AnimeSuki Forums

Register Forum Rules FAQ Members List Social Groups Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Go Back   AnimeSuki Forum > Anime Discussion > Older Series > Retired > Umineko

Notices

View Poll Results: Umineko - Episode 1 Rating
Perfect 10 42 15.73%
9 out of 10 : Excellent 50 18.73%
8 out of 10 : Very Good 67 25.09%
7 out of 10 : Good 57 21.35%
6 out of 10 : Average 28 10.49%
5 out of 10 : Below Average 10 3.75%
4 out of 10 : Poor 5 1.87%
3 out of 10 : Bad 6 2.25%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad 0 0%
1 out of 10 : Painful 2 0.75%
Voters: 267. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 2009-07-03, 17:20   Link #281
Kitsu
The unlucky one
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Hiding
Oh, my bad. I should read the subs again sometime soon. but you see, then it's Rosa's fault for saying to her daughter from which she knows that she will do so to saty in the rain. And I agree with Klashikari.
__________________
Thanks for the Signature, Vandakiara
Kitsu is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 17:27   Link #282
Scython
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
We're *this* close to a child abuse discussion. Let's call it quits now.
Anyway, I also noticed Kinzo's mouth animation being way off. Like they do with those Canadians from South Park, just 'up & down'. Pretty lazy.
Scython is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 17:28   Link #283
Yami Sonozaki
Shion's follower xD
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe -> Romania
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to Yami Sonozaki Send a message via Yahoo to Yami Sonozaki
Well you can't really say it was something that will affect her psyche in a huge way.
It wasn't a brutal beating, or the likes, I've seen worse in other anime or real life.
It was 2 slaps, so I don't think it will/would affect her so much. At least Rosa felt sorry for it, so it seems she had no other option at hand. I mean... what could have been done in that part? If you'd ask her nicely and she wouldn't stop >_> ...
Anyway, like it or not, it's still a part of child development. It's not supposed to happen? Sure. But it still does..

Quote:
We're *this* close to a child abuse discussion. Let's call it quits now.
Yeah, you're right xd.
Yami Sonozaki is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 17:30   Link #284
Westlo
Lets be reality
 
 
Join Date: May 2007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yami Sonozaki View Post
At least Rosa felt sorry for it, so it seems she had no other option at hand. I mean... what could have been done in that part?
Clearly she was suppose to go to a phone, make some calls and fly in Doctor Phil on a helicopter so he could resolve this. And yes you're right abuse like this happens and was probably more accepted during the time period Umineko was set in compared to now.
Westlo is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 17:45   Link #285
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
I will tweek the discussion slightly more on Maria's case, but anyway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yami Sonozaki View Post
Well you can't really say it was something that will affect her psyche in a huge way.
Being a VN player myself, you are really tempting me. *cough*
That said: I believe it is quite the opposite: it did. The simple fact Maria increases her UU UU despite Rosa is yelling points big time a problem in development already.
To begin with, Rosa didn't even care why Maria was acting like this and directly wanted her to stop the Uu uu. As result Maria starts being more whiny exactly because her own mother fails to see her problem.

And we got the vicious circle as result.
Quote:
It wasn't a brutal beating, or the likes, I've seen worse in other anime or real life.
I beg to differ, but a beating that isn't "worse" than what you could see doesn't mean it is anything right. To begin with, I don't think slapping to the point of pushing back the child and going on again is anything "non brutal".
Quote:
It was 2 slaps, so I don't think it will/would affect her so much. At least Rosa felt sorry for it, so it seems she had no other option at hand. I mean... what could have been done in that part? If you'd ask her nicely and she wouldn't stop >_> ...
Sure, 2 slaps... and considering her behaviour, what guarantee she didn't do that on several occasions? Considering how fast she slapped Maria, it certainly looked that way.

And you know what would be one of the best solution? hugging maria, explaining about how the rose might have disappeared etc. Children aren't dumb and even if Maria was shown too innocent, this episode also has shown that Maria CAN listen, if words are used properly.

