AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Related Topics > Manga & Light Novels

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2013-03-23, 20:39   Link #13001
ccie20012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
@willx
Is the idea of two people that love each other being away from each other - it's normal idea.
It's idea from real life.
P.S.
"Shipping ruins great characters" - it's only absurd (from my side).
I am read "romance comedy" + action
ccie20012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 20:47   Link #13002
Kinali
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by ccie20012 View Post
@Wolfenstein
His words that he did not care. It's just sarcasm. These are words spoken with bitterness and pain. He will not chase after her? He is happy that she is temporarily leaving him? He cries.

See page 17. I almost caught up with you ... We have divided again.
I believe that the Zen just went to another trip to catch up with her. Directly from this page.
Well it can mean that he's trying to better himself so he can be equal to her but at his own pace. He's going after his goals instead of that one goal of chasing after her. I don't really know what they are but he's doing it to better himself and not for her. Saying he's just chasing after her its like saying Kumagawa's ultimate win is Medaka.

Speaking of Kumagawa and his ultimate win I doubt there is one anymore. If you look at it the way Sol Falling looks at Zen's and Medaka's relationship you might agree with me. Once I did that I also considered Kumagawa's love the same as theirs. There really was no proof until he gave that statement about his fear that without Medaka he would revert to his old self. All this time his so called love could have been from that. If that is not considered any proof then Zen's and Medaka's first meeting isn't any better.

The only difference now is that Kumagawa doesnt have anything holding him back anymore. He won and no matter how small of a win it was. Its still a way of him knowing he can win in the future. He now knows he doesn't need Medaka to stay the way he is and even from all that stuff that happens to him he will be happy. So in a way he can do anything from now on and that includes maybe getting with Medaka. He wont be trying to get Medaka just to be happy and to prevent him from going like his old self or for this ultimate win but because he just wants to be with her. If anything, his ultimate win was his realization of all that and that his possibilities are endless.

Now for Zen and Medaka I think they have reached that same critical point. Except, they make it more dramatic (in a way) and they will drag it out a lot longer than those 2 chapters they did for Kumagawa. Will it be easy? Who knows.

Well if you disagree with anything Sol Falling says then disregard all of this. Heck, I'm sure Sol wouldn't agree with this since he loves Kumagawa so much just like Zenkichi's fans don't agree with him. I guess that's the beauty of not choosing one character over the other. I don't care who ends up with who but I just wanted to give my thoughts on what I see after reading most of these comments. To tell you the truth I never looked at it like that until all of this. Damn shippers!
Kinali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 21:16   Link #13003
telamont
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
About time. Unlike his defeat of Iihiko, which I saw coming the moment Shiranui was possessed, and to which my response was a "Huh. As expected. In the exact manner I expected it to happen." I've genuinely been impressed by Zenkichi these past two chapters. Defeating the big bad is a matter of course when you're a main character in a Shonen Jump manga, but this kind of change in character is a different matter altogether. Change is difficult, and such a major change in one's driving motivation even more so.

Hats off to you Zen. You've finally completed the journey to being your own man.

Really, no matter what direction the manga decides to take after this, follow Medaka around without Zen (Yes! More screen time for other people.) or follow Zen's new life (Oh well. It's been fun. Unless Zenkichi can consistently pull off stunts like the past two chapters, or the election battle.) I hope we won't return to the old status quo.

If Zenkichi has his own goals and ambitions in addition to loving Medaka, if they do get back together, at least I won't find their relationship so distasteful. In the mean time, I'll wave my Medaka x Anyone Else flag. Hopefully, Emukae has chance with Zen now. Zen x Nienami would also be amusing. If Zenkichi Box does happen, I'll keep reading for that alone.
telamont is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 22:32   Link #13004
Sol Falling
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 25
Sorry about missing a couple posts from people. I've been kinda busy, haven't really had the time to come back and write huge posts.

My thoughts on dependency vis a vis Kumagawa's feelings for Medaka. If you think about it that could only apply after his reformation by her. However, Kumagawa's confession of love came before that happened. Thus 'dependency' can at best only be a part of Kumagawa's feelings for Medaka, not the root. And in fact, Kumagawa already did prove that he isn't dependent on Medaka--he didn't revert from his reformed personality, even while both Medaka and Ajimu were gone. Thus I feel that Kumagawa's happiness when Medaka returned, came from something else.

If you return to the Minus arc climax, where Kumagawa first realized he was in love with Medaka, you can basically get an explanation. Kumagawa says he is/was "fascinated" by Medaka. In this sense, you could say that Kumagawa's feelings for Medaka were always very complex. On one hand, Kumagawa definitely held hatred for Medaka--for being the strong, the perfect, the elite, the talented, representing everything which he wanted to destroy. On the other hand, for being so strong, brilliant, peerless, overwhelming, Medaka also represented everything Kumagawa wished for but couldn't have. This combination of love and hatred was what formed up Kumagawa's "fascination" towards Medaka.

