AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-15, 19:30   Link #12841
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
I'd rather die then draw my own fanart >:I
__________________
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-15, 19:34   Link #12842
silvercover
Romance Expert
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
yep, im also with the theory that nienami = ajimu.
for a gag character, she's a bit too deeply involved with a particular character in comparison to how kumagawa rolls.
silvercover is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-15, 19:42   Link #12843
K. Shiruto
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
She even does Anshin's catchphrase: Glittering Star sign + sticking out her tongue with a smile.
K. Shiruto is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-15, 19:46   Link #12844
Lupus753
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Albert Einstein was part of Anshin'in.
Not an exact quote, but I think I got the gist of it.

There is no joke too dumb for me to tell.
Lupus753 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-15, 19:48   Link #12845
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Oh, wow.

Ok, that was actually pretty good.
__________________
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 01:30   Link #12846
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
That would be pretty stupid, because Zen explicitly said "it's time for me to change" and it's clear this is character development.

Anyway, as I've said frequently, there are no constants with regards to this series. Every aspect of Medaka (her box, her motivation, her being the strongest or being unable to understand other humans) has been deconstructed enough, now it is finally time to deconstruct Zenkichi's devotion to her. Let's put an end to the sickeningly cliche shounen romance between them. The infantile interdependency of Medaka and Zenkichi's relationship has been since the start one of the very worst aspects of their characters.

(You guys should realize this is only a start, right? Zen was long ago put on this path when Ajimu helped him self-realize and get over his obsession with "protecting" Medaka, this chapter does not actually represent a major development for him. However, a major aspect of Medaka's character which she has never addressed or been pushed to develop away from is her emotional dependency on Zen. This is one of the major flaws of her character -- her inability to stand up to the loneliness of the universe, the challenge of communicating with other humans, by herself. This chapter and this development is a trigger for that. What I'm saying is that what we will be getting is an arc about Medaka getting over Zen. (Though it might not be an entire arc, Nishio could probably address all the development in a single chapter if he wanted to.))
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
HappinessCharge Precure 100/5 :: Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Mushishi S2 90/5 :: Akuma no Riddle: 15/5 :: Inugami-san to Nekoyama-san 24/5 :: GochiUsa 33/5 :: Soul Eater NOT! 18/5 :: Love Live! S2 80/5
Summer: Sailor Moon Crystal 24/5 :: Hanayamata 30/5 :: Locodol 30/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
Awesome shoujo manga: Last Game

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2013-03-16 at 03:24.
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 03:12   Link #12847
Iby
minority spirit(?)
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyakka Ryoran
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to Iby
Does this one work?
Spoiler for pic:

Anyways if you'll ask me I haven't seen any signs of Zen stopping to love Medaka. Yes, he wants to change but entirely for her sake/to be with her as an equal.

Last edited by Iby; 2013-03-16 at 08:28.
Iby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 06:49   Link #12848
Insert_Gel
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Don't worry about what Sol Falling said. He's being delusional again Since he badly wants ZenxMedaka relationship to end so that his Kumagawa will have a shot to Medaka.
Insert_Gel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 12:59   Link #12849
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iby View Post
Yes, he wants to change but entirely for her sake/to be with her as an equal.
No.

Just - no.

Sorry, that's not what happened in the manga.

Him rejecting her right now has nothing to do with bettering himself for her, much less for her sake. He explicitly states that he's no longer a guy who loves Medaka to the point that just being besides her will satisfy him, hence why he's changing, to living his own life - which he's having fun in, by the way - from simply being besides her.

Just being with her dosen't make the cut for him anymore. Plain and simple. So he's not going to abandon his life for that, which resulted in that rejection.

Is it a sign that their love isn't as important to him as it used to be? Yeah. Dosen't mean he stopped loving her, just that his love for her dosen't take precedence over his own life anymore. Sign of, you know, development. Maturity.

Please, let's not get that wrong.
__________________
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:12   Link #12850
Iby
minority spirit(?)
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyakka Ryoran
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to Iby
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Him rejecting her right now has nothing to do with bettering himself for her, much less for her sake.
Spoiler for pic:
Iby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:24   Link #12851
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Thank you for proving my point.

Where, pray tell, does it say that he's changing himself for her sake, or to be with her in this chapter?

That's right. It dosen't. Because he's changing himself so he can be a person who isn't so dependant on his love, like Hanten. Why? Because he's having fun living his current life.

