AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 2010-01-06, 15:13   Link #281
Zork
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Like I said, I was pretty sure it wasn't the right way to go but I just had to point it out because it's amusing.

Kishin: It's 里 which is used for village elsewhere in the epitaph, and also the reason they look at Maria's name in the first place. The fact that the translation software I used said it could also mean hometown makes me wonder if it isn't a convoluted play on words. I'm also still curious as to whether there is some real meaning to 亞.
Zork is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-06, 15:37   Link #282
Kishin
Hanyuu's #1 Fan
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Age: 21
I couldv sworn they mentioned the meaning in the vn... maybe its just cuz it looks like a cross and they mentioned that point that im mixing it up with
__________________
Signature removed. Please check the forum signature rules before trying to upload another one. If you have questions, feel free to contact a mod through PM.
Kishin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-07, 05:36   Link #283
Dlanor A. Knox
Crazy but OK xP
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
wasn't 亞 also in Maria's name? ( I'm not good in remembering things ^^;; ))
Dlanor A. Knox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-07, 05:42   Link #284
Dlanor .A. Nox
The Death!
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Purgatorio
Yep that cross is in Maria's name. Heh...Dlanor. XD
__________________
http://forums.animesuki.com/images/as.icon/signaturepics/sigpic100082_1.gif
Dlanor .A. Nox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-07, 05:45   Link #285
Dlanor A. Knox
Crazy but OK xP
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Netherlands
Age: 22
Ah~good I really tought it was my brains that where messed up again xD
.... twins!!
Dlanor A. Knox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-13, 06:51   Link #286
Dr. Akagi
Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Random epitaph ramblings

Not sure if the following constitutes spoilers since the anime is already over, 2nd season of anime is unlikely and anime screwed up the epitaph topic badly. Anyways, feel free to move this post to the Spoilers and Speculations thread should the need arise.

First of all, some general thoughts.

I do believe that the location of the Golden Land is Quwadorian, that similarity of Quwadorian to “quadrillion” in the Chapel’s inscription is intentional, and that the entrance to the road (tunnel?) to Quwadorian is located inside the Chapel (which, by the way, conveniently solves the Chapel’s closed room from Episode 2 since the culprit could have used the Quwadorian tunnel as means of access/exit to/from the Chapel, especially since the presence of the gold in the Chapel proves that the culprit had already solved the epitaph by 24-00 on October 4).

And now let’s move on to my very own crazy epitaph theorizing:

I’ve recently had the pleasure of reading the excellent Jan-Poo’s “railway” epitaph theory.
For the most part it strikes me as reasonable as the parts involving the existence of a certain 11/13-character “master string” (“quadrillion” in Jan-Poo’s theory) and 6-character “key string” (“liquid” in Jan-Poo’s theory) have been confirmed in the SN by this time.

One thing has been bothering me, though:

the honorable name Jan-Poo has ended up with (LORNA or RONAL) just doesn’t seem to make much sense to me.

Any way you look at it, the honorable name to be “praised on high” should only reasonably belong to the person who wrote the epitaph, i.e. Kinzo himself.

And that got me thinking. Why include that line about name praising at all, since at the first glance it doesn’t seem to add anything useful to the “killing off characters in the keyword”-pattern neatly established in the lines of the epitaph both immediately preceding and (probably) following that one line.

That was when the following occurred to me:

immediately after the line about “praising (Kinzo’s ?) name” we have 5 lines telling us to gouge different parts of the body. What if the gouging to be performed actually applies to the name itself? But wait, where are we supposed to locate the head, stomach etc. in the name “Kinzo”? Seems strange, but only until you write “Kinzo” as follows:


Spoiler for Ready, Set, Gouge!:




Then, if you respectively gouge the head (“O”), the chest (“I”), the stomach (“I” again), the knee (“K”) and the leg (“K” again), you’ll end up with the following character sequence: OIIKK or, alternatively, 011KK.

I’m not sure what’s the meaning of this sequence is and where or how it should be applied; however, I’ve come up with the 3 theories.

Theory 1. The string of characters obtained from gouging the name “Kinzo” should be added to the 5 (?) characters already obtained by eliminating of the “key character string” from the “master key string” to form together some kind of anagram to be solved.

Theory 2. The lines above the one urging to praise the name have been interpreted incorrectly (SN including), mean something different altogether and the actual “killing characters from words” part only applies to lines including and below the name-praising line. (I’ll admit this theory seems kinda far-fetched after Episode 5).

Theory 3. The lines above the one urging to praise the name have been interpreted correctly (SN including), but no one has yet managed to discover the correct “master character string” and “key character string” (whether they are in Japanese, English or some other language). It is quite possible then, that with the correct character strings used the resulting 5-character word may turn out to be “Kinzo” after all when written in English. Then, the gouging can be performed with the final result of OIKK or 011KK.

