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Old 2013-02-28, 23:04   Link #12421
Endscape
The Mage of Four Hearts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Solace View Post
In the context of the setting, it's always made perfect sense. It's just the story of people with extremely specialized skills, often based on their most prominent personality traits. The author makes great pains to explain everything, leave clues to follow, and he never leaves the reader hanging on seemingly surprise events. Although I think he loves cliffhangers just a bit too much.

It's an extremely weird story with silly characters, but it's never been hard to follow or understand. I think the translators have done a great job of working hard to make sure most of the wordplay remains in the script.
Agreed, I never found it hard to understand, indeed I think Nisio took pains to make sure people understood at times, more than he did with Monotagari, for example.
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Old 2013-03-01, 02:53   Link #12422
Kaisos Erranon
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I'm not saying that the story or elements in it don't make sense, I'm saying that events don't always logically follow from what came before them.
Anything can happen because of this. That's almost my biggest problem with it; being unpredictable is not always a good thing.
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Old 2013-03-01, 04:31   Link #12423
DarkRaven
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I thought this only happened in dragon ball.. and so the moon is gone lol
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Old 2013-03-01, 04:55   Link #12424
Breimoon
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couldn't she use contradictory stile ? you can have impossible things happen with it. Like having the moon go the wrong way and missing the earth.Or could have some meteors hit the moon out of the trajectory to the earth.
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Old 2013-03-01, 05:04   Link #12425
Solace
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I'm not saying that the story or elements in it don't make sense, I'm saying that events don't always logically follow from what came before them.
Anything can happen because of this. That's almost my biggest problem with it; being unpredictable is not always a good thing.
Fair point, I can understand why its a turn off for some. I don't mind it, but perhaps it's because I've gotten used to it in the story. I just go "It's Medaka Box, wacky shit happens", and roll with it.

Like this chapter. Apparently a certain tentacled teacher showed up and gave Medaka some pointers.
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Old 2013-03-01, 05:26   Link #12426
bastek66
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GOD DAMMIT
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Old 2013-03-01, 06:23   Link #12427
Sol Falling
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^ lol.

Also, wow. I gotta admit, when I first read the spoilers (Medaka heals everybody using Five Forks, then dies sacrificing herself to destroy the moon to never return) I thought it sounded pretty fucking retarded, lol. Having read the chapter in context, though, that was actually pretty amazing.

The most awesome thing for me of course, though, was Kumagawa demonstrating how him x Medaka are just better than everything. I've got no idea how the next chapter will turn out, with the whole "Medaka never returned" statement and everything, but the potential still lies for things to go just as Kumagawa said with Medaka making it back just in time for the ceremony miraculously.

On the other hand, the whole "Iihiko, the strongest hero, just wanted communication" issue completely echoed the parallels of his character with Medaka. And with Misogi's farewell sending Medaka off naming her as "human" you couldn't get more explicit. In a lot of ways, you could probably make the case that this chapter constitutes a complete culmination of Medaka's character. I was disinclined initially to believe any of the suggestions that the manga would be ending, but with Medaka's portrayal this chapter (and the next chapter's graduation ceremony for the rest of the characters) I have to admit it could very much be possible.

Of the actual remaining plot threads left unexplored, I guess the main one I would like to see developed by the manga continuing would be Medaka's inner darkness. Sure, we got it "manifesting" (I guess?) in the form of Medaka's End God mode, but we still haven't really gotten an idea of what it actually is or consists of. I'd also like to see what's actually happened and the consequences of the Hakoniwa Flask Plan. Although Medaka did architect its new form, without her around, has/will it actually amount to anything? Also, although this chapter did not bring forth anything new regarding the possibility of Ajimu reviving/surviving somehow, if Nishio does let her death stand I'd at least like to see how that actually applies to her 700 million terminals. Finally, another (probably?) unresolved plot thread which could use more exploration regards just what the hell is Nienami. If the manga does continue, I'd like to see Nishio get around to tackling at least some of these things. On the other hand, none of them are probably major enough to force the manga into continuing.


Anyway, to speak about a final interesting point of the chapter. Nishio seems to be making a point of this "Kumagawa getting brother-zoned" thing by Ajimu and Medaka. Of course, as I originally argued with the Ajimu scene, there's no reason a girl couldn't want to fuck her little brother, lol. However, what is the actual characterization Nishio is getting at here? Why do all-powerful beings like Medaka and Ajimu tend to view Kumagawa as a little brother? The actual intention behind those scenes was obviously to communicate some kind of (platonic) affection passing back and forth between Kumagawa and the other lady.

