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View Poll Results: When you think "critic", which definition first comes to mind?
a person who is professionally engaged in the analysis and interpretation of works of art 42 32.31%
anyone who expresses a reasoned judgment of something 58 44.62%
someone who frequently finds fault or makes harsh and unfair judgments 22 16.92%
other (please describe) 8 6.15%
Voters: 130. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 2009-06-21, 10:17   Link #41
C.A.
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I voted: 'someone who frequently finds fault or makes harsh and unfair judgments'.

Because this is how majority of so called 'anime critics' are nowadays. The critics nowadays are complainers and people who don't understand much. Because they don't understand what they're watching, they don't even know what they're talking about, and because of that, they are complaining of something that doesn't even exist, thus harsh and unfair.

"I don't understand why", "I don't get how", "I have no idea how this can happen".

Yes, obviously the 'critic' himself failed to understand certain points that the show itself has presented and others can understand, he calls it criticism.

Then there's this group who thinks what he's looking at is 'crap', because he doesn't appreciate the style, the art, the animation, a certain voice actor(s). He thinks the show is crap and criticises because it has something he himself doesn't like. A 'critic' who doesn't know how to appreciate the rest of what is good, or simply doesn't understand what is taste.

And for the critics who think they're good, simply because they know how to argue, because they know some debating terms and have a good command of the English language.

My advice to them is to learn and have a decent command of the Japanese language first before claiming that they are actually good 'Anime critics'. Alot of critics simply have no idea what they really are watching because they do not have a full idea of what is expressed in Japanese, fansubs do not compensate for the loss in translation.

Also if you're criticising something in a western perspective, your criticism is already flawed in the first place. In many instances, anime are created by Japanese for Japanese audiences, they are not designed to appeal to Western audience in a completely Western perspective. Understand some Japanese language and culture before you actually criticise some joke, some philosophy and stuff that your Western mind can't accept.
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Old 2009-06-21, 10:21   Link #42
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Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post
Is the information about how they came to their decision available? Plus, they're subject to the same flaws of judgment as others are. I'd even say their elitism could blind them.

I don't see how they are the final judgment on what is "great" or not. Unless they can provide information on how they came to that decision, their decision is just as valid as the rest of ours. Even if they do provide information, it's still debatable.
Isn't Godwin's Law the one about Nazis?
You're right. Majority opinion is not always the best choice. That being said, the opposite can apply as well.
I'll just add and quote something from a blog (hinano) that resonated with me quite well during the debacle of ANN review of Nanoha

Quote:

Critics don’t actually “hate everything” or “hate everything but high drama”. The reason that it may seem like critics hate everything is that a good critic who has been doing this criticism thing for a long time should have seen/read/whatever a ton of works. It’s this breadth and depth of knowledge that lets them know what’s “good” and “bad”.


While this prose talk about the reviews, it's not hard to see what it tells about critics:

Quote:

reviews should have an objective point of view, but there are different ways to go about this. If I write a review and very clearly state how it made me feel and why it made me feel this way, along with my personal knowledge or experience, this makes the review fairly objective rather than subjective. The reader can clearly see how the movie works on someone and weight how the different aspects of the writer’s self created this impression of the movie. Therefore, a review whch straight up says “I hate Nanoha because only disgusting otaku and pedophiles (but really, are the two any different? like this” is the much more objective one.
Quote:

I feel that most of the problems with “critics” are with critics that act in bad faith. “Objectivity” does not mean you can say whatever you want. You are supposed to write an objective review; the review does not make what you are saying automatically “objective”. That said, “objectivity” does not grant any kind of authority, although it would appear that way as “objectivity” means that you are simply uttering something that is a fact, rather than an opinion which needs to be proven. The failure here is that an “objective” review also needs proof, whether it’s textual or extratextual or intertextual.
[
Quote:
Originally Posted by OceanBlue View Post

Due to the nature of a lot of these shows, they are rated not based on how exemplary they are, but how well they achieve their aim. Actually, I have to agree with you that popularity doesn't equal greatness, because a lot of times that isn't why it's popular.

