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View Poll Results: K-On! - Episode 10 Rating
Perfect 10 25 24.75%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 25 24.75%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 24 23.76%
7 out of 10 : Good 14 13.86%
6 out of 10 : Average 5 4.95%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 4 3.96%
4 out of 10 : Poor 2 1.98%
3 out of 10 : Bad 1 0.99%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 1 0.99%
Voters: 101. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-06-09, 01:34   Link #101
MidnightViper88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I don't know about K-On! fans. Yes, I want to hear from a fan what is keeping him/her watching the series.
Entertainment

I came in as a rock musician/bassist under the impression that this show would've been heavily influenced on music...Obviously that hasn't been the case, akin to seeing a severed Statue of Liberty head on a "Escape from New York" movie poster only to never see that particular image in the film, the show's premise showcases a musical club but doesn't run with it as hard as it could once the episodes start going...But despite the lack of music, I look at it in two ways: 1. It's only a club that only happens to operate as a band, and 2. At least music is still a recurring theme...Pathetic, but when it does turn it's attention to the music, it does try to make the best of it, and I still get a kick out of it no matter what...While I had initially thought it would be heavily influenced on music, I also did not think it would be serious business, instead suspecting it would be just good ol' fun; Kind of like Eddie Van Halen, who's a dedicated guitarist but makes no excuse not to have fun playing the guitar...

It's because of the musical theme that I've made exceptions where I normally would not have watched the show had it not been for the music in the first place, kind of like a sales pitch that gets your main focus but also draws significant attention to another related or tie-in product...Sitting through it, I don't mind most of the gags; Keyword, most, since some some fall flat, but I still get a good chuckle out of most...It's light-hearted, it's funny, it's entertaining, and every now and then, it's got music; I don't have a serious reason to stick around, but dammit do I love doing it anyway...

Preconceptions about this being a by-product of KyoAni doesn't apply to me, since the only thing I've seen that came out of their factory was TMOSH (Figure that acronym out) and that was only because I happened to come across a box set of it for cheap and wanted to finally see what the hype was nearly 2 years after the initial earthquake, and even then, "KyoAni" still didn't exist to me until I started reading about people talking about them in the K-On! episode discussion threads...

So I reitterate: Entertainment

And of course, music, music, music...No, K-On! isn't too serious with the music, but hell, neither is my own personal life as a bassist either...
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Old 2009-06-09, 05:39   Link #102
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For me, K-On is a guilty pleasure of sorts. I get a serving of moe and lulz with music on the side--not a bad deal at all.

Also recently, I'm getting a kick at viewing it as a sterilized retelling of the story of a band, that is we get moe, cake and fuwa fuwa time as a more acceptable substitute for sex, drugs and rock n roll.
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Old 2009-06-09, 17:44   Link #103
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I pity Yui this episode, I hope this isn't her secret habit of sorts. I remember (ya like it was that long ago, lol) when I used to do a lot of things at night just because of the peace and quite and more importantly, god damn breathable air! I like the night but its a really bad habit; if you do it on a regular basis you ruin your sleep. Even now my sleeping habits are sort of erratic.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I don't know about K-On! fans. Yes, I want to hear from a fan what is keeping him/her watching the series.
Its fundamentally different then all the others. I'll keep it short: I award attention to what is in my mind a stroke of imagination; things that go by the book are stale and sincerely I do not wish to be fed a story with the premise "this is what we define quality blah blah" crap. Yes, K-On!, like quite the few shows from the same *coughoverhypedcough* studio, has the whatever-you-call-it in the theme, but that is not really what I'm paying attention to. I guess you could call what I'm looking for "impact", although that would be just a loose way of pointing at it and almost ironic here.

No offense, but blogs of X and review of Y can ditch at the show all they want; for the most part I do not personally give a damn if sequence from minute 12:42 to 12:51 had less frames then it should have or you noticed some color variation in their nose. Also, the hole concept that the story supposedly doesn't fit into this imaginary quality "box" you have is even more beyond me. Why even watch new stuff?

But then again, don't listen to me, I do not even comprehend the logic behind the so popular concept of "spoiler".
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Old 2009-06-09, 18:45   Link #104
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Except K-On pretty much IS going by the book and following pretty much the same formula that always gets used in what now seems to have become the new definition of slice of life series. Four girls frollicking around and engaging in wacky antics. That is apparently what is defined as slice of life now.

