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Old 2009-12-18, 18:58   Link #221
ChibiBear
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He reminds me of an older Ciel (<333) ^^ I actually have a theory of what would have happened if he was the culprit... But it's only really convincing to me
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Old 2009-12-19, 12:23   Link #222
CainSonozaki
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He reminds me of an older Ciel (<333) ^^ I actually have a theory of what would have happened if he was the culprit... But it's only really convincing to me
Even more suspicous. Maybe ciel grows up into kanon who grows up into lelouch :P
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Old 2009-12-19, 19:52   Link #223
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^
Now that would be awesome
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Old 2009-12-20, 06:13   Link #224
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Ciel....Kanon....Lelouch.... damn! xD
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Old 2009-12-20, 17:52   Link #225
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I've been watching this thread for a while now, and I'd like to post my theory.
Could the river be the Korea Strait? If so, Kinzo's hometown is possibly Tsushima Island?

If you go down the Korea Strait you end up in Jeju-do, but I'm not sure how you find the shore. Jeju-do is split up into two cities, which could be 'the two will tell you of'. I'm kind of stuck at this point but I do think the Korea Strait makes sense as a 'river in the ocean.' Any ideas?
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Old 2009-12-20, 18:14   Link #226
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That was one of the things I have also thought some time ago.

In the case of Tsuhsima Island, that is actually and archipelago with two main islands and a very small one just between the two of them.

So if the "village" is Tsushima and "the two" are the two main islands, then the "shore" is the island between them which is Shimayama.

"Shimayama" is not 6 letters, but if you read it in another way it becomes "Tousan" which is 6 letters in romaji.

That's as far as I could go with this reasoning.
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Old 2009-12-20, 23:31   Link #227
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I'm not knowledgeable in Japanese, but a quick online dictionary search told me that "tousan" means bankruptcy, which does represent the situation of a lot of Kinzo's children.

Alternatively "o" - tousan, for father, here referencing Kinzo.
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Old 2009-12-21, 00:02   Link #228
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I'm not knowledgeable in Japanese, but a quick online dictionary search told me that "tousan" means bankruptcy, which does represent the situation of a lot of Kinzo's children.

Alternatively "o" - tousan, for father, here referencing Kinzo.
I noticed the bankruptcy thing as well. It does fit...
Anyway, another idea for the epitaph.

I'm pretty sure straits are the right way to go. They make more sense to me than train... What about the La Perouse Strait? Kinzo's hometown might be Sakhalin. Originally, half of Sakhalin belonged to Russia, and half belonged to Japan. However, in 1949 all the Japanese were expelled and forced to leave. Though, I haven't figured out much from there.
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Old 2009-12-21, 00:07   Link #229
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What about the Tsugaru Strait? I believe you could represent it as Tsu-ga-ru Ka-i-kyō, which is six letters.

Edit: Furthermore, I was rereading part of Episode 3 and found something interesting - but the first post says there are no VN spoilers at all for here. Where should I go then?
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Old 2009-12-21, 00:14   Link #230
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What about the Tsugaru Strait? I believe you could represent it as Tsu-ga-ru Ka-i-kyō, which is six letters.
I'm sure you could try any of the straits, I just chose La Perouse because of Sakhalin and its two halves. The halves could be 'the two will tell you of'.
Also, Kaikyō would be written かいきょ, which is four characters. This means Tsugaru Kaikyo would end up as seven characters.
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Old 2009-12-21, 01:22   Link #231
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Edit: Furthermore, I was rereading part of Episode 3 and found something interesting - but the first post says there are no VN spoilers at all for here. Where should I go then?
The thread for discussing the VN Episode 3 sounds like the best place.
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Old 2009-12-21, 06:04   Link #232
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What about the Tsugaru Strait? I believe you could represent it as Tsu-ga-ru Ka-i-kyō, which is six letters.

Edit: Furthermore, I was rereading part of Episode 3 and found something interesting - but the first post says there are no VN spoilers at all for here. Where should I go then?
It is allowed to speak about things that were said in the novel as long as the anime already got to that point.

Basically what must be avoided is to give to the anime watchers informations that they aren't supposed to know. As long as you respect that, telling them info that were said in the novels but omitted in the anime is the same as receiving further informations that are disclosed by Ryukishi in interviews.

However in case an anime watcher is planning to read the novel and doesn't want to get such info until that, it is better to use spoiler tags, those are allowed as long as they aren't things that come from a point of the story that wasn't covered by the anime yet.
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Old 2009-12-21, 14:02   Link #233
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It is allowed to speak about things that were said in the novel as long as the anime already got to that point.

