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Old 2010-06-28, 20:07   Link #961
maximilianjenus
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If it is anythign like higurashi, finding the culprit means that there will be kakera in which teh culprit can be stopped before the killings happen and in those kakera there will be happier endings than in the current ones.
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Old 2010-06-29, 02:13   Link #962
Pika_power
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Victory conditions are different to Higurashi. Not everyone needs to escape.

Did anyone else notice the easter egg in George's casual clothes? He's got the locket-thing that Tomitake had, and his shirt is similar and says "Tomitakeflash".
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Old 2010-06-29, 22:36   Link #963
LyricalAura
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Sayo/Miyo, George/Tomitake. Makes sense to me.
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Old 2010-07-02, 00:59   Link #964
Thunder Book
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For those still interested about my essay thing I was talking about earlier... I'm going to turn it into more of a list of comparisons. I just don't have the energy to make a good and professional looking essay as of now.
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Old 2010-07-02, 12:14   Link #965
TTR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pika_power View Post
Victory conditions are different to Higurashi. Not everyone needs to escape.

Did anyone else notice the easter egg in George's casual clothes? He's got the locket-thing that Tomitake had, and his shirt is similar and says "Tomitakeflash".
How did I not notice this?! It does say Tomitake FLASH. That's so hilarious hahaha
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Old 2010-07-11, 19:46   Link #966
Pika_power
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Is there a mistranslation of the first red?

when I speak the truth, I will use red.

If we use Hempel's Raven on this, we get the contrapositive.

Truth=red
Not truth=not red

Therefore everything Beato says in white is false.
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Old 2010-07-13, 08:29   Link #967
Digdri
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pika_power View Post
Is there a mistranslation of the first red?

when I speak the truth, I will use red.

If we use Hempel's Raven on this, we get the contrapositive.

Truth=red
Not truth=not red

Therefore everything Beato says in white is false.
Actually that's not the right way to build a contrapositive.

The right application to your statement should be something like: "I won't use the red, when I don't speak the truth"
Thats different because there are no equations in this statements in the logical / mathematical sense but implications in which we cannot change the sides of the statements without changing the meaning.
(In a short notation this would be like "A => B" equal to "not B => not A" but doesn't neither equal "not A => not B" nor "A = B" / "not A = not B")

But I guess the bigger problem has to do with the way language can get very vague in wording / meaning when dealing with conditional sentences which doesn't translate well into exact formulas if you are not careful and results in messed up application of rules on this formulas. Which doesn't necessarily makes this a mistranslation but still a misleading statement taken out of context. Language is just a much to ambiguous construct.

Context and common sense (and the follow up reds) still gives you a clear idea what was meant with this new rule but taking the this text way too literal would result in "Whenever I tell the truth, I'm bond to indicate it in red" (as in walls of red text for huge parts of the novels needed to fulfill this rule).
But that obviously was not the intention but more close to "When I tell the truth, I may use the red" (as she just adds a new rule to get another optional "power" for the witch side) or simply the "If text is red, it is always true" (as she stated herself: Everything I speak in red is the truth)

Obviously for the later statements (and their transformations) there are no contradictions to the story and the real contrapositive is even kind of used in EP4 in an even stronger version.

When this story talks about Hempel's Raven it barely scratches the surface of all that is the mathematical side of logic and its many rules (propositional logic and everything extenting this system) but IMO its not meant to really teach you that "mathy" part but show what "philosophical" implications are possible through this and keeps it a bit vague at times. (And those half red/white statements don't help either ^^)
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Old 2010-07-14, 16:10   Link #968
rogerpepitone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pika_power View Post
Victory conditions are different to Higurashi. Not everyone needs to escape.

Did anyone else notice the easter egg in George's casual clothes? He's got the locket-thing that Tomitake had, and his shirt is similar and says "Tomitakeflash".
The locket-thing is a "dog tag". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dog_tag_%28identifier%29
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Old 2010-07-24, 17:44   Link #969
Witch of Uncertainty
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Hmmm, so playing through episode 4 again, I am reminded that
Spoiler for Episode 4:
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Old 2010-07-24, 18:16   Link #970
zRyuu
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This is what the anime shows us. The VN never tell us this directly, but it does make sense and you can probably get to this with the hints.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShikiGamiLD View Post
I already knew what was the thing Ange found inside Capitan Kawabata's house, but now I just confirmed it by looking again at the anime:
Spoiler for Solution:
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Old 2010-07-24, 20:27   Link #971
Pika_power
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I must object to that being used as proof. You see, Maria added the scarf in later. The toy she was given did not have the red scarf. Therefore there should not be red in the bag. (of course, the other colours also apply, and Sakutarou being there fits)

Ah well. Perhaps Rosa decided to add in the scarf. Or perhaps it's just the anime screwing up again.
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Old 2010-07-24, 20:34   Link #972
DanielMors
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I think what is marked as the scarf is the orange "hair" of another Sakutarou that's in the bag. In fact, I see three Sakutarous, the third is on top of the other two, looking upwards.
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Old 2010-07-27, 02:18   Link #973
Judoh
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Is Kyrie's name pronounced as Key-ree-ay? or Key-ray?
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Old 2010-07-27, 06:12   Link #974
Auria
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Judoh View Post
Is Kyrie's name pronounced as Key-ree-ay? or Key-ray?
First option, though I'd make the "ay" a "ye"
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Old 2010-07-27, 14:50   Link #975
TsundereCake
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I know a lot of people who say Kyrie as "K-eye-ree" (like Kairi from Kingdom Hearts )
I thought maybe the correct pronunciation was just the Japanese pronunciation or something... But Mr. Pronunciation guy who sounds like Mike Toole says it's "Key-ree-ye"
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Old 2010-08-03, 19:51   Link #976
darkxrose
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After watching all of the anime and 1.5 episodes of the VN, I am still confused

These are just random questions I had...
Spoiler for questions:
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Old 2010-08-03, 20:06   Link #977
Judoh
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Spoiler for answers:
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Old 2010-08-04, 12:08   Link #978
ErenselTheJester
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I just got my english patch of umineko today, but I can't run it on onscripter-en. Do I need to make any preparations before I can run it?
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Old 2010-08-05, 02:38   Link #979
Pika_power
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester View Post
I just got my english patch of umineko today, but I can't run it on onscripter-en. Do I need to make any preparations before I can run it?
Asking in the Translation thread would probably be a better bet.
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Old 2010-08-16, 18:23   Link #980
gummybear
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I just had a thought, what if instead of solving the murders, Battler solve where the hidden gold are at instead? Doesn't that also end up winning the game anyway?
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