Whatever, so I thought maybe it would put it's own spin on it all with the K-On club angle, but nope, not really since it's barely ever touched upon. Then I gave it a chance with it's gag angle to see if it would forge it's own niche and be able to keep things fresh, but nope again I am left underwhelmed beside the fact that they basically had the exact same premise this episode as they did earlier on with episode 04. K-On to me has become stale and unimaginative and like Cats I prefer to award points to series that are creative in how they pursue their themes. K-On isn't, that's it's key problem.

Of course people who don't think I'm "fan" enough to have a valid opinion on this show don't have to listen to any of the above.
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Old 2009-06-09, 18:48   Link #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sheba View Post
I don't know about K-On! fans. Yes, I want to hear from a fan what is keeping him/her watching the series.
Timing.

You wake up one morning and find a craving for something and the first thing that offers that taste becomes the best thing in the world for you.

Anime connoisseurs out there might argue that other shows are better but if the timing is wrong then my appreciation for those shows (and their respective genres) would be quite poor.

I'm not worried on "missing out" on watching a good show in the same season it premieres so I just put these recommended titles in my "to-watch list" so I can enjoy them when I'm in the mood for such shows.

Right now K-on is delivering the type of show I wish to watch. The character designs drew me in early on but the member interactions are what keeps me watching the show. I had no expectations for the music side of the story (never read the 4koma but at 2 volumes I assumed that the story so far would only reach the "forming the band stage". Any other time the "my pace", repeat gags, and multiple beach episodes would have annoyed me. Fortunately, I was in the mood for such a show and such things barely registered as I watched through the episodes.
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Old 2009-06-09, 18:59   Link #106
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Originally Posted by k3fan View Post
I almost see it as some kind of rule in anime. The rich girl is depicted as the most considerate,kindest type person you ever would want to meet,not the spoiled brat stereotype. I wonder if most wealthy Japanese schoolgirls are?

I'll base that on
the shows I've seen:

Sailor Moon: Ami Mizuno
MK RayEarth: Fuu Houji
Card Captor Sakura: Tomoe Daidoji
Nanoha:Suzuka
Lucky Star:Miyuki Takara

Mugi is one of my favorites,too.

k3fan
That is an interesting point. I mean in most Western films, usually the character that obtains fortune becomes completely spoiled, irrational, and justifies the stereotype that all rich people are brats. While Japanese anime/television thinks otherwise. A kind, gentle, motherly or fatherly like nature that attends to everyone as if they were equals. Great western movie and novel example of a spoiled rich person: Great Expectations by Charles Dickens.
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Old 2009-06-09, 19:41   Link #107
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Yui and Ritsu were so cute this episode.
Too bad they didn't really get on a boat.
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Old 2009-06-09, 20:31   Link #108
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Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
Except K-On pretty much IS going by the book and following pretty much the same formula that always gets used in what now seems to have become the new definition of slice of life series. Four girls frollicking around and engaging in wacky antics. That is apparently what is defined as slice of life now.

Whatever, so I thought maybe it would put it's own spin on it all with the K-On club angle, but nope, not really since it's barely ever touched upon. Then I gave it a chance with it's gag angle to see if it would forge it's own niche and be able to keep things fresh, but nope again I am left underwhelmed beside the fact that they basically had the exact same premise this episode as they did earlier on with episode 04. K-On to me has become stale and unimaginative and like Cats I prefer to award points to series that are creative in how they pursue their themes. K-On isn't, that's it's key problem.
This is sort of like the difference between someone who goes to an amusement park all the time and rides the same rides over and over (the "season-pass holder"), vs. someone who only goes whenever there's something new because they get bored after they try something once or twice (the "thrill-seeker"). It's entirely a personality thing. Amusement parks have to appeal to both demographics, but anime doesn't always try to, or need to try to -- the tried and true formulas sell like crazy. But for some reason it really annoys some people to see other people enjoying themselves with something they consider generic/unpraiseworthy/boring, always trying to point out the show's innumerable flaws and asking questions like "how can you like this derivative crap?" To which the season-pass holders can only reply, "if you hate it so much, why don't you just go home already?", which only serves to exasperate the thrill-seekers that much further. This continues ad nauseum until a show ends and everyone moves onto the next, when the whole cycle begins once more. And that, in a nutshell, is the anime fan scene, this thread, and us.

