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Old 2009-08-09, 04:49   Link #341
Kaisos Erranon
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Originally Posted by AsterSelene View Post
But but but but but all of the advertising was on Disappearance.
They hate us.

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Originally Posted by AsterSelene View Post
Go right ahead!
*cue manical laughter* Thank you very much.

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Originally Posted by Ithekro View Post
It doesn't matter at this point. Seriously, it doesn't.
But he's wrooooong.

Yes, I'll stop, I'll stop.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:51   Link #342
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
It. Still. Isn't. Novel. Canon. Which. Is. My. Point.
Not containing every single minor occurrence doesn't disqualify something from being an alternate form of canon. Altering events, or adding some however does. Only in that particular instance though. If you are holding out for an anime that is 100% canon you will be waiting till the end of time mate.
Haruhi is pretty much as close as I have seen, and the vast majority of the time it's a faithful adaptation. Containing every major event without (to my knowledge) exception.

Your idea of "Novel Canon" doesn't seem relevant to even use in description of any adaptation. Are you going to claim that the LotR movies aren't canon because they missed a crapload of events out, yet still contains all of the important core story?

Well sorry, but I think that's rather silly.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:51   Link #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
They hate us.
Hm. Weird. Kouyouen Haruhi pictures ads, Yuki making that pulling motion...well, they DID give us eight Endless Eight...



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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
*cue manical laughter* Thank you very much.
I shiver to see what you will do with this.


Anyway, I'm turning in, seeing as I've officially gotten NO SLEEP AT ALL until early morning, so I'm gonna sleep through the afternoon! Yay!
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:52   Link #344
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
Not containing every single minor occurrence doesn't disqualify something from being an alternate form of canon. Altering events, or adding some however does. Only in that particular instance though. If you are holding out for an anime that is 100% canon you will be waiting till the end of time mate.
Haruhi is pretty much as close as I have seen, and the vast majority of the time it's a faithful adaptation. Containing every major event without (to my knowledge) exception.

Your idea of "Novel Canon" doesn't seem relevant to even use in description of any adaptation. Are you going to claim that the LotR movies aren't canon because they missed a crapload of events out, yet still contains all of the important core story?

Well sorry, but I think that's rather silly.
KyoAni is forced to let Tanigawa-sensei approve every scene, so even if it's not exactly canon we can at least give it more respect than most anime adaptations of manga.
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Old 2009-08-09, 04:57   Link #345
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Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
If you are holding out for an anime that is 100% canon you will be waiting till the end of time mate.
Wh--?

Seriously

What?!


I was only saying that you can't use anything the anime, and only the anime, did when trying to cite evidence for theories in relation to the the books.

I wasn't knocking the adaptation at all.
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Old 2009-08-09, 05:09   Link #346
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
I was only saying that you can't use anything the anime, and only the anime, did when trying to cite evidence for theories in relation to the the books.

I wasn't knocking the adaptation at all.
Quote:
First, nothing in the anime counts as canon, whatsoever.
What else am I supposed to surmise from that sentence? It seems to be a pretty black and white statement.
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Old 2009-08-09, 05:12   Link #347
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Originally Posted by Nudvik View Post
What else am I supposed to surmise from that sentence? It seems to be a pretty black and white statement.
Fine, "novel canon", then.

Anime is its own canon.
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Old 2009-08-09, 06:18   Link #348
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Anime-canon and novel-canon are different, and novel-canon is what I'm referring to here.

Again, the author had little to do with the adaptation as a whole.

Adaptations, by default, are non-canon compared to the original work.
The shipping debate was interesting, but this I have a problem with. Just because the mediums are different doesn't mean they should be treated as different kinds of canon, since there should be only one canon per franchise. All else is either retconed canon or fanfic (flavor lore is considered canon). IIRC, Tanigawa was part of the episode planning team and he himself endorsed the change in LIS.

Case in point: the Warcraft books. These books were written by different authors with differing storytelling styles but they we're all supervised and endorsed as canon by Chris Metzen, Blizzard's main Warcraft lorecrafter.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I'd rather have the discussion move on to something else.
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Old 2009-08-09, 06:35   Link #349
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
The shipping debate was interesting, but this I have a problem with. Just because the mediums are different doesn't mean they should be treated as different kinds of canon, since there should be only one canon per franchise. All else is either retconed canon or fanfic (flavor lore is considered canon). IIRC, Tanigawa was part of the episode planning team and he himself endorsed the change in LIS.

