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Old 2010-11-06, 13:01   Link #421
Sassarai
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If you mean FFXI when it was first launch in NA then I disagree. FFXIV is no where near the NA FFXI release. If you mean the jp release, then I argue that S.E had plenty of time and experience to get it right the second time around and standards are higher now.

Last edited by Sassarai; 2010-11-06 at 13:13.
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Old 2010-11-06, 13:43   Link #422
synaesthetic
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The reason it's unpopular is because it's too much like FFXI.

Before you all tar and feather me, hear me out.

FFXI is a very mature MMORPG. It has existed for eight years. Most of the worst block/crash/gamebreaking bugs have been long since fixed, and those bugs and missing features that remain are things the player base has grown accustomed to.

The players of FFXI are used to FFXI.

But now FFXIV comes out, and it's full of bugs, bad UI decisions, poor interface and clunky game mechanics. This would be more forgivable if the game could stand on its own as something new and original, but it's basically FFXI Redux.

Those players coming off of Blizzard's incredibly polished cash cow World of Warcraft--and this is what Blizzard does well, take tired old ideas and buff them to a blindingly radiant shine--are disappointed at how juvenile and primitive the UI, interface, controls and gameplay mechanics of FFXIV are. (Especially, especially, especially because they're PC users.)

Those players coming off of FFXI are conflicted, because it's FFXIWITHBETTERGRAPHICS! ... AND MORE BUGS! So they're frustrated and impatient, because FFXI already exists in a vastly less buggy state! Because FFXIV is too much like its predecessor, FFXI players are not willing to spend time playing "more of the same" with a huge increase in brokenness, bugs, crashes, blocks, NO FUCKING AUTOATTACK... and other braindead design decisions. Way too much of a tradeoff just for shinier graphics and a less-intuitive class system.

And why would they be, when they have basically the same goddamned game, but with loads more content (even if they've already completed most of it, there's still more in FFXI than its successor!) and far less crippling bugs, design decisions and whatnot.

If FFXIV was not FFXIV, but an unrelated, new, original IP that Square-Enix created that had nothing whatsoever to do with FFXI or Final Fantasy in general, I think people would be a bit more tolerant of the problems (the Final Fantasy series has such a reputation for being extremely well-made titles), especially the former FFXI players. (If all of that was true and it was still in beta, I think everyone would be more tolerant of the problems it has.)

Thems be my two bits.
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Old 2010-11-06, 14:29   Link #423
SaintessHeart
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The real thing is that this isn't a game, it is a CHORE to play.

Back in multi-skill games like Runescape, I always have a philosophy of DIY - making my own stuff, and I am not the only player who thinks like that.

Subsequently, it appears that you HAVE to be 10 levels below the items' optimal rank to repair it, a r29 Tracker's Tunic requires 19 Weaving, and that is a fucking close to 150k worth of skill points to be earned. Each craft will only give you 200-400 points.

I got these stats not just from a grindfest, but a COMPLICATED one. See the reason why players are annoyed?
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Old 2010-11-06, 15:35   Link #424
synaesthetic
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All MMORPGs are a chore to play, otherwise they wouldn't be financially successful. The secret (which Blizzard mastered, yet other companies have thus far failed to do) is to cover up the sloggy grind with enough carrots-on-sticks or shiny giant flaming shoulderpads to keep dumb people from realizing that they're spending 11 hours a day on something that nobody will even give a shit about in twenty years.
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Old 2010-11-06, 19:43   Link #425
gummybear
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The secret
not true. MMO such as EA's WH put not only carrots but giant frut baskets, but yet it is still not enough driving force to make their players feel that they are being rewarded. It had a lot to do with the interaction experience between players rather than the npc. You can make awesome games like FFXII into a MMO, but it would still bomb if they can't bring the players to have fun amoung themselves. Think of simple MMO like TF2, why is it that they are so popular? Simple, because people have fun interacting with each other. Don't believe me? Try to play TF2 with sound off and mic off for an hour, you will fall asleep after 30 min; but it is the trush talks and the jokes exchange amoung the players in the game that's keeping the "fun" alive. This is also why Blizzard will lead to their own down fall if they keep up with the cyber policing. Their games aren't that fun, hell I got bored of WoW game play after a month, it's purely the shit we talk about in the guilds or the /b/ talks on the trade channel that's keeping me there.
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Old 2010-11-07, 16:15   Link #426
felix
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Originally Posted by MakubeX2 View Post
Whatever SEX is planning with XIV, it would seem they were gunning for the casual gaming crowds.
No, pretty sure they were likely aiming for the so called "role playing" people. The ones that are all attached to their characters (in a obsessive way). They're like the fanfiction people in the anime community (you won't see them unless you know what to look for). Given the crap load of cut scenes, long travel distances, organizations in the game (guilds/squads) and chores, it wouldn't surprise me if that was the general direction. If I'm not mistaken there is also this one moment where you have to do all sorts of weird emoticon nonsense.

