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Old 2009-07-08, 00:38   Link #301
Theowne
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I guess it hits you when you watch the memorial video. Rest in peace, he wasn't meant for a world where greed will take advantage of generosity and childlike innocence like the kind he had.
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Old 2009-07-08, 01:51   Link #302
Gambino009
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Indeed.. he practically wasted a lot of his fortune trying to help those.. while his advisers told him he it wouldn't make a difference.

How sad.. looking back at the stuff he went through

This'll probably be one of the bigger things of the decade.. since 00-09 were the crappiest years ever.. I really miss the 90s
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Old 2009-07-08, 01:54   Link #303
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Originally Posted by Gambino009 View Post
Indeed.. he practically wasted a lot of his fortune trying to help those.. while his advisers told him he it wouldn't make a difference.

How sad.. looking back at the stuff he went through

This'll probably be one of the bigger things of the decade.. since 00-09 were the crappiest years ever.. I really miss the 90s
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Originally Posted by Theowne View Post
I guess it hits you when you watch the memorial video. Rest in peace, he wasn't meant for a world where greed will take advantage of generosity and childlike innocence like the kind he had.
You guys seem to see him as the victim. I, on the other hand, see him as the murderer.
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:03   Link #304
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Who did he murder?
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:11   Link #305
AnimeTheme
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
You guys seem to see him as the victim. I, on the other hand, see him as the murderer.
I am waiting to hear your grand theory.
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:13   Link #306
Gambino009
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
You guys seem to see him as the victim. I, on the other hand, see him as the murderer.
What kinda nonsense is this? I've heard a lot of things before.. but this is simply something that you want to believe.

The older folks respect him.. the younger folk spite him. Some simply just grew up with the MJ jokes... and absorbed it with out actually knowing what the reality was.

I've read many many many articles about him.. and almost 95% percent of them mentioned all the things he did for others.. and not one had anything of negative value besides the accusations and minor things people go through in life.

So let's hear your version that trumps all the credited writers
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:24   Link #307
Cipher
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
Who did he murder?
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Originally Posted by AnimeTheme View Post
I am waiting to hear your grand theory.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gambino009 View Post
What kinda nonsense is this? I've heard a lot of things before.. but this is simply something that you want to believe.

The older folks respect him.. the younger folk spite him. Some simply just grew up with the MJ jokes... and absorbed it with out actually knowing what the reality was.

I've read many many many articles about him.. and almost 95% percent of them mentioned all the things he did for others.. and not one had anything of negative value besides the accusations and minor things people go through in life.

So let's hear your version that trumps all the credited writers
XD..i have no grand theory or version that trumps all the credited writers but a, perhaps, illogical reason to believe he committed suicide. A reason well-known as instinct.
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:32   Link #308
Gambino009
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Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought)

Perhaps you should have worded your first statement as, You guys seem to see him as the victim but I believe he committed suicide.
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Old 2009-07-08, 02:57   Link #309
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Originally Posted by Gambino009 View Post
Murder, as defined in common law countries, is the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought)

Perhaps you should have worded your first statement as, You guys seem to see him as the victim but I believe he committed suicide.
i have my own definition of murder...hehe^^...Call it an escape from the fail but people can change definitions of words simply by applying it with their own perception. In fact, Many English words today are actually not originally what they generally mean today.
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Old 2009-07-08, 03:12   Link #310
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
i have my own definition of murder...hehe^^...Call it an escape from the fail but people can change definitions of words simply by applying it with their own perception. In fact, Many English words today are actually not originally what they generally mean today.
.... Please, no linguistics here.

In any case, those drugs which he took were no paracetomol. So yeah, I do think that he was gambling with his life.
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Old 2009-07-08, 03:57   Link #311
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The memorial was wow...really sad.
God bless his children, and his family.
RIP Michael Jackson
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Old 2009-07-08, 04:07   Link #312
Cipher
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Originally Posted by yezhanquan View Post
.... Please, no linguistics here.

