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Old 2009-06-10, 23:57   Link #41
james0246
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^Yeah, I'm expecting Chopper to appear next, followed by Nami, then Franky, Brooke, and then finally Zoro (who I still think will get and actual chapter, or at least a few panels).
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Old 2009-06-11, 00:36   Link #42
marvelB
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Intimidation isn't the same as Haki.

Thats why what CA says in the thread is wrong.

If a gangster came up to me threatening to beat me up, would i faint? I think not. No I might get scared, I might run away or I might decide to stand up to the guy and fight, but I wouldn't faint.

More importantly, you can't imbue 'intimidation' or 'ambition' on a weapon can you? You can't because they are abstract concepts. Haki is just a plot device. I don't understand why you people keep trying to rationalize it or connect it with some real life concept.

C.As post is PURE speculation. I wish people would stop treating it like it was fact.

THanks.


Even putting aside what C.A. said, the concept still makes sense from the series' standpoint. Pretty much THE most reoccurring theme throughout the series is the fact that the main characters are all following their dreams and ambitions. Those with a strong will are able to overcome all odds while those with weak wills are.... well, less fortunate. The Jaya arc is a particularly good example of a storyline that involves the clashing of those two opposing forces. So again, I have no problems with Haki since it's been a part of the series since the very first chapter. Sure, making a room full of people collapse and strengthening weapons with your "will" may be exaggerating things a bit, but hey, we all like to take liberties with fiction, right? Despite that, there hasn't been anything to suggest that Haki makes DF powers the least bit obsolete, so I see nothing to complain about.


And on that note, I end my little debate. I have no intention of debating the subject any further, and suggest to anyone who wishes to do so to go to this thread instead, seeing as that's kinda why it was created in the first place.....




And now, back to the chapter at hand: I actually rather like the design of the rebel guy with the bowler hat that Robin met up with in the ministory. I actually wonder if he'll have any significance later on (like he's revealed to be one of Dragon's top soldiers or something)....?
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Old 2009-06-11, 00:42   Link #43
james0246
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Originally Posted by marvelB View Post
And now, back to the chapter at hand: I actually rather like the design of the rebel guy with the bowler hat that Robin met up with in the ministory. I actually wonder if he'll have any significance later on (like he's revealed to be one of Dragon's top soldiers or something)....?
I kind of hope not. But, that being said, it really depends on whether or not Tequila Wolf is a major-ish prison camp. If it is important, then I expect Dragon would send a competent soldier to lead the troops, but if it was a minor prison camp, which it appeared to be, then probably the soldier in the bowler hat, will be somewhat unimportant.
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Old 2009-06-11, 02:44   Link #44
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Im looking forward for Usopp's ministory the most.Dials were amazing for him but its time for him to hold himself off against some stronger guys.Im sure that weirdo in his island will teach him something great.Usopp was kinda amazed at Heracles fast moves at that time so he may gain some high speed upgrades.So that he may stay against mr "Supersonic" Van Auge.
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Old 2009-06-11, 04:16   Link #45
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I wonder if Luffy were to switch into Gear 2, what will become of the wax?
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Old 2009-06-11, 06:18   Link #46
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You know it would be kinda stupid if all of the Strawhats got dragged in the war...
I mean think about it...
Kuma sent their asses flying all over the place...
But all of them arrive at Mariejois at the same time...
If some of them get there then fine...
But all of them???
If they do all arrive there, it would be a good opportunity for them to see what the new world is like...
I think Kuma is part of Dragon's Army for some reason...
Like he knew about Luffy being Dragon's son, so i know he knows about Ace...
And sends Robin right to a place where Dragon's Army attacks not long after she arrives..
I mean c'mon
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Old 2009-06-11, 07:09   Link #47
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Originally Posted by Red-Haired_Shanks View Post
You know it would be kinda stupid if all of the Strawhats got dragged in the war...
I mean think about it...
Kuma sent their asses flying all over the place...
But all of them arrive at Mariejois at the same time...
If some of them get there then fine...
But all of them???
If they do all arrive there, it would be a good opportunity for them to see what the new world is like...
I think Kuma is part of Dragon's Army for some reason...
Like he knew about Luffy being Dragon's son, so i know he knows about Ace...
And sends Robin right to a place where Dragon's Army attacks not long after she arrives..
I mean c'mon
i agree with you,defintly seems like kuma is a double agent of some kind,he knows all the top players in OP and seems like he knows everything that goes around...
he also talked with raligh if im not mistaken before he vanised all of the straw hat crew.

in that note,if you go on a trip,where would you like to go?
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Old 2009-06-11, 07:18   Link #48
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Full RAW is out...