Case in point: the Warcraft books. These books were written by different authors with differing storytelling styles but they we're all supervised and endorsed as canon by Chris Metzen, Blizzard's main Warcraft lorecrafter.

Anyway, these are just my thoughts. I'd rather have the discussion move on to something else.
Why do you say that it "should be only one canon per franchise"?Most anime don't work like that. Usually the author don't bother about making his work consistent to the adaptions. Tanigawa can just say that there is no mole on Kyon's neck, for exemple. Also on his books Imouto-chan didn't go to the lone island while on the anime she did.

For another exemple, pick DragonBall. Dragon Ball: Online ignores Dragonball GT. Also, I am sure many fans will be pissed if you say that Dragonball Evolution is cannon.

Warcraft, Star Wars, Warhammer40000... All of then has many authors, and all books are cannon. Suzumiya has only one author, Tanigawa. The anime and the manga is an adaption, de books are independent of them.
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Old 2009-08-09, 07:25   Link #350
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My take on the shipping wars thus far...


To be completely honest and frank, I tended to see the bossy, charismatic, dynamic, and passionate Haruhi as a bad romantic mix with the subdued easily pushed-over Kyon. Oh, I get that they work as a comedian/straight-man routine, but an outright serious romance/marriage perhaps should have two people involved in it more like one another than Haruhi and Kyon are.

Nonetheless, it's obviously the most likely pairing to result based on the narrative framework of this anime/novel, and also based on the simple rule that main male protagonist usually ends up with the main female protagonist (unless one or the other is already attached to someone else - and even then that's not a foolproof exception).


The first seven parts of Endless Eight took my reservations towards HaruhiKyon even farther though - it made me think that Haruhi is simply flat-out too good for this imbecilic lazy bum Kyon.

The final part of Endless Eight, though... if Kyon can show a bit more of his Kamina side; maybe enough to even reign Haruhi in a bit - then I can perhaps like the pairing. Basically, if Kaisos theory holds true, then I'm fine with HaruhiKyon.

Spoiler for Novel 4:



All told, if I were to give percentages for various shipping outcomes at this point (I may adjust them as I read further into the novels though), these would be them...

Kyon and Haruhi - 40%
Kyon and Yuki - 20%
Kyon and Mikuru - 10% (it would be higher if not for what Kaisos said)
Kyon and some other girl - 10%
Kyon remains unattached - 20%

Haruhi has as good a chance as all the other girls combined. It wouldn't shock me to see the shipping wars end with out firm conclusion, though - only one novel left, and a kiss in a "dream" is as far as Kyon as gotten with anybody yet.. a lot of ground has to be made up, and made up fast.


Alternate shipping possibilities...

Mikuru and Kyon - 10%
Mikuru and Koizumi - 10% (he does consistently compliment her, I find)
Mikuru and Haruhi - 5% (Haruhi is slightly bi-sexual, I think - leans straight, but some lesbianism and she adores Mikuru)

Mikuru remains unattached - 75% (poor girl)


Koizumi and Mikuru - 10%
Koizumi and Yuki - 1% (only because these two are so mysterious)
Koizumi and some other girl - 25% (if Haruhi becomes attached, he moves freely)
Koizumi remains unattached - 64%

Haruhi and Kyon - 40%
Haruhi and Mikuru - 5%
Haruhi remains unattached - 55%

And you can determine Yuki's percentages from the above - I don't see her ending up with anybody other than Kyon, Koizumi, or nobody at all.
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Old 2009-08-09, 07:43   Link #351
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Sheesh, I could imagine Tanigawa reading the countless shipping debates (such as the one in this thread), which in turn causes him -- out of sheer exasperation -- to execute a Macross Frontier "solution"...
Spoiler:
... at the end of the last novel. That way everyone will be pissed off.
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Old 2009-08-09, 07:46   Link #352
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What a detailed post! A agree with most you said anyway. Though I would give Kyon with Haruhi more then 50%. Both are the focus of the series.

For Yuki, after a certan chapter, I can definitivelly see her with some one in the end. Even if is a random one. (this chapter is on book 6, if you are wondering) I am also a KyonYuki shipper, though I really don't believe it is happening.