What amazes me is that many of us have been doing this for years now and it's like nobody's clued in that nothing ever changes. Or maybe people have gotten so comfortable in their roles as critics/fans/etc. that we're just going through the motions and playing our assigned parts. I think it's time to consider that maybe some of us like playing the role more than watching the shows. What that ultimately means, though, who knows...
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Old 2009-06-09, 21:16   Link #109
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
What amazes me is that many of us have been doing this for years now and it's like nobody's clued in that nothing ever changes. Or maybe people have gotten so comfortable in their roles as critics/fans/etc. that we're just going through the motions and playing our assigned parts. I think it's time to consider that maybe some of us like playing the role more than watching the shows. What that ultimately means, though, who knows...
Dear lord, you're scaring me.

Well... To be fair to the genre of anime... In comparison to American TV I always find way better things to watch every season... I'm watching like 10 series this season... (Regios, Cross Game, K-ON!, FMA, Shangri-la, Eden of the East, Natsu no Arashi, Phantom, Valkyria Chronicles, and others...) and guess what? K-ON! is the only one I'd actually rate quite poorly.

I don't think this has to do with being bored of going on the same rides all over again as I just never liked this sort of ride in the first place... The only truly unique feeling animes this season for me have been Eden and Natsu no Arashi. So it has nothing to do with a lack of originality.

My criticisms of this show are not based upon its originality because I care a lot more about the execution.
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Old 2009-06-09, 21:48   Link #110
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My criticisms of this show are not based upon its originality because I care a lot more about the execution.
Well, that wasn't meant to be a slam on people who dislike the show. Of course, people can have many reasons for disliking a show -- lack of genre-redefining originality is just one of them. But that, in particular, was the issue I was commenting about; there is indeed a certain group who consistently appear in threads for every Kyoto Animation production only to point out that the popularity is disproportionate to the originality/creativity/whatever. It happens every time without fail, like clockwork. We could indeed wear it as a title underneath our forum nicknames.

In general, though, there's no right or wrong reason to have an opinion, so I'm not sure why you felt targeted. That being said, I do think it's useful to recognize the key factors that play into our preferences. In particular...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reckoner View Post
I don't think this has to do with being bored of going on the same rides all over again as I just never liked this sort of ride in the first place...
...this sort of speaks for itself. We should not be very surprised, then, that this show in a genre you don't like isn't exceeding your expectations. And you should, of course, recognize that this isn't the show's fault either. As the saying goes, "it is what it is".

More predictable responses by me.
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Old 2009-06-09, 22:14   Link #111
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Old 2009-06-10, 00:01   Link #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
This is sort of like the difference between someone who goes to an amusement park all the time and rides the same rides over and over (the "season-pass holder"), vs. someone who only goes whenever there's something new because they get bored after they try something once or twice (the "thrill-seeker"). It's entirely a personality thing. Amusement parks have to appeal to both demographics, but anime doesn't always try to, or need to try to -- the tried and true formulas sell like crazy. But for some reason it really annoys some people to see other people enjoying themselves with something they consider generic/unpraiseworthy/boring, always trying to point out the show's innumerable flaws and asking questions like "how can you like this derivative crap?" To which the season-pass holders can only reply, "if you hate it so much, why don't you just go home already?", which only serves to exasperate the thrill-seekers that much further. This continues ad nauseum until a show ends and everyone moves onto the next, when the whole cycle begins once more. And that, in a nutshell, is the anime fan scene, this thread, and us.

What amazes me is that many of us have been doing this for years now and it's like nobody's clued in that nothing ever changes. Or maybe people have gotten so comfortable in their roles as critics/fans/etc. that we're just going through the motions and playing our assigned parts. I think it's time to consider that maybe some of us like playing the role more than watching the shows. What that ultimately means, though, who knows...
Yep, I'm definitely the thrill seeker type. Never want to be stuck doing the same thing, playing the same stage or watching the same events within a given movie/show more then I feel I should have to.

