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Old 2009-06-17, 21:57   Link #101
Vexx
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Aye, I wasn't telling him not to curse.. only that his word choices might reduce his options in regard to who connects with him. I've even seen families ostracize a member because of their language.

As for the smoking analogy, its not uncommon to watch a guy suddenly lose interest in "that pretty girl across the street who proceeds to light a cig; suddenly doesn't look so pretty" --- the same can apply for word choices in communication.
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Old 2009-06-17, 22:25   Link #102
miroku2192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Narona View Post
Erh, that's not what i said



If the person doesn't smoke in front of you, because he respects you, then it's enough to think about befriending him/her.
whoops was reading in a hurry and glanced at your post and i guess "modified" your words to my liking . Sorry
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Old 2009-06-18, 00:03   Link #103
Ledgem
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Originally Posted by Bolton View Post
I think people should be allowed to say what they want, including swear words. Hell I swear quite often IRL and on the internet.
Quote:
Originally Posted by prometheus126 View Post
I curse like a sailor and don't care what people think about my mouth. It's my mouth and I'll decide what comes out of it.
Nobody's advocating censorship or dictating how you should behave. It's about respect for others. As I've said before, curse words convey a set of emotions. Some people are less sensitive to that emotional impact than others (or perhaps they just don't realize the impact), but I think that everyone knows, at some level, that there's a negativity associated with them. Be aware of who's around you before you use such language.

The comments I quoted just remind me of the types of statements that people make, such as "people should be free to do what ever they want" or "I'll do what ever I want and I don't care about other people." "Civilized" society is defined by the following statement: your freedoms end where mine begin. It means that you're free to do anything that doesn't infringe on me and mine, and the reverse also applies.

Cursing uncontrollably - it's sort of like passing a ton of gas in an elevator. You won't get arrested or fined for it, your friends might find it funny, and you technically haven't done anyone any harm... but you've made things a lot more unpleasant for all of the people around you who had no choice but to be exposed to it. Keeping it to yourself and letting it all out when bystanders aren't present is considered a bit more polite and respectful.
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Old 2010-01-30, 05:41   Link #104
Mystique
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I was torn between placing this vid either in the ‘Laugh a Day’ thread or the ‘Anger, can you control it?
I realised it wasn’t so much anger related per se, and while this video is funny as hell, what it made an impact with me was seeing my long time stance on juvenile insults and constant swearing for swearing’s sake online.
Lame excuses such as ‘it’s IRC, we have to be like this’, I’ll forever consider it pure BS.
IRC is merely a program to chat over the internet with. While many of us have a front which doesn’t represent who we may be on a ‘normal’ basis offline, it still comes from somewhere within us to be able to be assholes and trolls online and upset/piss others off.

Offline/online, I don’t make the distinction with people; if you’re an asshole online, you definitely have the capability to be one offline and probably are.
If someone truly claims that it’s just their ‘act’, then they’re a hypocrite if they haven’t the balls to try to act the same way offline.
(Because most know the consequences would be severe, why would people think that it'd not have similar effects via online.)
It was reassuring to see my belief literally manifested by the actor here of why I feel the way I’ve felt for years.
My stance on swearing generally matches Ledgem, although he has written more posts on it on the last few pages of this thread as to why we’re not for it.
If his words didn’t quite convey how we feel with it, maybe the video will.

Of course, it is actually hilarious and in reference to online gamers (my fav part = 02.10) – but it just portrayed perfectly how I feel some days when reading chats or seeing people be nasty to one another, especially via use of constant vile language and derogatory terms…

Anyways, enjoy the funnies and "warning" - constant use of explicit language (the irony for a thread like this)
But for those who don't mind/engage in constant swearing, feel free to put the volume up. ^^



Round 2 if you can handle more
The online gamer 2
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Last edited by Mystique; 2010-01-30 at 05:54.
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Old 2010-01-30, 05:54   Link #105
LusterFlare
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Insert text here :P
Yeah I saw those vids a while back, quite funny.