Ah, you forget KyonxKoizumi . I understand who says Itsuki is not gay, only like to tease Kyon. However, In novel9 he use himself as an exemple to someone Kyon would be jelous (before he move to Mikuru). It wasn't a tease, because Kyon didn't even know they are talking about romantic feelings. I really don't remeber Itsuki saying he acts gay to please Haruhi (outside TVtropes, at last). Also, he only act gay when Haruhi is notalround. I find the theory he thinks Kyon is hot because a mental link with Haruhi more understandable.

Novel10 is not the last, btw. Or, at last, no one ever said it (officialy speaking).
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Old 2009-08-09, 08:08   Link #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
What a detailed post!
Thanks! I've always been interested in seeing how romances play out in stories, and Haruhi's anime is certainly no exception.


Quote:
A agree with most you said anyway. Though I would give Kyon with Haruhi more then 50%. Both are the focus of the series.
Well... if it goes longer than 10 novels, I agree. You could then take 15% off of the "unattached" possibility for both of them and swing it to that pairing, making it...

Kyon and Haruhi - 55%
Kyon remains unattached - 5%

Haruhi and Kyon - 55%
Haruhi remains unattached - 40%


Quote:

For Yuki, after a certan chapter, I can definitivelly see her with some one in the end. Even if is a random one. (this chapter is on book 6, if you are wondering) I am also a KyonYuki shipper, though I really don't believe it is happening.
KyonYuki is genuinely cute to me - moreso than HaruhiKyon at this juncture. But then, there's been more than a few canon pairings that I didn't like as much as an alternate pairing. And HaruhiKyon is giving me this "fated" vibe - it's not so much a matter of mushy romantic feelings, or even lust, as much as its a matter of sheer emotional attachment. Kyon and Haruhi are very attached to one another. They're definitely best friends... neither are good at showing that, is all.


Quote:

Ah, you forget KyonxKoizumi . I understand who says Itsuki is not gay, only like to tease Kyon. However, In novel9 he use himself as an exemple to someone Kyon would be jelous (before he move to Mikuru). It wasn't a tease, because Kyon didn't even know they are talking about romantic feelings. I really don't remeber Itsuki saying he acts gay to please Haruhi (outside TVtropes, at last). Also, he only act gay when Haruhi is notalround. I find the theory he thinks Kyon is hot because a mental link with Haruhi more understandable.
Even if Koizumi is gay, though, Kyon is as straight as an arrow... and Koizumi is too classy to try to force himself on somebody.
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Old 2009-08-09, 08:16   Link #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
My take on the shipping wars thus far...


To be completely honest and frank, I tended to see the bossy, charismatic, dynamic, and passionate Haruhi as a bad romantic mix with the subdued easily pushed-over Kyon. Oh, I get that they work as a comedian/straight-man routine, but an outright serious romance/marriage perhaps should have two people involved in it more like one another than Haruhi and Kyon are.

Nonetheless, it's obviously the most likely pairing to result based on the narrative framework of this anime/novel, and also based on the simple rule that main male protagonist usually ends up with the main female protagonist (unless one or the other is already attached to someone else - and even then that's not a foolproof exception).


The first seven parts of Endless Eight took my reservations towards HaruhiKyon even farther though - it made me think that Haruhi is simply flat-out too good for this imbecilic lazy bum Kyon.

The final part of Endless Eight, though... if Kyon can show a bit more of his Kamina side; maybe enough to even reign Haruhi in a bit - then I can perhaps like the pairing. Basically, if Kaisos theory holds true, then I'm fine with HaruhiKyon.

Spoiler for Novel 4:



All told, if I were to give percentages for various shipping outcomes at this point (I may adjust them as I read further into the novels though), these would be them...

Kyon and Haruhi - 40%
Kyon and Yuki - 20%
Kyon and Mikuru - 10% (it would be higher if not for what Kaisos said)
Kyon and some other girl - 10%
Kyon remains unattached - 20%

Haruhi has as good a chance as all the other girls combined. It wouldn't shock me to see the shipping wars end with out firm conclusion, though - only one novel left, and a kiss in a "dream" is as far as Kyon as gotten with anybody yet.. a lot of ground has to be made up, and made up fast.


Alternate shipping possibilities...

