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Old 2009-06-22, 10:42   Link #161
SaintessHeart
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Oh right zhanquan seems that you got a point there......

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Oh, but the street youth should keep up their "Hunt the Basij" game.... that appears to be putting more terror into the Basij than the Basij can create in the populace.
The Basij have guns. The street youth don't. The universal doctrine is pretty much, "Never argue with anyone with a loaded gun in their hands", so unless the street youth have got serious guts or a death wish, it would result in a massacre.

The Basij won't hestitate to shoot, as proven from Neda.
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Old 2009-06-22, 10:48   Link #162
Vexx
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Keep up with the news ... the street youth ARE terrorizing the Basij at night. They know the alleys, the secret ways, whereas the Basij are rarely even from the area --- they peel the Basij off and it doesn't matter if you have a gun or not if you're blindsided.

And actually - at close range, a baseball bat with nails is much faster than a gun pointed the wrong way...
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Old 2009-06-22, 10:54   Link #163
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And actually - at close range, a baseball bat with nails can be much faster than a gun pointed the wrong way...
Though you may be right, that will just give enough excuse to them to go there during the day and shoot all they want. So the end score will become 1-1, with both sides losing a lot of blood. I don't know if either side would prefer to have that instead of not hurting another.

But, from the past experiences of my country, I can say this. People who wouldn't mind killing the opposing side would prefer nothing more than the opposing side to attack them. This will give them the best excuse to cause more damage. And the best way to get away with it.

Spoiler for off topic:
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Old 2009-06-22, 11:23   Link #164
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Obama being careful with his comments is the correct answer

because you see... any kind of support from a foreign country will be used as a rallying cry against the protesters

heck, they're already blaming England/US/Jews for masterminding all of this
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Old 2009-06-22, 11:39   Link #165
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
Obama being careful with his comments is the correct answer

because you see... any kind of support from a foreign country will be used as a rallying cry against the protesters
I am wondering but what kind of support are you talking about? Sending armies and crossing the boundaries? Attacking the military bases? Closing the borders?

Currently, there is nothing they can do other than talk. If you talk about democracy and the validity of the votes, do you really think he is going to gain the support of countries like Russia, China, neighbor countries, etc. That means, forgetting about UN and its security council. If using force would be a measure stick, then how will Obama look into other countries' citizens when they ask him what did you do in Iraq and what are you still doing there? If they ask about inhuman acts, how will he answer when they tell him, you cannot even talk openly about what US did to other countries' citizens, in the name of protecting your own country, in those next-generation collection camps?

It is not like US has a lot to say in that matter. Maybe the US of ten years ago would have found it easier to act, but the current one, even using the name Obama may not have enough credibility to do so.

Quote:
heck, they're already blaming England/US/Jews for masterminding all of this
If they consider internet as one of the weapons to organize the people opposing the government, then using hidden identities, those people can be anyone, including Iranian-originated agents working for US, or just a regular US agent, and such. And the information shared does not have to be the correct one either. Broadcasting fabricated information is a nice tactic that anyone can use. There are a lot of examples of that. Even though the Iranian government is not an innocent one, they are trying to use those existent info to their advantage. For that, I cannot blame them. The other side needs to adapt themselves based on these possibilities, if they want to win this struggle.
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Old 2009-06-22, 11:53   Link #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amex_Yohko View Post
I'm not sure about this but my country's newspapers and telecasts said that Jews caused this riot. Please don't call me racist because I'm not on their side either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Key Board View Post
heck, they're already blaming England/US/Jews for masterminding all of this
yeah
but they blame anything on them anyway
if the rain in spain falls anywhere OTHER then the plain, its becouse the jews did it
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:01   Link #167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bladeofdarkness View Post
yeah
but they blame anything on them anyway
if the rain in spain falls anywhere OTHER then the plain, its becouse the jews did it
I think both sides know regarding each other's actions and hidden agendas more than we do. It is not like Israel is not aware of what Iran is doing in Middle East. The same is also true for Iran regarding Israel.

And at this point for Iran, it does not matter whether the threat comes from US or Israel. Both countries share similar ideals regarding Iran, and both countries are expected to work towards the same destination together. I think, anything that is related to US taking place in Middle East includes something from Israel, directly or indirectly. I doubt you will find a lot of conflicting ideas there. Just because Israel is not directly involving in some matters does not mean they are not in it.

I am also eager to learn about such activities too. Because, I am sure those activities are not limited to a single country there. The question you should ask is if Iran falls to US's control, what is the next step?
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:15   Link #168
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
I think both sides know regarding each other's actions and hidden agendas more than we do. It is not like Israel is not aware of what Iran is doing in Middle East. The same is also true for Iran regarding Israel.

And at this point for Iran, it does not matter whether the threat comes from US or Israel. Both countries share similar ideals regarding Iran, and both countries are expected to work towards the same destination together. I think, anything that is related to US taking place in Middle East includes something from Israel, directly or indirectly. I doubt you will find a lot of conflicting ideas there. Just because Israel is not directly involving in some matters does not mean they are not in it.

