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Old 2009-11-26, 12:53   Link #1621
KLGChaos
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My biggest fear is of this arc becoming a repeat of the Unzen one-- with Medaka doing all the work while everyone else just stands around uselessly.
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Old 2009-11-26, 15:40   Link #1622
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@ Arturro - Itīs rather a good example on how manga CAN be written, considering as long as it gets both positive and negative feedback alike, it can be counted as a success, since the point of writing is to get a reaction on it, the only ones that are actually bad are the ones that are really haten by alot of people or the ones that donīt get any recognition at all.

Just stating the phrase - Hated by many, loved by few, but respected by all.
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Old 2009-11-26, 16:49   Link #1623
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Awesome cover I must say. I didn't think he'd go 'light' like that. Seems like he's starting to understand the shounen demographics better.
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Old 2009-11-26, 19:18   Link #1624
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaD36 View Post
@ Arturro - Itīs rather a good example on how manga CAN be written, considering as long as it gets both positive and negative feedback alike, it can be counted as a success, since the point of writing is to get a reaction on it, the only ones that are actually bad are the ones that are really haten by alot of people or the ones that donīt get any recognition at all.

Just stating the phrase - Hated by many, loved by few, but respected by all.
Medaka box is almost always ranked as one of last 5 mangas in WSJ. Hardly a success.

IMHO Nisioisin doesn't know how to write a shounen story. Shounen story must have a male (sometimes female is acceptable) protagonist easy for readers to relate to, or to admire. Second it need a lots of action, some comedy, a little bit of ecchi is also good. Romance might be mixed, not to much, unless its a unrequited love of male protagonist.

When series started there was a male protagonist to whom readers were able to relate, as well as some romance, lots of comedy and some ecchines. It was hinted that Zenkichi love is unrequited, but most readers probably ignored them. It lacked action a lot, so some people were complaining, but first chapters of Medaka Box has good rankings. Also MB was able to gain a lots of readers much older than standard shounen publicity. IMHO because it was giving a lots of seinen or even smut vibes, and had some almost original elements.

After a few chapters author centered story around Medaka. Not around her character development, because there was no development at all, but how splendid and powerful she is. At the same time it started to be obvious that Zen love is unrequited, and that he is so insecure so he is looking pathetic. I don't know why he done it, probably to show how wast difference is between Zenkichi and Medaka and how much both of them will have to grow and develop to be together. Unfortunately it was a failure, because readers (shounen or not) have lost any character they could relate to, so MB ranking dropped really low.

Maybe he wanted to start showing Zenkichi and Medaka development, but he hasn't even enough time to introduce 5th member of student council. I suppose Japanese readers were complaining about MB lack of plot on Internet forums just as we were. IMHO when that complains were backed by bad ratings, author pulled (maybe by editor request) plot change (at best he introduced abnormals much earlier than he intended at first), and introduced most popular shounen plot - battle with supernatural powers. For a moment it even worked, introduction of action improved MB rankings, but soon MB became dead last manga in rankings. Why? Because introduction of abnormals made all characters introduced so far obsolete, especially those already marked as normals or specials. IMO author will soon recycle as many characters as possible and will reveal any not marked yet character as abnormal, Shiranui as first.

Abnormals made former male protagonist useless and ripped Zenkichi from protagonist role. So now there is no character readers could relate to, and there is unrequited love. In other words two elements shonen readers really dislike, seinen and mature readers also aren't too fond of those 2 elements.

So now author is keeping Zenkichi as a pathetic wimpy weakling, what is irritating for shounen readers, as well as he is keeping ridiculous story about fighting freaks, not appealing for older readers.
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Old 2009-11-27, 11:58   Link #1625
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What the treasurer did that's so emphasized?

Until translation is out I can't give my overall thoughts.
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Old 2009-11-27, 12:06   Link #1626
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@Arturro, i couldn't have said it any better
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Old 2009-11-27, 12:34   Link #1627
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
with Medaka doing all the work while everyone else just stands around uselessly.
Hopefully we don't get all that, because it seems Kikaijima did something productive in chapter 29. I suppose you can see her as being a support as opposed to being productive to the actual outcome of any of the fights. Akune will most likely be fodder or participate in a cliche team up with Zenkichi against another person, which will show how they overcome their dislike for each other to help out Medaka.

