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Old 2009-10-28, 18:38   Link #1361
Arturro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
That gives even further credence to a theory I have that Medaka has no real concept of abstract thought. Notice how when Nabeshima punches Unzen's sister the first time, Medaka says "I was never taught that". It seems like she can only take what she's learned, but using a normal human's ability to reason and imagine is beyond her.
I've stopped reading MB after chapter 22, reading (and posting) this topic is much more interesting .
I'm not sure if she is not able to comprehend abstract thoughts. She is a mathematical genius and mathematic without abstract thoughts doesn't exist. IMHO she, as well as rest of class 13 is suffering from ASPD, she is just trying to act like normal human.
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Old 2009-10-28, 18:39   Link #1362
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
If we both saw the same spoiler, then it's not exactly the case. Zenkichi does make an appearance in this chapter.
I just hope it's something significant and not his prerequisite one or two pages just to "show up".
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Old 2009-10-28, 20:41   Link #1363
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
He is her friend, he is in love with her. She doesn't love him, nor she is his friend. She doesn't understand what friendship is, she only observe what other people are doing, and is imitating them. She heard that friends spends lots of time together - so she and Zen spends lots of time together. She heard that friends play together - so she and Zen trained together. That trainings was a fake - he didn't know that she is able to crush steel in her bare hands - that means she never was sincere with him (IMHO this is one of proofs that MB wasn't meant at beggining as supernatural battle manga, but assume for now it was intentional). She heard that friends aren't shy around one another, so she strips when Zen is with her. She heard... and so on.
Medaka's imitation and altruistic behaviour only apply insofar as she is trying to form a connection with people. With regards to people like Zenkichi and Akune, they are already too attached to her so she has no reason to act in that manner. Medaka is not a robot, she is merely isolated by her abnormal powers. I don't think it's accurate to say Medaka isn't Zenkichi's friend at all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
That gives even further credence to a theory I have that Medaka has no real concept of abstract thought. Notice how when Nabeshima punches Unzen's sister the first time, Medaka says "I was never taught that". It seems like she can only take what she's learned, but using a normal human's ability to reason and imagine is beyond her.

For example, a person can adapt to various situations they've never been in before, like fixing a flat tire. Say, it's the first flat you've ever had, but you've never had to change one, so you're not quite sure how. However, common sense would say that you need to somehow lift the car up, remove the tire and put the new one on and through rational thought, you'd figure out how to use the jack and spare tire. Medaka would be at a complete loss, because she lacks the creative process and imagination that normal people have. She can only use what she's been taught because she's incapable of learning something on her own.

It makes me wonder if she has the ability to even dream.

Of course, there are a couple of things that refute this a bit earlier on, namely her grabbing all the balls during the swim team arc and donning the dog costume in an attempt to capture the dog. However, there's several examples that support this, as well:

First, there's what Arturro said about friendship and her stripping, etc.

Secondly, there's the "bike" incident. When she fights she takes the guy's bike, she grabs it and says "This is not how you properly ride a bike!" almost as if she didn't even realize he was going to use it as a weapon.

Third, there's Unzen. After she fought him, she didn't realize anything about her own "anger" issues (aka Perses mode) and other problems until he told her about them. Then she responded with "You taught me something good."

Fourth, there's Nabeshima punching Unzen's sister, as I already mentioned. Medaka says "I was never taught that" about Judo, so if it came down to it, she probably never would have thought of even using a fist. Basically, she needs to be taught something to make use of it, as she couldn't just figure out on her own that someone who's trained in Judo can punch as well. She had to be told about it.

Fifth, there's the talk between her and Nabeshima. She didn't do anything to fight back because "she had no reason to dodge". It took Nabeshima explaining it to her for her to learn to fight back before something bad happens.
This is what happens when you don't read the scanlations. Trying to portray Medaka as someone lacking fundamental human faculties is going just a little too far. There is an extent you shouldn't generalize beyond for your lack of empathy for a character, y'know.