In any case, those drugs which he took were no paracetomol. So yeah, I do think that he was gambling with his life.
In other words, he murdered himself.
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Old 2009-07-08, 04:33   Link #313
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Well, even if he did commit suicide, it doesn't erase all the good he's done to help others. And doesn't suicide make his death even more tragic?

He's raised hundreds of millions of dollars to help people around the world and yet he himself had troubles which caused him to (let's just assume he did) commit suicide.
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Old 2009-07-08, 04:38   Link #314
kenjiharima
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Originally Posted by Woopzilla View Post
Well, even if he did commit suicide, it doesn't erase all the good he's done to help others. And doesn't suicide make his death even more tragic?

He's raised hundreds of millions of dollars to help people around the world and yet he himself had troubles which caused him to (let's just assume he did) commit suicide.
QFT.

Bad deeds can't be erased and so are good deeds.
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Old 2009-07-08, 04:56   Link #315
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Originally Posted by kenjiharima View Post
QFT.

Bad deeds can't be erased and so are good deeds.
...that depends on perception again. On how you perceive "erase" i mean.
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Old 2009-07-08, 05:36   Link #316
Mystique
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
You guys seem to see him as the victim. I, on the other hand, see him as the murderer.
Quote:
i have my own definition of murder...hehe^^...Call it an escape from the fail but people can change definitions of words simply by applying it with their own perception. In fact, Many English words today are actually not originally what they generally mean today.
Quote:
In other words, he murdered himself.
Quote:
Suicide (Latin suicidium, from sui caedere, to kill oneself) is the intentional taking of one's own life
Taking medication which has a higher risk of hurting you is one thing, in this case pain killers on a severe level.
Taking meds to directly end your life there and then is another.

I do not think his mindset or his love for his kids for was him to go;
"You know what, let me kill myself already."
(Man, he had plenty of low moments in his life to do that, if he really wanted to on "instinct".)
Nor (and I will take the word of some of the producers of the London tour he worked with while they were rehearsing) was he even in a mindset to die.

Michael has said it time and time again about himself in tons of interviews, when he's on stage, he shines, he's at home, he feels comfortable, he loves his fans no matter where they come from.
And with 750,000 tickets sold in 4 hrs after 8 years of silence, in addition to the rehearsal videos and just his attitude and professionalism as a performer, I don't think suicide counts on the list today.

That's with actual intent of ending it all and he had too much going for him.
If we are really gonna be nit picky with "suicide", then we may as well throw in Heath Ledger while we're at it.
Quote:
He died at the age of 28, from an accidental "toxic combination of prescription drugs".
How curious that people were fast to rule out suicide with this dude.

You're entitled to your opinion, but remember in a thread like this which is somewhat sensitive for some, to project opinions especially of those which are challenging the general belief here, it's advisable not to throw whimsical sentences with no basis of your opinion such as:
"I have my own definition of the word 'murder' in the English language"

While the language does evolve over time, I'm pretty sure in a non slang sense, the definition of murder is pretty much universal and does not apply in this case.
Quote:
Murder: the unlawful killing of another human being with intent (or malice aforethought)
Suicide, murder, accidental death, fact still remains that he's a victim and more or less always has been to be honest.
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Old 2009-07-08, 05:52   Link #317
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Originally Posted by Gambino009 View Post
Perhaps you should have worded your first statement as, You guys seem to see him as the victim but I believe he committed suicide.
In this case, he is still the "victim".
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Old 2009-07-08, 06:10   Link #318
Cipher
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I do not think his mindset or his love for his kids for was him to go;
"You know what, let me kill myself already."
(Man, he had plenty of low moments in his life to do that, if he really wanted to on "instinct".)
Nor (and I will take the word of some of the producers of the London tour he worked with while they were rehearsing) was he even in a mindset to die.