Now moving to the possible meaning of OIIKK or 011KK. Frankly, it baffles me, though I’ve managed to come up with one crazy (albeit fun) theory. You see, there lived this one (conveniently Italian) composer Domenico Scarlatti, who during his life wrote numerous sonatas for harpsichord. And the thing is, his works were so numerous, that a cataloguing system had to be invented for them by one Ralph Kirkpatrick. So nowadays, all Scarlatti sonatas are referenced by their corresponding Kirkpatrick number (or KK for short). Thus, 011KK means simply Sonata in C minor, Allegro by Domenico Scarlatti. Needless to say, when Battler locates the corresponding recording in his grandfather’s vast recording collection of “old, pompous music”, he’s in for a “musical” experience of a lifetime. Simply by the existence of the Kirkpatrick numbering system, this level of reasoning is possible for Akagi Ritsuko.

What do you think, everyone Jan-Poo?
__________________
Dlanor A. Knox: Great Equalizer is the Death!
Erika Furudo: Take that, dead people!

Death and its implications as viewed by the Umineko No Naku Koro Ni characters.

Last edited by Dr. Akagi; 2010-01-13 at 08:58.
Dr. Akagi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-13, 08:41   Link #287
Raneh
Storyteller
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr. Akagi View Post
I do believe that the location of the Golden Land is Quwadorian, that similarity of Quwadorian to “quadrillion” in the Chapel’s inscription is intentional, and that the entrance to the road (tunnel?) to Quwadorian is located inside the Chapel (which, by the way, conveniently solves the Chapel’s closed room from Episode 2 since the culprit could have used the Quwadorian tunnel as means of access/exit to/from the Chapel, especially since the presence of the gold in the Chapel proves that the culprit had already solved the epitaph by 24-00 on October 4).
This certain red text causes a problem:
When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit
So basically exiting the chapel through the tunnel would be impossible if the chapel door (front door) is locked. It doesn't really make sense if the chapel door has to be open as well to be able to enter the tunnel.

PS. Your 'Ready, Set, Gouge!' picture isn't working.
__________________
Raneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-13, 09:01   Link #288
Dr. Akagi
Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Fixed the pic, thank you.
__________________
Dlanor A. Knox: Great Equalizer is the Death!
Erika Furudo: Take that, dead people!

Death and its implications as viewed by the Umineko No Naku Koro Ni characters.
Dr. Akagi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-13, 12:36   Link #289
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Eh I agree that "Lorna Ronal" doesn't make much sense, that's the weakest point in my theory. The picture you made is rather childish, but then again Eva says it is like that. It is embedded in the japanese culture to put characters together to form bodies and faces, though that usually happens with hiragana, with the notable exception "orz".

The only major problem I see is that the whole reasoning assumes that in the end "none shall be left alive". In your theory the K and the N never get gouged. Well in the first place the whole theory that the starting sentence must be 13 or 11 characters decays if we question the assumption that the ten twilights are telling you to kill characters from a string until nothing is left. And if the starting sentence is "Quadrillion" there are two "i" and "o" but there are not two "k". Even if it is "Kuwadorian" there's only only one "k"
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-13, 19:51   Link #290
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
At the first twilight, you shall lift up as sacrifice the six chosen by the key.
At the second twilight, the surviving shall tear apart the two who are close.
At the third twilight, the surviving shall praise my honorable name on high.
At the fourth twilight, gouge the head and kill.
At the fifth twilight, gouge the chest and kill.
At the sixth twilight, gouge the belly and kill.
At the seventh twilight, gouge the knee and kill.
At the eighth twilight, gouge the leg and kill.
At the ninth twilight, the Witch shall live again and none shall be left to live.

1st - 6
2nd- 0 or 2
3rd- 0
4th- 1
5th- 1
6th- 1
7th- 1
8th- 1
So we get 6+1+1+1+1+1+0=11 or 6+1+1+1+1+1+2=13
Nothing decays, the reasoning still stands that the key phrase should have 11 or 13 characters.
Funny coincidence, 'broken promise' is 13 letters, too bad that is using English.

Last edited by Smeckledorf; 2010-01-13 at 20:06.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-14, 21:56   Link #291
TheWatcher
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Look outside
Raneh just because When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit Doesn't mean that there is no hidden rooms...
TheWatcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-14, 22:10   Link #292
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post
Raneh just because When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit Doesn't mean that there is no hidden rooms...
Pretty much.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 03:09   Link #293
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Since the beginning I always thought that the chapel is a sort of starting point not exactly the place where the gold is found. In other words the door to the gold can be somewhere near the chapel and not inside the chapel itself.
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 04:23   Link #294
Uchiha Soul
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
after the end of season one .. i realized that the story is not difficult as we thought .. the whole idea is about the the culprit/s and the reason of the crime .. i guess the writers used all these magic things and large number of characters just to misdirect us and make us think in different ways.

