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Old 2009-07-06, 00:55   Link #281
snowdevil_crow
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fffffffff

SURELY YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH BEASTIALITY. It must be the Mao/Shirley.
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Old 2009-07-06, 01:21   Link #282
Nobodyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow View Post
fffffffff

SURELY YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH BEASTIALITY. It must be the Mao/Shirley.
Okay, I'm not sure how serious you are, but to clarify, yes it was Mao/Shirley.
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:10   Link #283
incorrupts
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Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
My 2nd favorite pairing involving Lelouch is probably be Kalulu (I'm dead serious)
Weird, how you can ship a chara you loathe, with someone that is a crucial part of your original OTP. {yeah, i am deadly serious as well}
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:11   Link #284
Sol Falling
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Second favourite pairing, huh...? Hm, this is a tough one.

Obviously my first is Shirlulu. Unfortunately, that just about locks out the characters I really care about in Code Geass, the only exception coming to mind being Suzaku. Unfortunately, blade's recent suggestion of SuzaKallen sparked a bit of a reevaluation of SuzaEuphie within me so that I am pretty much completely lost right now. Lemme just talk about SuzaEuphie for a moment, though.

The thing is, the tragic thing is, SuzaEuphie never really got to 'consumnate'. I don't really mean in the kissing or sex sense; I mean, Suzaku and Euphie never really got to reach each other, touch each other's hearts, and leave something strong inside. They never became each other's true sources of strength. And with Euphie's death resolved for Suzaku through his self-punishment (and Lelouch's punishment) in Zero Requiem, I don't know that they ever will.

Let's just get immediately into what defined Euphemia as a character. What was her defining act, what motivated it, what did her character mean. And it's pretty clear that that is the SAZ, but that is only the outward manifestation of it. Let me ask you, what was the SAZ truly about? Who was it truly about? It's not the Japanese, it's Lelouch.

Remember Euphemia's declaration of her 'meaning' in Stage 20:

"Suzaku, I finally understand. It's not about ideal countries, justice, or other such complicated things. I just want to see smiles. The smile of the person I love deeply now, and the smile of the person I loved deeply in the past. Will you...help me?"

At one's first reading, this can seem like a pile of horribly naive and meaningless crap (it did to me). I mean, 'smiles'? Seriously? What, 'I just want everybody to be happy' is the sum total depth of her character? How sugar-coated is that? But lol, please wait. Euphemia's worth more than that as a character. Take what actually happened to the smiles of that person she loved deeply now and that person she loved deeply in the past, and you can really see the depth of her tragedy.

The SAZ was designed to stop Lelouch's revenge. It was not to help the Japanese people, to justify Suzaku's 'change from within' self-hatred, about any kind of politics or justice, as she called them, 'complications'. It was solely to provide a safe haven, a sanctuary of peace and gentleness, so that instead of pursuing his vengeful path of carnage and destruction, Lelouch could have a place of happiness (with Nunally), and smile. Suzaku, in as far as he was a symbol to the Japanese people who could make them embrace peace, stripping Lelouch's vengeance from him, was a tool. Although Euphemia did in fact also wish to restore Suzaku's smile, in the sense of erasing his self-hatred and desire for punishment so that he could truly be at peace with himself and be happy, the SAZ did nothing to directly accomplish that. In fact, for such a desire and message from Euphemia to truly get through to him, the thing that Suzaku required most of all was probably time.

The fact is, Euphemia died before Suzaku got that time. She died at the hands of Lelouch, trying to help Lelouch, for the sake of Lelouch's revenge. Truly, moreso than Suzaku, it was Lelouch who defined Euphemia's character. And that was why, ultimately, she didn't leave Suzaku anything. Although Euphie's honest desire was for Suzaku to smile, her message never reached his heart. Instead, Suzaku fell partway into the same pit of revenge which consumed Lelouch, fell further into the depths of his self-hatred as a result of that, and finally, instead of learning to smile like Euphie wished him to--instead of helping her bring Lelouch to smile like Euphie asked him to--resolved those feelings in the exact opposite way Euphie would have wanted by killing Lelouch and sentencing himself to a lifetime of punishment.