I'm actually well aware of what's going on and how the game works and even the role I seem to have been given in it, but what else can you do but play it. That's kind of the scary part if you allow yourself to think about it and it does raise the question of whether we really are in control or just the pawns in the game of forum discussion, doomed to keep moving forward in the same direction until we get bumped off onto a new path or taken out of the game completely.
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Old 2009-06-10, 01:13   Link #113
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this episode is not as bad as some said here, it is just a bit repetitive

but watching these cute and likable characters alone is an enjoyment for me
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Old 2009-06-10, 01:39   Link #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama View Post
I'm actually well aware of what's going on and how the game works and even the role I seem to have been given in it, but what else can you do but play it. That's kind of the scary part if you allow yourself to think about it and it does raise the question of whether we really are in control or just the pawns in the game of forum discussion, doomed to keep moving forward in the same direction until we get bumped off onto a new path or taken out of the game completely.
You know, it's almost twisted in a way, but I can actually respect that somehow. What annoys me most is people who are obviously playing the game but publicly deny the game exists. I'm reminded somehow of how comic book heroes and villains seem to have a twisted but deep respect for their archnemesis, as if they're the only one "worthy" of being their opponent. Not that we're enemies at all, but you probably know what I mean...

(Though, I must say -- there is a certain irony about how the thing that's the most predictable about this show isn't the show itself, it's the almost-canned forum reactions... I thought you valued originality! )
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Old 2009-06-10, 01:51   Link #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post

(Though, I must say -- there is a certain irony about how the thing that's the most predictable about this show isn't the show itself, it's the almost-canned forum reactions... I thought you valued originality! )
This is original. Most Kyoani series subforums usually only seem to go one way when it comes to reactions, and it's often very similiar to how Bum Reviews with Chester A. Bum reacts to everything (Only without the satire). K-On though has a surprisingly mixed opinion when it comes to reactions from the peanut gallery, which is totally out of whack with how I usually see the game getting played.
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Old 2009-06-10, 08:05   Link #116
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enjoyeable to me, i get to watch ritsu fooling around again.
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Old 2009-06-10, 10:13   Link #117
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
In general, though, there's no right or wrong reason to have an opinion, so I'm not sure why you felt targeted. That being said, I do think it's useful to recognize the key factors that play into our preferences. In particular...

...this sort of speaks for itself. We should not be very surprised, then, that this show in a genre you don't like isn't exceeding your expectations. And you should, of course, recognize that this isn't the show's fault either. As the saying goes, "it is what it is".

More predictable responses by me.
I don't think it has anything necessarily to do with the genre. K-ON! is classified as what? A comedic, moe, slice-of-life show? It's not the genre that has bothered me, but rather how the whole dang thing has been executed. I am more often than not disappointed and voice my complaints when I see potential in a show. I know with some minor tweaks, this could have been so much better... This is unlike something such as Dragonaut where we know it is crap and I just drop it.

I find it funny how you seem to consider the "game" of being a critic to be something twisted. When we look at professional critics of movies out there, they are pretty much doing the same things themselves. Websites like IMDB reflect this sort of reaction better than anything, as when certain movies somehow end up #1 in the top 250 list, hoards of people then proceed to vote it down with numerous ratings of a 1 (And this why Shawshank Redemption is somehow #1 when it is a good film, but shouldn't be the best out there...).
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Old 2009-06-10, 10:26   Link #118
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What annoys me most is people who are obviously playing the game but publicly deny the game exists.
Hey, I find it funny that some people play one role with some series and a different one with others. I don't think I'd have the same stamina.
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Old 2009-06-10, 11:43   Link #119
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This is original. Most Kyoani series subforums usually only seem to go one way when it comes to reactions, and it's often very similiar to how Bum Reviews with Chester A. Bum reacts to everything (Only without the satire). K-On though has a surprisingly mixed opinion when it comes to reactions from the peanut gallery, which is totally out of whack with how I usually see the game getting played.
You really think so? I always just assumed that many people had grown tired of playing. If you look at the poll for this episode, almost half voted 9 or 10, with only 14% or so voting 6 (Average) or below. It seems to me that, for whatever reason, the disenfranchised group is speaking up disproportionately more than the overwhelming majority. The only thing this series lacks, compared to the past, is the same degree of passion in the defense of the franchise, which gives the critics more "air time". So, I don't know... I see it as sort of "second verse, same as the first; a little bit louder..."