That also goes into how people criticize. I doubt a majority of critics criticize based on how great something will be down the road, but rather how well they achieved their aims [possibly compared to others in the genre/medium].
Actually the second paragraph of his article, but revelant to critic, the genre of a series and its aims:

Quote:

a good critic will review something based on an appropriate framework. Roger Ebert had a column a very years ago where he responded to an angry email from a reader because he listed Lars Von Trier’s Dogville as one of the worst movies of the year. (PS: I hate Lars Von Trier and Dogme 95) and Spider-Man 2 as one of the best. The reader said “How can you give it a 2 star review when you give Spider-Man 4 stars? Spider-Man is just a superhero movie!” Ebert’s response was that just because Dogville is a SRS BIZNESS SOCIAL COMMENTARY DRAMA doesn’t in any way make it intrinsically “better”. If the commentary is off, the characters are flat, the writing bad, and so on, that makes it a bad movie despite its pretensions. Meanwhile, Spider-Man is whimsical and exciting; in short exactly what a superhero movie should be.

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Old 2009-06-21, 11:10   Link #43
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
When you hear the word "critic", what comes to mind? As you participate on this forum discussing the shows you watch, do you consider yourself a "critic"?
Everyone is entitled to his opinion, which can be surprisingly insightful at times, but I think it's a tad conceited to think that simply having an opinion automatically makes you a critic. Meaning to say, I tend to regard a "critic" as someone who is trained, or who possesses sufficient insight and experience about the medium, to give professional reviews of any given form of entertainment.

That's not to say that their opinions are necessarily better than the rest, but rather that they draw upon a greater wealth of knowledge (one would hope so) when passing judgments. In other words, while any layperson is entitled to his opinion about the outcome of a court case, I'd sooner trust a judge's verdict than the diatribe from the man on the street (assuming that it was a fair trial).

So, it follows:

1) Do I consider myself an "anime critic"?

No. It's a hobby, not a job (thankfully!).

2) When considering which shows to watch, what factors into your decision? Do you tend to watch shows you think you'll like, or will you watch anything that seems popular or technically interesting?

It's a bit of everything. Obviously, a show needs to be technically interesting in some respect for it to be popular in the first place, be it in terms of character design, animation quality, voice acting, music direction or storytelling. And I do tend to prefer anime with high levels of production quality.

That said, I don't have the time to watch every single show, so I usually choose only those shows that get the attention of certain members in this forum — through experience, I find that their tastes in anime are a close match with mine. So, in this sense, it's fair to say that I tend to watch only shows that I think I'd like, although I do try to break out of the pattern every now and then, to watch anime from genres that I do not usually visit.

3) When considering which shows to discuss on the forum, what factors into your decision? Do you tend to discuss shows you like, or do you tend to discuss any show where you feel you have an interesting/differing argument/perspective?

I contribute only when I feel I have something worthwhile to add to the discussion, especially when I notice that everyone is arguing over each other's heads. As a trained debator, nothing irritates me more than to see no progress in an argument. Many people have a tendency to belabour the same point over and over again, instead of moving on once the point has been made.

And in those few occasions where I had been more talkative than I should have been, I'm ruefully reminded of Abraham Lincoln's advice: It's better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and erase all doubt.

4) How do you decide when to drop shows? What factors into the decision? Does forum popularity/participation factor into your decision-making?

As far as I can tell, it's very seldom a conscious decision. For me, the spark of interest can come and go very suddenly. Basically, when keeping up with a show starts to feel like a chore, I'd eventually drop the show, even if I had been raving fan at the beginning.

Forum popularity and participation are certainly not factors in the decision. Rather, it's usually a case of whether an anime continues to engage my heart and mind. It's also a case of whether anime continues to be relevant to whatever "meta-interests" I'm pursuing at the moment.

For example, my most recent interest in anime peaked around 2006 and 2007, at a time when I was exploring different philosophical approaches towards ethics and aesthetics. Through anime, I discovered a wellspring of particularly East Asian ideas that are not usually explored in Western texts and that, in turn, triggered a renewed love affair with the medium.

Since then, unfortunately, my interest in the medium has been waning. It's not the anime, but me — sad to say, but I believe I've started to move on to other areas of interest.