I am also eager to learn about such activities too. Because, I am sure those activities are not limited to a single country there. The question you should ask is if Iran falls to US's control, what is the next step?
cut off funding and support for 4 main factors
1)hizballa
2)hamas
3)the terrorist cells in iraq (dont know if they have one specific name)
4)syria
all these forces get funding and support from the corrent iranian goverment

if iran falls then the terrorist groups lose much of their power
and syria loses its only real ally and can be pressured into falling in line with US policy

none of which BTW seem like a BAD idea to me
it would go a long way towards actually achiving peace in the middle east
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:21   Link #169
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I don't know what you consider as peace. Peace as in US or Israel doing what they wish, and the others crumbling under them if they don't approve of those countries' ideals? You cannot achieve a long-lasting peace by putting countries under your control. I have always thought that if Israel, which is considered as a democratic country directly part of the conflict surrounding almost all countries in the region including Iran, would have acted first with pure intentions of peace, the results would have triggered a better transition for the whole region, again including Iran.

But, that is not happening, for a simple reason, and that lies within the peace definition, I am guessing, you are referring to. That may include buying some lands in northern Iraq, taking the currently unknown mine-cleaning deal across the southern borders of Turkey, which may give the control of the lands for nearly half century to the companies doing the deals (Israel's name is the first one being mentioned there). I think, there are a lot of plans going on in the region, that may even cause much bigger troubles for everyone.
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:22   Link #170
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Here's my two cents: the revolution that threw out the Shah and installed the Ayatollah and his supporters to power may as well be the same one that could possibly throw them down.

Gonna color my Twitter icon green tomorrow.
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:23   Link #171
Miko Miko
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Can someone simply explain to me whats happening, I don't really understand whats happening in Iran?
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:26   Link #172
Fipskuul
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miko Miko View Post
Can someone simply explain to me whats happening, I don't really understand whats happening in Iran?
Check the wiki link. It should answer all your questions about the conflict.
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:33   Link #173
bladeofdarkness
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
I don't know what you consider as peace. Peace as in US or Israel doing what they wish, and the others crumbling under them if they don't approve of those countries' ideals? You cannot achieve a long-lasting peace by putting countries under your control. I have always thought that if Israel, which is considered as a democratic country directly part of the conflict surrounding almost all countries in the region including Iran, would have acted first with pure intentions of peace, the results would have triggered a better transition for the whole region, again including Iran.

But, that is not happening, for a simple reason, and that lies within the peace definition, I am guessing, you are referring to.
you kinda went to far with your interpretaion of my idea
there are two types of countries in the middle east in regards to the arab israeli conflict (which iran, despite not being arab, is a part of)
those who still believe that israel can be destroyed
and those who have already given up on that notion
the "yes we can" club is the main problem with any future peace deals
and the corrent goverment in iran is spearheading it

peace negotiating is about equality in demends
right now the US has the ability to pressure israel into making SOME changes that he wants
and no ability at all to pressure ANY of the other factors in the area
hamas hizballa and syria flip them the finger basiclly, and they do this becouse iran's got their backs
if iran DIDNT have their backs,they wouldnt be such a pain to deal with
THEN you can talk peace, becouse then you can force BOTH sides (arabs and israelis) to sit down, shut up, and try to get along

if all obama can do is pressure israel (his main ALLY in the region) into to doing things for him, then i'm not impressed
so he can MAYBE get them to freeze building in the settlemnts
so what ?
so could ANY US PRESIDENT EVER ELECTED
convicing your ALLIES to do stuff for you is nothing
convicing your ENEMIES is the key
and right now he cant, and more importently, doesnt seem to WANT to, do jack about that

Spoiler for off topic about the other two bolded lines:


edit:

‪http://www.tomgrossmedia.com/mideastdispatches/archives/001038.html

the above added link leads to tom gross's news site
it includes multiple video's about thing happening in iran
be warned, some of them are rather brutal
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Old 2009-06-22, 12:59   Link #174
Miko Miko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fipskuul View Post
Check the wiki link. It should answer all your questions about the conflict.
Thanks! ^_^
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Old 2009-06-22, 16:28   Link #175
Mushi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Okay, geniuses ... "young people" includes pretty much anyone under THIRTY years of age.
And something like 60% of the population in Iran is under the age of 30.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
to REALLY smack the government, it seems much more prudent to call a General Strike. Everyone just stay home - don't go to work. Employers who sympathize should just shut down.
Looks like things are pointing that way.

For the quick and short of it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by a snip of the declaration
To recognize labor-union and social rights in Iran, the international labor organizations have declared the Fifth of Tir (June 26) the international day of support for imprisoned Iranian workers as well as for the institution of unions in Iran. We want that this day be viewed as more than a day for the demands of labor unions to make it a day for human rights in Iran and to ask all our fellow workers to struggle for the trampled rights of the majority of the people of Iran.

With hope for the spread of justice and freedom,

Autobus Workers Union
Quoting the article: "And there is not a regime on earth that can survive a general strike aimed at its heart."


Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
Oh, but the street youth should keep up their "Hunt the Basij" game.... that appears to be putting more terror into the Basij than the Basij can create in the populace.
I don't know if that's such a good idea. The Basij have turned a sports arena in Tehran into a fortress, now. I saw one report saying that some of the Basij is composed of youths from rural areas that are being bussed into the cities... basically brain-washed teenagers who are Islamic fanatics. I don't know how much truth there is to that, but I wouldn't be surprised if that's the case.

The initial motivation of the demonstrators has been dampened, but now that blood has been shed (and they have a globally recognized martyr in Neda) something has been set in motion that I think will play out over the months to come.
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Old 2009-06-22, 20:24   Link #176
Shadow Kira01
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Although American president Obama had once made a speech that "the United States is willing to lend a hand if the Iranians are willing to un-clench their fist", the current Iranian tyrannical regime is definitely not showing any goodwill at all. First, they win an election unfairly with non-eligible votes. Then, they go off and started killing civilians calling it justice and that these peaceful protestors are peace disturbers.

The most disturbing thing is that they gunned down a young female bystander Neda with a sniper at the top of one of the buildings as part of their "peace maintaining actions". The outrage is that the girl had nothing to do with the protests. Perhaps, some of the local authorities who side with the protestors should set up some snipers on the ground level, just in case bullets come raining down from the sky where people don't expect. If they are going to snipe bystanders, then maybe the ones on the ground level should snipe them back. Its not like they are the only ones capable of sniping targets at a distant, tons of people in Iran are capable of doing the same thing, as well as any nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYr2_...eature=related

More importantly, Iranians in other nations are currently worried about their family and friends in the chaotic mess right now as that communications are all restricted to the point that even if you do get through to the other side, they do not dare to talk freely as that their tyrannical regime may be monitoring them and if they say anything more than necessary, their lives may be in the danger. In other words, the information flow can only be relied on the ones willing to risk their lives for others which is what this protest is all about in the first place. The tyrannical regime of Iran is currently spreading lies and fraduelent claims of the election and also unfair recount methods involving tons of un-eligble votes. Aside from all this, Iranians should have the freedom to protest against unjust and unfair elections but instead.. They are getting gunned down, this is definitely an unacceptable act. Iran must strongly be condemned!!!
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Old 2009-06-22, 21:33   Link #177
Mushi
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Here's a site that posts highlights from the #IranElection Twitter topic.

http://iran.robinsloan.com/


Foreign Ministry spokesman Hasan Qashqavi accused CNN of training hackers to take down Iranian government sites. Blaming the west for "meddling" in their affairs is expected, but news networks training hackers?

Any hacking taking place is purely on the part of independent actors.
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Old 2009-06-22, 23:06   Link #178
karasuma
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Warning : Extreme graphic image.

Well, the blood shed has started. Is this a curse to happen at the anniversary of Tiananmen Square? I wish the Iranian people good luck.

Spoiler:
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Old 2009-06-23, 00:32   Link #179
SaintessHeart
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vexx View Post
And actually - at close range, a baseball bat with nails is much faster than a gun pointed the wrong way...
Not quite, but I think you mean point blank range. Pistols are lethal in short range, I seen a 9mm Para go through a kevlar plate at 50m.

They are blaming ENGLAND? These people don't have any sense of gratitude, the SAS should have left their diplomats to die 29 years ago. CT operations aren't easy to run, and just because UK is an ally of US doesn't mean Lizzie is an American lapdog.

That blaming trick is getting old. Those geriatric self-righteous pigs should just try something new. Acting like the "impure" animals they condemn is totally genius in their own part.

Anyway, my local news ran a review on the issue, stating that Iranians should deciding their own future rather than some old religious leader or anyone else, I see if I can get a scan on that article.
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Old 2009-06-23, 00:42   Link #180
bayoab
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cors8 View Post
"Iran's Guardian Council has admitted that the number of votes collected in 50 cities surpass the number of those eligible to cast ballot in those areas. "

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...onid=351020101


I'm not shocked by this at all. I think it undermines the government's assertion that the elections were fair even more.
The hilarity from the Guardian Council continues:

Quote:
Abbas Ali Kadkhodaei, the council's Spokesman said late on Monday that most of the complaints reported irregularities before the election, and not during or after the vote. He added that the Guardian Council was not the relevant body to look into such complaints.

The Guardian Council is the body in charge of supervising the elections and has to approve the outcome before any result could be official.

"If a major breach occurs in an election, the Guardian Council may annul the votes that come out of a particular affected ballot box, polling station, district, or city like how it was done in the parliamentary elections," Kadkhodaei said.
So it is your job, except when you don't feel like it?

Quote:
Kadkhodaei also denied accusations that polling stations had closed before all voters could cast their ballots.

He said in some polling stations balloting had continued up to three-and-a-half-hours past the official 10 p.m. deadline.
This would be a variation on the horse paradox.

[Source]

This really is the worst fraud cover up ever.
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