Quote:
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I don't think it has anything necessarily to do with the genre. K-ON! is classified as what? A comedic, moe, slice-of-life show? It's not the genre that has bothered me, but rather how the whole dang thing has been executed. I am more often than not disappointed and voice my complaints when I see potential in a show. I know with some minor tweaks, this could have been so much better...
But isn't that a bit odd if you think about it? You discard the genre, but then complain about it not meeting its potential. Its potential to be a better what? Please don't say "a better anime", because that's too subjective. A more effective moe slice-of-life comedy, you mean? That begs the question, what do people who enjoy moe slice-of-life comedies want from a show? If it's a genre you don't like to begin with, how would you know what would make it better, except by making it more like a genre you do like? And if it becomes more like the way you wish it to be, won't it be less like the way it is already? Will it cause people who are currently enjoying the show to enjoy it less? I just can't see how you can talk about execution without tying in to expectations, or talk about expectations without taking into consideration the genre of the show. It's all intrinsically linked. If the show is hitting the right buttons with people, even if it isn't with you, doesn't that mean it's doing just fine the way it is?

In other words, isn't it possible that it isn't the show that has a problem, but it's your own expectations that are out of alignment?

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I find it funny how you seem to consider the "game" of being a critic to be something twisted. When we look at professional critics of movies out there, they are pretty much doing the same things themselves. Websites like IMDB reflect this sort of reaction better than anything, as when certain movies somehow end up #1 in the top 250 list, hoards of people then proceed to vote it down with numerous ratings of a 1 (And this why Shawshank Redemption is somehow #1 when it is a good film, but shouldn't be the best out there...).
The game of being a critic is twisted, professionally or otherwise, because a critic only speaks from their own biased point of view, yet presents it as if it were Truth. The only way to properly evaluate a critic's opinion is full consideration of their biases. Like, for example, to pick on Kaioshin a bit more ( ), I know from the past years of being on this board that he has an innately negative reaction to anything from Kyoto Animation, and especially anything he perceives as being moe~ pandering. So him giving a low ranking to this show and episode is completely on-pattern and to be expected. Now if he did something off-pattern, that'd be a sign of something that differed significantly from his expectations, which would be extra noteworthy. Just like, on the flip side, if you ever catch me out-and-out ranting about some moe show, you'll know something is up. (This is sort of what we were getting at about "playing our roles".)

You apply this in a broader sense, and people always try to define themselves by how they differentiate. So it's sort of like, if you were part of a giant crowd of people walking in one direction and then suddenly stopped or turned around and walked the other way fighting the crowd. The more people are "swarming" in one direction, the more people there'll be who want to differentiate themselves by being the "counter-current". Anime itself is a counter-current to most popular culture, so this tendency is innate to the community even within its own walls. This is why the more popular something becomes, the more haters it'll attract, and why we could even say that people tend to hate on things simply because they're popular. That's how this community differentiates itself from the rest of the world.

So if you combine these two points -- critics are inherently biased by personal preferences, and people differentiate themselves by when they go against the grain -- you get the Internet media-critic culture. This is why it's so frequently out-of-step with popular opinion. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who proclaims themselves a critic is never to be simply trusted outright; you have to get to know them and see where they're coming from first before you can really understand what their opinions mean. This thread is no different, I think.

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Hey, I find it funny that some people play one role with some series and a different one with others. I don't think I'd have the same stamina.
I suppose it isn't so hard if you're just "being yourself".
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Old 2009-06-10, 13:15   Link #120
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
You really think so? I always just assumed that many people had grown tired of playing. If you look at the poll for this episode, almost half voted 9 or 10, with only 14% or so voting 6 (Average) or below. It seems to me that, for whatever reason, the disenfranchised group is speaking up disproportionately more than the overwhelming majority. The only thing this series lacks, compared to the past, is the same degree of passion in the defense of the franchise, which gives the critics more "air time". So, I don't know... I see it as sort of "second verse, same as the first; a little bit louder..."
Quote:
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Hey, I find it funny that some people play one role with some series and a different one with others. I don't think I'd have the same stamina.
Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
I suppose it isn't so hard if you're just "being yourself".
I believe I mentioned something to the effect of all the above about five weeks ago. I wouldn't be so conceited as to claim that anyone is following my lead, but there definitely is a recent trend in this forums of fans collectively saying "gyafun" here.
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