Was Maria annoying? Probably. Was a beating necessary? nope, nowhere close to this.
Klashikari is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 18:16   Link #286
Yami Sonozaki
Shion's follower xD
 
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Europe -> Romania
Age: 26
Send a message via MSN to Yami Sonozaki Send a message via Yahoo to Yami Sonozaki
Sure more Maria talk. So she'll be hated even more :P

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klashikari
Being a VN player myself, you are really tempting me. *cough*
That said: I believe it is quite the opposite: it did. The simple fact Maria increases her UU UU despite Rosa is yelling points big time a problem in development already.
To begin with, Rosa didn't even care why Maria was acting like this and directly wanted her to stop the Uu uu. As result Maria starts being more whiny exactly because her own mother fails to see her problem.
Well I haven't played the VN, so I don't really know how much it did affect her in the show (if it did). But Rosa did know that she was looking for that rose, which I guess was her problem at the time, so you can't say Rosa failed to see it. But the usage of that extended ~uu didn't make any difference nor did it help in any way. What could she prove to her mother by constantly doing that? At least Rosa showed enough interest in her problem to come up there and assist. I still blame this whole part on Maria and her stubbornness.

Quote:
I beg to differ, but a beating that isn't "worse" than what you could see doesn't mean it is anything right. To begin with, I don't think slapping to the point of pushing back the child and going on again is anything "non brutal".
I didn't say it was right =P.

Quote:
Sure, 2 slaps... and considering her behavior, what guarantee she didn't do that on several occasions? Considering how fast she slapped Maria, it certainly looked that way.
Well there's no guarantee she DID that before at all. It could have been a simple "reflex" caused by the intense atmosphere of the moment. After all, she was pretty stressed already from the chatter with her siblings, and Maria's ~uu and stubbornness didn't help at all. It may have been even unintentional. A sudden move made because of the inability to think straight at the moment.

Quote:
And you know what would be one of the best solution? hugging maria, explaining about how the rose might have disappeared etc. Children aren't dumb and even if Maria was shown too innocent, this episode also has shown that Maria CAN listen, if words are used properly.
You gotta think of all possibilities here. What if that wouldn't have worked either? Being stubborn is one thing, being stupid is another :P.Well the beating didn't work either, but at least it built drama, so it was good for the episode.
As for a case like this in real life, it could have ended either way, depends on character.
Yami Sonozaki is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 18:21   Link #287
Squirrellord
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Send a message via MSN to Squirrellord
lol, I think you're fighting an uphill battle here, Yami~
Rosa's a love or hate character. It's unfortunate that most people all fall on the side you're not
__________________
Squirrellord is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 18:31   Link #288
milkypink
♥~☆~♥
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
It doesn't even matter if you LIKE Maria or not - striking her was not the correct option. Yes, the Uu~ uu~ was annoying, and Rosa's frustrated, but the violence is not getting the point across anyway! When hit, Maria does not stop saying it, which means the punishment is ineffective. The fact that Rosa says "haven't I told you many times before to not say that?!" makes it clear that this is an ongoing issue between the two of them that they've not really figured out a good way to resolve.

Yes, it's difficult being a single mother. Yes, Maria may have other issues that make her not very receptive to "normal" methods of discipline/education (not including physical violence in this here, btw), however, this doesn't make it okay to cross that line. It might have even been acceptable in the 1980s in Japan to beat children (although Battler's reaction leads me to think not so much...) but that still doesn't make it right.

I'm just glad Rosa walked away when she did...
milkypink is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 18:36   Link #289
Klashikari
Swords•Maidens Maniac
*Graphic Designer
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Belgium, Brussels
Age: 28
Send a message via Skype™ to Klashikari
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yami Sonozaki View Post
Well I haven't played the VN, so I don't really know how much it did affect her in the show (if it did). But Rosa did know that she was looking for that rose, which I guess was her problem at the time, so you can't say Rosa failed to see it. But the usage of that extended ~uu didn't make any difference nor did it help in any way. What could she prove to her mother by constantly doing that? At least Rosa showed enough interest in her problem to come up there and assist. I still blame this whole part on Maria and her stubbornness.
That wasn't my point. What I said is that Rosa failed to see the point of Maria's behaviour. Sure, Uu Uu was annoying for her at the given time, and?
Although it is normal to ask someone to stop something annoying, escalating it while the said person is STILL discontent doesn't help at all. To the contrary, it will make the person even more upset.