Mikuru and Kyon - 10%
Mikuru and Koizumi - 10% (he does consistently compliment her, I find)
Mikuru and Haruhi - 5% (Haruhi is slightly bi-sexual, I think - leans straight, but some lesbianism and she adores Mikuru)

Mikuru remains unattached - 75% (poor girl)


Koizumi and Mikuru - 10%
Koizumi and Yuki - 1% (only because these two are so mysterious)
Koizumi and some other girl - 25% (if Haruhi becomes attached, he moves freely)
Koizumi remains unattached - 64%

Haruhi and Kyon - 40%
Haruhi and Mikuru - 5%
Haruhi remains unattached - 55%

And you can determine Yuki's percentages from the above - I don't see her ending up with anybody other than Kyon, Koizumi, or nobody at all.
Kaisos is gonna get on your ass for the bolded text; but I agree Mikuru will be alone throughout the series (Take THAT, moe-blob >:-D).

Koizumi will also probably remain alone; if not, it's probably gonna be Haruhi (but, seeing as how she's gaga over Kyon...). Yuki might end up with Kyon, Haruhi might end up with Kyon, Kyon might end up with either. IMO anyway.

BTW, nice post; I know I don't have that much patience.
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Old 2009-08-09, 08:27   Link #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Thanks! I've always been interested in seeing how romances play out in stories, and Haruhi's anime is certainly no exception.
I am also interested in it, so I am curious if you already did something similar before. Do you happen to have a blog with this kind of thing?

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Well... if it goes longer than 10 novels, I agree. You could then take 15% off of the "unattached" possibility for both of them and swing it to that pairing, making it...

Kyon and Haruhi - 55%
Kyon remains unattached - 5%

Haruhi and Kyon - 55%
Haruhi remains unattached - 40%
Don't understand why having more the 10 novels helps here. Specially because the 9 and, probably 10, are focused on Haruhi. I agree with this odds, anyway.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
KyonYuki is genuinely cute to me - moreso than HaruhiKyon at this juncture. But then, there's been more than a few canon pairings that I didn't like as much as an alternate pairing. And HaruhiKyon is giving me this "fated" vibe - it's not so much a matter of mushy romantic feelings, or even lust, as much as its a matter of sheer emotional attachment. Kyon and Haruhi are very attached to one another. They're definitely best friends... neither are good at showing that, is all.
I usually like more the cannon paring. I like KyonYuki bacause, after novel4, they have a good chemestry (more then Kyon and Mikuru). I agree with you say about KyonHaruhi, though I have never thought so deep.

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Originally Posted by Triple_R View Post
Even if Koizumi is gay, though, Kyon is as straight as an arrow... and Koizumi is too classy to try to force himself on somebody.
It was more a joke . Koizumi has more hints about having feelings for Haruhi then for Kyon. I was only pointing that it has hints for the latter. That is why I said the mental link theory is plausible. Or he is just bi.

Also, "straight as an arrow". Funny how metaphor works, this phrase don't make sense when I (mentally) translate it to portuguese (soo it took me a while to understand).
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Old 2009-08-09, 08:48   Link #356
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Why do you say that it "should be only one canon per franchise"?Most anime don't work like that. Usually the author don't bother about making his work consistent to the adaptions. Tanigawa can just say that there is no mole on Kyon's neck, for exemple. Also on his books Imouto-chan didn't go to the lone island while on the anime she did.

For another exemple, pick DragonBall. Dragon Ball: Online ignores Dragonball GT. Also, I am sure many fans will be pissed if you say that Dragonball Evolution is cannon.

Warcraft, Star Wars, Warhammer40000... All of then has many authors, and all books are cannon. Suzumiya has only one author, Tanigawa. The anime and the manga is an adaption, de books are independent of them.
Since a franchise's canon is considered its identity, multiple canons don't work.

Yes. What I meant was that we should consider anime-LIS as a retcon if it is confirmed that Tanigawa had a hand on episode planning. As with the case with multiple authors, any work that the original author/lorecrafter blesses as canon will be part of canon.