The resolution to Medaka and Kumagawa's battle came when Medaka told Kumagawa that he was also strong; that she also held love and hatred for him; that with his strength, he could also win. By convincing Kumagawa that he was not so different from her Kumagawa had his reason for bearing jealousy removed. Yes, Kumagawa could also win--maybe not in that battle against Medaka, but certainly in some other place, against some other person. And that's the resolution we've had up to now. That is mostly what we've seen of Kumagawa's story.

Yes, Kumagawa found happiness and victories interacting with other people. He acted cool, showed off his abilities, and proved his superiority over minor characters. All very good and well. But was that really enough for him? And was that really enough for us, fans of Kumagawa's character?

This was exactly the question Medaka asked Kumagawa, at the start of the Shiranui Shiranai arc. Both she and Kumagawa had settled down at that point--Medaka had lost her purpose, and thus become less obsessed with fighting and challenging others; while Kumagawa had found happiness, achieving joy in his interactions with other people. So Medaka basically asked, 'is this the end of your obsession with challenging me? Will this be the end of your fascination?'. However, what Kumagawa answered was no, he would not be satisfied--that beating Medaka would still be his ultimate victory.

It is not enough for Kumagawa simply to be 'strong', or able to 'win'. The center of Kumagawa's feelings still remains Medaka, the person who represents the 'strongest' of all.

However, how exactly is Kumagawa supposed to 'beat' Medaka? In what arena? In what task? Medaka herself has already lost plenty of times, in 'games' or against inhuman opponents. Just a single victory over Medaka would not represent much, without anything on the line. Unless it managed to symbolize something greater or significant, there's no reason to call just any victory over Medaka the 'ultimate' one.

In any case, the real root of Kumagawa's desire to beat Medaka is and was his still remaining feelings. The fact that he was fascinated by her, more than any other person in the world. The true victory, and true proof of Medaka's original statement that he is the same as her (strong and capable of victory), would be if Kumagawa managed to make Medaka feel/return the same emotions as him. If Kumagawa could make Medaka fascinated by him in the same way he is fascinated by Medaka. That would truly justify them as equals, and demonstrate Kumagawa's 'worth' in a way which any simple victory could not do.

Kumagawa's original mission was to defeat and replace the 'main characters'. To prove that he was just as good as them. The Kumagawa as he is now, after he found 'happiness', can only be called a side supporting character or friend. Even if the fans don't think that way, that doesn't mean anything for the actual truth inside the story. To truly fulfill his story Kumagawa has to go all the way--displace Medaka or Zenkichi, raise himself to true equality as another main character. And the most meaningful way to do that without disrespecting any of the other characters, would be for Medaka to acknowledge him as a (romantic) partner--returning the same feelings, as Kumagawa held for her.
__________________
Seasonal enjoyment ratings:
Stardust Crusaders 80/5 :: Sailor Moon Crystal 20/5 :: Hanayamata 28/5 :: Locodol 50/5 :: Yama no Susume 100/5 :: Sabagebu 28/5 :: Momo Kyun Sword 11/5
Fall: Sora no Method 21/5 :: Karen Senki 6/5 :: Cross Ange 1/5 :: Shirobako 22/5 :: Yuuki Yuuna 23/5 :: Mushishi S2 100/5
God-tier yuri oneshot mangaka: Minase Ruruu
Sonohana twitter follow campaign: mikajyo_info :: rewards (anime adaptation if they reach 50000!!)
Exceptional shoujo manga: Last Game
Sol Falling is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-23, 22:41   Link #13005
Lupus753
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
However, how exactly is Kumagawa supposed to 'beat' Medaka? In what arena? In what task? Medaka herself has already lost plenty of times, in 'games' or against inhuman opponents. Just a single victory over Medaka would not represent much, without anything on the line. Unless it managed to symbolize something greater or significant, there's no reason to call just any victory over Medaka the 'ultimate' one.
Yes, Medaka has lost before. BUT! They were against people who weren't Kumagawa. Thusly, any victory Kuma has over her - physical, moral, even romantic - would be good for him.
Lupus753 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 03:36   Link #13006
BladeEntity
Anything's Possible
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Am I the only one who thinks 2 Year old Medaka and Zen looks so adorable together.

As far as shipping goes doesn't really matter as long as its well written/developed
__________________
Nothing is Impossible
BladeEntity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 04:49   Link #13007
Kinali
Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
@Sol Falling

Well I was just stating how I saw both relationships once I consider everyone's thoughts. So to be honest I never saw Medaka being dependent on Zenkichi. I saw their first encounter as Zenkichi being the first person to step into her world. He gave her a purpose and proposed to him. He rejected but she still wanted to be with him because she was interested in him not dependant on him. She could do anything alone but why not spend it with someone you care for (someone important). Just like with Kumagawa that "dependancy" could just have happened later especially after being together for so many years. Yes their relationship is weird but I don't think it has nothing to do with "dependancy". At least not the root cause like in Kumagawa's situation.

Also Medaka has shown that she doesn't need Zen to accomplish something and to expect him to be there after she comes back does not make it bad. Heck, If I love someone I would want that person to be there when I came back. So if they really do love each other their love can be thought of as weird but not weak or fake and not the healthiest at the moment compared to Kumagawa's love. Now with Zen I somewhat agree with you so I would like to see more about him if he changes regardless if he ends up with Medaka or not.