What are the actual elements which Kumagawa's bond with Medaka or Ajimu consists of? That is my question.
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2013-03-01 at 06:40.
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Old 2013-03-01, 06:28   Link #12428
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
^ lol.

Also, wow. I gotta admit, when I first read the spoilers (Medaka heals everybody using Five Forks, then dies sacrificing herself to destroy the moon to never return) I thought it sounded pretty fucking retarded, lol. Having read the chapter in context, though, that was actually pretty amazing.

The most awesome thing for me of course, though, was Kumagawa demonstrating how him x Medaka are just better than everything. I've got no idea how the next chapter will turn out, with the whole "Medaka never returned" statement and everything, but the potential still lies for things to go just as Kumagawa said with Medaka making it back just in time for the ceremony miraculously.

The whole "Iihiko, the strongest hero, just wanted communication" completely echoes the parallels of his character with Medaka. And with Misogi's farewell sending Medaka off naming her as "human" you couldn't get more explicit. In a lot of ways, you could probably make the case that this chapter constitutes a complete culmination of Medaka's character. I was disinclined initially to believe any of the suggestions that the manga would be ending, but with Medaka's portrayal this chapter (and the next chapter's graduation ceremony for the rest of the characters) I have to admit it could very much be possible.


Anyway, to speak about a final interesting point of the chapter. Nishio seems to be making a point of this "Kumagawa getting brother-zoned" thing by Ajimu and Medaka. Of course, as I originally argued with the Ajimu scene, there's no reason a girl couldn't want to fuck her little brother, lol. However, what is the actual characterization Nishio is getting at here? Why do all-powerful beings like Medaka and Ajimu tend to view Kumagawa as a little brother? The actual intention behind those scenes was obviously to communicate some kind of (platonic) affection passing back and forth between Kumagawa and the other lady.

What are the actual elements which Kumagawa's bond with Medaka or Ajimu consists of? That is my question.
I understanding your faith in shipping but the Kumagawa X Medaka ship has sailed. It's a platonic relationship because she's in love with Zenkichi, it's not particularily difficult to undestand. With Aiimu in a logical context, due to being alive for so long she's naturally quite condersending, and doesn't normally consider someone else her equal, so it's probably quite difficult for her to fall in love much like Medaka, though there's stil probably a chance unlike Medaka who has already fallen in love.
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Old 2013-03-01, 06:52   Link #12429
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
I understanding your faith in shipping but the Kumagawa X Medaka ship has sailed. It's a platonic relationship because she's in love with Zenkichi, it's not particularily difficult to undestand. With Aiimu in a logical context, due to being alive for so long she's naturally quite condersending, and doesn't normally consider someone else her equal, so it's probably quite difficult for her to fall in love much like Medaka, though there's stil probably a chance unlike Medaka who has already fallen in love.
Just like when Medaka said she'd marry Kumagawa "tomorrow", there are explicit romantic connotations to obtaining the second button of guys' uniforms at graduation ceremonies. The presence of platonic affection does not have to rule out the possibility of romantic attraction; for that matter, having romantic feelings for one person does not necessarily rule out having romantic feelings for others, either. Whatever you believe Medaka's ultimate romantic intentions are/were (to stay with Zenkichi, or not to bound herself to him), when Medaka said she "wanted" Kumagawa's second button at the graduation ceremony, she was explicitly accepting the romantic connotations of Kumagawa's feelings for her.
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Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
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Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
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Old 2013-03-01, 06:59   Link #12430
Tenchi Hou Take
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Just like when Medaka said she'd marry Kumagawa "tomorrow", there are explicit romantic connotations to obtaining the second button of guys' uniforms at graduation ceremonies. The presence of platonic affection does not have to rule out the possibility of romantic attraction; for that matter, having romantic feelings for one person does not necessarily rule out having romantic feelings for others, either. Whatever you believe Medaka's ultimate romantic intentions are/were (to stay with Zenkichi, or not to bound herself to him), when Medaka said she "wanted" Kumagawa's second button at the graduation ceremony, she was explicitly accepting the romantic connotations of Kumagawa's feelings for her.
There's the issue of Fiance and confession of feelings, you don't accept someones marriage proposal if your in love with someone else without blackmail, in Shounens anyway. Your being delusional. The manga seems to be nearing the end, probably 1 or 2 arcs the there's not enough time for that shit and the story hasn't even been building up that predicament. I understand everyones loves there fanfiction but you just have to accept it's not going to happen. It's just sad when I see people cling to shit like this. This isn't even a harem where the MC hasn't confessed to the girl who's mutually in love with. This ship has completely sailed. They're fucking decided to get married.

