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Old 2010-06-18, 01:50   Link #421
Thunder Book
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You know, I always did think that was a weird tip. It never really gave us information I deemed important, useful, or completely necessary, and the fact that you don't get it until after Episode 1 (I think) makes it even stranger.
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Old 2010-06-18, 13:04   Link #422
TTR
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Oh, it gives us a few hints actually:

it doesn't really belong here, so I'm cutting and pasting it into the Game Spoiler thread.
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Old 2010-06-18, 14:23   Link #423
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I've been thinking.. This is has probably been stated by others but.

Is it possible that the 'river' is actually a tram line? It is shapped like a river, and the part 'sweetfish' might be a metaphor for commonfolk. Since it is a fish commoners eat.
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Old 2010-06-18, 14:37   Link #424
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Hey, I thought most people have settled on the Taiwan theory by now? In that case then yes, definitely the river is the Danshui ('Fresh Water') river that was in Qilian (which is around Taipei but back then it was probably an outlying town.)

That river was called 淡水 <-- meaning "flavorless" "water"

This is why the epitaph calls it 'Sweetfish' ... which is really the fish called Ayu.
鮎 [あゆ] (n) sweetfish (freshwater trout)

I don't know all the places where they live but the river that runs from Gifu up to Shirakawago (the site that Ryukishi picked for Higurashi) definitely had Ayu in them. We had a taste of bbq and sashimi Ayu before. It really is 'sweet', probably because the fish doesn't have a concentration of salt in it like fish from the sea.

Anyways, one of the properties of Ayu is that it is silverish in color. I thought this was supposed to be an analogy for the metal that trains were made out of.
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Old 2010-06-18, 16:06   Link #425
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laserworm View Post
I've been thinking.. This is has probably been stated by others but.

Is it possible that the 'river' is actually a tram line? It is shapped like a river, and the part 'sweetfish' might be a metaphor for commonfolk. Since it is a fish commoners eat.
Well Eva solved it by thinking that "the river is not really a river". In other words it's a metaphor. So the conclusion people came to was train tracks. Trains go back and forth just like fish do. That's what the Taiwan and Quilan theory are about.
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Old 2010-06-18, 16:22   Link #426
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Ahh ok. This is the first time I really even thought about the epitath. And the first time I read any post about it. And I thought that maybe the 'sweetfish' was a reference to common people. Since they mentioned that sweetfish was a commoners dish.

What are the Taiwan and Quilan theories?
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Old 2010-06-18, 16:59   Link #427
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you can see an explanation here:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...&postcount=411
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Old 2010-06-20, 15:34   Link #428
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ISTR somebody giving an explanation of the epitaph involving railroads and a stop on the railroad with a name similar to Ougon no Kyou. Anybody remember it?
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Old 2010-06-20, 15:48   Link #429
Jan-Poo
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that was me, it's the "kogane theory"

you can find it here:

http://forums.animesuki.com/showpost...postcount=1137
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Old 2010-06-21, 14:58   Link #430
Shiro Kaisen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
I'm on a certain path now and I'm trying to figure out if it can lead somewhere or not, however I think I'll need some help because I'm kinda stuck.

Now this path is based on something that never really appeared in any game so I don't know if I should consider it a spoiler or not. It appears on the EP6 code program, but not in the actual game, it isn't even hinted... so well anyway I'll put it under spoiler anyway

Spoiler for kinda:


I think you're barking up the wrong tree, honestly. "LIG" is pretty clearly referring to Wizard Hunting Wright and his twenty wedges. We already have Knox, so it's totally plausible we'll get Van Dine as well. The TIPS never namedrop something we don't see later. Beato even mentions both of them in Episode 2.

"Who was it who said secret passages were forbidden? Knox? Or was it Van Dine...?"

(might be a little off, but that's basically the quote)

I admire the fact that you made it work that far, though.

I'm pretty sold on the Kogane Line theory myself.
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Old 2010-06-21, 21:48   Link #431
Kylon99
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Originally Posted by Shiro Kaisen View Post
I'm pretty sold on the Kogane Line theory myself.
Didn't Ryukishi tell us to look at the territorial boundaries and occupation of Imperial Japan in 1923 for Kinzo's hometown though? (The year of the Great Kanto Earthquake) I don't think he would tell us to look at that whole boundary if he meant for us to just look inside. And Hokkaido is well within Japan's modern boundary.

I would place greater emphasis on the Taiwan or even the Korea theory though.

Besides, Ryukishi said the epitaph was 99% solved awhile ago; I don't think the Kogane theory was ever presented in Japanese.... 8)
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Old 2010-06-22, 14:29   Link #432
Shiro Kaisen
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Originally Posted by Kylon99 View Post
Didn't Ryukishi tell us to look at the territorial boundaries and occupation of Imperial Japan in 1923 for Kinzo's hometown though? (The year of the Great Kanto Earthquake) I don't think he would tell us to look at that whole boundary if he meant for us to just look inside. And Hokkaido is well within Japan's modern boundary.