Wow... seeing Jinbei's special water attacks was really interesting.
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Old 2009-06-11, 07:29   Link #49
holypanl
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Originally Posted by syler321 View Post
BB Df ability is one of a kind,Df users logia or not BB can still control there power,haki users on the other hand can probably beat BB since he cant control there haki,is he?

haki as the ambition so dont think he does...


and theres also diffrent types of haki,like mihawk haki is very diffrent from rayligh haki...
I'm honestly not going to correct another Haki misinterpretation again. This is pretty much going to be the last time. After that, I leave it to C.A., and see if he wants to go on, but honestly, I don't think people are getting it.

Haki is one thing, and one thing only. Determination, and willpower. It may be manifested in different ways, and used in different forms, but there are no different 'types' of Haki, except if you include Sakki, which is significantly different in source, and utilization generally. It comes from one's Will, and Determination, but rather than a general will to do something, or effect change, it stems from a direct desire to cause harm, or to kill.

What you see during the Kuja arc concerning the Haoushoku Haki is a different level of Haki, but not a different type of it. Haki is Haki.

And Mihawk's Haki is just the same thing as anyone else's. It's not some kind of different Haki. And not only that, but we still have no real confirmation of Mihawk being able to control his Haki. No doubt it is strong enough to be able to be wielded, since he seemed to be a very spirited person, but he could probably have fought Shanks using a subset of sword-skill specific uses of his Haki, and not a well-rounded proficient use of it as a whole.

Please note carefull the marked manner in which I refer to a person's Haki as 'their Haki', rather than 'Haki'. Because Haki is innately dormant in everyone, and anyone can use it if it's strong enough, and they are strong-willed enough.

What I'm trying to say is that Haki is not magical, and there's no magical myriad of different H@x0r pwN Haki 'powerups' that will automatically 'make' someone strong.

It's more about how someone uses, and harnesses his willpower, and executes his tactics. Does this person confidently move on, or does he falter? Does he hesitate?

And not only that, but just because (just giving an example here...) Shanks can exert his Haki powerfully on his surroundings doesn't mean that he can automatically beat Blackbeard.

Again. Haki isn't some automatic Barrier against those who can't wield theirs. In fact, the manga states clearly that even before Blackbeard got his DF power, he had fought Shanks, and lived, and also scarred him. And Shanks said that "It's not like I was being careless."

Don't over-mystify Haki.
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Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
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Then they came for me!
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Old 2009-06-11, 07:40   Link #50
Red-Haired_Shanks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holypanl View Post
I'm honestly not going to correct another Haki misinterpretation again. This is pretty much going to be the last time. After that, I leave it to C.A., and see if he wants to go on, but honestly, I don't think people are getting it.

Haki is one thing, and one thing only. Determination, and willpower. It may be manifested in different ways, and used in different forms, but there are no different 'types' of Haki, except if you include Sakki, which is significantly different in source, and utilization generally. It comes from one's Will, and Determination, but rather than a general will to do something, or effect change, it stems from a direct desire to cause harm, or to kill.

Don't over-mystify Haki.
I Completely Agree. I wasnt really buying into all that stuff people was saying about Haki, making it more than what it is. That's why I Like It So Much, the greatest defense against somebody who has crazy ass DF powers, Determination and Willpower (HAKI)... How simple and original is that?
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Old 2009-06-11, 09:35   Link #51
paradox13
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Quote:
What I'm trying to say is that Haki is not magical, and there's no magical myriad of different H@x0r pwN Haki 'powerups' that will automatically 'make' someone strong.

It's more about how someone uses, and harnesses his willpower, and executes his tactics. Does this person confidently move on, or does he falter? Does he hesitate?
Then let me ask you, how does one imbue his willpower onto one's weapons?

How does one predict attacks beforehand using his willpower alone?

If this is not magic, then let me ask you, what is it?

And for the record, I'm not trying to refute CA's theories. What I'm just trying to say is that CA's theories are just that - unproven theories, pure speculation. It is reasonable speculation neverthless, and it could be completely correct, but it could also at the same time be completely wrong. I wish people would stop treating it like fact and treat it for what it is - speculation.
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Old 2009-06-11, 09:50   Link #52
holypanl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Then let me ask you, how does one imbue his willpower onto one's weapons?