If Nisio had any plans for the ship to have a chance they would just be boyfriend and girl friedn right now, and honestly this manga doesn't need that romantic angst shit, it's better that shit is sidelined. There's and reasonwhy she logically brotherzoned him. It's basically the same as Zenkichi's feelings for Shiranui, though in a different way, they're extremely close but not actually in love. Though Medaka "loves" everyone.

Last edited by Tenchi Hou Take; 2013-03-01 at 07:12.
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Old 2013-03-01, 07:23   Link #12431
telamont
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This chapter was surprisingly good. Really liked the Kumagawa / Medaka interaction for much the same reasons Sol Falling already stated (even if I'm not a shipper myself). Also liked how it managed to make me question if Medaka will actually stay dead. Looking forward to next week's chapter that much more.

Still, it also makes me feel sorry for Zenkichi for some reason. Am I reading too much into it? I mean, a lifetime of devotion and what does he get at the end? Does not even get a say when his so called girlfriend is going off to die... Bookmaker! Quiet now, little Zen, the grown ups are talking. And then... "I was happiest when fighting you, Kumagawa. I want your second button at your graduation ceremony. I'm definitely come back for you second button."

And who was it who stood by Medaka's side, comforting her at the very end (assuming that she's staying dead of course)? Iihiko. That's right Zenkichi, Medaka may be your world, but you're just a small part of hers. An important part to be sure, but still secondary to her battle buddies. Sorry.

Certainly makes all the devotion and effort he's poured into their relationship til now (arguably the driving force of his life), seem utterly pointless. I've always thought that all the vitriol Zenkichi's fans direct at Medaka to be excessive, but with this chapter, I think I can sympathize. If Medaka is not staying dead, I sincerely hope she'll at least stay dead long enough for Zenkichi to move on and find some other girl to err... "love", yea.

Coming to think of it, this is as good a time as any for "Medaka Box" to end. Ajimu gone, Medaka gone, Kumagawa (and all the seniors, including Naze and co) graduating... yep, we "Medaka Box" fans have had our fun. It was a great ride. Time to give the "Zenkichi Box" hopefuls what they want, right?
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Old 2013-03-01, 07:27   Link #12432
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
There's the issue of Fiance, etc. Ypur being delusional. The manga seems to be nearing the end, probably 1 or 2 arcs the there's not enough time for that shit and the story hasn't even been building up. I understand everyone loves there fanfiction but you just have to accept it's not going to happen. It's just when I see people cling to shit like this. This isn't even a harem where the MC hasn't confessed to the girl who's mutually in love with. This ship has completely sailed.
If the manga ends next chapter without Medaka ever returning then Zenkichi x Medaka will never have happened either. There are no constants in this series, that should be absolutely clear by now.

Also, Nishio has obviously never pushed the idea/possibility of Kumagawa x Medaka for popularity, and yet it keeps coming back up in the series. This makes it clear that the romantic undercurrent is part of his core conception of these two characters. Kumagawa's whole life was about how he could never win, although he's gotten a whole lot better since he was saved by Medaka. However, despite all of that, what he is still lacking is that one, single, defining victory. If there has ever been any one single fight which Kumagawa has wanted to win, any one single fight which he feels is most hopeless and would be most life-defining, I believe that is his long, deep-seated fascination/attraction to Medaka from time immemorial.

Ajimu said that the desire to win is equal to the ability to win. She told him she was rooting for him. If there's any basis at all to believe that Ajimu's words meant something for Kumagawa's future, then there's no reason at all to give up on rooting for Kumagawa x Medaka. Because Kumagawa clearly wants it himself, has clearly harboured the despair and impossibility of actually winning her (in comparison to Zen, a Plus who became Medaka's childhood friend at the age of 2, who somehow even managed to conveniently get Medaka to propose to him at 2 years old), and yet Kumagawa's entire story has been about clawing his way up, overcoming the despair of impossible victories, and proving to the "cool", "smart", "kind", "hardworking", lucky Plus people that he is actually better than them.
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Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2013-03-01, 07:32   Link #12433
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
If the manga ends next chapter without Medaka ever returning then Zenkichi x Medaka will never have happened either. There are no constants in this series, that should be absolutely clear by now.