5) Which of these two problems seems more troublesome to you: that people feel unable to present contrary/opposing opinions and arguments, or that people feel unwelcome/uncomfortable posting in threads due to fear of having their personal preferences unfairly questioned?

Both. If you have something to say, however unpopular it may be, then go ahead and say it — but you better be prepared for the consequences.

I suppose the real question here is whether you are being a troll for doing so. While that depends, to a certain extent, on the eye of the beholder, I think it's fairly easy to tell when you're a troll or not. Simply ask yourself: Are you adding constructively to a discussion?

And by constructive opinion, I'm referring to whether you can bring up new evidence to support your points of view. This is where the difference between a professional critic and an amateur becomes very noticeable — the former knows the difference (most of the time) between fact and opinion.
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Old 2009-06-21, 11:25   Link #44
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But I find that "troll" is often used when people just don't agree with what you're saying. Taking an unpopular stance in certain threads on other forums can get you that label.

You can totally believe what you're saying and you'll still get that label.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippicus View Post
Ah, the dreaded "I'm entitled to my opinion" vs. "If you don't like it don't watch it" debate

I think as long as it's reasonable people should feel free to say whatever they like. It would be nice if people would notice when they themselves start treading into the extremes of the spectrum. That would probably nip most of this problem in the bud. Too bad it generally takes someone else to point it out for them, which tends to cause the conditions necessary for a flamewar.

I think one thing that ticks a lot of people off is repeating the same kinds of things over and over every time a new episode comes out in a series. Doing stuff like that just begs the opposite extreme to get involved in a less than constructive manner. It's generally more apparent when it's repeated bashing of a show rather than praising it, but both can be pretty disruptive to a thread.
Totally agree.
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Old 2009-06-21, 13:00   Link #45
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But I find that "troll" is often used when people just don't agree with what you're saying. Taking an unpopular stance in certain threads on other forums can get you that label.
I've spent some time thinking about this issue. To me, a troll is someone:
  • whose primary purpose seems only to stir up controversy
  • who doesn't listen to or respect the opinions of others
  • who dogmatically believes that everything they say is Truth just because they say so
  • who keeps on persisting in making the same arguments incessantly without learning anything from past conversations
But I say all that, and I still realize that it's subjective. I know that I personally have a "failing" in that I read posts by trying to figure out where the poster is coming from. But I don't always fully understand everyone's motivations, so sometimes I seem to guess incorrectly. For example, one of the things I really struggle with is people who persistently attack a show for "faults" that seem to actually just reflect personal preferences. I tend to perceive these people as just trolling, because I have a hard time understanding why people will follow shows if they seem to hate it so much, and what their motivation would be to post about it if not just to rile people up. All that is just one of the reasons why I find this thread interesting; I'm getting a little bit of a better glimpse into what people might be thinking when they post those comments that just seem like trolls in disguise.

But as a short answer to this problem is probably just a change of tone. If someone has a negative/contrary opinion and comes across as menacing or overly-forceful, they're going to create walls. If they were to back off the aggression, they'd be more likely to have their opinion considered and not be thought of as a troll. I think part of this may be a reflection of what some people are taught in school; where you're supposed to boldly state your thesis and "prove it" using logic, and actively avoid any hint of the "first person". But not everyone wants to engage in that sort of debate, and in the wrong context that sort of presumptive boldness can be taken the wrong way. The fact is that very few of us here can truly claim to be "experts", and someone just arguing as if they were one doesn't cause them to be taken more seriously. All it does tend to do is cause people to tense up and take sides, resulting in a less-welcoming community for all.

Anyway, I realize that I'm probably not really saying anything that hasn't already said, and I'm rambling a bit. But, as both a poster and a moderator, this question of "what counts as a troll" is always a tough one, since I personally have been known to be too presumptive about that in some cases.
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Old 2009-06-21, 14:20   Link #46
Daniel E.
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Originally Posted by orion View Post
But I find that "troll" is often used when people just don't agree with what you're saying. Taking an unpopular stance in certain threads on other forums can get you that label.
There was a thread in the Bleach section (one that got nuked during the hack attack of 2005) about a fellow that decided to drop the show. He simply said that he had gotten bored with the show and was no longer planning on following it.