Last edited by Kurosu; 2009-11-27 at 15:39.
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Old 2009-11-27, 15:26   Link #1628
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arturro View Post
IMHO Nisioisin doesn't know how to write a shounen story. Shounen story must have a male (sometimes female is acceptable) protagonist easy for readers to relate to, or to admire. Second it need a lots of action, some comedy, a little bit of ecchi is also good. Romance might be mixed, not to much, unless its a unrequited love of male protagonist.
Sounds like his 12 novel long series Katanagatari which comes out in Jan in OVA format. It's also considered his worst novel series (Zaregoto series >> Bakemonogatari series >>>>> Katanagatari series) but hey I guess that's what happens when he produces something generic like.
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Old 2009-11-27, 15:57   Link #1629
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They've been bringing back the comedy in the last few chapters, so maybe Medaka will find a way to resolve this without fighting. I can see her somehow convincing the other members of class 13 to go along with her.
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Old 2009-11-27, 21:53   Link #1630
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Are the old dude and the loli past that giant door that only abnormals are supposed to be able to get through? >_>
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Old 2009-11-28, 03:20   Link #1631
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Originally Posted by Kurosu View Post
Hopefully we don't get all that, because it seems Kikaijima did something productive in chapter 29. I suppose you can see her as being a support as opposed to being productive to the actual outcome of any of the fights. Akune will most likely be fodder or participate in a cliche team up with Zenkichi against another person, which will show how they overcome their dislike for each other to help out Medaka.
I really wouldn't want to see the team up. It always makes the people who do team up seem weak. This may be the case here, but I think we've had enough of driving home the point that Zen is weak. I'm just wondering if Nishio is trying to get us to hate Zen or if he doesn't realize just how bad the character looks right now.

I think it's made even worse by the fact that after finally doing something cool, he instantly reverts to being the loser of the series. It's like he was giving us some hope that Zenkichi was finally starting to develop and that he'd be more important to the story, but then quickly snatched it away in the next two chapters.
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Old 2009-11-28, 09:14   Link #1632
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@ Arturro, actually i just pointed out that getting feedback (constructive oneīs are more welcomed) is better than getting no feedback at all. As long as it triggers a reaction in audiences itīs a success, it gets read by h8ers and lovers alike, or does it not? If certain ppl would hate it that much, they wouldnīt bother with it and just leave the entire matter behind.
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Old 2009-11-28, 10:59   Link #1633
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeaD36 View Post
@ Arturro, actually i just pointed out that getting feedback (constructive oneīs are more welcomed) is better than getting no feedback at all. As long as it triggers a reaction in audiences itīs a success, it gets read by h8ers and lovers alike, or does it not? If certain ppl would hate it that much, they wouldnīt bother with it and just leave the entire matter behind.
Lets make few things clear, first.

The manga is in magazine... M.A.G.A.Z.I.N.E

Now what does it mean? It means that many of the readers are not reading it for the Medaka at all, and their 'interest' or reaction as you call is not an interest or reaction at all. In fact it is the opposite.

They vote not which manga is the worst, but the best - meaning that Medaka has least interested poeple in it compared to other mangas, since it hits rock bottom in ratings often enough, specially when your usually bottom dwellers got wiped recently.

It is not the mater of hatred, but the mater of disinterest in the first place.

The hater guys hate it because they feel like crap is occupying the space of magazine.

But they do not buy it to hate it. They buy it for other manga's and just express their dissatisfaction in this particular manga taking up the space for some other, probably better manga, but in many cases they do not show any interest whatsoever.

Understand this, what Medaka manga fights against is not hatred, but disinterest and its disinterest is what pushes it to the rock bottom rather than hatred. There are much more of those who just are not interested in it rather than hate it.

How can you call it a success?

No one is buying it to express their hatred, they buy it for One Piece or other manga's and treat Medaka as a waste product.

They are leaving the whole matter behind. What we here usually call dislike is actually an 'disinterest'.

They cannot not to read it simply because they are in a way 'forced' to read it as they buy the magazine (for one and the other series) but as a rule try reading it all unless they are rather picky to begin with.
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Old 2009-11-28, 11:45   Link #1634
DJ Trouble
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. . . I seriously doubt any of the haters here are buying the magazine and reading it.

Aren't the collected volumes actually doing decent? If they are, then yes, you can call this manga a success.

It should also be noted that because manga first appear in a magazine, no one buys the magazine for any particular story. Even if someone just wanted one piece, bleach, and naruto, and didn't care about any of the other stories, you'd just read it at the magazine rack and then go about the rest of your day. Ignoring fanatics and collectors, as they're a very small minority, the reason you'd buy the magazine is precisely because it's a collection of lots of stories. Even if every story doesn't completely live up to your standards, if you'd actually bother to read it, then it's a selling point for the manga and does affect whether you'd buy the magazine or not.

