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View Poll Results: Do you think physical attractiveness greatly impact a person's life?
Yes. 82 68.91%
No. 5 4.20%
Maybe. 23 19.33%
We choose our on destiny, we can do whatever we want no matter what! 9 7.56%
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Old 2009-06-04, 14:15   Link #41
blue skies
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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
You said, that it does not affect you and yet it does. How can i not understand it? XD
I think what Kusa-San was trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong?) is that physical attractiveness is a plus, but not a necessity. It's just your appearance, and it doesn't define who you are as a person. If someone is average-looking and intelligent, nice, fun, interesting, can make me laugh, and just has that irresistible something that I can't put my finger on, I'm going to be attracted to them and not give a damn that they aren't the hottest thing in the solar system. If a person is a total douche, I'm not going to be attracted to them even if they're hotter than the sun.

As to whether or not it makes a difference in life, it certainly can't hurt. But I seem to see just as many successful people with average looks as successful attractive people. It's a nice thing to have, but by no means does it guarantee happiness in life.
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Last edited by blue skies; 2009-06-04 at 14:40. Reason: apparently i can't spell today
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Old 2009-06-04, 14:41   Link #42
Lolipopo
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Originally Posted by blue skies View Post
I think what Kusa-San was trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong?) is that physical attractiveness is a plus, but not a necessity. It's just your appearance, and it doesn't define who you are as a person. If someone is average-looking and intelligent, nice, fun, interesting, can make me laugh, and has just that irresistible something that I can't put my finger on, I'm going to be attracted to them and not give a damn that they aren't the hottest thing in the solar system. If a person is a total douche, I'm not going to be attracted to them even if they're hotter than the sun.

As to whether or not it makes a difference in life, it certainly can't hurt. But I seem to see just as many successful people with average looks as successful attractive people. It's a nice thing to have, but by no means does it guarantee happiness in life.
"Personnaly, I'm not someone who judge other people on their appearance but I will not deny that I prefer good looking people over bad looking one and I think it's the same for everyone."

That is, an in-direct, subconscious judgment though. When you say, that alright, you do not judge someone, but you would prefer that someone over someone else, that is in-direct one. Sorry, to me that is a contradiction. And a lot of people do this, and i am not sure they get that it is honestly an in-direct judgment. Might not be what they aim for, but still it is.
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Old 2009-06-04, 14:53   Link #43
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Unfortunately lots of people are judged solely on the way they look. and yes, beautiful (for the most part) have it way easier than a aesthetically unpleasing person... luckily people do exist that can see beyond the Flesh and into someones personality.
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Old 2009-06-04, 15:09   Link #44
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Of course... the goal for most is to find some one who appeals to them physically.. and with the characteristics that are to their liking.

When it comes down to it.. it's usually sacrificing one for the other when the top can't be found.. then the person will settle for the next best thing.

People have a hard time.. openly admitting that they want a physically attractive partner.. so they'll say something like.. as long as they make me happy.

it's true in a way.. you never know what'll make you happy, it's a big ocean
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Old 2009-06-04, 15:38   Link #45
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Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
"Personnaly, I'm not someone who judge other people on their appearance but I will not deny that I prefer good looking people over bad looking one and I think it's the same for everyone."

That is, an in-direct, subconscious judgment though. When you say, that alright, you do not judge someone, but you would prefer that someone over someone else, that is in-direct one. Sorry, to me that is a contradiction. And a lot of people do this, and i am not sure they get that it is honestly an in-direct judgment. Might not be what they aim for, but still it is.
I think that's more Prejudice vs Discrimination.

Maybe this analogy will fail, but here goes:

Let's assume Counter Strike 1.7 is identical in features and gameplay to Counter Strike: Source. (They vary a tiny bit, but not in this analogy)

If you were then presented screenshots of them and asked to say which has better gameplay, you would say "I am unable to make a decision like that based on looks alone". That's the part of not judging people by looks.

But then you are asked which would you prefer to play? You might say that you prefer the game with better graphics, which happens to be CS:S.