I would place greater emphasis on the Taiwan or even the Korea theory though.

Besides, Ryukishi said the epitaph was 99% solved awhile ago; I don't think the Kogane theory was ever presented in Japanese.... 8)

I'm pretty sure the Kogane theory was presented at some point in Japanese too, basically every thought process presented in the English community has been presented in the Japanese community as well.

Though if not the Kogane theory, the Taiwan one is probably it.
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Old 2010-06-23, 07:32   Link #433
Jan-Poo
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Didn't Ryukishi tell us to look at the territorial boundaries and occupation of Imperial Japan in 1923 for Kinzo's hometown though?
He didn't actually say so. He was very vague, unless you are talking about another interview I don't know about. But if it's the one I saw, he was simply making speculations in a very ambiguous way talking about how one would try to find Kinzo hometown between the boundaries of yonaguni and rebun island.

This might be a hint that you need to think about a wider territory, supposing that Ryukishi is expecting people to use their brain and realize that when Kinzo was young yonaguni wasn't the western most tip of Japan at all.

Or maybe he teased us again shoving "rebun" in our face, in what was an answer about a question on the epitaph.

Quote:
'm pretty sure the Kogane theory was presented at some point in Japanese too
Yes, I've seen it. Almost identical to my theory minus the "liquid" part. The Japanese guy only though about the twins being the two volcano in the bay. But he did use the names of the stations as hints to follow to reach the gold.

This theory however is a lot less popular and less known than the qilian theory.
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Old 2010-06-28, 05:39   Link #434
Dlanor A. Knox
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I wonder which theory has solved 99% of the etitaph...
And I wonder what the unsolved 1% is....
Anyway that person who made the theory might not even know it him/herself about being sooo close to solving it
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Old 2010-06-28, 06:16   Link #435
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The 1% was said that you actually have to be on the island to know. I assume this means how it applies to the location of the gold. I think he was vague like Jan-Poo said though. If I remember correctly it sounded more like he presented enough clues up to that point to where you could almost completely solve the epitaph.
However, the Taiwan theory seems pretty solid.
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Old 2010-06-28, 06:29   Link #436
Dlanor A. Knox
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Ah~ Now I get it xD
Thanks
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Old 2010-06-28, 14:06   Link #437
Jan-Poo
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Copy and paste from the spoiler thread where I examined all the possible combinations to end with "two close" letters and all else separated starting from "quadrillion".

First we need to consider some facts:
Either the two who are close are the two "l", or at least three among the "illi" characters must be eliminated. Else there wouldn't be a compulsory couple of two close letters. It could be "_li_" but also "_l_i" or "i_l_". At any rate if the riddle is well made, such an occurrence shouldn't be possible.
There is however the special case where both "ll" are eliminated and the "i" are not, however in this case we'd have already 4 automatic exclusions.


case one: "ll" are the two who are close (both "i" must be eliminated)


q_a_r_ll___ --- udiion
_u_d__ll_o_ --- qariin
_u__r_ll_o_ --- qadiin
q_a___ll_o_ --- udriin
q__d__ll_o_ --- uariin
q___r_ll_o_ --- uadiin
__a_r_ll_o_ --- qudiin
_u_d__ll_o_ --- qariin
_u__r_ll__n --- qadiio
q_a___ll__n --- udriio
q__d__ll__n --- uariio
q___r_ll__n --- uadiio
__a_r_ll__n --- qudiio


case two: both "i" are are kept ("r", "o" and the two "l" are eliminated)


qu___i__i_n --- adrllo
qu_d_i__i__ --- arllon
_ua__i__i_n --- qdrllo
__ad_i__i_n --- qurllo
q_ad_i__i__ --- urllon


case three: both "i" are are kept and "ri" are the two who are close ("d", "o" and the two "l" are eliminated)


q___ri__i_n --- uadllo
_u__ri__i_n --- qadllo
__a_ri__i_n --- qudllo
q_a_ri__i__ --- udllon


case four: both "i" are are kept and "io" are the two who are close ("r", "n" and the two "l" are eliminated)


q__d_i__io_ --- uarlln


that's it....

case five: both "i" and one "l" are eliminated


q___r_l__on --- uadili
_u__r_l__on --- qadili
__a_r_l__on --- qudili <- kogane theory
qu__r_l__o_ --- adilin
qu_d__l__o_ --- arilin
_ua_r_l__o_ --- qdilin
q_ad__l__o_ --- urilin
q__dr_l__o_ --- uailin
_u_dr_l__o_ --- qailin <- qilian theory
qu__r_l___n --- adilio
qu_d__l___n --- arilio
_ua_r_l___n --- qdilio
q_ad__l___n --- urilio
q__dr_l___n --- uailio
_u_dr_l___n --- qailio


case six: both "l" and one "i" are eliminated "r" and "o" must be eliminated as well because else you wouldn't have a compulsory couple or you might have two of them.


qu_d_i____n --- arllin
q_ad_i____n --- urllin


case seven: both "i" and "l" are eliminated


q_a_r____on --- udilli


that's it...