Basically what must be avoided is to give to the anime watchers informations that they aren't supposed to know. As long as you respect that, telling them info that were said in the novels but omitted in the anime is the same as receiving further informations that are disclosed by Ryukishi in interviews.

However in case an anime watcher is planning to read the novel and doesn't want to get such info until that, it is better to use spoiler tags, those are allowed as long as they aren't things that come from a point of the story that wasn't covered by the anime yet.
Ok, thanks. What I was concerned about was this scene from EP3:

Spoiler for EP3 'Key to the Golden Land':
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Old 2009-12-21, 14:19   Link #234
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Ok, thanks. What I was concerned about was this scene from EP3:

Spoiler for EP3 'Key to the Golden Land':
Great catch!
Spoiler for EP3 Kinzo's Hometown:
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Old 2009-12-21, 17:34   Link #235
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I don't know why Kinzo should actually have lived in another place outside of Japan. Yes Ryukishi implied that we should think about the actuall size of Japan during the times of the Pacific war...but I don't see why it should be unknown where he was born, he would have to actually change the family register and other stuff.

There were many towns and cities that were caught up in the bombing during the final weeks of the war. There was of course concentration on the big cities, but that didn't make sure that no smaller cities were hit.
It was similar around Germany when they began dropping bombs when even suspecting that tehre could be war-industry in the sorrounding regions...in a 'just to make sure' way.
Back then a bomb induced fire meant quite a lot of damage to a city and many places were demolished by that....so I think that we are thinking a bit too far away.

Not that I would see any gain in the river being in some different place and the hometown being somewhere else...what do we gain through that, when the gold is still hidden on Rokkenjima?
Eva-Beatrice said something about 'being able to read something differently' so we at least have to be talking about a place that can be expressed in Kanji.
(But I have to admit I don't know how many countries and places that were taken in by the Japanese sphere at that time gained 'Japanese names' and if any got something like that).
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Old 2009-12-21, 18:13   Link #236
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I'm not utterly convinced that its Sakhalin, but some of the hints point that way.

If people like to consider a railway being the river, there is the Sakhalin Railway which starts in Nogliki and ends in Korsakov.

It should be noted that most of the originally Japanese countries do have Japanese names. One example is Kurilsk, which is written as 紗那村, or Shana. This means you should have FOUR ways of writing the name, in English, in Russian, in Japanese and in Romaji.

Also, Korsakov's coat of arms is three keys. :P
Coincidence?

Last edited by Falsetto; 2009-12-21 at 19:54.
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Old 2009-12-22, 00:43   Link #237
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It should be noted that most of the originally Japanese countries do have Japanese names.
Originally Japanese as in 'united under the japanese empire during the co-prosperity sphere'? Just to make sure we're talking about the same thing.

Quote:
Also, Korsakov's coat of arms is three keys. :P
Coincidence?
Coincidence. Big hint. Big red herring on a witch's broom.
Many things are possible in Umineko.
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Old 2009-12-22, 03:23   Link #238
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Ok, thanks. What I was concerned about was this scene from EP3:

Spoiler for EP3 'Key to the Golden Land':
You know, for a long time I thought they were talking about Odawara there, but now I can see clearly that they are talking about the place Kinzo was living in as a boy. It just seemed way to strange to me that they talk about it without ever telling the name, even so Kyrie keeps asking that.

Anyway this doesn't rule out Taiwan at all. There was a very long civil war in Taiwan and it did underwent a drastic change in urban development.
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Old 2009-12-22, 04:34   Link #239
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
You know, for a long time I thought they were talking about Odawara there, but now I can see clearly that they are talking about the place Kinzo was living in as a boy. It just seemed way to strange to me that they talk about it without ever telling the name, even so Kyrie keeps asking that.

Anyway this doesn't rule out Taiwan at all. There was a very long civil war in Taiwan and it did underwent a drastic change in urban development.
You would actually have to bring in at least Iwo Jima and Okinawa into the discussion in that case.
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Old 2009-12-24, 18:17   Link #240
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I always thought about Okinawa, since ryukishi seems to have a thing with islands (rebun, yonaguni, etc.)

But karafuto (sakhalin) is also a very good guess.

Here is a useful picture of the Japanese empire:



So taiwan and sakhalin (karafuto) are likely, but has anyone thought of korea? korea would have been under Japanese rule at this time.
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