So do you see? SuzaEuphie, by the end of the series, is somewhat fundamentally broken. This isn't to say that they were impossible (indeed, if the SAZ had succeeded, there is no doubt that their love would have been quite powerful) but that what ultimately happened in the story is that Euphie was defined by Lelouch and betrayed by Suzaku. As such, given the state of the canonical Suzaku, I can't really ship him with Euphemia (technically Euphie's memory, as it were). Thus the possibility that blade brought up about SuzaKallen, although only moderately supported by canon (in the sense that I'm not sure Kallen needs any more development, although if she did she certainly has enough of a foundation with Suzaku to provide it), is quite appealing to me in light of Suzaku's incomplete story. Ultimately though, I'm not quite sure I am dedicated to it enough to consider it my second favourite pairing.

Let's see...in terms of pairings that I inequivacably like and have no qualms about...well, okay, maybe sometime through the middle of R2 I would have enjoyed Suzaku x Anya. Anya wasn't really given enough of a personality for a solid basis for this, but that one scene where she asked Suzaku if he was a masochist really screamed out at me. If Anya's character weren't hijacked by the whole being Marianne's vessel thing, I think she and Suzaku could have worked out in a totally different way then it would have with Euphie.
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Last edited by Sol Falling; 2009-07-06 at 03:49.
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:41   Link #285
Nobodyman9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by incorrupts View Post
Weird, how you can ship a chara you loathe, with someone that is a crucial part of your original OTP. {yeah, i am deadly serious as well}
I don't loathe Kallen. I do think she gets an inordinate amount of attention and praise on this forum (can't do anything about that), but I don't loathe her. And as I said, Kalulu is only my 2nd favorite Lelouch pairing after Shirlulu, and it's not exactly by a small margin.
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:46   Link #286
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nobodyman9 View Post
I don't loathe Kallen. I do think she gets an inordinate amount of attention and praise on this forum (can't do anything about that), but I don't loathe her. And as I said, Kalulu is only my 2nd favorite Lelouch pairing after Shirlulu, and it's not exactly by a small margin.
http://forums.animesuki.com/converse...81882&u2=81487

That is kind of weird, seeing as you said, you kinda loathe the pairing but anyway, change of heart seems to be the trend around this forum.

Can we go with pairings we dislike then? Ougi/Viletta for me, thank you. For reasons i have stated million times, ironic how i used to ship them in S1, ah.
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:52   Link #287
monir
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Okay... let's drop that subject. We can live with if characters in a fictional show are hated rather than directing hate/unpleasantries to the fans who come to adore those characters. Incorrupts and Nobodyman can get a room as well to continue flirting with each other.

For the rest of us, let's talk romance.
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:54   Link #288
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
Okay... let's drop that subject. We can live with if characters in a fictional show are hated rather than directing hate/unpleasantries to the fans who come to adore those characters. Incorrupts and Nobodyman can get a room as well to continue flirting with each other.

For the rest of us, let's talk romance.

I was just trying to show, how people tend to contradict themselves, that was. 8D

Anyway yeah, ok, that might be considered a bit afar, so i am dropping it.
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:54   Link #289
bladeofdarkness
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second favorite ship
well...
i guess its the suzakallen thing i have been spamming about recently and Sol just mentioned again (awesome post BTW Sol)
i just think that they have a lot to in common which was just obscured by the fact that they were enemies during the show
and even more likely when you consider that they were enemies only in an idealogical sort of way
they both wanted a better life for japan and its people
they didnt even have different goals in the end, they only disagreed about how to achieve them

