Leave Behind"

The battle is over and all that's left to see is if Shiranui came unscathed of that strike or Nienami is the one and only survivor.
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Old 2013-02-22, 19:59   Link #12257
Tenchi Hou Take
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Honestly the last chapters was one of the few chapters that provided an insight into why Nisio decided to press the story the way he did, many of us may not have agreed with it (I definately didn't), but it was one of few points were I started to get an understanding into why. E.g devil style beyond character quirks and shounen crap why did Zenkichi decided to choose that skill, why does Zenkichi so vehementally dislike using skills in general. Well you can say it was in partly due to his decision in regards to his father, he decided not to blame his mediocrity on others or run away from those exceptional people but he also decided to embrace his mediocrity or rather who he is, that means rather than simply accepting and coming to terms to special people he wanted to come to terms with them as he was, not to transform himself into an exceptional person through there power as that would be the same as regetting himself and admitting that any person he could hope to become through his own hard work to be worthless in comparison to those indivduals basically being like his father.

Medaka's marysueness and Zenkichi's losses also play into that, he is faced with and sees a person who shines his medicority like a star in the sky and intern everyone he's is surrounded by are more exceptional than he is, for which all all the things he achieves pale in comparison. Due to his "mediocre" self he sometimes doesn't always make a meaningful contribution to an arc, he is saved often is always second often last fiddle, but he perservers bettering himself so that he can prove that he as he is, is not a worthless indivdual, that undependent of your inborn skills personality traits you can be proud of who you are in comparison to anyone, through the work you put in, whether it be through understanding or anything. My two cents

The purpose of Medaka's character beyond this I have no idea though I can guess Medaka wasn't supposed to be the most relateable character.
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Old 2013-02-22, 20:08   Link #12258
K. Shiruto
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It helps the reader make a contrast with both protagonists.
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Old 2013-02-22, 20:20   Link #12259
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
It helps the reader make a contrast with both protagonists.
I understand contrast, but I'm talking about defining character purpose what concept is the character expressing, if she was simply a side character contrast alone would probably be enough, but considering she's been the focal character for the majority of the manga, I don't have the remotest idea of what that is. I understand she loves humans in general but why, and how does that play into the greater purpose of this manga. I suppose considering Medaka's "inhuman" nature she's not supposed to be relateable or perfectly understandable but whats the point why are we following her adventures. I like to see a greater purpose in regards to the main characters as well as the story as a whole and Medaka is pretty much a giant question mark. Hopefully Nisio expands on this in a reasonably satisfying way.
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Old 2013-02-22, 21:20   Link #12260
Guernsey
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Medaka has been the biggest mystery in the whole manga, just what goes on inside her head? The current did give us some insight into Medaka's character when she was in the dream world with her mother. While most of us cannot relate to Medaka, there are some people that do. I know this user in the TVTropes forum who relates to her although not in competence, he relates to her in sense that he is someone who is what we tropers call "Inteligence Equals Isolation". Medaka is like an extreme version of a gifted child or at least that is what the manga presents her as.
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