How does one predict attacks beforehand using his willpower alone?

If this is not magic, then let me ask you, what is it?

And for the record, I'm not trying to refute CA's theories. What I'm just trying to say is that CA's theories are just that - unproven theories, pure speculation. It is reasonable speculation neverthless, and it could be completely correct, but it could also at the same time be completely wrong. I wish people would stop treating it like fact and treat it for what it is - speculation.
His speculation has been consistently in line with canon. And even if he's proved wrong, he made an excellent attempt, and his theories were on the dot for having been precipitated from the evidence he had on hand. At the moment, there is no better plausible, manga supported explanation out. Not only that, but he is also from an asian culture, so he has a first hand knowledge of those concepts.

I cannot give an explanation for the precognition, but I believe it could be possible, if one's Haki could be strong anough, to be manifested upon the physical, that it wouldn't be that hard to channel it into what you intend to achieve.

i.e.: If I want to pierce Mr. Xyz with an arrow, and make sure he dies, I could put my will into it, and send it forth, with all the brunt of my determination. That could give it just that extra edge needed.

Can you find a better, canon supported explanation?
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First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Old 2009-06-11, 10:12   Link #53
paradox13
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Quote:
I cannot give an explanation for the precognition, but I believe it could be possible, if one's Haki could be strong anough, to be manifested upon the physical, that it wouldn't be that hard to channel it into what you intend to achieve.

i.e.: If I want to pierce Mr. Xyz with an arrow, and make sure he dies, I could put my will into it, and send it forth, with all the brunt of my determination. That could give it just that extra edge needed.
How the fuck does one channel 'ambition' into a physical state? Seriously wtf?
lol...

And if thats true, then whats the difference between that and magic?

Quote:
in line with canon
Hmm I don't think so. You can see our debate in the haki thread, cos frankly I can't be bothered to type it all out again.

Its a reasonable theory and has its merits but also its flaws. I just don't believe you should keep on stating it like it was fact.

Another theory would be that its just what it is and it does what it does with no logical explanation. Like reitsu in Bleach and Chakra in Naruto. Does everything need an explanation?
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Old 2009-06-11, 10:43   Link #54
holypanl
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
How the fuck does one channel 'ambition' into a physical state? Seriously wtf?
lol...

And if thats true, then whats the difference between that and magic?



Hmm I don't think so. You can see our debate in the haki thread, cos frankly I can't be bothered to type it all out again.

Its a reasonable theory and has its merits but also its flaws. I just don't believe you should keep on stating it like it was fact.

Another theory would be that its just what it is and it does what it does with no logical explanation. Like reitsu in Bleach and Chakra in Naruto. Does everything need an explanation?
The internet is a funny place, you know? I mean...I wish you were standing in front of me right now. I just wish...

I'm not interested in getting banned again, so I'll just quote your message, and leave it there as evidence, expecting something to be done about it by the Moderators..

Quote:
How the fuck does one channel 'ambition' into a physical state? Seriously wtf?
I never said that they channel the ambition into a physical state. Your English is lacking. I said: (and I quote) "...if one's Haki could be strong anough, to be manifested upon the physical..."

That doesn't translate as the Haki becoming physical. The Haki remains in its original state, and affects the physical. Read with understanding.

I also stated that the Haki, being channeled into what you want to do, can give it an edge. I also admitted that my explanation may not fully cover the subject. I'm not arrogant. I confess that, with limited evidence, I may not be doing the topic perfect justice.

Quote:
And if thats true, then whats the difference between that and magic?
It can be dissected down to its roots, and fully explained. That's what the difference between mystical magic, and our explanation of Haki is.

Quote:
Hmm I don't think so. You can see our debate in the haki thread, cos frankly I can't be bothered to type it all out again.
Don't deceive yourself. If I remember correctly, the members who stood out during the Haki debate were C.A., marvelB, Blackbeard D. Kuma, BlackNhite, and james0246.

You were nowhere to be seen. I didn't even know you existed on this forum until today. Your arrogance is showing.

EDIT: LOL!! I just realized: you weren't even there while we were debating! How sad. You quoted, and acted all knowledgeable about events in threads past, when you only joined the forum last month. Look at that. Empty vessels...