P.S
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow View Post
fffffffff

SURELY YOU HAVE NO PROBLEMS WITH BEASTIALITY. It must be the Mao/Shirley.
i just read this on the top of the page
thats just random
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:56   Link #290
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
second favorite ship
well...
i guess its the suzakallen thing i have been spamming about recently and Sol just mentioned again (awesome post BTW Sol)
i just think that they have a lot to in common which was just obscured by the fact that they were enemies during the show
and even more likely when you consider that they were enemies only in an idealogical sort of way
they both wanted a better life for japan and its people
they didnt even have different goals in the end, they only disagreed about how to achieve them
Are you sure it is your second blade, you sound first-OTP-excited about it, haha. 8DD
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Old 2009-07-06, 03:56   Link #291
bladeofdarkness
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surely you dont doubt my kalulunss
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Old 2009-07-06, 04:00   Link #292
incorrupts
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Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
surely you dont doubt my kalulunss
Honestly lately, i do. 8D
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Old 2009-07-06, 04:04   Link #293
bladeofdarkness
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dont underestimate me
who the hell do you think i am
i'm bladeofdarkness
MASTER of the tl;dr posts, and repeater of the same points over and over again
as if i'd turn my back on my OTP
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Old 2009-07-06, 04:12   Link #294
incorrupts
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
dont underestimate me
who the hell do you think i am
i'm bladeofdarkness
MASTER of the tl;dr posts, and repeater of the same points over and over again
as if i'd turn my back on my OTP
See? That is the spirit, you are the propulsion-engineer of Kalulu-Dai or what? And a windy speaker, but a good one, haha. 8D

Well, my second OTP in Geass...hum, Lelouch and his hair. Honest, it is meant to be. Or, Suzaku/Euphie, works either way. 8D
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Old 2009-07-06, 11:32   Link #295
Kid Ying
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I don't have a second favorite pair... Well, i don't know if it counts, but for me, Suzaku should have all the girls in the series...
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Old 2009-07-06, 14:27   Link #296
Nobodyman9
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@monir: Nicely said monir. Sorry about that.

@Kid: So I guess your 2nd favorite pairing would be Suzaku/Harem?

@sky: Lelouch/Hair? LOL, that's a new one XD I'd say it's perfectly legitimate though.

Oh, and my least favorite pairing. I guess it would be some kind of stupid crack pairing or probably a slash pairing like SuzaLulu (bleh)
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Old 2009-07-06, 15:51   Link #297
snowdevil_crow
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@incorrupts --- people can change their minds

@nobodyman --- nooo!! SuzaLulu! ;_; Also, I dunno, I was kind of really tired when I posted that Mao/Shirley vs beastiality thing XD I don't even remember what kind of sarcasm/nonsarcasm I was trying to use. XDXD
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Old 2009-07-06, 15:55   Link #298
Nobodyman9
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Originally Posted by snowdevil_crow View Post
@nobodyman --- nooo!! SuzaLulu! ;_; Also, I dunno, I was kind of really tired when I posted that Mao/Shirley vs beastiality thing XD I don't even remember what kind of sarcasm/nonsarcasm I was trying to use. XDXD
Well, keep in mind I'm not a girl like you so I pretty much have to dislike all yaoi pairings by default

And LOL, don't worry about the Mao/Shirley thing. It's all just lulz anyway.
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Old 2009-07-06, 16:02   Link #299
snowdevil_crow
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No you don't! You can break through the 'default'! Go beyond the impossible --- wait.

>_>

<_<

meow.
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Old 2009-07-06, 16:23   Link #300
azul120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
Second favourite pairing, huh...? Hm, this is a tough one.

Obviously my first is Shirlulu. Unfortunately, that just about locks out the characters I really care about in Code Geass, the only exception coming to mind being Suzaku. Unfortunately, blade's recent suggestion of SuzaKallen sparked a bit of a reevaluation of SuzaEuphie within me so that I am pretty much completely lost right now. Lemme just talk about SuzaEuphie for a moment, though.

The thing is, the tragic thing is, SuzaEuphie never really got to 'consumnate'. I don't really mean in the kissing or sex sense; I mean, Suzaku and Euphie never really got to reach each other, touch each other's hearts, and leave something strong inside. They never became each other's true sources of strength. And with Euphie's death resolved for Suzaku through his self-punishment (and Lelouch's punishment) in Zero Requiem, I don't know that they ever will.

Let's just get immediately into what defined Euphemia as a character. What was her defining act, what motivated it, what did her character mean. And it's pretty clear that that is the SAZ, but that is only the outward manifestation of it. Let me ask you, what was the SAZ truly about? Who was it truly about? It's not the Japanese, it's Lelouch.