He got attacked from every possible angle, got called a troll at least half a dozen times. People told him that he was insulting everyone in the Bleach section and that the only purpose of making the thread was to piss everyone off.

And while I agree about the thread in question to be pointless, I found the whole incident on the whole to be a perfect example of what you comment above. Truly, the thread was full of trolls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by relentlessflame
I've spent some time thinking about this issue. To me, a troll is someone:
To me, a troll can also be a person with no tolarance whatsoever in regards to opinions different than his/hers. A person that uses his/her own standars to critize others and a person that preaches the "Universal Truths of Anime".

"Universal truths" that just so happen to coincede with his/her personal viewing habits.

EDIT:

Hmmm, looking again at your post, it would seem rather similar to what I said above. Just worded a bit different. >_<
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Old 2009-06-21, 17:21   Link #47
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
Also if you're criticising something in a western perspective, your criticism is already flawed in the first place. In many instances, anime are created by Japanese for Japanese audiences, they are not designed to appeal to Western audience in a completely Western perspective. Understand some Japanese language and culture before you actually criticise some joke, some philosophy and stuff that your Western mind can't accept.
But -all- critique is inherently subjective, is it not? How original you think something is depends on what you've seen before it, whether you relate to a character depends on your personal experience, etc. You can -only- filter art through your own perspectives, so trying to change your perspective to fit what you're watching isn't necessarily getting you any closer to being "right," it's just bringing you closer to the target audience, or the -expected- reaction. Who's to say that that's any more correct?

Anyway, I think opinions are valid, and really, "unfair criticism," ought to be reserved for those who are being jerks about what they're saying. A rational, reasonable person saying what they think is not "wrong" for having their own criteria. If everyone experiencing a show got exactly what the creators intended, then I doubt anyone would dislike much of anything, because no one wants to produce something "bad." But how well a message or an idea is communicated to you is part of what makes something enjoyable or not, and while that can be as much on you as it is on the show, you have to base what you think on -something-.

To address the main topic: I think that "critic" means a person who does this sort of thing professionally, and frankly, I think they probably lead somewhat unfortunate lives, because I question if they're able to simply enjoy things. Sort of like how I feel that those who get too focused on "literature," seem to forget why people enjoy reading books in the first place.

I personally see myself as a critically-thinking anime fan, who is more than happy to nitpick anything, even when it's generally enjoyable. Oh, and the writer in me has a habit of wanting to rewrite things I wasn't fond of or thought could have been better executed, which apparently pisses people off to no end. Go figure. It doesn't help that most of the things I really absolutely love seem to have smallish, quiet fandoms (Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou-readers, give a hollah! *shot*), while I'm more ambivalent/negative towards things that people will defend to the death (Gundam 00, for instance).
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Old 2009-06-21, 19:02   Link #48
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Old 2009-06-21, 19:04   Link #49
C.A.
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Originally Posted by Duo Himura View Post
But -all- critique is inherently subjective, is it not? How original you think something is depends on what you've seen before it, whether you relate to a character depends on your personal experience, etc. You can -only- filter art through your own perspectives, so trying to change your perspective to fit what you're watching isn't necessarily getting you any closer to being "right," it's just bringing you closer to the target audience, or the -expected- reaction. Who's to say that that's any more correct?
I would agree with you if the topic of the thread is about general critics. But the topic is talking about 'anime critics'.

So, if one thinks that he's an anime critic, he should have a good understanding of anime to actually be a good critic, especially if he's a professional. And to have a decent level of understanding he should be good at Japanese and be able to view it in a Japanese perspective and not just a completely Western perspective.

I don't think you can call someone a good critic if he doesn't even understand what he's watching or listening.

Also the topic seems to be talking about forum critics, people who criticism shows as part of discussion, which I believe are not made up of professional critics. Many of these so called 'critics' don't make fair or constructive criticism, they're simply people who find faults and make harsh judgments based on their opinions.