the tunnels idea solve all the problems .. if there are tunnels then it must be at least 3 or 4 exits that the culprit/s used in moving.
One of 2 is the culprit, Kanon or Shannon.
Uchiha Soul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 04:42   Link #295
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Ok, I found the different romaji for shore then I searched a list of japanese cities for the different words which yielded less than favorable results. Then I searched ni for two and found nishiki and shiki does not mean shore but kishi to my understanding does. So Nishiki could mean the shore the two spoke of. So then I googled Nishiki and found Nishiki Market in Kyoto which has a subway line close to it. This is where I am really in a bad place. I cannot find a solution to the word village. I found Shijo is the closest stop and Shijo means whole town but I really don't think that is close enough.
But in my line of reasoning, one of the northern stations would be located inside of Kinzo's hometown. The content past the anime hurts my reasoning a bit, too. I am also not sure if anyone came up with something close to this before.
Anyways, if there has to be a six letter key then you can get 'market' in english. And the big problem arises now, I cannot think of a 11 or 13 letter word in romaji or english that has the same letters as 'market' in it.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 04:44   Link #296
ChibiBear
Aim's Stalker ^_~
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Australia
Age: 19
Send a message via MSN to ChibiBear
^
^
You think the same way as me lol I've been considering the demons and magic as just stuff to distract us from what's really happening.
__________________
Meow meow nano desu~ Nipah~
ChibiBear is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 06:39   Link #297
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
Quote:
Anyways, if there has to be a six letter key then you can get 'market' in english. And the big problem arises now, I cannot think of a 11 or 13 letter word in romaji or english that has the same letters as 'market' in it.
It doesn't need to be a "single" word, there can be two or more and it might even be a name.
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 06:52   Link #298
Raneh
Storyteller
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatcher View Post
Raneh just because When the door to the chapel is locked, it prevents any and all methods of entry or exit Doesn't mean that there is no hidden rooms...
He was talking about a tunnel system somewhere which he could use to exit/enter the chapel and that red blocks it. But I guess a hidden room would avoid that red.


Here's a wild idea that popped on my mind earlier today. This is based on Dante's Divine Comedy which has influenced Umineko's story.
I read a little about Dante Alighieri and I found a few fitting things. Dante met Beatrice in Florence, Italy, which he calls his hometown
Quote:
she and Dante frequented parts of Florence, his home city, where he thought he might catch even a glimpse of her. As he did so, he made great efforts to ensure his thoughts of Beatrice remained private, even writing poetry for another lady, so as to use her as a "screen for the truth".
I checked where Florence is located and found out it's built by a river, River Arno. It passes through Florence. Sounds much like
Quote:
My beloved hometown, the sweetfish river running through it.
I don't really know how to do the village and shore thing but if anyone wants to check it, feel free to do so.
__________________

Last edited by Raneh; 2010-01-15 at 07:03.
Raneh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 07:25   Link #299
Smeckledorf
Intellectual Rapist
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: 3 12151805142615
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
It doesn't need to be a "single" word, there can be two or more and it might even be a name.
My bad, I knew that but did not express it correctly. And making it more than one word still has not helped. lol
Be sure to tell me if anything good comes to mind. I almost thought Rokkenjima with another 3 letter word would work but I did not find a good solution to that. Then again, the 3 letter word needed a 't' and I could only think of 'tea' to try. Maybe cat pet bet set tan etc.
Smeckledorf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 2010-01-15, 08:23   Link #300
Jan-Poo
別にいいけど
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: forever lost inside a logic error
To be honest I am quite stuck at this point, the best I could do is in the post linked in my signature and I know it isn't completely right, if not totally wrong...

the first part of the epitaph has been analyzed a lot of times, you can find thousands of different interpretations that will lead to a 6 letters word and that more or less matches with the elements we have.

I don't expect to be really something that when you see you think "oh this is definitely the right one!". The very fact that someone (according to Ryukishi) has found it already but there isn't a theory that has been universally considered as definitely true, proves this point.

So we don't really have a way to tell which among the many possibilities is the right one. The only way to go on then is to make it work with the rest of the epitaph.

The best "testing ground" then is the second part of the epitaph. Probably the best point to start from is the "honorable name" that must be "praised" on the third twilight. It must be 5 letter long and somehow it must make sense.

Kinzo is what strikes me as the most probable, however the letters that form it are difficult to find in a string of 11/13 characters.
The Qilian theory proposes "Lord U", which is a funny way to interpret this passage, but yet interesting.
The other possibility is that the "name" is something we know nothing about, this would be the worst possible scenario.

Soon after the name the most important thing to find is the initial string. It is almost certain that it must be either 11 or 13 letters long and that it is probably in english or anyway in romaji.

What might be a very good hint is the internal dialogue between Eva and Young Eva.

"Are you sure you don't know it? Throw away your awe for father, riddles are childish, worthless..."

Does the childish part refers specifically to the initial string or was it said in general? Because "quadrillion" doesn't sound that childish to me. However quadrillion so far seems a pretty reasonable starting string.
__________________

Jan-Poo is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 18:25.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.