Anyway, Medaka is wearing two armbands with her "disguise". >_> Ignoring how counterproductive that seems, it makes me wonder if the remaining position will be filled anytime soon.
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Old 2009-11-28, 11:56   Link #1635
Westlo
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Aren't the collected volumes actually doing decent? If they are, then yes, you can call this manga a success.
Only one volume has been released, it sold out pretty much straight away and they issued a reprint for mid November.. the flipside is that they only printed around 20,000-25,000 copies in the initial run.. so even though it sold out it didn't sell a great number.



Vol 2 comes out in December, if it doesn't crack the top 30 and sell over 30,000 copies (assuming they print enough in the first place lol) in week 1 that's pretty much the final nail in the coffin. TOC position doesn't matter if you sell enough manga volumes... D.Gray Man never did stellar in the TOC for WSJ due to it probably being a bit over the target audience (Jump Square is better suited for it) but it was one of the best selling manga titles in WSJ. Kuroko has been doing shit in the TOC rankings and it looks like vol 5 is going to sell over 100,000 in it's opening week if it keeps on improving.
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Old 2009-11-28, 12:08   Link #1636
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Is it just me or is Zen not even on the cover of Volume 2? Geez... this is basically Nishio telling us that he'll always be some second string nobody. He should just kill off the character and get it over with. Medaka has overshadowed this manga so much, I really don't think there's any hope for it.
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Old 2009-11-28, 12:25   Link #1637
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Is it just me or is Zen not even on the cover of Volume 2? Geez... this is basically Nishio telling us that he'll always be some second string nobody. He should just kill off the character and get it over with. Medaka has overshadowed this manga so much, I really don't think there's any hope for it.
Most probably vol 2 will cover swimming arc, where Zen was almost nonexistent, so don't be surprised that Kikajima and 2 other guys from swimming team are on cover.

@LeaD36 - a manga is a success when it's sells well. Considering vol. 1 covering first chapters, liked even by MB "haters" sold not so well, it's not a success. If vol. 2 sales will be bad, then (most probably) it's the end of Medaka Box. In other words expect MB in next 8-10 chapters.

I'm a collector, so if a manga I like is available in Polish/English and official translation is decent (sometimes official translations are much worse than scanlations), I'm buying it. At first MB was on my list "to buy", but isn't here anymore. Even if it will become much better soon, I doubt I'll buy it anyway. I'm wondering if anyone reading this topic is going to buy this manga when available in English/other language...
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Old 2009-11-28, 12:28   Link #1638
Westlo
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Medaka Box Vol 1 was supply constrained, that shouldn't be an issue for vol 2, if it doesn't sell well with vol 2 than it's officially a flop. Psyren and Kuroko also didn't sell over 30k with vol 1 and Psyren has sold 67k in it's first week 2 volumes back and Kuroko did 80k+ last volume. Some people thought Beezlebub's 50k opening week for volume 1 was a flop.. these people need to get a clue.

Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
Is it just me or is Zen not even on the cover of Volume 2? Geez... this is basically Nishio telling us that he'll always be some second string nobody. He should just kill off the character and get it over with. Medaka has overshadowed this manga so much, I really don't think there's any hope for it.
And what did Zen do during volume 2's events to get on the cover anyway? The main focus of those chapters will be Medaka and the swimming arc which the cover shows. Medaka is the manga, she's the face of it on the TOC, it's named after her and we all know who dominates the manga itself. The swimming arc is the biggest part of vol 2, really the cover is a no brainer.
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Old 2009-11-28, 13:16   Link #1639
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJ Trouble View Post
Even if every story doesn't completely live up to your standards, if you'd actually bother to read it, then it's a selling point for the manga and does affect whether you'd buy the magazine or not.
No one can tell the exact number of the readers who read all of the manga's and who just certain parts, but ratings help to see which of the series contribute the most to the popularity of magazine and which the least, and Medaka's contribution so far have been pretty pathetic.
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Old 2009-11-29, 01:47   Link #1640
KLGChaos
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And what did Zen do during volume 2's events to get on the cover anyway? The main focus of those chapters will be Medaka and the swimming arc which the cover shows. Medaka is the manga, she's the face of it on the TOC, it's named after her and we all know who dominates the manga itself. The swimming arc is the biggest part of vol 2, really the cover is a no brainer.
That's just the point. Medaka IS the manga. You can't have one character support a manga on its own-- you need a good support cast to back it up. Medaka Box's support cast consists of a gallery of one dimensional people who can come and go without people realizing they were ever there, and that includes Zenkichi. It also doesn't help that Medaka herself is either disliked or people are indifferent to her. If people can't get behind the main protagonist, the series won't go anywhere. Notice how whenever there's a chapter that completely about Medaka, the manga is always dead last in the rankings?

It pulled up a few slots this week (where Nabeshima came in), but it's still in the bottom five.
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