Anime example: Ga-Rei Zero

Popular example: And Another Thing..., the upcoming book of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
It was announced on 17 September 2008 that Artemis Fowl author Eoin Colfer has been commissioned to write the sixth instalment entitled And Another Thing... with Jane Belson, Adams' widow, giving her approval. The book is intended to be published by Penguin Books in the UK and Hyperion in the US in October 2009.
Back to shipping...
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Old 2009-08-09, 09:04   Link #357
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Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Since a franchise's canon is considered its identity, multiple canons don't work.
Wait, I probably understand wrong what 'cannon' mean. 'Cannon' is what "really happened" on a show. Things that you can see on screen and all. Cannon is part of the identity, but is not theidentity of a show. Or I am horrible mistaken? (and I want other word besides your here). Also, even if you say is true (i.e., I am mistake), then the anime is simply non-cannon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Yes. What I meant was that we should consider anime-LIS as a retcon if it is confirmed that Tanigawa had a hand on episode planning. As with the case with multiple authors, any work that the original author/lorecrafter blesses as canon will be part of canon.
Yeah, it can be a retcon if Tanigawa says so. But only if he says. Otherwise is just a divergence.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Anime example: Ga-Rei Zero
Do not know, sorry.

Another anime exemple (and a better one): Fullmetal Alchemist. The first anime is very different from the manga. It is a continuity by it own, has it own cannon. And it is not the manga one. (the second is another hsitory, being more faithfull to the manga)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Popular example: And Another Thing..., the upcoming book of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy series
Not the same thing. I am not saying that it can't be a cannon with multiplue authors. Just saying that a show can have more the one cannon. Besides, this continuation is happening only after the dead of the previous author.

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Back to shipping...
Eh, why? This is as important as shiping, I believe.

Last edited by Heatth; 2009-08-09 at 10:29.
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Old 2009-08-09, 10:14   Link #358
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Wait, I probably understand wrong what 'cannon' mean. 'Cannon' is what "really happened" on a show. Things that you can see on screen and all. Cannon is part of the identity, but is not theidentity of a show. Or I am horrible mistaken? (and I want other word besides your here). Also, even if you say is true (i.e., I am mistake), then the anime is simply non-cannon.
Yeah, I went overboard with the identity thing. I should have said that it makes up the majority of the identity. The Wikipedia entry may be a good reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction). Basically, "adaptation canon", a part or appendage of Canon (the main canon), is made by the adaptation writer. If this manages to deviate enough from the source, then it could lead to a new franchise. Note that a franchise is not held by name alone.
Anime example would be True Tears by PA Works. True Tears (game) and True Tears (anime) have completely different plots and characters.
However, by glancing at this article, one can say that canon is loosely used as a word to describe the original story itself. For example, the difference between fanon and "adaptation canon" becomes blurry when an adaptation references fan speculation.

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Another anime exemple (and a better one: Fullmetal Alchemist. The first anime is very different from the manga. It is a continuity by it own, has it own cannon. And it is not the manga one. (the second is another hsitory, being more faithfull to the manga)
And it is being retconed right now. Hmm... The way I see it, the anime-original parts of FMA 1 are the anime writer's fanfic.

The problem I see with multiple canons is that they might as well be split into different franchises under one brand name. But that's just me. I, too, would would like to hear others' thoughts on this.
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Old 2009-08-09, 10:28   Link #359
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Yeah, I went overboard with the identity thing. I should have said that it makes up the majority of the identity. The Wikipedia entry may be a good reference: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_(fiction). Basically, "adaptation canon", a part or appendage of Canon (the main canon), is made by the adaptation writer. If this manages to deviate enough from the source, then it could lead to a new franchise. Note that a franchise is not held by name alone.
Yeah, I agree with that. Though, I guess you could say it is branch of the same franchise.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
Anime example would be True Tears by PA Works. True Tears (game) and True Tears (anime) have completely different plots and characters.
I don't know it, but I guess you could say each one have it own canon.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
And it is being retconed right now. Hmm... The way I see it, the anime-original parts of FMA 1 are the anime writer's fanfic.
I wouldn't call it a retcon. As I said, is another continuity. Hmmm, it seen I have a loose definition for cannon. Yeah, I guess you can call it a fanfic. However, eve a fanfic can have it own cannon. Not the same of the orignial show, obviously.

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Originally Posted by Ice Block View Post
The problem I see with multiple canons is that they might as well be split into different franchises under one brand name. But that's just me. I, too, would would like to hear others' thoughts on this.
I think is just like it. The novel!Suzumiya Haruhi is not the same as manga!Suzumiya Haruhi or anime!Suzumiya Haruhi. The latters are not a retcon from the first, just different things. The can share somethings, like Some Day in The Rain, which may be considered canon (I am not sure, though). However, Imouto being on the Lone Island is not canon, is anime only. You can say it is a fanfic or it is part of the anime cannon, but is not novel canon.