You are therefore merely stating your preference in looks, but this doesn't mean that you are passing judgment on the other person's personality (which would be the gameplay in the analogy). The only judgement you are passing is the fact they aren't as pretty, which is a personal opinion that can't really be denied. You aren't judging the person to be of any less worth, but merely that if you're pretty, then hey, that's a bonus... but I won't hold anything against you if you're not.
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Old 2009-06-04, 15:42   Link #46
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Originally Posted by Kusa-San View Post
Yep and it's really really something that bug me. The society impose you a norm and if you don't want to fit this norm then you're excluded of this society. People will think that you're strange etc...That's why I think that people who go against this kind of presure are people who are mentally strong. But sadly, there will be always prejudice in this world.
You can't be really excluded, because there'll always be some people who respect you the way you are.

What I was mainly talking about is what i saw "around me", so I was not generalizing. What I just said is that many people I knew/know expect the good looking people to be and act a certain way, and it can be annoying.

I erased the last line of my previous post because I thought it might be mean to say it. I said that despite what I said, it's still better to be good looking than ugly. Mainly because a good looking person has less to no difficulties to be pleased by her/his own body, while I guess it could be less easy for somebody who really doesn't look good.

I guess a person can become very depressive if he/she has difficulties to accept her/his own look.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Lolipopo View Post
Hmmm, i think you are confusing stereotyping with people thinking of highly of you. And if you do not meet those high standards, then it can get annoying for someone and put him on a place, where he might not want to be. But this does not apply much to physical apperanace. It applies more to qualites and charisma one has.
I should have not used the term "norms", but only stereotypes. And i was not talking about meeting any standards, but about people how some people i know/knew think and act towards a good looking person.

Now, I should have added that I don't generalize my example to everyone.

Quote:
People stick to their own kind.
Not really in term of look. At least around me, I know some good looking persons who have all sorts of friends, not only people as pretty as them. Hopefully.

Last edited by Narona; 2009-06-04 at 15:54.
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Old 2009-06-04, 15:47   Link #47
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Yep that's exactly what I mean blue skies and Woopzila. Thanks
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Old 2009-06-04, 15:51   Link #48
Lolipopo
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Originally Posted by Woopzilla View Post
I think that's more Prejudice vs Discrimination.

Maybe this analogy will fail, but here goes:

Let's assume Counter Strike 1.7 is identical in features and gameplay to Counter Strike: Source. (They vary a tiny bit, but not in this analogy)

If you were then presented screenshots of them and asked to say which has better gameplay, you would say "I am unable to make a decision like that based on looks alone". That's the part of not judging people by looks.

But then you are asked which would you prefer to play? You might say that you prefer the game with better graphics, which happens to be CS:S.

You are therefore merely stating your preference in looks, but this doesn't mean that you are passing judgment on the other person's personality (which would be the gameplay in the analogy). The only judgement you are passing is the fact they aren't as pretty, which is a personal opinion that can't really be denied. You aren't judging the person to be of any less worth, but merely that if you're pretty, then hey, that's a bonus... but I won't hold anything against you if you're not.
Why do you compare total different things? It is like this, basically.: You do not judge ugly people saying "ew, that is ugly" but when it comes down to choose one, who you might talk to and getting to meet them, you will prefer the good looking one. This is what was being said basically. If this is not in-direct judgment, then honestly, i do not know what it is.

Narona, you are always using examples that surrounds your real life, you should look outside the box, i made a broad generalization, that does not apply of course 100% to what actually happens, but is getting way more than 50%. If i were to point out, 2-3 examples from my real life, it would not even get to 1%.
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Old 2009-06-04, 15:54   Link #49
Narona
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Originally Posted by blue skies View Post
I think what Kusa-San was trying to say (correct me if I'm wrong?) is that physical attractiveness is a plus, but not a necessity. It's just your appearance, and it doesn't define who you are as a person. If someone is average-looking and intelligent, nice, fun, interesting, can make me laugh, and just has that irresistible something that I can't put my finger on, I'm going to be attracted to them and not give a damn that they aren't the hottest thing in the solar system. If a person is a total douche, I'm not going to be attracted to them even if they're hotter than the sun.
Since I talked about that with him in private, I think you're not far from what he "tried" to explain xD

Anyway, it works both way. For example, some men don't expect a girl who like new thecnologies and PC to be good looking. While some men expect the pretty girls to be hot and very interested in sexual intercourses.