I swear a bit at home. I think I do so because that I grew up hearing it and I never really broke the habit. However, I never swear anywhere in public.
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Old 2010-01-30, 06:31   Link #106
iceyfw
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i rarely judge people when they cuss unless they seriously involve a cussing word in every other sentence they use in a normal conversation. that is when i start to keep my distance away from the person depending.

as for me, i rarely cuss IRL unless you are really pushing my buttons hardcore. the only other time i cuss usually was when playing WoW for arena during S5 and S6. that shit was so broken for those who knows what im talking about. fuckin' DKs and COI and FUCKING LOCKS IN S5. JUST WTF> yea i lost my temper just thinking about it lol ):

the list goes on and on. god i don't know how many times i nerdraged on skype because of certain things.
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Old 2010-01-30, 11:19   Link #107
hinakatbklyn
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I might have fouled off to myself or maybe at home, but never straight at anyone and I never leave the house with any foul words. (Those who don't foul off, my office is the last place to go to. On average 1 foul word per sentence, both serious and as a joke. How I managed to avoid following their path is beyond me. My neighborhood is also infamous for fouling off.)
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Old 2010-01-30, 11:56   Link #108
Chaho-Chi
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My mom swears a lot and so does my dad so I often swear when I'm angry or suprised, unless I'm with my best friend. She pinches me everytime I curse so I'm careful around her. >.>
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Old 2010-01-30, 12:20   Link #109
RadiantBeam
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The only times I ever really swear is when I'm either extremely angry, extremely scared, or extremely nervous. I'm not sure why, really. Most of the time, beyond that, I hardly swear at all.
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Old 2010-01-30, 12:26   Link #110
Lio
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I don't have an attachment to profane language. I don't attach meaning to words.
They're just words. In and of themselves they don't say anything. It's the context that gives them meaning. (As an example: somebody can say "I love you" when they actually hate you. They can also say "I fucking hate you" when they actually love you. And you'll know based on their tone of voice, their body language, and the circumstance.)

Now, I am aware that most people have emotional and mental attachments to profane language (and just words in general). Perhaps they were taught that "swearing is bad" or that to use profane language is "uncivilized." But that's all just knee-jerk reactions from what they learned from other people in the past. I don't deny it, that's just how alot of people are. I watch the words I use to suit the social situation, but I personally don't have such a knee-jerk reaction to swearing as other people do.

To me, reacting so quickly and negatively to swearing is a form of shallowness.
A pre-judgement, if you will. Who are you to judge a word or a person just for using a word?

Similarly, somebody who swears unconsciously, for instance something wrong happens and they say "Oh shit!" without even thinking, that's just as shallow.

But a person who consciously chooses to use specific words to convey a specific meaning or to have a specific effect, that's a completely different level of being.

They no longer use profane language as an unconscious discharge of their uncontrolled anger,
nor do they judge people so quickly and negatively for using profane language.
Rather, they're using the inherent force that certain words carry, consciously bringing them into the language as a form of art.

Anyway, most of you probably don't swear much. I don't either. But do we have to impose such quick and shallow judgment on swearing in and of itself, or is it something you can begin to realize that they're just words, that it's the context that makes it "good" or "bad", and you find yourself dropping all those negative mental/emotional attachments to them?
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Old 2010-01-30, 12:59   Link #111
Atlanty
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I don't swear usually, I mean in conversations. Only when I want to express something I think is really nice, or really bad, but I never use foul language AGAINST someone in a bad way. Example: "Wow, you're so damn good at tennis!" it sounds more intense than "Wow, You're really good at tennis". I use them in a way to praise someone, the only time I use it the negative way is against myself. Like when I play badminton someone gives the the perfect situation to smash and get an easy score. I miss the ball and because of that, the other team gets the score, I'd say "Oh damnit!". Because I am angry at myself for missing it, and angry cuz I spoil the game for my teammate, although that rage goes by in like 2 secs. When my friend misses the ball I'm like: "It's okay, just dont lose it again, I know you can do better" or something like that.

