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Old 2009-11-05, 13:47   Link #1461
Napoleon's Hat
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If the series is actually becomming a comedy again, than good. Hopefully Zen becomes useful again too.
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Old 2009-11-05, 14:11   Link #1462
Arturro
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Please don't have too high expectancies... Most probably Medaka or her brother told Zenkichi something depressing (for us - readers). Just like in every chapter where Zenkichi had a lots of screen time (chapter 25 - Medaka wanted to be kissed by some freak, chapter 13 - Medaka ignoring Zen and Kikajima "skinship" etc.). Zenkichi balls are in jar under Medaka desk, face it. IMHO his role in this "training arc" will be a punching bag, a narrator at best.
After last chapter I've lost any hope that this manga will surprise me in a positive way.
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Old 2009-11-05, 15:02   Link #1463
golthin
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Originally Posted by Napoleon's Hat View Post
If the series is actually becomming a comedy again, than good. Hopefully Zen becomes useful again too.
Seems like the mangaka going into battle mode was not working for them, so they are going back to what allowed the series to be serialized, COMEDY. I thought that the battle arc with the runt was boring.
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Old 2009-11-05, 16:13   Link #1464
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Chapter looks...fun actually...i look forward to the shift back to comedy...
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Old 2009-11-05, 18:20   Link #1465
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Originally Posted by Jourdal View Post
Chapter looks...fun actually...i look forward to the shift back to comedy...
I agree.
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Old 2009-11-06, 00:03   Link #1466
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yea comedy is good, but i hope there will also be some sort of romance, since that was also included in the one shot
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Old 2009-11-06, 01:13   Link #1467
shaolinx
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Originally Posted by Johnny View Post
After remembering something, her brother reminds me perfectly of Hirose from Onii-Chan Control. Of course Hirose doesn't look like a feminine version of Zen like her brother does...

Spoiler:
lol, I think I have to start reading that manga, it seems really funny and light hearted.

As for the new chap, it seems to be heading in the right direction. Well, I guess any other direction then the previously one is the "right" direction.
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Old 2009-11-06, 01:23   Link #1468
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Originally Posted by shaolinx View Post
lol, I think I have to start reading that manga, it seems really funny and light hearted.

As for the new chap, it seems to be heading in the right direction. Well, I guess any other direction then the previously one is the "right" direction.
Wait until you see chapter 3.
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Old 2009-11-06, 04:24   Link #1469
Shikimori Kazuki
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Originally Posted by mammothb View Post
yea comedy is good, but i hope there will also be some sort of romance, since that was also included in the one shot
something tells me, if they do something about the romance, it might be something to do with the box.

For example: Hitoyoshi writes a note and put it in a box "Medaka, please go out with me" , somewhere along those lines. Because it is "Medaka" and the "Box" related.
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Old 2009-11-06, 05:48   Link #1470
Arturro
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Since beggining of the serialization author was informing us, that Medaka doesn't love Zenkichi, he treats him, at best, like girls treat their favorite shoes. If in this chapter suddenly Medaka will start to show any romantic feeling for Zen it will make no sense at all. It's good for Zenkichi (who cares about that wimp anymore?) and it will be better, from readers point of view, than standard slave-master relationship, but it will be another example of bad script writting.
Of course, author might pull a cliche, where Medaka has two personalities, "normal" Medaka and "perses mode" Medaka. The second personality is in love with Zenkichi, but because it is dangerous to people, it must be supressed, and Zenkichi works as unlucky hero/limiter, who has to choose his love or happines of other people. Ehh, it's not going to happen, bad script writting is more possible than even some old cliches.
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Old 2009-11-06, 06:05   Link #1471
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As I wrote on mangafox-- people who hate the manga will most likely continue to hate it no matter what happens. Medaka could fall madly in love with Zen, lose her strength and he can become the strongest guy in the manga, with a deep plotline to boot, and they'd still say "It's not enough." Zen would still be considered a dog and the manga a bust.