If you think of all the stuff currently in the game as a "get into fanfiction" gimmick, it kind of makes more sense why it is the way it is. Of course it will never make marketing sense.
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Old 2010-11-07, 16:32   Link #427
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why does it sound like you're hating on RPers?
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Old 2010-11-07, 17:07   Link #428
felix
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Originally Posted by Kyero Fox View Post
why does it sound like you're hating on RPers?
You mean as in placing blame or something? If it sound like it there's nothing I can do is there. But I don't really care about them to be honest. I just see them as another form of "playing the game" (among the many others), consequently that means other then grouping them together I don't really have a opinion about them.
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Old 2010-11-07, 20:32   Link #429
Sassarai
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I think they were aiming more for the casual crowd.

Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?

A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.



I agree with Syn about making the grind seem fun/rewarding is a big part of a mmo since there's no way they can keep up with new content. Although I don't think it's a secret o_O
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Old 2010-11-08, 03:50   Link #430
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
I think they were aiming more for the casual crowd.

Q: What influence have games like World of WarCraft have on the development of FFXIV?

A: As with WoW, we want to aim a bit for the casual user. However, we don't want to make a copy of WoW. We believe we will have things that are unique and will stand out from that game.



I agree with Syn about making the grind seem fun/rewarding is a big part of a mmo since there's no way they can keep up with new content. Although I don't think it's a secret o_O
They are doing item charges now, i.e cash shop.
Commentary by Sankaku

I don't mind continuing to play if the game is free, BUT if we are going to pay for both the items and the game, I am out.

Who is interested to buy a level 30 character with r10 in every skill?
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-08, 04:00   Link #431
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^Do you actually know any games that require monthly subscription and have cash shop ? I haven't found any yet.. fortunately. To be honest if they think the game can be saved with micro transactions AND still having monthly subscription there must be something wrong with their brain.

But with that said, I think it's unlikely it would have both ... I hope it will be free, then I could play it too.
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Old 2010-11-08, 07:21   Link #432
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Dist View Post
^Do you actually know any games that require monthly subscription and have cash shop ? I haven't found any yet.. fortunately. To be honest if they think the game can be saved with micro transactions AND still having monthly subscription there must be something wrong with their brain.

But with that said, I think it's unlikely it would have both ... I hope it will be free, then I could play it too.
Not for us who paid $100 for the LE!
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-08, 08:24   Link #433
Dist
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LE ? LoL Edition ? I guess you meant CE ? $100 sounds too much though, definitely didn't cost that much.
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Old 2010-11-08, 08:31   Link #434
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My experiences with the game around open beta, but judging from word of mouth and my time hanging with goons I know that the game hasn't evolved if at all.

I really have no idea what their "Vision" was planning, but it gently screwed them every which way. Ah where do I begin...