Anyway, I think swearing is a way to tone your words, there are people who say them in another way though, but I don't care unless they really swear every second sentence.
I also think that sweden has a too "soft" language so it's really quite hard to express it the way u want it sometimes. Swearing might do it. When I win I'm like "YES!". When I lose "GAH, SO FRIGGIN CLOSE!" (<- if I was close XD).
I'm kinda aggresive sometimes when my body heats up, now you probably think im an swearing idiot =_=
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Old 2010-01-30, 15:19   Link #112
psycho_luny
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in conversations: only when i want to point out something or when i lose my temper.
outside conversations:
when i'm a jolly mood and i drop something i just say: "son of a (end)" in a wierd sounding way or "dangit.
when i'm irretated and i drop something i'd say: "god dammit
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Old 2010-01-30, 15:40   Link #113
Aimingan12
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Well I don't swear at all unless I'm in a bad mood or if I'm just being sarcastic but I hardly swear in public.
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Old 2010-01-30, 15:45   Link #114
synaesthetic
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I curse like Revy (and everyone else) in Black Lagoon: The Fucking Short Version.
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Old 2010-01-30, 18:34   Link #115
Tsuyoshi
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I swear casually. I don't exactly swear at people when I argue with them, because that never gets me anywhere. I tend to use swear words for the purpose of emphasizing something's worth. I try to tone it down sometimes as there are people who tend to misunderstand me, but it's a lot harder than it seems
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Old 2010-01-30, 19:36   Link #116
Mystique
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Wheeeee~
Time to put on my writer’s hat and talk linguistics
*dons hat and tells people to go hide if big wall of text scares them* xD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lio View Post
I don't have an attachment to profane language. I don't attach meaning to words.
They're just words. In and of themselves they don't say anything. It's the context that gives them meaning.
Which my deary, makes up a language, that's how humans communicate. Words are never stand alone, if they did, then we'd have no need for a dictionary to learn the definitions. Words and default meanings go hand in hand.
(Defualt meanings is a term I’ll use in this post often)
Naturally the ‘default meaning’ evolves over long periods of time, for example
‘gay = jovial’
‘gay = A homosexual (mostly referred to men)’
‘gay = Mainly Internet slang, to mean ‘lame’ or to give a general negative feedback, perhaps derived from the general negativity aimed towards homosexual men.
(Which is lame in itself imo :/)

Could you honestly watch the video I posted and stand there and tell me that the black guys attitude was not much more aggressive than the others, purely though his foul language?
There were no other ways to take his meaning via his words and he knows that hence he used them. The only difference is that he didn't notice was the offence because screaming at a monitor doesn't show the reaction as much as screaming at a human, but it causes the same infliction.
It is unpleasant to have to put up with.
Quote:
(As an example: somebody can say "I love you" when they actually hate you. They can also say "I fucking hate you" when they actually love you. And you'll know based on their tone of voice, their body language, and the circumstance.)
First rules of language are what the words mean by default and are universally accepted and followed by those who use them.
Second layer if you will, are what a certain culture or subculture do with the original meaning and if they decide to abuse it for it to mean something else. More times than not, it's only known within a minority circle, thus comes the use of 'slang'.
Thirdly as you mentioned 'context', is also a cultural aspect.
Your first sentence either has the person lying or it’s purely 'sarcasm' and nothing else, which is why so so so many misunderstandings happen online when people read text.
It's no different for example, when I come indoors from a freezing cold day and say to a Japanese person:
'Man it's so warm today'
and they look at me, blink and say 'no it's not, it's really cold!'

-And I've experimented with this by applying the same sarcastic sense in Japanese and it doesn't carry through, therefore enforcing that the Brits really are into their black humour with the English language.
(Hell, there are times when I make it so subtle, as in keep my voice and tone normal that some Americans didn't quite catch it either, lol)
But the Japanese person would be correct in taking my words as 'false', since I'm the one who is perverting the meaning in order to be 'sarcastic'.
Then again, sarcasm isn't pleasant, nor is it nice and can make a person's personality much more harsh or unfriendly then someone who is genuine most of the time with what they say and I freely admit this when I have to explain the concept of it to many Japanese who’re trying to learn this language or watch a movie and miss the cultural in joke.