As one of the people who was disappointed in the manga, I'm looking forward to the coming chapters because it finally looks like there may be some development. Yes, it may not be the earth-shattering event people are hoping for, but I am glad to see it picking up and how the manga seems to be taking at least some of the spotlight if Medaka and placing it on Zen. It may not be everything we've dreamed, but it IS a good direction for the manga to move in. I'm trying to keep an open mind, so I'm happy with that kind of development. It's a lot better than none at all. I even admitted that last chapter, I rushed to judgement based on
the RAWs and enjoyed the chapter more than I thought.

Of course, there will always be those who blindly bash or defend a manga. That's one of the laws of the universe, I believe. :P
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Old 2009-11-06, 07:06   Link #1472
Arturro
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
As I wrote on mangafox-- people who hate the manga will most likely continue to hate it no matter what happens. Medaka could fall madly in love with Zen, lose her strength and he can become the strongest guy in the manga, with a deep plotline to boot, and they'd still say "It's not enough."Zen would still be considered a dog and the manga a bust.
As I've written before, I'll be back to reading this manga, as soon as Zen will found his testicles and will be a protagonist of this story again. I started to dislike this manga not because it's a battle manga or supernatural manga, but because of sudden genere shifts and bad sript writting. Author in first 15 chapters introduced a lots of characters just to dump them imediatelly (too many characters in 15 chapters). In the same time he was showing us that Medaka is abnormal, he introduced "flask plan", he show us that Medaka doesn't love Zenkichi, and that Zenkichi treat himself as her dog. Too many things happened in just 25 short chapters, plot shifts was to sudden.
If author suddenly will start to show us that Medaka do love Zenkichi and that Zenkichi is not a castrated weakling it will be just ridiculous. It will contradict everything shown so far.
One thing at a time. If author wants to show us that there is mutual love between Medaka and Zenkichi, he should show us, slowly, that Medaka is starting do understand what love is and is slowly falling for him. Or he has to give a very good explanation why Medaka was faking that she doesn't love him.
Plot "development" where till chapter 25 Medaka wasn't interested at all in Zenkichi, and in chapter 26 she is in love with him will be retarded. Just retarded.

Also in last 10 chapters we had a gallery of freaks. It was clearly stated, that normal humans cannot be a threat to abnormals. They are just to weak. Zenkichi even after training shouldn't be anything other than punching bag for those abnormals. If author wants to "level up" Zen, he has to find a good explanation how he could became strong. He coud undergo an operation to became a freak himself, we could be informed that Zen himself is abnormal, but because of some (good) reasons his strenght was supressed. Or author could make Zenkichi usefull in other way, just like male protagonist in many times mentioned Zero In, Change 123 or Rosario to Vampire. If plot "development" will look like: Zenkichi is weak -> Zenkichi trains with Medaka brother -> Zenkichi fight on par with abnormals it will be also retarded.
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Old 2009-11-06, 08:09   Link #1473
KLGChaos
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Actually, Zen being a weak dog has never been stated in the manga, outside of him calling himself her "attack dog", which was more of a "don't mess with Medaka or I'll kick your ass" kind of thing. The whole weak, castrated part came from the dissatisfaction of the fans that his role had diminished so much for so long, myself included. The manga actually portrays him as pretty damn strong in the beginning-- Medaka has always just been stronger. Sadly, instead of focusing on Zen trying to be on par with her, it kept its focus on Medaka too long, which is what led to people getting upset. Now it's starting to change, so I'm happy about that.
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Old 2009-11-06, 08:45   Link #1474
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Physically strong does not mean he has balls. Here balls or spine is metaphorical - he has to learn to stand up for himself, even against Medaka but what we see up till now he always, ALWAYS is following Medaka even when he feels she is not right.

Thats what Arturro means by 'castrated'. He can become the strongest person on earth, beating Superman on regular day basis but if he is still a pushover of Medaka, then he is still a ball-less and spine-less dog.

Lets see other two, male heroes also known to be rather dominated by their females, Kyon (pushed around by Haruhi) and Shinji (pushed by Asuka). Both are pretty wimpy at times (specially Shinji) but both did stand up against both females. Sure Shinji did it only few times, but its still much more than Zen who so far never, not even a single time went against Medaka.

He does whine a little (specially in beginning) but he never actually does things his own way, but always Medaka's way. If he will start living his own life and making his own decisions then we can talk about spine.