I think this should cover them all if "quadrillion" is the starting sentence.

tell me if you think I missed something.




And now the 41 possible combinations ordered by "couple"


qu___i__i_n --- adrllo
qu_d_i__i__ --- arllon
qu__r_l__o_ --- adilin
qu_d__l__o_ --- arilin
qu__r_l___n --- adilio
qu_d__l___n --- arilio
qu_d_i____n --- arllin
_ua__i__i_n --- qdrllo
_ua_r_l__o_ --- qdilin
_ua_r_l___n --- qdilio
__ad_i__i_n --- qurllo
q_ad_i__i__ --- urllon
q_ad__l__o_ --- urilin
q_ad__l___n --- urilio
q_ad_i____n --- urllin
q__dr_l__o_ --- uailin
_u_dr_l__o_ --- qailin
q__dr_l___n --- uailio
_u_dr_l___n --- qailio
q___ri__i_n --- uadllo
_u__ri__i_n --- qadllo
__a_ri__i_n --- qudllo
q_a_ri__i__ --- udllon
q_a_r_ll___ --- udiion
_u_d__ll_o_ --- qariin
_u__r_ll_o_ --- qadiin
q_a___ll_o_ --- udriin
q__d__ll_o_ --- uariin
q___r_ll_o_ --- uadiin
__a_r_ll_o_ --- qudiin
_u_d__ll_o_ --- qariin
_u__r_ll__n --- qadiio
q_a___ll__n --- udriio
q__d__ll__n --- uariio
q___r_ll__n --- uadiio
__a_r_ll__n --- qudiio
q__d_i__io_ --- uarlln
q___r_l__on --- uadili
_u__r_l__on --- qadili
__a_r_l__on --- qudili
q_a_r____on --- udilli
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Old 2010-06-28, 15:58   Link #438
DgBarca
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In EP5 Battler say that the key shall be 11 or 13 letter long
Quadrillion is 11 letter long but not 13.
As the door have ONE CHANCE OVER a quadrillion, I think it is Quadrillionth.
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Old 2010-06-28, 16:20   Link #439
Oliver
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Originally Posted by DgBarca View Post
In EP5 Battler say that the key shall be 11 or 13 letter long
Quadrillion is 11 letter long but not 13.
As the door have ONE CHANCE OVER a quadrillion, I think it is Quadrillionth.
With Qilian as the key, you end up with an uncertainity: u dr l o th. There are two pairs which are "two who are close". But it produces interesting anagrams:

HOLD RUT, HURD LOT, OLD HURT, OLD RUTH, LORD HUT, DOT HURL.

Assuming the condition "No two 'who are close' must remain close after permutation" for the second twilight, we're left with:

HOLD RUT, HURD LOT, OLD HURT, LORD HUT, DOT HURL if the two who are close are TH, and
OLD HURT, DOT HURL if the two who are close are DR.

OLD HURT and DOT HURL are the only ones that fit both conditions.

If we remove the "TH" after that, we're back to "LORD U", so it still fits, the question is, can any of those two remaining anagrams be useful.

If we remove the RD after that, we get ULOTH as the remaining letters, which produces no interesting permutations that I can see.

P.S. LORD HUT sounds suspiciously like Kinzo's study, only, as far as we know, the way to the gold isn't anywhere near it... unless there's something else on the island that could be called "LORD HUT". Maybe that gazebo that keeps coming up?...
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This link has been determined hazardous for the spoiler averse
by the Department of Education.
(updated 2010-08-24)
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Old 2010-06-28, 16:25   Link #440
Jan-Poo
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with "quadrillionth" the possible combinations are actually very very few, because it's a lot harder to separate all characters except two by removing 6 among 13 rather than 6 among 11.

q_a_r_ll_o_t_ --- udiinh
q_a_r_ll__n_h --- udiiot
q_a_r_ll_o__h --- udiint
qu_d_i__i_n_h --- arllot
q_ad_i__i_n_h --- urllot <- yes the key is "troll u"!!!
q_a_ri__i_n_h --- udllot
q_a_r_l__on_h --- udilit
q_a_r_l__o_th --- udilin
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