Anyways, back to your 'words are just words' statement.
9/10, we can only take the default meaning of the words written on the screen so we're all on the same page, but words have less of a tone or 'feel' attached to them and sometimes going by our mood, we sadly project that onto the passages we read and misinterpret.
When we write, we require the use of words to paint a picture that projects the meaning we want to tell, but we typically do that using words with their default meaning, just as you've expressed how you feel in your post.
I understand it because I'm taking all the words you've said by their default meaning, meaning if a foreigner was to look up a dictionary, they'd kinda get the jist of your post and how you feel.
Words are just words in terms of us being able to 'see' the written form of communication by using letters or characters. It doesn't make them any less significant though, for example, if we were to say:

'The soft summer breeze carressed her skin, carrying a sweet aroma such as sugar candy.'
vs
The bitter, biting wind tore into her skin, piercing her with knives of ice from the harsh cold temperatures.


When you read those two sentences, I'm sure your mental voice gave it different tones, you mentally envisioned different things and could feel different things.
The words therefore made the context, no one is likely gonna read the first sentence and think or feel the sensation of cold, nor is no one likely to read the second sentence and think or feel the sensation of heat.
Quote:
Now, I am aware that most people have emotional and mental attachments to profane language (and just words in general). Perhaps they were taught that "swearing is bad" or that to use profane language is "uncivilized." But that's all just knee-jerk reactions from what they learned from other people in the past. I don't deny it, that's just how alot of people are. I watch the words I use to suit the social situation, but I personally don't have such a knee-jerk reaction to swearing as other people do.
And swear language (I speak purely for the English language here) is the exact same.
Its default purpose (not our emotional attachment but purely it's purpose) is to add emphasis. Is to provide short, sharp tones, it's to typically display (extreme) anger, shock or surprise from a persons character. People's sensitivity to it depends on their exposure, their character or environment, but it doesn't change the fact that they're still 'swear words', they're in their own classification.
Quote:
Anyway, most of you probably don't swear much. I don't either. But do we have to impose such quick and shallow judgment on swearing in and of itself, or is it something you can begin to realize that they're just words, that it's the context that makes it "good" or "bad", and you find yourself dropping all those negative mental/emotional attachments to them?

To me, reacting so quickly and negatively to swearing is a form of shallowness.
A pre-judgement, if you will. Who are you to judge a word or a person just for using a word?
Simple. Because it's crude.
"Crude" to you and me, is not something positive.
"Positive" in most languages means "emphasizing what is laudable, hopeful, or to the good; constructive."
For you, you can brush it off which is fine, but it also prevents you from feeling the impact that they can give meaning for us to naturally react negatively to it means you deem us shallow, that's somewhat hypocritical, no?

And why may we judge a person's character based off the use of them?
(Well obviously, it's how frequently they use the words but for someone like me who rarely if ever swore during my teens, when just the 1 word escaped my lips, believe me heads everywhere turned towards me with wide eyes.
People knew something was seriously up and their judgement was correct)

The English language is so messed up and so beautiful in it's diversity of 40,000 words or so, that to restrict your lexicon mainly to debase, crude terms only, least to how I feel, begins to drop IQ points from your level on first few impressions.
It's a similar reaction from me to another thread we have 'Do people criticise the way you write?' The increasing use of broken internet slang in let's say during a debate tend to put a lot of people off. Not to mention, the abuse of correct spelling (give a UK/US difference) makes it harder to read, meaning if a person isn't bothered to be courteous to their fellow readers, why should we be courteous to try to decipher your code of text?
There are alternative words to swearing if the emphasis isn't needed in your sentences.