Post Postum:

An exemple of the "fanfic canon": Here you can see the archives of the Genderbend Project. A serie of fanfics. There is a lot of writes there, however, we only consider Kaiso's as offcial, canon here. There is no much importance (since this fanfics are just as important as any other), however, the Visual Novel Project being a child of this one, only consider the 'canon' of it (so Ryou attackeed Kyonko with a katana, not knife, even thoug dkellis write a scene with him using the latter).

You may not call it 'canon', if you think it is wrong. It is just the word I am using to describe it.

Last edited by Heatth; 2009-08-09 at 10:43.
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Old 2009-08-09, 11:49   Link #360
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My take on the "What is canon?" debate.

My view is that there's four basic levels of canon. Ranging from most authoritative to least authoritative, imo, they are...

1) Source Material canon

2) Alternative material canon

3) Adaptation canon

4) Fan-created canon (i.e. gender-bended Haruhi being a good example here)


I hasten to add that there are anime original animes - Magical Girl Lyrical Nanoha is, IIRC, an anime original anime. So, any mangas or novels spawning from that anime are the adaptation (or alternative) canon. Mangas and novels are not always the source material for anime - there are instances (rare though they may be) where the opposite is true.

Source material canon simply means the initial canon in its initial medium form, whatever that may be. For Haruhi, its the novels. For Nanoha, its the anime. For Bleach, its the manga. And so on, and so forth.

So, the Haruhi novels are the definitive authoritative canon for Haruhi... if anything is.


Now, alternative material canon refers to canons that differ from the source material to such an extent that it's basically like looking at an alternate reality world of the source canon. Usually, this is intentional - as in the case of some of the different Tenchi Muyo! realities, for example. These various alternate material canons are authoritative but only unto themselves - they have no bearing on the source material, or any interpretations thereof. In some cases, they should be treated as a totally separate story. Alternative material canon is often recognized by how it shares the same medium as the source material, but is placed in an alternate universe or with a different series of events.


Adaptation canon refers to a medium translation of the source material - in Haruhi's case, from novel to anime. Source material canon is generally considered to trump adaptation canon where the two conflict... unless the adaptation canon is so radically different from the source material canon that you could consider it alternative material canon (which one could argue is the case with the older Full Metal Alchemist anime, as well as with the Shakugan no Shana anime). Seeing as how the Haruhi anime is a pretty faithful adaptation of the novel, thus far, the novel rules over any inconsistencies between the two, imo.

Now, it should be noted that adaptation canon frequently has a lot of fans that haven't read or played or watched the source material - loads of people watch anime but don't read much manga, for example. For these people, the adaptation canon is the only one that counts, and... I'm inclined to let them think what they want, and not be dogmatic with them as it pertains to the source material canon unless they go claim "It doesn't matter what the source material canon says! This is what happened in the anime so its true for the entire fandom, and we must all adhere to it!".


And finally, there's the fan-created canon - which is arguably not canon at all. As with adaptation canon, I'm not too dogmatic here unless fans of the fan-created fandom start saying that their fandom is more authoritative than even the source material is - then I jump in, and probably object. There is one caveat though - sometimes the source material is incredibly slim, and the fan-created fandom is basically all there is. The Touhou game, and the fandom that it was the catalyst for, comes immediately to mind here. In lieu of how Touhou has very, very little source material story, I'm inclined to consider fandom canon for it to be legitimate - it's filling in for the many gaps left by the game.

However, this isn't the case with Haruhi - not yet, anyway.

So, if Haruhi and Kyon end up together in the novels, but Kyon and Yuki; Haruhi and Mikuru end up together in the anime (I highly doubt that such a major difference will occur, but let's postulate that they do, just for argument's sake), then I'd either consider the novel canon ending the authoritative one... or I'd treat both canons as separate continuities/stories entirely.

Just my take. What do other people here think?




Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatth View Post
I am also interested in it, so I am curious if you already did something similar before. Do you happen to have a blog with this kind of thing?
No, I don't have a blog. I might consider making one, though, if anybody here would be interested in reading it. I could focus it primarily on Haruhi for now, and then tack on other animes that interest me.

Last edited by Triple_R; 2009-08-09 at 12:00.
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