There are many instances where these 'critics' actually have no idea what they're watching. They find fault in homages, parodies, in-jokes and stuff, they condemn a show because of a certain point which they dislike. They complain of plot holes, going out of character, bad pacing, deux ex machina, 'trainwrecks', but they don't even seem to know what these terms are.
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Old 2009-06-21, 20:23   Link #50
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@ C. A.: Fair enough, but since you defined "critic" as "someone who is overly harsh," I was assuming that we weren't talking about pros. I would agree that a professional should have thorough schooling in whatever it is they're critiquing, though I would point out that they're not necessarily any more reliable a gauge of whether or not you personally will like something, they just are less likely to be whiny about it. Most of the time.

Anyway, a lot of people who offer criticism of anime don't believe that they're "critics." They may give themselves more credit than they deserve as far as judging what's "good" and "bad" goes, but my point was that it's all so subjective I'm not sure you can really say that someone is overstepping themselves in voicing their opinions, unless they're really trying to portray them as fact. And again, if you're not going to judge based on your opinions, most people are left without much else to go by... there's the occasional case where you can tell something is good but it just doesn't appeal to you, but for most people that's not a common thing.

To be fair, "constructive criticism" of a show made by people living halfway around the world speaking a completely different language doesn't really serve to be all that constructive, but I do see your point. Though whenever I suggest a show could have done something differently, I seem to catch flak for it, but... *shrugs*

However, I can't speak to people who misuse terms like "trainwreck" or "deus ex machina" having not had the pleasure of dealing with them myself. Well, I've heard "trainwreck" tossed around for any series that people thought was devolving into something awful, but that's one of those heavily subjective things, so.
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Old 2009-06-21, 20:35   Link #51
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Originally Posted by C.A. View Post
I don't think you can call someone a good critic if he doesn't even understand what he's watching or listening.
Well, I don't know much about profesional critics, but........

1) This Show Sucks!

2) This Show is Awesome!


If one needs a certain level of understanding and knowledge to make his/her opinion worthy, I wanna know why these guidelines are only demanded from the first type of comment on this forum.

Do the people following (and liking) X-show truly understand it? Do they like the show for what it is or do they like it simply because a lot of people are talking about it? Why is it that we never blink an eye to people that has been using the second comment for years now?

Right now, many Umineko fans are claiming that the animated version of the game (soon to start) is going to be the greatest hit of the current season. Now, if someone (anyone) were to say that the show is crap, he/she will likely be bombed with bad rap for judging a show before it even starts.

From this one can easily see that blind positive comments are never questioned, all the while the negatives ones are not only questioned, but also challenged and looked down upon.

If people have something against harsh negative comments, they need to have something against blind positive ones too; Else, all explanations given fall apart, if only because the logic of it is not applied evenly to all comments in any given thread.
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Old 2009-06-21, 20:53   Link #52
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Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
Well, I don't know much about profesional critics, but........

1) This Show Sucks!

2) This Show is Awesome!


If one needs a certain level of understanding and knowledge to make his/her opinion worthy, I wanna know why these guidelines are only demanded from the first type of comment on this forum.

Do the people following (and liking) X-show truly understand it? Do they like the show for what it is or do they like it simply because a lot of people are talking about it? Why is it that we never blink an eye to people that has been using the second comment for years now?

Right now, many Umineko fans are claiming that the animated version of the game (soon to start) is going to be the greatest hit of the current season. Now, if someone (anyone) were to say that the show is crap, he/she will likely be bombed with bad rap for judging a show before it even starts.

From this one can easily see that blind positive comments are never questioned, all the while the negatives ones are not only questioned, but also challenged and looked down upon.

If people have something against harsh negative comments, they need to have something against blind positive ones too; Else, all explanations given fall apart, if only because the logic of it is not applied evenly to all comments in any given thread.
Well its more fun if everyone just gangs upon one person . But really when I see a very harsh negative comment I tend to criticize it more because it feels like he/she is just trying to start a argument and basically just trolling. While overly positive comment I tend to not to care as it just seems like highly enthusiastic newbie. Also those overly positive comment tend to be like this "Oh shit that was f-ing amazing, probably the best anime I ever seen!", can't really argue with that as it is pure opinion.
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Old 2009-06-21, 20:56   Link #53
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I'll probably just point out some of the holes, and leave the reader to chew over them.
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Old 2009-06-21, 20:58   Link #54
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Originally Posted by Terrestrial Dream View Post
Also those overly positive comment tend to be like this "Oh shit that was f-ing amazing, probably the best anime I ever seen!", can't really argue with that as it is pure opinion.
The negative one can be a pure opinion as well.