Swearing is sensitive (or strong) as such that to go around telling everyone, stranger or friend 'sup bitch', is gonna most likely get you ended up in hospital.
Not to mention that there is an alternative. If the situation warrants it, you can put someone down so harshly without having to utter a single curseword, that to me is seriously orgasmic. xD

Curse words are limited to be “safe”, only when used within a group of people who are either accustomed to it, the environment is filled with it, but what makes them less offensive is the general unwritten acceptance from those people that know:
'while they are used to insult, for this situation, we're just using them without paying mind to their default meanings or purpose or just using them as jokes or as our way to let off our frustrations for this stressful environment.'

And usually a new person would have to spend time (as I had to do last summer when I was working with a bunch of guys for most part) draw up enough of 'shield' to be able to tune it out so I didn't jump every time someone yelled out 'f@ck'! or think something deadly wrong.
But I still felt uncomfortable, I didn't enjoy the atmosphere nor did I laugh or smile from it much compared to other departments which definitely seemed much more civil. xD
Quote:
Similarly, somebody who swears unconsciously, for instance something wrong happens and they say "Oh shit!" without even thinking, that's just as shallow.
Those who use it as a direct reaction from a strong emotional response are most likely gonna apologise for it after, trust me xD
Doesn't make them shallow in that sense, especially if it's something they don't usually do. I point back up to the example I gave of myself in brackets about how it unsettled many when a swear word did escape my lips. It served its purpose (even though I didn't make conscious decision to use it), which instantly gained a reaction from all and signalled that something was wrong.
It can be just a surprising as someone who suffers from Tourette syndrome. Bursting out with random words all of a sudden is a little unsettling, but when those are replaced with swear words, uhh... the atmosphere tends to turn awkward real fast.
Quote:
But a person who consciously chooses to use specific words to convey a specific meaning or to have a specific effect, that's a completely different level of being.

They no longer use profane language as an unconscious discharge of their uncontrolled anger, nor do they judge people so quickly and negatively for using profane language.
Rather, they're using the inherent force that certain words carry, consciously bringing them into the language as a form of art.
Well hence I said, short of people knowing to disregard the default meaning and use of the words for said purpose of art, job, to 'blend in', then it won't carry offence as such and instantaneous judgement won't be made, hence why warnings are given just to let people get mentally prepared for their onslaught, like in South Park for example.

But a person cannot go around, collecting words as they see fit, rearrange it to their liking, use it on others, meaning you're forcing us to try to understand what you want to convey, without the person on the receiving end having absolutely no freaking (to use a mild one ) idea of how this person has perverted the default meaning.

For example, if 5 people heard the word 'banana' and 4 others happily decided that it is to mean 'apple, orange, strawberry and mango', so when they hear 'banana' they bring the other fruit instead, we're gonna have some serious issues, no?
The default meaning of a banana, is the yellow, long fruit. A perverse meaning of it could mean a penis, but it won't be the first thing people think of then they hear 'banana'.

Nonetheless, it doesn't mean we disregard the default meaning anymore than we disregard the default purposes or meaning of swearwords, hence why we're likely to make negative judgements.
We all judge others on the way a person carries themselves through their speech as much as we judge on clothing, hair, make up and so on.
Naturally, it's to get to know someone to confirm for sure how correct your first impressions were, but we can't go around befriending every single stranger, so if it's part of your 'front', since that's what you're projecting then be prepared for the response.
Communication is a two-way street.

To end up on my writer’s sense, personally I’m a lexophile, (here’s a new term for most of you guys, I was only able to officially ‘diagnose’ myself of this last year) xD
Words to me given their universal accepted default meanings (be it English or in Japanese) have character, have colour, have personalities to them. The more synonyms I know, the easier it becomes for me to choose and select the words I need to give the exact nuance of a scene, scenario when I write fiction, thus is the job of a writer.
To be able to manipulate and craft lexicon to simulate or stimulate a specified response or a moment in time, using the words that fit the best, in a style that preferable is unique to them.