In-fact, it explicitly says he's changing himself, from someone like Hanten, who would've accepted the request because all that he wanted was to be with her, to someone who dosen't - someone who isn't satisfied anymore by just being with Medaka, and wants to live his own life instead of sacrificing what he wants to do.

Like it or not, his character just grew out of his ridiculous and overblown dependency on Medaka's love.

This lack of nuance is seriously ridiculous. It's as if people think everything Zenkichi does is for love, when that's a disservice to his character in this chapter. Sorry for being so blunt, but that's just the way it is, it's an extremely myopic view.

Since when Sol and I agree on something, that's gotta be right.
__________________
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:37   Link #12852
KleenexGhost
Measure Feeling Match
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
I really dig the fact that Zen is trying to become his own man and walk down his own path. Medaka has changed now it's his turn to change and better himself. Him rejecting Medaka did hurt, just look at his face to see that. He still loves her but he needs to do his own thing. For now at least.

Now the question is how long will it stick?

I really wanna see what Nisio does with Nienami. Especially since he's teasing that she's Ajimu or has some connection to her.
__________________
"Do not pretend. Retribution for forgiveness, betrayal for trust, despair for hope, darkness for light, dark death for the living." - Kirei Kotomine
KleenexGhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:41   Link #12853
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Hopefully he can just fully outgrow his love for her and start loving someone decent. Like Nienami Shiranui or Emukae.

What? People can dream.
__________________
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:45   Link #12854
zigantz22
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
That would be pretty stupid, because Zen explicitly said "it's time for me to change" and it's clear this is character development.

Anyway, as I've said frequently, there are no constants with regards to this series. Every aspect of Medaka (her box, her motivation, her being the strongest or being unable to understand other humans) has been deconstructed enough, now it is finally time to deconstruct Zenkichi's devotion to her. Let's put an end to the sickeningly cliche shounen romance between them. The infantile interdependency of Medaka and Zenkichi's relationship has been since the start one of the very worst aspects of their characters.

(You guys should realize this is only a start, right? Zen was long ago put on this path when Ajimu helped him self-realize and get over his obsession with "protecting" Medaka, this chapter does not actually represent a major development for him. However, a major aspect of Medaka's character which she has never addressed or been pushed to develop away from is her emotional dependency on Zen. This is one of the major flaws of her character -- her inability to stand up to the loneliness of the universe, the challenge of communicating with other humans, by herself. This chapter and this development is a trigger for that. What I'm saying is that what we will be getting is an arc about Medaka getting over Zen. (Though it might not be an entire arc, Nishio could probably address all the development in a single chapter if he wanted to.))
The one thing I'm sure of in regards to Medaka x Zen's relationship, is that Medaka will never stop loving Zenkichi. It's just not a possibility for her. Of course, it's also not a possibility for Zenkichi, but that's been well-stated. But, by all means, continue to think that this is going to happen, merely so that, if it did, you would be able to once again start up with the whole "Kumagawa x Medaka are obviously going to become a couple", but, as most everyone knows, none of that is going to happen. Also, if you actually read Medaka's words in this chapter as she was saying goodbye to Zenkichi, you would understand that her love for Zen is deeper than you are willing to admit. No one gets over someone they have loved since the age of two in one small arc. If it didn't happen in the first 186 chapters, it's definitely not going to happen as the manga is nearing its end.They're simply going to become better and more individualistic people, primarily Zenkichi, at which point, upon reuniting with one another, they will inevitably come closer to the marriage that has been one of the most defined foreshadowings in the entire story up to this point.

Her love for Zenkichi, though very sporadically noticeable, is one of the only elements of her characterization that actually relates her to the humanistic nature of the world. If she were to unrealistically shed that particular inclinnation, she'd only be more ridiculously alienated from actual depth.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Thank you for proving my point.

Where, pray tell, does it say that he's changing himself for her sake, or to be with her in this chapter?

That's right. It dosen't. Because he's changing himself so he can be a person who isn't so dependant on his love, like Hanten. Why? Because he's having fun living his current life.

In-fact, it explicitly says he's changing himself, from someone like Hanten, who would've accepted the request because all that he wanted was to be with her, to someone who dosen't - someone who isn't satisfied anymore by just being with Medaka, and wants to live his own life instead of sacrificing what he wants to do.