Medaka's expression when she remarks "I was never taught that" about the judo punch clearly indicates that she is put off by the incompleteness of her Judo instruction. In the context of the conversation, Medaka is complaining that her training did not encompass punches despite their validity in the Judo rulebook. Medaka was one of only two individuals who recognized that punching was not a foul--far from someone who could not imagine it.
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Old 2009-10-28, 20:46   Link #1364
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I think it was more along the lines of Medaka being taught to play within the rules, so she isn't familiar with things that go outside of it. Seeing Nabeshima, being the former-judo captain, Medaka was forced to believe what Nabeshima did might be legal, since Medaka tries to see the good in people, and because it was an illegal strike, something she wasn't taught, the first thing that comes to her mind would have to be that it was probably something she wasn't taught, as opposed to it being an illegal strike.
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Old 2009-10-28, 23:53   Link #1365
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In a way, Medaka kind of is like Naruto's Rock Lee in the outlook that with hard work, one can overcome ANYTHING. She doesn't seem to notice that she also has an abnormal amount of talent though.
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Old 2009-10-29, 02:51   Link #1366
Sol Falling
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
I think it was more along the lines of Medaka being taught to play within the rules, so she isn't familiar with things that go outside of it. Seeing Nabeshima, being the former-judo captain, Medaka was forced to believe what Nabeshima did might be legal, since Medaka tries to see the good in people, and because it was an illegal strike, something she wasn't taught, the first thing that comes to her mind would have to be that it was probably something she wasn't taught, as opposed to it being an illegal strike.
Medaka being a red belt in Judo herself, as well as having extensive knowledge and experience with a great number of martial arts in general (going from her statement while fighting Unzen), I am pretty much forced to believe that no, Medaka knew the punch wasn't a foul from the start and is actually very familiar with Judo rules (her continued commentary with the swim team guy in Ch. 24 supports this). Medaka was correcting the peanut gallery who were going 'she's fouling already!' (because punching isn't really a foul), and complaining that her Judo instructors had a similarly closeminded attitude.
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Yuri Precure otaku manga: Shinozaki-san ki wo ota shika ni
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Old 2009-10-29, 07:14   Link #1367
Arturro
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@KLGChaos I've just read your post about Medaka from other forum. I'm really suprised how our thoughts about Medaka are similar. Please, believe me, I didn't copy/paste from you in my last post .
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Old 2009-10-29, 08:30   Link #1368
KLGChaos
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Saw a spoiler pic:

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-10-29, 09:55   Link #1369
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Spoiler for Medaka Box:
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Old 2009-10-29, 10:40   Link #1370
Arturro
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Spoiler for some speculations:
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Last edited by Arturro; 2009-10-29 at 13:01.
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Old 2009-10-29, 11:42   Link #1371
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Spoiler for This is too painful:

Last edited by Lummie; 2009-10-29 at 11:56. Reason: fixing grammatic mistake
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Old 2009-10-29, 11:47   Link #1372
shaolinx
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Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
Spoiler for some speculations:
Naw, he wasnt hated because hes the only rival. He was hated because of the way he is: i.e. arrogance, servant attitude, etc etc.

The new bishi doesn't seem to be as disgusting as the way Akune was portrayed, so this may turn out to be an interesting development. Like Kurosu, I am in for this new pairing, since we FINALLY saw a emotional reaction from Medaka(instead of the normal reversal).

Quote:
R.I.P Zenkichi - It's almost too painful.... The girl of your dreams turned into having a bro complex which probably will change this genre for 5th time. Just ignore the girl and hook up with another. Let her rot the the core with that goddamn new Diva that has appeared.

It's starting to piss me off, it looks so unreachable for the guy.
Zen never had a chance . Well I never saw any dynamics between the two of them anyways, so I threw that possiblity down the drain a long time ago. Now I am just hoping for anything other then the battlecrap we have right now.
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Old 2009-10-29, 11:54   Link #1373
Wrath88
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Question is: how much more abnormal is Medaka's brother?

I'm betting we'll see something like: Kurokami ____, did this and that while in school, etc....
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Old 2009-10-29, 18:15   Link #1374
KLGChaos
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So, who wants to take bets on Zenkichi getting killed off in the next few chapters while Medaka is off boinking her brother? He dies valiantly in an effort to protect and she won't even care. :P
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Old 2009-10-29, 21:05   Link #1375
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Spoiler for Medaka Box:
The picture of her blushing seriously freaks me out. Poor Zenkichi.

This ruins my days.
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Old 2009-10-29, 21:31   Link #1376
KLGChaos
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The picture of her blushing seriously freaks me out. Poor Zenkichi.

This ruins my days.
Tell me about it. :\ As one of the few people left who still had some glimmer of hope for Zen, this is possible the worst thing that could happen. NisiOisiN really knows how to turn off his readers, doesn't he?

I just can't believe they're adding another bishounen to the manga. What is this? A shoujo manga? I think it's in the wrong magazine.
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Old 2009-10-29, 21:38   Link #1377
Jourdal
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Wow...bro-con..didn't see that coming....

Gotta disagree KLG....there are a lot of jump manga with pretty characters (male characters) reborn, Bleach etc...
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Old 2009-10-29, 22:25   Link #1378
KLGChaos
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Wow...bro-con..didn't see that coming....

Gotta disagree KLG....there are a lot of jump manga with pretty characters (male characters) reborn, Bleach etc...
True, but they usually aren't part of a reverse harem.
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Old 2009-10-30, 04:59   Link #1379
Arturro
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Tell me about it. :\ As one of the few people left who still had some glimmer of hope for Zen, this is possible the worst thing that could happen. NisiOisiN really knows how to turn off his readers, doesn't he?
Face it Zen is not a protagonist of this story. Maybe he was at first, but since author decided to turn MB into supernatural battle manga there is no place for a common humans. Same Akune - he is just genius, so he is useless. Kikajima has some chances, because we don't know what she is, so author might turn her into a superhuman.
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Old 2009-10-30, 05:03   Link #1380
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Looks like her brother is already in SSJ3 mode without transforming.
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