Sex is just sex, however the terms
“Making love” vs “f@!king”, I think is safe to say, most of us know how the act of sex differs and what words are likely to be associated if we had to describe each scene.
"Dirty talk" is a perfect example of the default purpose of what swear words are used for.
Spoiler for hidden for sensitivity:

Words are more than just that now, aren’t they?
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Last edited by Mystique; 2010-01-30 at 19:46.
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Old 2010-01-30, 21:37   Link #117
Slick_rick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique View Post

Could you honestly watch the video I posted and stand there and tell me that the black guys attitude was not much more aggressive than the others, purely though his foul language?
There were no other ways to take his meaning via his words and he knows that hence he used them. The only difference is that he didn't notice was the offence because screaming at a monitor doesn't show the reaction as much as screaming at a human, but it causes the same infliction.
It is unpleasant to have to put up with.
I can honestly tell you that he was not much more aggressive purely through his foul language. His overall attitude and tone more conveyed his dislike of being in that situation more than anything else. He was interrupting them, talking over them, and talking down to them. None of these things require bad language at all. He could just have easily conveyed the same exact feelings without cursing he just chose to curse to add emphasize. You can curse without offending people, its not hard, people do it every day as they do the opposite too. Some people are offended with curses in particular but you can't really help that.

Honestly I find most of your other ramblings as superfluous. Yes, cursing is crude but like a lot of crude things it has it place in society. It's not something you want to use in the wrong situation but it can be beneficial also. Some people feel more comfortable in an environment where everything isn't so restricted. They like to be able to let go off there mouth and speak how they want. Some might not like this but we can't please everyone in life. Some find it more easy to relate to someone who can curse every now and again than to someone whose parses their words all the time.

Words are powerful things but how you use the words matter much more than what words you use. Though certain words carry added effect this doesn't mean those words aren't as versatile as any other words when used properly. If you look at your own last example you did just didn't add in curse words but changed the entire tone of the sentence. Swears could be used in the first example and none in the second and all you lose is a bit of emphasize.

Spoiler for Hidden for sensitivity:
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Old 2010-01-30, 22:20   Link #118
Lio
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I expected you or somebody else might attack just about everything in my previous post. So, lets play!

Quote:
Which my deary, makes up a language, that's how humans communicate. Words are never stand alone, if they did, then we'd have no need for a dictionary to learn the definitions. Words and default meanings go hand in hand.
Ah, I wasn't talking about dictionary meanings. Dictionary meanings are what I call surface meanings, the definition of words.

Attaching meaning, on the other hand, is attachments you personally give to the word, as you demonstrated here:

Quote:
Simple. Because it's crude.
So the meaning you give certain words is that they're crude.

However,
Quote:
For you, you can brush it off which is fine, but it also prevents you from feeling the impact that they can give meaning for us to naturally react negatively to it means you deem us shallow, that's somewhat hypocritical, no?
I don't brush them off, as I specifically wrote earlier so people won't think I brush them off:
Quote:
But that's all just knee-jerk reactions from what they learned from other people in the past. I don't deny it, that's just how alot of people are. I watch the words I use to suit the social situation, but I personally don't have such a knee-jerk reaction to swearing as other people do.
I know and feel "the impact that they can give meaning for us to naturally react negatively to it", I'm acutely aware of its effects. I personally try not to feel those reactions unconsciously and so intensely. Why? Because those unconscious feelings are - unhealthy. This is a conversation on a completely different level for another time so I won't address is beyond that. Anyway, of course I don't deny the inherent force that certain words carry, nor that people have associations/attachments with them. That would just be stupid.

Moving on:
Quote:
Thirdly as you mentioned 'context', is also a cultural aspect.
Your first sentence either has the person lying or it’s purely 'sarcasm' and nothing else, which is why so so so many misunderstandings happen online when people read text.
It's no different for example, when I come indoors from a freezing cold day and say to a Japanese person:
'Man it's so warm today'
and they look at me, blink and say 'no it's not, it's really cold!'
We're talking on different levels here. I'm not concerned with online or cultural misunderstandings. I already stated that I don't deny the inherent force that certain words carry, so that's taken care of already.