Now, I won't deny the existence of trolls out there, but for the most part, I feel that people overreact a little too much whenever a negative post shows up.

Again, saying: This Show Sucks! doesn't really insults or offends anybody in this forum.
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Old 2009-06-21, 21:00   Link #55
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Personally, I would read and evaluate for myself. If I have the same point in mind, I would probably rephrase it so that the comment has less sting, but is still on the right wavelength. If it's without merit, I just move on.
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Old 2009-06-21, 21:02   Link #56
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Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
If one needs a certain level of understanding and knowledge to make his/her opinion worthy, I wanna know why these guidelines are only demanded from the first type of comment on this forum.

[...]

From this one can easily see that blind positive comments are never questioned, all the while the negatives ones are not only questioned, but also challenged and looked down upon.

If people have something against harsh negative comments, they need to have something against blind positive ones too; Else, all explanations given fall apart, if only because the logic of it is not applied evenly to all comments in any given thread.
Well, negative comments are inherently more threatening, simply because they're negative. That's a natural human reaction that begins the moment a child first learns to say "no"; it's a sign of defiance. And because discussion threads will tend to attract people with an interest in the show, there are always going to be a lot more "positives" than "negatives", which causes the negatives to stand out. So you're not starting on a level playing field; by being negative, you're already going against the grain. You can't really expect most people to get "outraged" at unjustified positivity -- they might question it, but very few fellow fans would be offended by it. Everyone who enjoys the work already has their own reasons why they like it, so they don't need someone else's justification to fill the gap.

Whether you like it or not, when you enter a forum for a show, you're entering a domain of mostly fans. If you're not going to be a fan, you have to rise to a higher challenge. You only upset people when you imply they're wrong. That's the lot of one who insists on being different. That's life.
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Old 2009-06-21, 21:09   Link #57
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Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
The negative one can be a pure opinion as well.

Now, I won't deny the existence of trolls out there, but for the most part, I feel that people overreact a little too much whenever a negative post shows up.

Again, saying: This Show Sucks! doesn't really insults or offends anybody in this forum.
True and I do admit I overreact on a idea that I don't agree with. But imo negative comment like "The show sucks" need more statement behind it as the positive one I am able to understand as I like the show (hence I would post there in the first place) while the negative one I really don't.
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Old 2009-06-21, 21:16   Link #58
Daniel E.
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Originally Posted by relentlessflame View Post
Whether you like it or not, when you enter a forum for a show, you're entering a domain of mostly fans. If you're not going to be a fan, you have to rise to a higher challenge. You only upset people when you imply they're wrong. That's the lot of one who insists on being different. That's life.
Funny you bring this up, because I mostly see it being used by the fans themselves. "You didn't get it", "You should watch another genre instead", "Don't bother until you watch/read the Source material", "This is not Naruto", etc, etc.

In all this cases the blame is placed on the viewer and not on the show. The though of accepting the flaw in any given anime can be a bit hard to swallow, so they blame (and question) the intelligence of the one making the negative comments instead.

Implying that they are wrong can easily upset anyone........ on both sides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terrestiral Dream
True and I do admit I overreact on a idea that I don't agree with. But imo negative comment like "The show sucks" need more statement behind it as the positive one I am able to understand as I like the show (hence I would post there in the first place) while the negative one I really don't.
We can always ask them why they feel like saying that. We probably won't like the answer (or the lack there of), but at least is better than to suddenly jump at them and label them as trolls.