That is why I believe Rosa is much more at fault here: she wanted the Uu Uu to be stopped instead of resolving Maria's rose issue. If she didn't go berserk at that point and rather explained calmly about the rose, Maria would stop at some point her irritation and what not. That is the scope of the problem.
Quote:
It could have been a simple "reflex" caused by the intense atmosphere of the moment. After all, she was pretty stressed already from the chatter with her siblings, and Maria's ~uu and stubbornness didn't help at all. It may have been even unintentional. A sudden move made because of the inability to think straight at the moment.
I'm sorry, but a reflex assume that you have the habit of doing so. You don't start slapping a kid like this if you had never done beforehand. And no, it was intentional since she KEPT going on and lashed her wrath unless she decides to back to the mansion.
Slapping by accident would have made the whole deal stop right after the fist slap. Rosa multiplied that, and even told Battler her reasons for the violence. plus, she clearly stated she asked her to stop saying Uu several times in such fashion.

Therefore, it IS intentional.
Quote:
You gotta think of all possibilities here. What if that wouldn't have worked either? Being stubborn is one thing, being stupid is another :P.Well the beating didn't work either, but at least it built drama, so it was good for the episode.
As for a case like this in real life, it could have ended either way, depends on character.
Please remove the theorycraft, that wasn't the point. The fact Rosa didn't even try was the real matter. There was no guarantee that Maria would be tamed like this, but at least it would be possible. Lashing on her obviously wouldn't go anywhere.
The fact a method can fail to bear fruits doesn't mean you shouldn't even bother with it. Therefore, the fact Maria could still pulls her tantrum even after trying to calm her doesn't mean that method would always fail or doesn't worth it. To the contrary, forsaking it is an absolute blunder.

Built drama? That's for us, the spectators. I'm talking about the scope of the characters, that's it.

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-03 at 18:55.
Klashikari is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 19:58   Link #290
MeoTwister5
Komrades of Kitamura Kou
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Where I can learn to be lonely.
Age: 29
I won't comment anything more on the Rosa discussion, but I believe that anime viewers should reevaluate their opinion of Rosa say in the middle of the succeeding arc.
MeoTwister5 is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 20:05   Link #291
ClockWorkAngel
Aspiring Aspirer
 
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Canada
Age: 22
Send a message via MSN to ClockWorkAngel
Child abuse isn't right, EVER. There are better ways to deal with it. I'm sure that in other animes, mangas, media etc, there were worst forms of abuse (Elfenlied comes to mind for one particular character) but it doesn't make this form abuse any more acceptable or bad. Rosa is hurting Maria, when she doesn't need to. Sure it works for a while, but it doesn't solve the problem, it simply pushes it aside for a moment.
__________________

Credit To Risa-chan!

Last edited by Klashikari; 2009-07-03 at 20:18. Reason: let's avoid the most dangerous waters
ClockWorkAngel is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 20:13   Link #292
Proto
Knowledge is the solution
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: U. of Pittsburgh, Previously in Mexico City.
Age: 29
Quote:
Child abuse isn't right
A slap? Child abuse? Geez, kids these days are sissies I tell you, next thing you know parents won't be able to give a good spank to their kids any longer. Granted, I'm with you that Rosa wasn't exactly the best possible way to deal with the situation given that they were entering a vicious cycle, but there are situations when a good spanking is one o the few available solutions. (or for example, how do you explain your 3 year old kid that playing with the the gas stove isn't the best possible idea?)
Proto is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 20:34   Link #293
momobunny
◔ ◡ ◔
*Artist
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: ImaginaryLand
Age: 24
This discussion is becoming less and less about the episode itself and more about child abuse. ^^;
__________________

momobunny is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 20:40   Link #294
hodil
Solve me...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
First Episode was good.

Viewers *ahem* yes...Visual Novel readers *cough* are expecting a tad too much.

I think i can see where the studio is coming from. Its a rushed introduction and I believed they accepted it. The introductions in Legend of the golden witch werent that in depth anyways.

What i thought the studio was doing, was to skim through all the less-in-depth introductions now and come back to it in chapter 2 and so on. Wont be surprised if a full Eva introduction came in only at Banquet of the golden witch.

Even still, the stage has been set pretty nicely for all the mystery elements. Beatrice's shadowed appearance and Maria's performance in the garden was nicely done. Most probably would give first time viewers the thought, similar to higurashi, "Whats going to happen next?".