Lets use my example:

Somebody can say "I love you" without meaning it at all. Perhaps they're saying it just out of duty, when in fact they don't care about the other person at all. This isn't uncommon, and happens in disfunctional families for very real reasons.
That's context.

You can also say "I fucking hate you!" to someone you're very comfortable with in a soft, calm voice, but filled with heart connection and love. Perhaps they did or said something that completely stole your heart, and while you're heart-connected to them, you say something like that from the depths of love. It's kind of like when a friend plays a silly prank on you to make you happy, and you say "Oh you fucker!" But it doesn't take a genius to understand the real meaning behind those words.
That's context.

So,
Quote:
'The soft summer breeze carressed her skin, carrying a sweet aroma such as sugar candy.'
vs
The bitter, biting wind tore into her skin, piercing her with knives of ice from the harsh cold temperatures.
descriptive language, imagery, fiction writing, that's all pretty basic, just the inherent force of words. I trust that you know by now I'm not really talking about that stuff.

Quote:
The English language is so messed up and so beautiful in it's diversity of 40,000 words or so, that to restrict your lexicon mainly to debase, crude terms only, least to how I feel, begins to drop IQ points from your level on first few impressions.
True in the context that using crude terms left and right without any intelligence. Which is why I wrote this line:
Quote:
But a person who consciously chooses to use specific words to convey a specific meaning or to have a specific effect, that's a completely different level of being.
Again,
Quote:
Swearing is sensitive (or strong) as such that to go around telling everyone, stranger or friend 'sup bitch', is gonna most likely get you ended up in hospital.
Not to mention that there is an alternative. If the situation warrants it, you can put someone down so harshly without having to utter a single curseword, that to me is seriously orgasmic. xD
You know that's not what I'm talking about. But on another note, putting someone down without uttering a single curse word really is a form of art. Not that I enjoy it.

So I'm looking through the rest of your post and I think I've straightened out the direction of the original conversation, most of it should be fairly clear now. I have to start it from an angle where the content won't be understood easily, and after somebody points to the surface details, bring it back to the core of the conversation and delve deeper. If I did straighten the conversation out a bit and you read my original post again, it should be alot more sense now. I find that this kind of contrast makes far more of a impact than to give everything all at once.

Lastly,
Quote:
Sex is just sex, however the terms
“Making love” vs “f@!king”, I think is safe to say, most of us know how the act of sex differs and what words are likely to be associated if we had to describe each scene.
"Dirty talk" is a perfect example of the default purpose of what swear words are used for.
Spoiler:
It's funny you brought this up. I was going to use a bedroom example as well.

It's pretty clear what people mean when we say “Making love” vs “f@!king”, but suppose you were to imagine you were with your lover, looking deeply into each other eyes. feeling each others hearts completely, in communion, with all boundaries dissolved, with no sense of separation remaining, and you say from the deepest place in your heart,


"I'm going to fuck you to death with my love."


Now, what is that?
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Old 2010-01-30, 22:48   Link #119
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Slick_rick View Post
I can honestly tell you that he was not much more aggressive purely through his foul language. His overall attitude and tone more conveyed his dislike of being in that situation more than anything else. He was interrupting them, talking over them, and talking down to them. None of these things require bad language at all. He could just have easily conveyed the same exact feelings without cursing he just chose to curse to add emphasize. You can curse without offending people, its not hard, people do it every day as they do the opposite too. Some people are offended with curses in particular but you can't really help that.

Honestly I find most of your other ramblings as superfluous. Yes, cursing is crude but like a lot of crude things it has it place in society. It's not something you want to use in the wrong situation but it can be beneficial also. Some people feel more comfortable in an environment where everything isn't so restricted. They like to be able to let go off there mouth and speak how they want. Some might not like this but we can't please everyone in life. Some find it more easy to relate to someone who can curse every now and again than to someone whose parses their words all the time.