Let's talking about an example that a lot of people know about. I remember at school when I was watching some guys (and some girls too) talking about Adriana Lima who said two/one years ago that she was still a virgin. Do you think that lots of guys believed that? "No it can't be! She's so pretty and famous. That's not possible. It's a lie. Obviously." /stereotype
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:07   Link #50
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Since I talked about that with him in private, I think you're not far from what he "tried" to explain xD

Anyway, it works both way. For example, some men don't expect a girl who like new thecnologies and PC to be good looking. While some men expect the pretty girls to be hot and very interested in sexual intercourses.

Let's talking about an example that a lot of people know about. I remember at school when I was watching some guys (and some girls too) talking about Adriana Lima who said two/one years ago that she was still a virgin. Do you think that lots of guys believed that? "No it can't be! She's so pretty and famous. That's not possible. It's a lie. Obviously." /stereotype
I am sorry, we do not really dig private conversations, would he mind posting it here as well, so i can "get" it too? It is not really courteous to say in public "he talked in private and you did got it, while the other person did not".
Anyway, yeah, what you did mention is 70% stereotyping. So some people that do not think outside the box, said those things. Would Andriana Lima care about that? She would not give a rat's ass, because those people she does not know and she could care less to know them. And this is why i say it is up to the "good-looking" person, to have a "normal life" without disadvantages. People will always find things to say, for good, mediocre and bad looking people. Ignore them and you are ok.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:17   Link #51
Kusa-San
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Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Since I talked about that with him in private, I think you're not far from what he "tried" to explain xD
Yep and for me it's not difficult to understand at all :/ .

Quote:
Anyway, it works both way. For example, some men don't expect a girl who like new thecnologies and PC to be good looking. While some men expect the pretty girls to be hot and very interested in sexual intercourses.
It's the same about video games. A girl who plays and loves video games ---> A girl who is not pretty.

Quote:
Let's talking about an example that a lot of people know about. I remember at school when I was watching some guys (and some girls too) talking about Adriana Lima who said two/one years ago that she was still a virgin. Do you think that lots of guys believed that? "No it can't be! She's so pretty and famous. That's not possible. It's a lie. Obviously." /stereotype
Yep it's a good example too. People think that since she is beautiful, Adrinna Lima can have all the guy she wants. They don't think that she wants to wait for the right one because it's not something that, in your society, people do very often. The norm (and yes I'm talking about "norm") it's that a beautiful girl has many sexual experience because she can have every man she wants.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:24   Link #52
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Anyway, it works both way. For example, some men don't expect a girl who like new thecnologies and PC to be good looking. While some men expect the pretty girls to be hot and very interested in sexual intercourses.
Lol, who says that? All the girls are pretty much dealing with internet nowadays, this is a fail point. And if i get to use myself as an example (since it is a trend around here} i am pretty sure, all the boys that flirt me, could care less if i deal with pc or technologies to categorize me.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:26   Link #53
Narona
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It's the same about video games. A girl who plays and loves video games ---> A girl who is not pretty.
It changed a edit: lot over the years, fortunately xD

France is the second/third biggest videogames market in europe (behind the UK and ahead of Germany). Now lots of Girls play videogames so I hope this stereotype will disappear for good ^o^