I haven't read all of the forum comments but what made you try and get so much information about all this and prove people wrong? Was it because everybody was against the idea of Kumagawa x Medaka? Well in the end I cant really say I disagree or agree with you but I do consider it a good point of view. I guess I just happen to see it differently.

As for shipping even when Zen and Medaka were engaged I still gave Kumagawa 50% chance that he could still end up with Medaka. Just as I give Zenkichi 50% chance of getting back together. In the end who cares I just hope whatever direction he goes it gets better without removing Zen or Kumagawa like what they kind of did with Akune.

So I agree with BladeEntity that as long as its well written I'll be happy. So I'll just wait and see what happens.
Kinali is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 06:39   Link #13008
BladeEntity
Anything's Possible
*Author
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
On another note, this arc honestly has the feel of the final arc of Medaka it seems to be building up to a proper finale here. Of course anything can happen but I would say its a 75% chance of being the finale of Medaka box. Especially considering chapter 1 actually foreshadowed the bouquet of flowers farewell. So everything is coming full circle and coming to a close in my opinion.
__________________
Nothing is Impossible
BladeEntity is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 08:57   Link #13009
ccie20012
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
@BladeEntity
It's no trivial "bouquet of flowers". It's - bouquet toss. IMHO. Hint in name of the arc.
http://wiki.weddingbee.com/Bouquet_toss
ccie20012 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 09:48   Link #13010
DawnEmperor
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Somewhere
Okay, it makes some reasonable sense, and I think I was thinking similarly in that Medaka obviously symbolized "victory" as she's the opposite of Kumagawa. But I think it's worth analyzing their interests. Do these people love the person or their qualities? I remember Zenkichi emphasizing that "even if they made clones of Medaka, or people just like her, it would still be her that he would be in love with".

Is it the same with Kumagawa? Again, I feel I'm mostly harping on semantics, since of course I don't doubt their pivotal relationship but the fact that it would have to turn out such a way.

Last edited by DawnEmperor; 2013-03-24 at 10:10.
DawnEmperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 12:54   Link #13011
Last Carpet
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Anyone else think that Medaka will get 99 flowers from the students/guests, only to find that Zenkichi had the last flower along with the first
Last Carpet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 13:02   Link #13012
zigantz22
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Anyone else think that Medaka will get 99 flowers from the students/guests, only to find that Zenkichi had the last flower along with the first
Depending on his growth throughout this arc, that could be a pretty satisfying and realistic development, but I think the most likely direction for the story to take is for Ajimu to hold the final flower, which I'd prefer.

Last edited by zigantz22; 2013-03-24 at 13:29.
zigantz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-24, 23:05   Link #13013
AC-Phoenix
Detective
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Age: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by Last Carpet View Post
Anyone else think that Medaka will get 99 flowers from the students/guests, only to find that Zenkichi had the last flower along with the first
Anshin'in making her appearance is, depending if they make another arc or end the manga here, probably more realistic since she was pretty much announced by Ikihiko.
I like the Zenkichi variation too though, because he went down a bit too easy in my eyes lol
__________________
Those who forget about the past are condemned to repeat it - Santayana

Sidenote: I'm seemingly too dumb for my current keyboard, so if you see the same character twice in a row, when it doesn't belong there just ignore it.
AC-Phoenix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-25, 07:17   Link #13014
Wolfenstein
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: May 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
I like the Zenkichi variation too though, because he went down a bit too easy in my eyes lol
Well...it's not like he really intended to fight her seriously, he kinda said that he wanted to get hit as so to crush out the childish part of him that still wanted to cling to Medaka despite him wanting to grow up.
And, though he did become the most powerful character in the series for one single chapter to defeat the Fallen Hero, he's always been fairly weak without Contradictory Conjunction.

I don't know. Didn't really bother me.
__________________
Wolfenstein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-25, 07:21   Link #13015
K. Shiruto
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Won't surprise me if Zenkichi had the first flower and he also has the last.
K. Shiruto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-25, 07:52   Link #13016
omimon
Professional Hikkikomori
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
It is pretty much official that this is the final arc of the series. Nisio ends all his series the same way and that is a boss rush.
omimon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-25, 09:11   Link #13017
orangejuicetang
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Age: 23
then again, I thought the same for the Black Jet Wedding arc bc that seemed to be a total setup for boss rush as well
__________________
WORDS IN THE HEART CANNOT BE TAKEN

If a corrupt court will not behead an evil king, than the watchman should do it himself.
orangejuicetang is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-27, 07:39   Link #13018
K. Shiruto
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Where are ma spoilers.
K. Shiruto is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-27, 07:47   Link #13019
zigantz22
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurusu-Shirudo View Post
Where are ma spoilers.
Spoiler for chapter 188:
zigantz22 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2013-03-28, 19:27   Link #13020
K. Shiruto
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Here's the list of people Medaka must defeat.

Spoiler for spoiler:


Yet the interesting part is in the remaining participants.

Spoiler for spoiler:
K. Shiruto is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
action, comedy, harem, nishio, romance, shounen, student council

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 15:35.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.