Like it or not, his character just grew out of his ridiculous and overblown dependency on Medaka's love.

This lack of nuance is seriously ridiculous. It's as if people think everything Zenkichi does is for love, when that's a disservice to his character in this chapter. Sorry for being so blunt, but that's just the way it is, it's an extremely myopic view.

Since when Sol and I agree on something, that's gotta be right.
I completely agree about his disdain for ever being similar to Hanten, but that doesn't indicate that his love for Medaka has diminished at all, only that it's thankfully changed into something far more mature. He realizes that he'll only be able to grow and become someone who's life isn't solely determined by his love for Medaka with this decision to temporarily be separated from her side, but he's also obviously aware that it's not permanent, or else their conversation would have likely been considerably more dramatic.
zigantz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:48   Link #12855
KleenexGhost
Measure Feeling Match
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
I like each of those girls more than Medaka. Throw Naze in there for a little fun.
__________________
"Do not pretend. Retribution for forgiveness, betrayal for trust, despair for hope, darkness for light, dark death for the living." - Kirei Kotomine
KleenexGhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:48   Link #12856
Insert_Gel
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
What? People can dream.
Of course. It's not bad to dream to please yourself
Insert_Gel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:49   Link #12857
Iby
minority spirit(?)
*Fansubber
 
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Hyakka Ryoran
Age: 24
Send a message via ICQ to Iby
Well I wasn't proving your opinion. You said that he didn't decide it because of Medaka but what I'm pointing out that he decided to do this because Medaka did that first, so he's just following her example. That's how I'm seeing it at least.
Iby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:49   Link #12858
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by zigantz22 View Post
I completely agree about his disdain for ever being similar to Hanten, but that doesn't indicate that his love for Medaka has diminished at all, only that it's thankfully changed into something far more mature. He realizes that he'll only be able to grow and become someone who's life isn't solely determined by his love for Medaka with this decision to temporarily be separated from her side, but he's also obviously aware that it's not permanent, or else their conversation would have likely been considerably more dramatic.
Cool. I'm glad that you realize that Zenkichi's not doing this for love, or to better himself for her, but simply because he wants to live his own life for a while, have some time for himself, grow from his dependancy.

That's what I think is important that we - all of us - get straight.

I consider it more mature because he's no longer just satisified simply being with Medaka, and in all ways, he is starting to value his own life, what he wants to do, more than her love. One could consider that a diminish of the importance of her love for him, being that before it was the opposite, and that's what I meant.

It's a good thing, it's maturity and development.

Of course, it dosen't mean he dosen't love her, more than likely still does. They'll probably still end up toguether, as much as I, personally, dislike the idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Iby
You said that he didn't decide it because of Medaka but what I'm pointing at is that he decided to do this because Medaka did that first, so he's just following her example. That's how I'm seeing it at least.
That's not what you were arguing.

You said that his motivation for changing is because he wants to be better for Medaka's sake/to be by her side.

That's what was erroneous about you said. Because that's not his motivation, as me and Zigs have just discussed. His motivation for changing is to live his own life and follow his own path, currently.
It's got nothing to do with love or even both of them as a couple. It's about Zenkichi stopping being depedant and move on with his life.

Medaka changed from someone who would self-sacrifice what she wanted to do for what she thought she had to.

Likewise, Zenkichi thinks it's time he changed from an aspect similar to that.

Which means growing out of his need for Medaka's love, like he said. Dosen't mean he's eliminated it - It's just no longer what satisfies his soul and being beyond everyone and everything else in his life combined.
__________________

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2013-03-16 at 14:23.
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:52   Link #12859
Gundamx
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
It sux to be Medaka >>> dump twice ( from her point of view ).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenchi Hou Take View Post
I don't know why but Zenkichi's face when he says I'm no longer satisfied by just being by her side reminds me of the Soul eater Excalibur face. It's basically like he just saw his future and went nope fuck that.
Excalibur say hi:
Spoiler for Excalibur:
Gundamx is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-16, 13:54   Link #12860
KleenexGhost
Measure Feeling Match
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sunriseland
I personally just wanna see Zenkichi become his own man and develop himself.
__________________
"Do not pretend. Retribution for forgiveness, betrayal for trust, despair for hope, darkness for light, dark death for the living." - Kirei Kotomine
KleenexGhost is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:09.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.