Remember Euphemia's declaration of her 'meaning' in Stage 20:

"Suzaku, I finally understand. It's not about ideal countries, justice, or other such complicated things. I just want to see smiles. The smile of the person I love deeply now, and the smile of the person I loved deeply in the past. Will you...help me?"

At one's first reading, this can seem like a pile of horribly naive and meaningless crap (it did to me). I mean, 'smiles'? Seriously? What, 'I just want everybody to be happy' is the sum total depth of her character? How sugar-coated is that? But lol, please wait. Euphemia's worth more than that as a character. Take what actually happened to the smiles of that person she loved deeply now and that person she loved deeply in the past, and you can really see the depth of her tragedy.

The SAZ was designed to stop Lelouch's revenge. It was not to help the Japanese people, to justify Suzaku's 'change from within' self-hatred, about any kind of politics or justice, as she called them, 'complications'. It was solely to provide a safe haven, a sanctuary of peace and gentleness, so that instead of pursuing his vengeful path of carnage and destruction, Lelouch could have a place of happiness (with Nunally), and smile. Suzaku, in as far as he was a symbol to the Japanese people who could make them embrace peace, stripping Lelouch's vengeance from him, was a tool. Although Euphemia did in fact also wish to restore Suzaku's smile, in the sense of erasing his self-hatred and desire for punishment so that he could truly be at peace with himself and be happy, the SAZ did nothing to directly accomplish that. In fact, for such a desire and message from Euphemia to truly get through to him, the thing that Suzaku required most of all was probably time.

The fact is, Euphemia died before Suzaku got that time. She died at the hands of Lelouch, trying to help Lelouch, for the sake of Lelouch's revenge. Truly, moreso than Suzaku, it was Lelouch who defined Euphemia's character. And that was why, ultimately, she didn't leave Suzaku anything. Although Euphie's honest desire was for Suzaku to smile, her message never reached his heart. Instead, Suzaku fell partway into the same pit of revenge which consumed Lelouch, fell further into the depths of his self-hatred as a result of that, and finally, instead of learning to smile like Euphie wished him to--instead of helping her bring Lelouch to smile like Euphie asked him to--resolved those feelings in the exact opposite way Euphie would have wanted by killing Lelouch and sentencing himself to a lifetime of punishment.

So do you see? SuzaEuphie, by the end of the series, is somewhat fundamentally broken. This isn't to say that they were impossible (indeed, if the SAZ had succeeded, there is no doubt that their love would have been quite powerful) but that what ultimately happened in the story is that Euphie was defined by Lelouch and betrayed by Suzaku. As such, given the state of the canonical Suzaku, I can't really ship him with Euphemia (technically Euphie's memory, as it were). Thus the possibility that blade brought up about SuzaKallen, although only moderately supported by canon (in the sense that I'm not sure Kallen needs any more development, although if she did she certainly has enough of a foundation with Suzaku to provide it), is quite appealing to me in light of Suzaku's incomplete story. Ultimately though, I'm not quite sure I am dedicated to it enough to consider it my second favourite pairing.

Let's see...in terms of pairings that I inequivacably like and have no qualms about...well, okay, maybe sometime through the middle of R2 I would have enjoyed Suzaku x Anya. Anya wasn't really given enough of a personality for a solid basis for this, but that one scene where she asked Suzaku if he was a masochist really screamed out at me. If Anya's character weren't hijacked by the whole being Marianne's vessel thing, I think she and Suzaku could have worked out in a totally different way then it would have with Euphie.
Except that Zero Requiem for Suzaku had absolutely nothing to do with Lelouch having killed Euphie. The most Suzaku demanded out of Lelouch was an answer as to why he did it. As I've said multiple times before, Suzaku had more than enough time to kill Lelouch for the sake of retribution if he really wanted to, particularly during the year the latter had his memories erased by Charles. Infact, Suzaku initially objected to the idea of Lelouch having himself killed through Zero Requiem until Lelouch said he refused to have it any other way.
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