Words are powerful things but how you use the words matter much more than what words you use. Though certain words carry added effect this doesn't mean those words aren't as versatile as any other words when used properly. If you look at your own last example you did just didn't add in curse words but changed the entire tone of the sentence. Swears could be used in the first example and none in the second and all you lose is a bit of emphasize.

Spoiler for Hidden for sensitivity:
The actions of the woman are the same. I mainly changed the tone by losing and using the swear words which as you said carry emphasis with it. In your sentence you added the expletive during the sweet scene, which raised the intensity level just a wee bit more then my original sentence purely by the word (and sound) of the F word.
If a voice actor was to read that scene, their voice would naturally stress on the 'f' word, despite the sentence/scene sounding soft.
And the second sentence now sounds tamer without the strongest expletive used for penis and the loss of the f word.
If I really need to keep it as nuetral as possible, then we'd have:
Spoiler:

Maybe those who aren't sensitive to swear words wouldn't really blink twice at the woman's words, but for those are are, it'd be a safe bet to say that the former sentence would send shivers of lust down someone's spine or get turned on just that little bit more.
She's asking for the same thing, but the nuance is different in both, the former carries that edge which is felt by people in more public situations than not.
In that sense, words are not just words as we both agree, they are powerful things.

So when a person is freely peppering their sentences with swear words here, there and everywhere, especially in neutral environments, that emphasis is constantly thrown out to the audience, it's offensive (in terms of being on the offensive), hence people can't help but feel to get defensive.

The dude really didn't wanna be playing monoploy, correct. He could have shown his dislike without using a single swear word and almost been just as aggressive, except that fact that swear words, given what their purpose and nature are, work 100 times better, are much more faster and that much more explicit in conveying just how strongly he felt then.
Because they carry that strength, is the reason why when used outside of an envrionment where it's considered the norm so people are desensitised, it's likely to cut some people.
Even if a person's tone is softer, the word itself it's still an expletive, the pronounciation of it, is still the same.
Hence why they're used, although the video itself was a pisstake on the foul, juvinile language used on online gaming, probably with FPS kinds, but it doesn't make it any more pleasant to read anymore than it's pleasant to hear it, with tone and all.

The original question raised was why would we judge or think negatively of people who use swearing more so generally, hence what the long ass explanation was for on a wide range of examples. What you've mentioned about having their place, I've already covered.
I even covered that it doesn't become offensive given that everyone in a certain environment is aware of way/frequency that it's used.
But they have a heads up on the matter, hence the difference. If it's to be used in art, out of courtesy typically there is a warning just so we get that heads up. Those who can't handle it then can leave.
When a person just swears as they like, we have that choice taken away from us, that's an imposition right there and then.

It's like brandishing a sharp knife. Whether they come at you swinging wildly, or whether they sneakily come near you and stab you, no matter how they do it (their style or the way they use it) you're still getting stabbed.
Does the person have 'free right' to brandish a knife, yeah but if someone isn’t accustomed to pain, that’s seriously gonna hurt.
Secondly if someone doesn’t wanna get accustomed to that kind pain so that they can become desensitised then it’d be out of courtesy for the knife wielder to sheathe it some.

In an environment like this where we only know each other as online acquaintances for most part, the playing field needs to be as neutral as possible for the fact that we are strangers for most part.
Those who curb their swearing somewhat when replying aren't going to offend anyone, however for someone to carelessly use it here, there and everywhere, especially without any significant purpose is gonna receive a few frowns or a negative feedback.

Edit:
Man, Lio I was replying to Slick Rick's repsonse which was the last one, so when I hit 'post' and if refreshed, yours appeared.
(meaning we were writing at the same time)
Give me some time to get around to yours and of course, using time to reply, but yes.
*takes her battle stance*
Let's play
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Last edited by Mystique; 2010-01-30 at 23:24.
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Old 2010-01-30, 22:54   Link #120
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I believe swearing has it's banes and boons, either to getting someone who's used to them comfortable, provoking people or alerting them into a serious conversation; however, most of the time in the public, it's corrosive.
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