Loved the music from the opening and ending. The only opening scene i didnt really liked was them featuring too much on Shannon at the end. (Is this some kind of hint to VN readers?) I couldnt make out anything from the aquarium turning red... =.= Ending was simple and empty. Quite creepy too.

Overall 8/10 XD The next episode would be one of the most important nyeh~ Zts ftw.

Edit: was just wondering... maybe they should change the opening scenes every chapter... To include more people.
__________________
"._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._."
The blog of truths.

Last edited by hodil; 2009-07-03 at 20:51.
hodil is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 20:54   Link #295
luizf
Junior Member
 
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
@hodil
Spoiler for OP:
luizf is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 20:57   Link #296
hodil
Solve me...
 
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
@luizf

Heh. poor Kanon has no screen time =(
__________________
"._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._."._.". _."._."._."._."._."
The blog of truths.
hodil is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 21:17   Link #297
Saerianne
*cackle*
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Age: 19
I think they'll take scenes out and fill them with the characters from Banquet and Alliance. The thing I didn't like with the opening was the start where they do all the crazy stuff on beato's portrait.
Saerianne is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 22:18   Link #298
monir
cho~ kakkoii
*Moderator
 
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: 3rd Planet
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
A slap? Child abuse? Geez, kids these days are sissies I tell you, next thing you know parents won't be able to give a good spank to their kids any longer. Granted, I'm with you that Rosa wasn't exactly the best possible way to deal with the situation given that they were entering a vicious cycle, but there are situations when a good spanking is one o the few available solutions. (or for example, how do you explain your 3 year old kid that playing with the the gas stove isn't the best possible idea?)
lol.. my parents are old fashioned too. They have my thanks for actively contributing to this healthy butt.

In regards to Rosa, she seemed distracted and upset already. The annoying Uu-ing only contributed to the esalation of her annoyance. She is not a bad parent. Not even close.
__________________
Eat and sleep! And Solace. Sig by RRW.
Space Brothers Executive member of the ASS. Ready to flee at the first sign of trouble.
monir is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 22:23   Link #299
chronotrig
Senior Member
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Buffer overflow
Quote:
Originally Posted by monir View Post
lol.. my parents are old fashioned too. They have my thanks for actively contributing to this healthy butt.

In regards to Rosa, she seemed distracted and upset already. The annoying Uu-ing only contributed to the esalation of her annoyance. She is not a bad parent. Not even close.
I'll agree that there are parents who are much worse than the Rosa you've seen so far.
Still, hitting your daughter because you're annoyed doesn't show up in any parenting books I've seen.
__________________
"The only moral it is possible to draw from this story is that one should never throw the letter 'q' into a privet bush. But, unfortunately, there are times when it is unavoidable."
--Hitchhikers


www.witch-hunt.com Theory page
chronotrig is offline  
Old 2009-07-03, 22:28   Link #300
Deathkillz
~ You're dead ^__^* ~
*Graphic Designer
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: uk, England
Age: 24
Send a message via MSN to Deathkillz
Quote:
Originally Posted by Proto View Post
A slap? Child abuse? Geez, kids these days are sissies I tell you, next thing you know parents won't be able to give a good spank to their kids any longer. Granted, I'm with you that Rosa wasn't exactly the best possible way to deal with the situation given that they were entering a vicious cycle, but there are situations when a good spanking is one o the few available solutions. (or for example, how do you explain your 3 year old kid that playing with the the gas stove isn't the best possible idea?)
HAHA...completely agree (especially the first part). Getting a proper spanking at times is the only way a healthy kid can grow up but that is only if they learn a lesson from it or are even explained why they are spanked. Child abuse is always a term human rights people do to piss parents off who are trying to teach their kids. However, this doesn't mean that there aren't people out there who do abuse their kids. Rosa's display of anger here gave me more of an impression that she was beating Maria out of frustration and stress rather than honestly disciplining her daughter. She clearly crossed the line.
__________________

Siggy: hohohohoho~ | AnimeHistory welcome to our blog ~ | Summer2009 early review
Under the radar series Summer2009: Kanamemo, GA Geijutsuka Art, NEEDLESS
Deathkillz is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 17:41.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
We use Silk.