First off, Square-Enix itself,
- Extremely poor interaction with its developers, and the people who run the show with its community. Now I don't know if the JP community had more voice, but from the people I ran into (JP Players) they said it wasn't much of a difference than everyone else.
- They promised a truckload of stuff on retail, and I'm not talking about the things they eluded to happening later; but things they flat out said "It'll be there on retail" such as more customization options for player characters for one.
- Like with the first point, they handle letting their playerbase know what they are doing with the game extremely poorly. Poor patch up-dates which could be updated via the login screen, even Ragnarok with a hundred times worse despicable and useless management team manage to update their launcher or forums with information.

Now for the game itself
- It suffers badly from a weak design focus, they want it a casual game yet the player is limited with options after less than a hour of game play for a long period of time and is forced to grind should they want to progress. That sorta defeats the purpose no?
- The game penalizes its players in way to many ways, mostly is the fact that like I said the player has a limited set of missions to complete and then they can't do anymore for a day or two if not more. That doesn't bother you, well if you grind it out to much you hit exp penalities and you eventually reach zero experience from this so-called fatigue system which is a poor attempt to prevent players from power leveling their way through or to long-gate the climb to end-game because they don't have the content for that. All while expecting the player to pay a monthly fee.
- But you can do more than <X> leve/misisons if you- Yeah, no, doing a stupid complicated procedure to chain missions is retarded end of story. It's like retarded WoW Achievements without the fun, reward, or logic.
- With such a massive and world spilling with eye-candy, the player is forced instead to congregate around camps; all the nodes as well are pre-determined so unless your grinding a specific set of monsters out who knows where then why bother exploring and traversing the world. It has so much potential, but there was no honest effort besides the rush to get it out the door as a product; there's no effective cities besides these little camps and that really blows. It's like playing in a huge map that is essentially the Barrens (WoW) except there's nothing to do besides mobs and farming some pre-determined nodes around the same specific spots usually near a camp. There's no motion of progression, all it is one big rainbow staircase where you just repeat the same thing with a different tune but in the end it's the same feel.
- Grinidia, what garbage... it just spews of laziness.
- It's been said a thousand times, it'll probably bring out the ignorant purists as well, but the UI and keyboard support is garbage. Your marketing a product on the PC then you better as well add a support for it, no excuse from such a major company. Not to mention the atrocious UI lag which adds to the time sink, as much as I like the crafting system its atrocious if I'm making a single item and it takes me 3~4 minutes to start making the first item after opening the menu the first time, then the still 2 minutes or more for repeated items. Also the random-theory and unknown mechanics to the crafting system is garbage, players shouldn't be doing spreadsheets and mathematical equations to see whats best thing to do just to play the god damn game, save that shit for end-game content.
- Experience, they could have saved themselves aloooot of trouble but someone had an ingenious horrible idea. Not sure if they fixed it, I doubt it, but if they just made it so that mobs had a set of Job Experience (like, you know, base experience) Like say a Dodo gives 100 Job Experience, and 100 Base at lvl.10, then maybe you wouldn't have a screwed up and ineffective group play system or having max level conjurers due to a easy to see exploit.
- Group Play! Non-existent, quite useless and for shame it was fun running around with 5+ people doing missions.
- Retarded Mob/difficulty placement, so much more could have been done with the world itself and mobs. But no, their idea of group play outside was for people to tackle on harder mobs for greater (haha) rewards! - How about the idea of "elite"/group areas, as seen in WoW, Conan, Aion, and just about nearly &@&& every other game.
- Guilds, I'm not sure if they even fixed this at all - I doubt it again. But the idea of not being able to kick someone remotely was a good idea is beyond me, or the fact you couldn't kick them if they were offline/quit forever. Also extremely limited emblem choices, they could monitor their players if they use out/inappropriate of hand custom emblems with equal punishment but nope they stick a few colors and pre-made crappy designs for players to choose from.
- If your going to rely on a system like Anima, then give players the option to use...a mount or something of the kind
- Crafting... recipes... material lists... what's the point of having players resort to wikis like they will or is some kind of magic going to happen where everyone will keep it hush hush, all it leads too is price gouging and economic manipulation as well as a reason to be a **** to people so you can harvest certain unknown items all for yourself.