From there and onward is really up to everyone to decide what they want to think about the poster in question.
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Old 2009-06-21, 21:49   Link #59
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1. When you think of the word "critic" in this context, which of the definitions above tends to spring to mind?
I think its the one who can point out the good and the bad in something. Of course, it's going to be subjective at times, but with good reasons, their inputs can be insightful and good to read. (#2 I guess)

Quote:
2. Based on that, do you consider yourself an "Anime Critic"?
No. I consider myself as more of just an 'Anime Watcher' than a critic.

Quote:
3. When considering which shows to watch, what factors into your decision? Do you tend to watch shows you think you'll like, or will you watch anything that seems popular or technically interesting?
Most of the time, before deciding, I read some summaries first. If the intro/summary sounds interesting/or provided something interesting, I watch. The interesting topic varies: it might be the romance that is interesting; the protagonist's conflict; the symbolism; the intro itself; etc. Sometimes, I spoil myself of some themes/event, but if its interesting, I think I don't mind and still watch.

I sometimes got sucked into watching by popularity, but most of the times, its just based on my decision if I want to watch a show or not.

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4. When considering which shows to discuss on the forum, what factors into your decision? Do you tend to discuss shows you like, or do you tend to discuss any show where you feel you have an interesting/differing argument/perspective?
Well, sometimes I go into discussions if I like a show. Sometimes, I just read people's comments.

Sometimes, I read into anime threads, eventhough I don't watched the anime, just because the people post good discussions (about plot element, characters, politics etc.)

Quote:
5. How do you decide when to drop shows? What factors into the decision? Does forum popularity/participation factor into your decision-making?
Well, sometimes mood comes to play when I drop some shows. When I feel lazy going through until the end of the anime, I just don't watch anymore. I might reconsider rewatching, but the chances are going to be slim. Sometimes, spoilers can drag me back into watching again.

Sometimes, when I feel the anime has no more interesting things to offer, I drop it.

Sometimes, when I feel that the thing I find interesting in the story is not being handled well, I might consider dropping.

Another factor in dropping anime is when I feel that some conflicts that could have been solved right away in short episodes got dragged and replayed for long episodes (Pacing, I guess). Its a turn off most of the times.

I don't think that popularity or criticism affects my decisions of dropping an anime or not.

Quote:
5) Which of these two problems seems more troublesome to you: that people feel unable to present contrary/opposing opinions and arguments, or that people feel unwelcome/uncomfortable posting in threads due to fear of having their personal preferences unfairly questioned?
I think its the first one, though the last one is a bit troublesome in some extent.
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Old 2009-06-21, 22:43   Link #60
relentlessflame
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel E. View Post
Funny you bring this up, because I mostly see it being used by the fans themselves. "You didn't get it", "You should watch another genre instead", "Don't bother until you watch/read the Source material", "This is not Naruto", etc, etc.

In all this cases the blame is placed on the viewer and not on the show. The though of accepting the flaw in any given anime can be a bit hard to swallow, so they blame (and question) the intelligence of the one making the negative comments instead.

Implying that they are wrong can easily upset anyone........ on both sides.
It sounds like you're making an assumption that "they must be in denial" or something, but that isn't necessarily the case. Two reasonable people can come to different conclusions about the same thing and both be right, since most of the things people "argue" about are actually just personal preferences anyway. Even if their way of expressing themselves isn't as well-articulated, that doesn't mean they can't still be right in their way of thinking; opinions aren't facts. I think it's pretty natural to wonder what the difference is between you and the person holding an opposite opinion and, absent data to the contrary, it can be easy to assume that someone might be trolling.

I think the best way is always to change your approach. Rather than attacking the show, just present your opinions and the reason why you feel that way. It's less threatening that way. That is assuming that you're willing to accept that just because you believe something is a flaw doesn't actually make it so. You can't expect people who come from a different point of view to agree with you just because you make what seems like a logical argument. Likewise, you can't just wait to be respected before you start truly respecting the opinions of others (even the ones you think of as just being "fanboys"). And this goes with what I said earlier in the context of the statement you extracted; if you stir up a hornet's nest, always expect to be stung.

So sure, it's tough being told you're wrong, especially when you think it's unfair. But, most of the time, it only gets to that point if people are there to prove they're Right. And in the context of this forum, when people cross the line, that's when people should use Report Post feature to have a moderator intervene.
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