And son, don't you EVER cuss at me again. I just slapped somebody two weeks ago in Uni for talking smack in my face. A whole bunch of little decrepit, intellectually stunted, insecure fools like you exist EVERYWHERE on the internet. You think you can hide your nerdy little faker wannabe excuse for a man behind that screen? You're pathetic.
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Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany:

First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Last edited by holypanl; 2009-06-11 at 16:21.
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Old 2009-06-11, 10:46   Link #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
How the fuck does one channel 'ambition' into a physical state? Seriously wtf?
lol...

And if thats true, then whats the difference between that and magic?



Hmm I don't think so. You can see our debate in the haki thread, cos frankly I can't be bothered to type it all out again.

Its a reasonable theory and has its merits but also its flaws. I just don't believe you should keep on stating it like it was fact.

Another theory would be that its just what it is and it does what it does with no logical explanation. Like reitsu in Bleach and Chakra in Naruto. Does everything need an explanation?
One Piece is basicly Fairy Land do you actually see people turn into ice? Fly like the speed of light? I think Haki is only fair letting the weaker non-DF fighters having a chance of beating Logia or whatever else powerful fruit
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Old 2009-06-11, 10:52   Link #56
paradox13
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Quote:
One Piece is basicly Fairy Land do you actually see people turn into ice? Fly like the speed of light? I think Haki is only fair letting the weaker non-DF fighters having a chance of beating Logia or whatever else powerful fruit
Thats my point.

Quote:
I'm not arrogant.
Dunno about that.

You sure are a hypocrite though.

Quote:
And son, don't you EVER cuss me again. I just slapped somebody two weeks ago in Uni for taking smack in my face. A whole bunch of little decrepit, intellectually stunted, insecure fools like you exist EVERYWHERE on the internet. You think you can hide your nerdy little faker wannabe excuse for a man behind that screen? You're pathetic.
;p

You don't know me, and yet you judge me. Don't know the reason for all the hostility, but getting worked up for something online is even more pathetic.
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Last edited by paradox13; 2009-06-11 at 11:07.
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Old 2009-06-11, 11:16   Link #57
holypanl
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Originally Posted by paradox13 View Post
Thats my point.



Dunno about that.

You sure are a hypocrite though.



;p

You don't know me, and yet you judge me. Don't know the reason for all the hostility, but getting worked up for something online is even more pathetic.
Right. And from here on, I guess that seeing as you no longer seem to have any arguments that have to do with the chapter, or even One Piece as a whole, that my points were stronger, and in the end, C.A.'s interpretation should stand, at least until we have substantial evidence from canon to say otherwise.

End of debate. I'm not interested in discussing your bright and sun-shiny personality.
-------------

Anyway, I've started reading over One Piece, and I'm glad to say that the magic is coming back to life in the storyline now.

I'm currently at the point where Luffy, Zoro and Nami meet Gaimon, the guy who' stuck in the treasure chest. I think that within another week, I should be back in total, and unfading love with my One Piece.

I'm glad that Mr. 3 has finally stepped up to his potential grade. I was wondering when he'd realize that he could have done a lot more during the time that he was on screen.

I mean...it became immediately obvious that he could help in Luffy's fight against Magellan. I trust Oda, and I know that Luffy won't be in the candle armour too long.

Magellan is also really strong, and he actually thinks, and is dedicated to his job. I don't expect him to joke around. The armour may frustrate him for a while, but I know he's not going down easy. At all.

He's definitely in my top five OP character list right now. Right up there, next to Crocodile and Lucci.
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Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany:

First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.

Last edited by holypanl; 2009-06-11 at 11:30.
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Old 2009-06-11, 11:22   Link #58
nicepace
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damn... guys!? can u have a better conversation...
why it always turn out to be a "HAKI" threat?!
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Old 2009-06-11, 11:24   Link #59
holypanl
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Aiyayai...I'm sorry. I was part of the problem. My apologies. If it means anything, I'll refrain from doing it again.
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Rev. Niemöller, on Nazi Germany:

First they went for communists: and I didn't speak out, not being a communist;
Then they came for trade unionists, and I said naught because I wasn't a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews: and I didn't speak out because I wasn't a Jew;

Then they came for me!
...and there was no one left to speak out for me.
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Old 2009-06-11, 11:30   Link #60
ChaosPaladin
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we finally see the real power of jinbei and i must say he is really godlike in water. it seems like he has overwhelming strength in water and luffy has gained an invaluable ally in jinbei.

3 and buggy are jokers as user but i really like the comment croc give abt devil fruit. it is really amazing how some devil fruit fare exceptionally well against some other and this show tt in one piece there is no definite strong/overpowered fruit. it is really an awesome system.
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