Also, Nishio has obviously never pushed the idea/possibility of Kumagawa x Medaka for popularity, and yet it keeps coming back up in the series. This makes it clear that the romantic undercurrent is part of his core conception of these two characters. Kumagawa's whole life was about how he could never win, although he's gotten a whole lot better since he was saved by Medaka. However, despite all of that, what he is still lacking is that one, single, defining victory. If there has ever been any one single fight which Kumagawa has wanted to win, any one single fight which he feels is most hopeless and would be most life-defining, I believe that is his long, deep-seated fascination/attraction to Medaka from time immemorial.

Ajimu said that the desire to win is equal to the ability to win. She told him she was rooting for him. If there's any basis at all to believe that Ajimu's words meant something for Kumagawa's future, then there's no reason at all to give up on rooting for Kumagawa x Medaka. Because Kumagawa clearly wants it himself, has clearly harboured the despair and impossibility of actually winning her (in comparison to Zen, a Plus who became Medaka's childhood friend at the age of 2), and yet Kumagawa's entire story has been about clawing his way up, overcoming the despair of impossible victories, and proving to the "cool", "smart", "kind", "hardworking" people that he is actually better than them.
Your completely ignoring the fact that in the montage Zenkichi was most commonly featured and his confession took up the largest amount. There was a reason for this and should Medaka have died it still would be a Medaka x Zenkichi end since he was the most prominent feature of her life. Also the preview for next chapter is asking what Zenkichi is up to and most probably sadly has something to do with Medaka.

The rest is just usual shipping crap with which it's pointless to argue with.
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Old 2013-03-01, 07:41   Link #12434
zigantz22
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Ugh, Medaka x Kumagawa is never going to happen, nor is it the least bit romantic. Zenkichi x Shiranui is far, far more likely, and that's still nearly impossible.
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Old 2013-03-01, 07:45   Link #12435
Tenchi Hou Take
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Originally Posted by zigantz22 View Post
Ugh, Medaka x Kumagawa is never going to happen, nor is it the least bit romantic. Zenkichi x Shiranui is far, far more likely, and that's still nearly impossible.
I know right he was explictly brotherzoned this very chapter yet people think it has a chance. It has no chance accept it an move on. It's quite said when a certain shipping is clung to like this when the in story logic proves otherwise. I mean she didn't even friendzone him, brotherzone means she never really saw him as a man it's about as worse as it gets platonic relationship-wise.
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Old 2013-03-01, 07:51   Link #12436
Breimoon
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if you read carefully it is kumagawa that wants to give the buttom to medaka and she says "i really want that" but i think it is more like she accepts his feelings but won't return them.The bond she has with kumagawa is that of a little brother because she looks after him .And she is happy she managed to change him. Zenkichi won. (sorry for crap english, not native language)
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Old 2013-03-01, 08:06   Link #12437
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
Your completely ignoring the fact that in the montage Zenkichi was most commonly featured and his confession took up the largest amount. There was a reason for this and should Medaka have died it still would be a Medaka x Zenkichi end since he was the most prominent feature of her life. Also the preview for next chapter is asking what Zenkichi is up to and most probably sadly has something to do with Medaka.

The rest is just usual shipping crap with which it's pointless to argue with.
lol. You are bringing in minor things like panel compositions, and you think that what I wrote was just pointless shipping crap?

My own reasons for shipping Kumagawa x Medaka aren't just for the hell of it, it's based on careful character analysis and the fact that Kumagawa is my favourite character. You'd have to be fucking blind to deny that Kumagawa has consistently had a long and meaningful interest in Medaka, so as one of the few Kumagawa fans who also has zero problems with Medaka, I'm supporting him. The same way as how Nishio explicitly revealed Kumagawa was written as a character who was meant to be supported.


So somehow this chapter where Zenkichi got BookMaker'd before he ever said anything, where Medaka told Kumagawa that it was when fighting against him that she was happiest, where Medaka explicitly says she wants a token of romantic interest from Kumagawa, and then where she dies never to see Zenkichi again, is supposed to be a Zenkichi x Medaka ending? Who's the delusional one here?
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Old 2013-03-01, 08:15   Link #12438
Iby
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By the way, what the hell is this part?

Can't remember anything about it...
Is that a Balrog or something? o_O
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Old 2013-03-01, 08:16   Link #12439
Sol Falling
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That's the giant rotting tree from Emukae's Student Council battle. Zenkichi's mom faught it with a giant chainsaw.
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Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
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Old 2013-03-01, 08:24   Link #12440
Iby
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Yeah, you're right, it's from chapter 82.
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