I won't complain about not having a guild bank or the benefit of having one for such a big game, but at-least give the player more than 100 ******* storage space especially if their only allowed one character and a single "mule" if they you expect them to pay for more. I won't get into the bazaar system it's a cool concept, but extremely flawed as expected.

They rushed their product, incomplete beta, it's not even aimed for hardcore players or casuals and the only thing that's cool about the game is pretty useless world environment and the crafting system that's has such depth.

Player vs. Player would be cool, but I wasn't expecting that (there should, in the very least guilds vs guilds); but that's another story. FFXIV in its current incarnation was expecting to screw the players while reaping in profits, its a joke, they could do better - and the players should be angry for square enix for thinking they can get away from it. Maybe it'll teach them a lesson (probably not) to not repeat stupid mistakes, especially with FFXII being a flop and source of extreme harsh criticism.

/end wall of text; rant.


Edit: Feel free to correct me if they actually did fix one on my complaints.
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Old 2010-11-08, 08:51   Link #435
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dist View Post
LE ? LoL Edition ? I guess you meant CE ? $100 sounds too much though, definitely didn't cost that much.
It did because I owned the CE game. People in SEA and Australia didn't get a release, so they shipped it from Europe and up-charged it.

Turns out that the game is a bloody disappointment. What a waste of $$.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-08, 12:07   Link #436
Sassarai
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post
They are doing item charges now, i.e cash shop.
Commentary by Sankaku

I don't mind continuing to play if the game is free, BUT if we are going to pay for both the items and the game, I am out.

Who is interested to buy a level 30 character with r10 in every skill?
Meh Sankaku is not a reliable source for info. I'll wait till a more accurate translation to come out or till S.E clarifies it more.
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Old 2010-11-08, 12:32   Link #437
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
Meh Sankaku is not a reliable source for info. I'll wait till a more accurate translation to come out or till S.E clarifies it more.
Google translate and jigsaw skills? Maybe it is either I am an Asian and can read Kanji in its Chinese form, or that I only summarise vocabulary due to my dyslexia, I find that it isn't hard to figure out what Wada is trying to say.

Sankaku isn't reliable if you follow their point of view and commentary (which is a thing many people do when they read news articles). Otherwise, the pieces of information, combined with Google/Babelfish translation of the article, can yield quite some serious and neutral information by the more professional newswriters.

Sankaku simply provides a commentary and a link to back themselves up. It is dumb not to focus on the content in the link but on the otherwise biased writeup.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-08, 12:45   Link #438
Sassarai
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Originally Posted by SaintessHeart View Post

Sankaku simply provides a commentary and a link to back themselves up. It is dumb not to focus on the content in the link but on the otherwise biased writeup.
They do more than just provide commentary. They exaggerate things and take it out of context often. Most people can't read Japanese so it's useless to look at the source as backup and I'm not found of trying to read translated material through online translators. Usually it only takes a day or so for a more reliable source to come out anyways. I can wait.
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Old 2010-11-08, 13:05   Link #439
SaintessHeart
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Originally Posted by Sassarai View Post
They do more than just provide commentary. They exaggerate things and take it out of context often. Most people can't read Japanese so it's useless to look at the source as backup and I'm not found of trying to read translated material through online translators. Usually it only takes a day or so for a more reliable source to come out anyways. I can wait.
That is point of view. And what I mentioned in the "reading myopia" statement.
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When three puppygirls named after pastries are on top of each other, it is called Eclair a'la menthe et Biscotti aux fraises avec beaucoup de Ricotta sur le dessus.
Most of all, you have to be disciplined and you have to save, even if you hate our current financial system. Because if you don't save, then you're guaranteed to end up with nothing.
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Old 2010-11-08, 13:18   Link #440
Kyero Fox
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Its Like square pulled a Fable
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