Michael has said it time and time again about himself in tons of interviews, when he's on stage, he shines, he's at home, he feels comfortable, he loves his fans no matter where they come from.
And with 750,000 tickets sold in 4 hrs after 8 years of silence, in addition to the rehearsal videos and just his attitude and professionalism as a performer, I don't think suicide counts on the list today.
Good point but your reasoning is not quite enough to remove the likelihood that it was a suicide. There are points that support and reject this idea but not enough to tip the scale to one side.

Quote:
You're entitled to your opinion, but remember in a thread like this which is somewhat sensitive for some, to project opinions especially of those which are challenging the general belief here, it's advisable not to throw whimsical sentences with no basis of your opinion such as:
"I have my own definition of the word 'murder' in the English language"
I did not mean it to be whimsical nor lack of basis. Although not followed by the majority, a word can mean anything. But yeah, I did not consider the feelings of fans of Michael Jackson and just jumped out for the sake of my own selfish reasons.

Quote:
While the language does evolve over time, I'm pretty sure in a non slang sense, the definition of murder is pretty much universal and does not apply in this case.
Indeed the meaning of murder is clear by majority, but, to make it simple, lets just say THAT murder is different from MY murder.

Quote:
Suicide, murder, accidental death, fact still remains that he's a victim and more or less always has been to be honest.
Yes, he is a victim technically, but up to a certain point. In my opinion, he was more of the "other" than the victim. Sorry for disturbing people's sensitivities.
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Old 2009-07-08, 07:22   Link #319
Mystique
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Originally Posted by Cipher View Post
Good point but your reasoning is not quite enough to remove the likelihood that it was a suicide. There are points that support and reject this idea but not enough to tip the scale to one side.
Then by all means bring them to the surface to support your claim, especially if you're challenging the general belief (not in just this case but any topic you engage in).
You're replying in the general chat thread, which typically tends to be a place of debate, so let's hear the other side which has enough evidence to make the scales balance so it can tip eitherway.

There are no general points to indicate suicide last time I checked around. Offical ruling of not 1 but 2 post mortems already declare 'no foul play', so you've lost that basis, it's sounding like pure speculation at the moment, which no, I cannot absolutely remove such a claim anymore than can an official judgement from the court remove the likelihood that Princess Diana's death was not purely accidental.
Secondly, it depends on what the individual thinks and in my case, suicide has never even entered my mind, nor will a shred of it even be creditable to be honest.
Methinks it's the same for millions of peeps around the world and for those who were actively working and living with him in these last few months.

Like I said, MJ had plenty of unfortunate moments in his life to play with suicide if he really wanted to but one main thing he did was pour his frustrations into his music:
(see, "Scream", "Black and White" and "Leave me alone")
Just to name a few.
That's a form of escapism and therapy, it's an outlet to survive.
So no... the suicide theory is still kinda feeling weak... least in my opinion.
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Old 2009-07-08, 07:26   Link #320
Cipher
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Originally Posted by Mystique View Post
Then by all means bring them to the surface to support your claim, especially if you're challenging the general belief (not in just this case but any topic you engage in).
You're replying in the general chat thread, which typically tends to be a place of debate, so let's hear the other side which has enough evidence to make the scales balance so it can tip eitherway.

There are no general points to indicate suicide last time I checked around. Offical ruling of not 1 but 2 post mortems already declare 'no foul play', so you've lost that basis, it's sounding like pure speculation at the moment.
Secondly, it depends on what the individual thinks and in my case, suicide has never even entered my mind, nor will a shred of it even be creditable to be honest.
Methinks it's the same for millions of peeps around the world and for those who were actively working and living with him in these last few months.

Like I said, MJ had plenty of unfortunate moments in his life to play with suicide if he really wanted to but one main thing he did was pour his frustrations into his music:
(see, "Scream", "Black and White" and "Leave me alone")
Just to name a few.
That's a form of escapism and therapy, it's an outlet to survive.
So no... the suicide theory is still kinda feeling weak... least in my opinion.
Not to my instincts..hehe^^"...yeah i'm sticking with my illogical reason.
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