Yeah in physical strength he would beat Shinji and probably Kyon too, but that does not make him a person with balls. So far he dutifully played a role of castrated pet and noting else. Now castrated pet can become stronger - hurray, but you can grow muscles as much as you like, but if you do not have an attitude to support that you will still remain a doormat.
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Old 2009-11-06, 08:57   Link #1475
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darknemo2000 View Post
He does whine a little (specially in beginning) but he never actually does things his own way, but always Medaka's way. If he will start living his own life and making his own decisions then we can talk about spine.

Yeah in physical strength he would beat Shinji and probably Kyon too, but that does not make him a person with balls. So far he dutifully played a role of castrated pet and noting else. Now castrated pet can become stronger - hurray, but you can grow muscles as much as you like, but if you do not have an attitude to support that you will still remain a doormat.
Not necessarily true, I mean he's just a doormat to Medaka. He probably wouldn't be pushed around by anyone else. By being tough to everyone but a significant someone (in this case being Medaka), by definition doesn't that technically make him a tsundere?

Whatever the case, he'd only be a doormat to Medaka, I don't see how this makes him a complete doormat or utter wuss as everyone is making him out to be. A complete doormat would be someone who is a wuss against everyone, a complete outcast to society. Zenkichi isn't that.
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Old 2009-11-06, 08:58   Link #1476
Arturro
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Actually, Zen being a weak dog has never been stated in the manga, outside of him calling himself her "attack dog", which was more of a "don't mess with Medaka or I'll kick your ass" kind of thing. The whole weak, castrated part came from the dissatisfaction of the fans that his role had diminished so much for so long, myself included. The manga actually portrays him as pretty damn strong in the beginning-- Medaka has always just been stronger. Sadly, instead of focusing on Zen trying to be on par with her, it kept its focus on Medaka too long, which is what led to people getting upset. Now it's starting to change, so I'm happy about that.
Weak and strong is always relative. Zenkichi is weak compared to any member of class 13. He is like well trained 7 year old 3 dan in karate kid, agains 30 years old man. It doesn't matter how well trained or determined he is, kid will always lose to average adult. Without a very good and convincig explanation Zen should always lose to any member of class 13. That means he is weak.

As of his mental weaknes - Darknemo2000 already explained that part.
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Old 2009-11-06, 09:57   Link #1477
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
Not necessarily true, I mean he's just a doormat to Medaka. He probably wouldn't be pushed around by anyone else. By being tough to everyone but a significant someone (in this case being Medaka), by definition doesn't that technically make him a tsundere?

Whatever the case, he'd only be a doormat to Medaka, I don't see how this makes him a complete doormat or utter wuss as everyone is making him out to be. A complete doormat would be someone who is a wuss against everyone, a complete outcast to society. Zenkichi isn't that.
No one is a complete doormat. No one. There always will be people who won't clean their feet into you. Zen is a doormat though. Maybe not complete, but again no one is a complete doormat. Even Shinji was not. What makes me to look at Shinji in better light is that he did oppose even if at first were pushed around, there was no one who would completely turn him into a such pathetic slave as Medaka turned Zen into.

I want to see Zen to grow up and start thinking with his own head, not just Medaka's. Then we can talk if there are some remains of spine in that mass of nothing called Zen.
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Old 2009-11-06, 10:21   Link #1478
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Well, there was that time back in chapter 2 where he opposed Medaka and attacked the delinquent guy on his own, when she wanted a peaceful resolution. Other than that, he really hasn't done much but follow her around. That's because soon after that, his role diminished greatly after Akune joined. I think that hurt his character more than anything. You can't have your main protagonist go MIA for most of the chapters you've written. Well, he may have been there in ink, but his character just stopped any development at that point, so it's sort of the same thing. I think that once he actually starts getting focused on more and gets the development he needs, he'll be a much better character.
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Old 2009-11-06, 21:47   Link #1479
aahhsin
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Wow... you guys really can't figure it out?

Zen is friend zoned. he will NEVER get anything from Medaka.

FRIEND ZONED
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Old 2009-11-08, 15:22   Link #1480
ZODDGUTS
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Guess who is in the bottom again.

Quote:
Issue 51:
2009-51 Bottom 5
Psyren
Shinigami
Wajima (The End)
Kuroko
Medaka
So Wajima was cut this time...
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