Quote:
Yep it's a good example too. People think that since she is beautiful, Adrinna Lima can have all the guy she wants.
About Adriana, I was just giving an example, because the guys I was talking about react the same way towards the pretty girls they know IRL. And it can be annoying.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:29   Link #54
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About Adriana, I was just giving an example, because the guys I was talking about react the same way towards the pretty girls they know IRL. And it can be annoying.
Ah, there are similar Adrianas Limas in my town and i did not know? Wow, i have a lot of time to go to uni. XD
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:38   Link #55
Kusa-San
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About Adriana, I was just giving an example, because the guys I was talking about react the same way towards the pretty girls they know IRL. And it can be annoying.
Yes and I think it's the same evreywhere. I'm not saying that a girl who is not in the society norm will be alone because there will always be some good people who don't care about this kind of prejudice and all but she will certainly face some difficult moment in her life because of that. I think that generally people fit the society norm (I'm talking about people who don't like this norm) because they don't have enough will "to fight" against it. That's why I think that we need to have a strong will to be able to overcome this norm.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:44   Link #56
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Yes and I think it's the same evreywhere. I'm not saying that a girl who is not in the society norm will be alone because there will always be some good people who don't care about this kind of prejudice and all but she will certainly face some difficult moment in her life because of that. I think that generally people fit the society norm (I'm talking about people who don't like this norm) because they don't have enough will "to fight" against it. That's why I think that we need to have a strong will to be able to overcome this norm.
Why would i fight against it for example? Just because i am pretty do i have to prove that i am not looking for 843043 boyfriends a month? No. If people want to think that i fit the society stereotyping, they can feel free to. Those people that will think that, are people that i will never meet anyway. The opinion that matters, is of the people you value. And they know who you really are.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:48   Link #57
Narona
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Yes and I think it's the same evreywhere. I'm not saying that a girl who is not in the society norm will be alone because there will always be some good people who don't care about this kind of prejudice and all but she will certainly face some difficult moment in her life because of that. I think that generally people fit the society norm (I'm talking about people who don't like this norm) because they don't have enough will "to fight" against it. That's why I think that we need to have a strong will to be able to overcome this norm.
No that's not that.

Your POV is: "if a girl acts like most girls, then she doesn't have any will power". Am I right?

That was not what I am saying. I was talking about examples when you act differently than expected and face some comments that could irritate you. But if you fits the stereotypes and are happy, then there's not any will power problem if you don't force yourself.
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Old 2009-06-04, 16:54   Link #58
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No that's not that.

Your POV is: "if a girl acts like most girls, then she doesn't have any will power". Am I right?
No it's not that. A girl who don't like to be like that but is like that because she don't want to be isolated is a girl who has not a strong will. But a girl who is happy like that has (maybe) a strong will.

Quote:
That was not what I am saying. I was talking about examples when you're act differently than expected and face some comments that could irritate you. But if you fits the stereotypes and are happy, then there's no problem of will power if you don't force yourself.
Yep we're agree then
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Old 2009-06-04, 17:09   Link #59
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Why do you compare total different things? It is like this, basically.: You do not judge ugly people saying "ew, that is ugly" but when it comes down to choose one, who you might talk to and getting to meet them, you will prefer the good looking one. This is what was being said basically. If this is not in-direct judgment, then honestly, i do not know what it is.
I think it's just a mix up of terms you want to use to describe it. It would be discrimination to pick a person based on looks, not prejudice. There's no judgment being made on anything. Beauty is a thing that can be pretty much be presented as a fact (to some extent). It's discriminate.

A judgement would be forming negative (or positive) opinions about someone's behaviour/personality based on their looks. You don't need to do this in order to prefer someone for a visible trait.

Being discriminate doesn't mean that you are also prejudice, hence his sentence doesn't contradict itself.
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Old 2009-06-04, 17:11   Link #60
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I think it's just a mix up of terms you want to use to describe it. It would be discrimination to pick a person based on looks, not prejudice. There's no judgment being made on anything. Beauty is a thing that can be pretty much be presented as a fact (to some extent). It's discriminate.

A judgement would be forming negative (or positive) opinions about someone's behaviour/personality based on their looks. You don't need to do this in order to prefer someone for a visible trait.

Being discriminate doesn't mean that you are also prejudice, hence his sentence doesn't contradict itself.
Ah, if it is just a matter of strictly defining words, then i give up. My point is, that when someone prefers good looking people over bad looking people as it was stated, then you cannot really say before "i do not mind appearance." Because you do mind appearance when later in the sentence you pretty much state this. But anyway, i am done with it. I am not gonna play freedictionary.com anymore.
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